Can Any Rightwinger Give Me A Solid Argument Why Private Industry Instead Of Government Should Run..

[boedicca]

All the empirical evidence shows if you cannot make sure of Fair competition, a few large wealthy corporations rule.
With the advent of citizens united etc, money trumps, unless there are guidelines.

[/QUOTE]

You poor misguided little booby.

Citizens United ensures that there will be more competition in electoral races. That's why Harry Reid is trying to undo it with a bill that will gut the 1st Amendment. Statist incumbents hate Citizens United because it threatens incumbent control.

 

[Rikurzhen]

All the empirical evidence shows if you cannot make sure of Fair competition, a few large wealthy corporations rule.
With the advent of citizens united etc, money trumps, unless there are guidelines.

You poor misguided little booby.

Citizens United ensures that there will be more competition in electoral races. That's why Harry Reid is trying to undo it with a bill that will gut the 1st Amendment. Statist incumbents hate Citizens United because it threatens incumbent control.

I don't recall liberals ever raising a huff about teachers unions, public service unions, teamsters, the AFL-CIO donating to political campaigns and affecting speech, do you? I wonder why taht corporate speech doesn't bother liberals?

 

[The Rabbi]

I dont know who "you people" is. I guess its people who are well informed. That would cut you out. You dont have a fucking clue and get pwned so bad in your own threads you bail.

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

LOL!
The military is one of the most inefficient organizations out there. A land of $200 toilet seats and 150 wrenches. We have an excellent military because we have the resources (or had before Obama anyway) to throw money at the problem.
The IRS? Same folks who lost Lois Lerner's emails and have stonewalled the investigation? FBI? CIA? The FBI crime lab came in for heavy criticism for incompetence. ANd anyone who points to the CIA as an efficient capable orgnization is dreaming. Putin told us about the Boston Marathon bomber and we fumbled.
No, Billy. You are totally not serious. Every point you make shows how ignorant you truly are.

 

[Billy000]

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

LOL!
The military is one of the most inefficient organizations out there. A land of $200 toilet seats and 150 wrenches. We have an excellent military because we have the resources (or had before Obama anyway) to throw money at the problem.
The IRS? Same folks who lost Lois Lerner's emails and have stonewalled the investigation? FBI? CIA? The FBI crime lab came in for heavy criticism for incompetence. ANd anyone who points to the CIA as an efficient capable orgnization is dreaming. Putin told us about the Boston Marathon bomber and we fumbled.
No, Billy. You are totally not serious. Every point you make shows how ignorant you truly are.

Oh so an institution must be perfect in order to be sufficient? That's idiotic. I guess that means we should abolish capitialism because businesses fail.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I dont know who "you people" is. I guess its people who are well informed. That would cut you out. You dont have a fucking clue and get pwned so bad in your own threads you bail.

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

 

[Billy000]

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

 

[Billy000]

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

 

[The Rabbi]

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

LOL!
The military is one of the most inefficient organizations out there. A land of $200 toilet seats and 150 wrenches. We have an excellent military because we have the resources (or had before Obama anyway) to throw money at the problem.
The IRS? Same folks who lost Lois Lerner's emails and have stonewalled the investigation? FBI? CIA? The FBI crime lab came in for heavy criticism for incompetence. ANd anyone who points to the CIA as an efficient capable orgnization is dreaming. Putin told us about the Boston Marathon bomber and we fumbled.
No, Billy. You are totally not serious. Every point you make shows how ignorant you truly are.

Oh so an institution must be perfect in order to be sufficient? That's idiotic. I guess that means we should abolish capitialism because businesses fail.

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy! Rabbi Rules!
The standard was not perfect. The standard was efficient. And you have failed to name an efficient agency of the government. Which is why government should not run healthcare.

 

[The Rabbi]

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Again, you move the goalposts from "efficient" to "perfect" to mask your failure. Plenty of companies are efficient. They have incentive to be because they would go out of business otherwise.
What is government's incentive to be efficient?

 

[Mathbud1]

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Doesn't have to be perfect. Just has to do the job better than socialism.

 

[Jarhead]

This is why Democrats really need to leave economics to grown ups. Yes, it is the job of CEOs to satisfy their bosses, the owners of the company, the shareholders. They work for them.

Now here's the key question, Skippy, who do the CEOs have to satisfy to make money for the shareholders? LOL, you thought you found a conflict, you found complete synergy. You grasp capitalism not at all. Capitalism is everyone wins because everyone's interests are aligned. Marxism is where politicians win.

And why again is it exactly you object to the term "Marxist," Comrade?

You people know nothing about economics. You just listen to what republicans tell you. You people believe in trickle down economics which is one of the biggest political lies of all time.

I dont know who "you people" is. I guess its people who are well informed. That would cut you out. You dont have a fucking clue and get pwned so bad in your own threads you bail.

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

Is it that you can't read, don't want to read or have poor reading comprehension skills?

I did not say "the Obama care web site didn't work"

What I said was that the ACA website (government contracted) that is designed to cater to 300 million people in one country cost 600 million dollars while the Amazon website (privately contracted) that is designed to cater to billions of people over 7 continents cost a fraction of that.

That is a clear example of how the US government is by no means cost efficient.

I then asked you to look into the history of the US government and the iron business....when back in the 30's they decided it would be more cost effective to produce its own iron for military vehicles than to purchase it from private industry. When all was said and done, they found it cost over twice as much to produce it on their own than to purchase it from private industry.

Again, a clear example of how government is not nearly as cost efficient as private industry.

I then pointed out how the USPS overnight delivery has been operating at a loss since its inception while Fed Ex and UPS turn a profit on a yearly basis.

And your response to those examples were

1) Not true
2) Apples to oranges
3) not applicable...

and now...

4) Anecdotal.

