Can anyone tell me what the main problem Obamacare (AHCAA)

[Bombur]

But there was first a total falsehood. Ignorance in claiming 46 million "uninsured"!
Maybe ACA would have passed if the actual count of people that WANTED and NEEDED health insurance WAS 4 million!

But it took this falsehood to make the 2,000 page "we have to pass it to know what's in it!" mess.

The individual market for health insurance has seen premiums rise by 39 percent since February 2013, eHealth reports.
Without a subsidy, the average individual premium is now $274 a month. Families have been hit even harder with an average increase of 56 percent over the same period
— average premiums are now $663 per family, over $426 last year.

Read more: Premiums rising faster than eight years before Obamacare | The Daily Caller

So who pays the "subsidy"???

I have already pointed out twice that your own link says there are 7.5 million children without insurance.

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

AND they are covered under SCHIP!
The 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) identified 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured
in 2003. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association contracted with the Actuarial Research
Corporation (ARC) to provide a detailed analysis of the uninsured identified by the Census
Bureau, which found:
■ Nearly one-third were reachable through public programs, such as Medicaid and the SCHIP program for children
■ The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year, but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey. page 4 of above PDF.
■ Among uninsured individuals eligible for public programs, but not enrolled during the year: 89 percent were in working families, 41 percent were children under the age of 18
who could be enrolled in Medicaid and/or SCHIP, and 44 percent were Hispanic.

Of course SOME of them were eligible already. We already went over this.

That doesn't turn 7.5 million uninsured children(from your link) into 4 million uninsured people total.

The biggest change is the mandate which isn't about the 46 million but those with pre-existing conditions. Already went over this as well. The mandate will also push more people to the market place where they will be able to see if they are eligible for the aid they were already eligible for.

 

[healthmyths]

Everyones really tired of your shit Health. We get it. Obama said one thing and you dont understand the numbers or how it can be true. Doesnt mean you have to pigeon hole yourself into making this a topic 5 times a week

But YOU still believe there are 46 million as do millions of other people including conservatives!

THERE NEVER WERE as I've pointed out!

GEEZ you guys are like all those dummies standing around trying to figure out how to get a semi stuck under an overpass when a little kid says let some air out"!

The concept of 4 million truly uninsured that wanted and Needed is what should have been addressed NOT this grandiose take over of 1/6th the economy!

Single payer will never work unless we are a socialist country which means we give up ALL our freedoms and ACA is just the next step.

If people like you can't even admit there were never 46 million..geez 10 million are illegals.. 14 million never knew they were eligible and 18 million don't want!
SO why destroy our health system for 4 million???

 

[Bombur]

Single payer will never work unless we are a socialist country which means we give up ALL our freedoms and ACA is just the next step.

 

[healthmyths]

I have already pointed out twice that your own link says there are 7.5 million children without insurance.

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

AND they are covered under SCHIP!
The 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) identified 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured
in 2003. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association contracted with the Actuarial Research
Corporation (ARC) to provide a detailed analysis of the uninsured identified by the Census
Bureau, which found:
■ Nearly one-third were reachable through public programs, such as Medicaid and the SCHIP program for children
■ The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year, but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey. page 4 of above PDF.
■ Among uninsured individuals eligible for public programs, but not enrolled during the year: 89 percent were in working families, 41 percent were children under the age of 18
who could be enrolled in Medicaid and/or SCHIP, and 44 percent were Hispanic.

Of course SOME of them were eligible already. We already went over this.

That doesn't turn 7.5 million uninsured children(from your link) into 4 million uninsured people total.

The biggest change is the mandate which isn't about the 46 million but those with pre-existing conditions. Already went over this as well. The mandate will also push more people to the market place where they will be able to see if they are eligible for the aid they were already eligible for.

THAT's the POINT! idiot!
If they were already eligible under MEDICAID BEFORE ACA why destroy ALL our health care financing system?
46 million didn't have Pre -existing conditions!

10 million are not citizens... DO YOU GET IT?? Even Obama NOW states there are 30 million because illegals aren't covered by ACA... SO why in the f..k did he count them as part of the 46 million?
14 million were covered under Medicaid!!!! Obama still counted them even though HIS EXISTING CMS responsible for MEDICAID couldn't get them enrolled??? What...f...k. inefficient group is CMS if they can't get those people enrolled again with out destroying current system? THIS WAS A FAILURE of his administration to get these 14 million covered!
Finally how f...king unfair to count 18 million people THAT DON"T WANT or NEED health insurance? Who in the hell does the govt. think they are forcing people to buy something they don't want or need??? WHERE IS OUR FREEDOM of choice??
BUT Obama counted these 18 million as if they WANTED insurance! THEY DIDN"T yet he and millions of you idiots keeping counting them!

It didn't take a destruction of 1/6th the economy to get 4 million truly uninsured that wanted insurance!

 

[Bombur]

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

AND they are covered under SCHIP!
The 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) identified 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured
in 2003. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association contracted with the Actuarial Research
Corporation (ARC) to provide a detailed analysis of the uninsured identified by the Census
Bureau, which found:
■ Nearly one-third were reachable through public programs, such as Medicaid and the SCHIP program for children
■ The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year, but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey. page 4 of above PDF.
■ Among uninsured individuals eligible for public programs, but not enrolled during the year: 89 percent were in working families, 41 percent were children under the age of 18
who could be enrolled in Medicaid and/or SCHIP, and 44 percent were Hispanic.

Of course SOME of them were eligible already. We already went over this.

That doesn't turn 7.5 million uninsured children(from your link) into 4 million uninsured people total.

The biggest change is the mandate which isn't about the 46 million but those with pre-existing conditions. Already went over this as well. The mandate will also push more people to the market place where they will be able to see if they are eligible for the aid they were already eligible for.

THAT's the POINT! idiot!
If they were already eligible under MEDICAID BEFORE ACA why destroy ALL our health care financing system?
46 million didn't have Pre -existing conditions!

10 million are not citizens... DO YOU GET IT?? Even Obama NOW states there are 30 million because illegals aren't covered by ACA... SO why in the f..k did he count them as part of the 46 million?
14 million were covered under Medicaid!!!! Obama still counted them even though HIS EXISTING CMS responsible for MEDICAID couldn't get them enrolled??? What...f...k. inefficient group is CMS if they can't get those people enrolled again with out destroying current system? THIS WAS A FAILURE of his administration to get these 14 million covered!
Finally how f...king unfair to count 18 million people THAT DON"T WANT or NEED health insurance? Who in the hell does the govt. think they are forcing people to buy something they don't want or need??? WHERE IS OUR FREEDOM of choice??
BUT Obama counted these 18 million as if they WANTED insurance! THEY DIDN"T yet he and millions of you idiots keeping counting them!

It didn't take a destruction of 1/6th the economy to get 4 million truly uninsured that wanted insurance!

I already addressed most of your points and you are just ignoring what I said. Ohh well.

Your own data show that people do stupid crap like not take free health insurance for their children. I don't think the way you reduced the number down to 4 million is as sound as you think it is.

 

[healthmyths]

Of course SOME of them were eligible already. We already went over this.

That doesn't turn 7.5 million uninsured children(from your link) into 4 million uninsured people total.

The biggest change is the mandate which isn't about the 46 million but those with pre-existing conditions. Already went over this as well. The mandate will also push more people to the market place where they will be able to see if they are eligible for the aid they were already eligible for.

THAT's the POINT! idiot!
If they were already eligible under MEDICAID BEFORE ACA why destroy ALL our health care financing system?
46 million didn't have Pre -existing conditions!