But still wont back it up.

In other words....you don't want us to answer your original question of this thread...for when we do you simply cast it off as a non answer.

 

[mudwhistle]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

I bet they do.

Socialized medicine only increase costs. If the government is paying for it then money is no object. First they open the spicket, then they cut back on services and for some reason taxes never seem to decrease. Government officials work out deals with Big-pharmaceutical companies and collect graft on the side and the rich get richer while our healthcare goes in the toilet.

 

[Jarhead]

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Huh?

Who is talking about perfect. Your question was to show how private industry can do a better job than government.

And we have shown numerous examples.

And yet you cant show one example of where government has run something better than private industry.

So now you move the goalposts...and make it ONLY about the imperfections of private industry...and not interested in the greater imperfections of government run.

That is childish.

Debate like an adult.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

so, give us some examples of government ran programs that lead you to believe that they CAN run healthcare effectively.

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Is the title of this thread "is any private institution perfect?"

Why change the topic?

 

[The Rabbi]

You people know nothing about economics. You just listen to what republicans tell you. You people believe in trickle down economics which is one of the biggest political lies of all time.

I dont know who "you people" is. I guess its people who are well informed. That would cut you out. You dont have a fucking clue and get pwned so bad in your own threads you bail.

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

Is it that you can't read, don't want to read or have poor reading comprehension skills?

I did not say "the Obama care web site didn't work"

What I said was that the ACA website (government contracted) that is designed to cater to 300 million people in one country cost 600 million dollars while the Amazon website (privately contracted) that is designed to cater to billions of people over 7 continents cost a fraction of that.

r.

See, Billy is a stupid troll. What you wrote about the web site and what he wrote paraphrasing you to him seem like exactly the same thing. That's it about stupid people: two things that seem similar are actually identical.
When cornered Billy changes the direction, moves the goalposts or distracts to something else. So when pushed on which gov't agency is efficiency, he responds by asking which private company is perfect. It is a non sequitur. But to him it makes perfect sense.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Is the title of this thread "is any private institution perfect?"

Why change the topic?

Becayse he cant win teh debate by sticking to the original topic.

 

[Billy000]

You people know nothing about economics. You just listen to what republicans tell you. You people believe in trickle down economics which is one of the biggest political lies of all time.

I dont know who "you people" is. I guess its people who are well informed. That would cut you out. You dont have a fucking clue and get pwned so bad in your own threads you bail.

"Pwned" by who exactly? I've countered every point that was more than 2-3 sentences

That's an outright lie.

I gave you very solid arguments to your premise early on in this thread....and the only responses you would offer were

1) That's not true
2) That's not applicable
3) That's apples to oranges

But you never backed up your refutes.

So now you are not only closed minded....but you are a liar as well

Christ all you did was give anecdotal cases that were barely relevant to the conversation. You can't say shit like "well the ObamaCare website didn't work" and expect me to believe gov can't run our healthcare system. That's idiotic. You can't expect me to argue that.

Is it that you can't read, don't want to read or have poor reading comprehension skills?

I did not say "the Obama care web site didn't work"

What I said was that the ACA website (government contracted) that is designed to cater to 300 million people in one country cost 600 million dollars while the Amazon website (privately contracted) that is designed to cater to billions of people over 7 continents cost a fraction of that.

That is a clear example of how the US government is by no means cost efficient.

I then asked you to look into the history of the US government and the iron business....when back in the 30's they decided it would be more cost effective to produce its own iron for military vehicles than to purchase it from private industry. When all was said and done, they found it cost over twice as much to produce it on their own than to purchase it from private industry.

Again, a clear example of how government is not nearly as cost efficient as private industry.

I then pointed out how the USPS overnight delivery has been operating at a loss since its inception while Fed Ex and UPS turn a profit on a yearly basis.

And your response to those examples were

1) Not true
2) Apples to oranges
3) not applicable...

and now...

4) Anecdotal.

But still wont back it up.

In other words....you don't want us to answer your original question of this thread...for when we do you simply cast it off as a non answer.

Except that there are plenty of examples of government running efficiently. Our military, CIA, and FBI have all run great since their inception. Perfectly? No. Nothing runs perfectly.

 

[Billy000]

Hmm how about our military? We have a state of the art military. The IRS? The FBI? CIA?

Son, are you serious?

The Us Armed Forces are many things, efficient isn't one of them.

We have a state of the art military, yes indeed. But the same military could be had for 1/3 less money.

I ran the MP units on several bases, roughly the equivalent of being a city police chief, and let let me tell you , money is wasted in ways that NO private company would tolerate. That no private company COULD tolerate.

Yes and reforms can be made. The same way reforms could be made if socialized medicine was implemented. Nothing is perfect. That's never been a standard.

The US Army, has been inefficient for at least 80 years. what reform do you think is going to happen BIlly?

It's the nature of government agencies, it's oh so easy to say "well it's not my money so go ahead and buy that thousand dollar desk that no one is even going to sit at" just as an example.

I was transferred to one base . When I got there they had 14 MPs , pretty small base. but they had well over 100 M4s. Just as one example. I mean come on.

So do you think any private institution in this country is perfect?

Is the title of this thread "is any private institution perfect?"

Why change the topic?

How are you not getting this? Because both private and government institutions are not perfect, it's idiotic to assume private industry is better.

 

[The Rabbi]

Except that there are plenty of examples of government running efficiently. Our military, CIA, and FBI have all fun great since their inception. Perfectly? No. Nothing runs perfectly.

Mere assertion fallacy! Rabbi Rules!

No, Billy. None of those things run efficiently. There are plenty of people here who actually worked in some of those departments and they'll be the first to tell you they are inefficient. Nothing runs perfectly is true but irrelevant. Our standard is not perfect but efficient. Focus on the debate.