10 million are not citizens... DO YOU GET IT?? Even Obama NOW states there are 30 million because illegals aren't covered by ACA... SO why in the f..k did he count them as part of the 46 million?
14 million were covered under Medicaid!!!! Obama still counted them even though HIS EXISTING CMS responsible for MEDICAID couldn't get them enrolled??? What...f...k. inefficient group is CMS if they can't get those people enrolled again with out destroying current system? THIS WAS A FAILURE of his administration to get these 14 million covered!
Finally how f...king unfair to count 18 million people THAT DON"T WANT or NEED health insurance? Who in the hell does the govt. think they are forcing people to buy something they don't want or need??? WHERE IS OUR FREEDOM of choice??
BUT Obama counted these 18 million as if they WANTED insurance! THEY DIDN"T yet he and millions of you idiots keeping counting them!

It didn't take a destruction of 1/6th the economy to get 4 million truly uninsured that wanted insurance!

I already addressed most of your points and you are just ignoring what I said. Ohh well.

Your own data show that people do stupid crap like not take free health insurance for their children. I don't think the way you reduced the number down to 4 million is as sound as you think it is.

YOU DON"T THINK???

A) The Census (did you follow the link???) 10 million of 46 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS! So why should they be counted?
B) The CENSUS admits their failure in NOT recognizing 14 million that all need to do is register with Medicaid! Where is that a problem?
C) BUT I think you find a problem with 18 million people who are counted as uninsured?
Why should people be who can afford they make over $50,000 that spend less then $1,000 per year on health services as they are under 34 be forced to buy something they don't need?
Finally they can join their employers' health plans... but they don't need to spend the additional money above their $1,000 they spend per person per year!

Why then in simple math can't you subtract 42 million from the 46 million and surprise 4 million that REALLY want and really need!

These 4 million could have been covered so easily with $27 billion a year in tax revenue from tax 10% of the lawyers $270 billion a year in fees!
Since fear of lawsuits according the people that ACTUALLY send the claims to insurance/Medicare called "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE practices" $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.

How complicated is this to understand? ACA taxes tanning salons since tanning causes cancer, why not tax lawyers as they cause the fear of lawsuits that cause the defensive medicine!

 

[Bombur]

THAT's the POINT! idiot!
If they were already eligible under MEDICAID BEFORE ACA why destroy ALL our health care financing system?
46 million didn't have Pre -existing conditions!

10 million are not citizens... DO YOU GET IT?? Even Obama NOW states there are 30 million because illegals aren't covered by ACA... SO why in the f..k did he count them as part of the 46 million?
14 million were covered under Medicaid!!!! Obama still counted them even though HIS EXISTING CMS responsible for MEDICAID couldn't get them enrolled??? What...f...k. inefficient group is CMS if they can't get those people enrolled again with out destroying current system? THIS WAS A FAILURE of his administration to get these 14 million covered!
Finally how f...king unfair to count 18 million people THAT DON"T WANT or NEED health insurance? Who in the hell does the govt. think they are forcing people to buy something they don't want or need??? WHERE IS OUR FREEDOM of choice??
BUT Obama counted these 18 million as if they WANTED insurance! THEY DIDN"T yet he and millions of you idiots keeping counting them!

It didn't take a destruction of 1/6th the economy to get 4 million truly uninsured that wanted insurance!

I already addressed most of your points and you are just ignoring what I said. Ohh well.

Your own data show that people do stupid crap like not take free health insurance for their children. I don't think the way you reduced the number down to 4 million is as sound as you think it is.

YOU DON"T THINK???

A) The Census (did you follow the link???) 10 million of 46 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS! So why should they be counted?
B) The CENSUS admits their failure in NOT recognizing 14 million that all need to do is register with Medicaid! Where is that a problem?
C) BUT I think you find a problem with 18 million people who are counted as uninsured?
Why should people be who can afford they make over $50,000 that spend less then $1,000 per year on health services as they are under 34 be forced to buy something they don't need?
Finally they can join their employers' health plans... but they don't need to spend the additional money above their $1,000 they spend per person per year!

Why then in simple math can't you subtract 42 million from the 46 million and surprise 4 million that REALLY want and really need!

These 4 million could have been covered so easily with $27 billion a year in tax revenue from tax 10% of the lawyers $270 billion a year in fees!
Since fear of lawsuits according the people that ACTUALLY send the claims to insurance/Medicare called "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE practices" $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.

How complicated is this to understand? ACA taxes tanning salons since tanning causes cancer, why not tax lawyers as they cause the fear of lawsuits that cause the defensive medicine!

You still didn't address anything I said. Now you are complaining about lawyers.

I already explained why there is a mandate. You ignored me. Congratulations I guess.

 

[healthmyths]

I already addressed most of your points and you are just ignoring what I said. Ohh well.

Your own data show that people do stupid crap like not take free health insurance for their children. I don't think the way you reduced the number down to 4 million is as sound as you think it is.

YOU DON"T THINK???

A) The Census (did you follow the link???) 10 million of 46 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS! So why should they be counted?
B) The CENSUS admits their failure in NOT recognizing 14 million that all need to do is register with Medicaid! Where is that a problem?
C) BUT I think you find a problem with 18 million people who are counted as uninsured?
Why should people be who can afford they make over $50,000 that spend less then $1,000 per year on health services as they are under 34 be forced to buy something they don't need?
Finally they can join their employers' health plans... but they don't need to spend the additional money above their $1,000 they spend per person per year!

Why then in simple math can't you subtract 42 million from the 46 million and surprise 4 million that REALLY want and really need!

These 4 million could have been covered so easily with $27 billion a year in tax revenue from tax 10% of the lawyers $270 billion a year in fees!
Since fear of lawsuits according the people that ACTUALLY send the claims to insurance/Medicare called "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE practices" $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.

How complicated is this to understand? ACA taxes tanning salons since tanning causes cancer, why not tax lawyers as they cause the fear of lawsuits that cause the defensive medicine!

You still didn't address anything I said. Now you are complaining about lawyers.

I already explained why there is a mandate. You ignored me. Congratulations I guess.

The "MANDATE" has NOTHING to do with the MATH!
Again... why is this so difficult?? Is there really that gigantic chasm between reality and fantasy?
10 million people are NOT CITIZENS but were counted by the Census in their 46 million figure... NOW even Obama doesn't count them so why do you?
14 million people are counted as uninsured YET before ACA all these 14 million needed do is register... AGAIN 14 million already covered! So why count them?
18 million don't want. Don't need.. BUT THE ONLY purpose to use them was INFLATE the number...
42 million are NOT uninsured ... 4 million WHERE IS THE COMPLICATION in understanding this simple math?

 

[Bombur]

YOU DON"T THINK???

A) The Census (did you follow the link???) 10 million of 46 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS! So why should they be counted?
B) The CENSUS admits their failure in NOT recognizing 14 million that all need to do is register with Medicaid! Where is that a problem?
C) BUT I think you find a problem with 18 million people who are counted as uninsured?
Why should people be who can afford they make over $50,000 that spend less then $1,000 per year on health services as they are under 34 be forced to buy something they don't need?
Finally they can join their employers' health plans... but they don't need to spend the additional money above their $1,000 they spend per person per year!

Why then in simple math can't you subtract 42 million from the 46 million and surprise 4 million that REALLY want and really need!

These 4 million could have been covered so easily with $27 billion a year in tax revenue from tax 10% of the lawyers $270 billion a year in fees!
Since fear of lawsuits according the people that ACTUALLY send the claims to insurance/Medicare called "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE practices" $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.

How complicated is this to understand? ACA taxes tanning salons since tanning causes cancer, why not tax lawyers as they cause the fear of lawsuits that cause the defensive medicine!

You still didn't address anything I said. Now you are complaining about lawyers.

I already explained why there is a mandate. You ignored me. Congratulations I guess.

The "MANDATE" has NOTHING to do with the MATH!
Again... why is this so difficult?? Is there really that gigantic chasm between reality and fantasy?
10 million people are NOT CITIZENS but were counted by the Census in their 46 million figure... NOW even Obama doesn't count them so why do you?
14 million people are counted as uninsured YET before ACA all these 14 million needed do is register... AGAIN 14 million already covered! So why count them?
18 million don't want. Don't need.. BUT THE ONLY purpose to use them was INFLATE the number...
42 million are NOT uninsured ... 4 million WHERE IS THE COMPLICATION in understanding this simple math?

The mandate has everything to do with the magnitude of the overhaul.

Even by your math the people are still uninsured.

In the real world the number is still way too big no matter the reason why the people are uninsured. Your blanket statement about the 18 million not wanting or needing insurance is stupid. Most people don't need insurance after the fact. That is how it works. The real need for insurance is established before their actual health care needs are determined. Not after.

There is a health impact to not having insurance for these people. No matter how many there are or why they are without it.

 

[healthmyths]

I have already pointed out twice that your own link says there are 7.5 million children without insurance.

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

AND they are covered under SCHIP!
The 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) identified 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured
in 2003. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association contracted with the Actuarial Research
Corporation (ARC) to provide a detailed analysis of the uninsured identified by the Census
Bureau, which found:
■ Nearly one-third were reachable through public programs, such as Medicaid and the SCHIP program for children
■ The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year, but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey. page 4 of above PDF.
■ Among uninsured individuals eligible for public programs, but not enrolled during the year: 89 percent were in working families, 41 percent were children under the age of 18
who could be enrolled in Medicaid and/or SCHIP, and 44 percent were Hispanic.

Of course SOME of them were eligible already. We already went over this.

That doesn't turn 7.5 million uninsured children(from your link) into 4 million uninsured people total.

The biggest change is the mandate which isn't about the 46 million but those with pre-existing conditions. Already went over this as well. The mandate will also push more people to the market place where they will be able to see if they are eligible for the aid they were already eligible for.

HEY! Wake up fantasy dweller!
I never SAID 7.5 million uninsured children became 4 million did I???
NO... I said 10 million are NOT citizens YET were counted as part of the 46 million subtract 10 from 46 you get 36 million I know that is simple but that is a FACT!
I said 14 million per the links (including kids..) are counted as uninsured...YET all that is needed is REGISTER them even before ACA.. take 14 from 36 equals 22 million...FACT!
Now you totally ignored 18 million people under 34 making over $50K that don't WANT or NEED health insurance. So why are you forcing THEM to buy when after
you subtract 18 million you get 4 million that truly need health insurance!
NOT 46 million!
DO YOU finally get the reality that ACA was SOLD on the FALSE Premise of 46 million when in reality less then 4 million!

NoW my point about lawyers is simple! They cause the $850 billion in COSTS that cause insurance premiums to increase!
AGain I don't know how much more simple it is but when doctors tell us they do duplicate testing that costs $850 billion a year all out of fear of lawsuits why can't you believe them?
And if lawsuits are triggered by lawyers what is the difference between tanning salons that cause cancer and lawyers that cause $850 billion in wasted claims?
So tax the lawyers and use that to pay the premiums for the 4 million that need insurance!
SIMPLE. EASY. DONE!
NOW please tell me that the numbers don't add up! I want to see your math!!!

 

[healthmyths]

was to have solved?

Affordable Health Care for America Act is the name but when you read this story where does "Affordable" come in??

Obamacare leaves Las Vegas man owing $407,000 in doctor bills
Obamacare leaves Las Vegas man owing $407,000 in doctor bills | Las Vegas Review-Journal

To provide affordable coverage for 48 million people who either did not have coverage or did not have adequate coverage.

There never were 48 million uninsured people.
Why do you and the Census count 10 million illegal citizens as part of the "uninsured"?
Why do you and the Census count 14 million people that all they needed to do was register with Medicaid.. they were insured.
Why do you and all those people saying 48 million count 18 million that don't need (under 34) CAN afford (make over $50k) spend less then it cost to have employers' plans.
That adds up to 42 million of your 48 million that are either illegal, uninformed OR DON'T want to be insured people NOT 48 million.