Can Atheists be Moral?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The question is, morality based upon what?

Humanism.

 

[Votto]

The question is, morality based upon what?

Humanism.

What is the morality of Humanism?

 

[Hollie]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

 

[Votto]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

So you would say that morality is based upon your own perceived view of what is best for your survival?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What is the morality of Humanism?

I am not saying it has it's own morality. I am saying morality is derived from a few accepted truths about the well being of humans.

You didn't derive your morality from your religion. Your morality is chiefly due to the genetic accident of where and when you were born. So you might just take a lomemnt to look at how your own morals were derived and answer your own questions.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

So you would say that morality is based upon your own perceived view of what is best for your survival?

No, I would say "Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species".

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If anyone thinks otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there are no gods. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me, kill me?

If you answer no, then gods aren't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt (not you personally, the greater “you”), and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

Morality is both transitory and fully natural in its source. Take gods away tomorrow and humans would behave pretty much like they do with gods in place. We are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation and it serves us pretty well. Most people do behave morally.

 

[Votto]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

So you would say that morality is based upon your own perceived view of what is best for your survival?

No, I would say "Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species".

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If anyone thinks otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there are no gods. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me, kill me?

If you answer no, then gods aren't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt (not you personally, the greater “you”), and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

Morality is both transitory and fully natural in its source. Take gods away tomorrow and humans would behave pretty much like they do with gods in place. We are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation and it serves us pretty well. Most people do behave morally.

You do realize that people who claim that there is a God historically have also been murderous, right?

For example, there is an element within Islam that thinks that murdering infidels is God's will.

So your argument is a strawman, just because you believe in a God does not mean it discourages you from committing murder or even genocide.

In fact, convincing people that God wants them to kill is one of the most effective ways to motivate people to kill.

In history, we see men try to convince others that they were a god in order to serve them and kill for them, but when that no longer worked, they convinced people that they spoke for God, but when that no longer worked, the tried to convince people that there was no God, thus making themselves a god to the people. Interestingly, these types of regimes, mostly communist, have murdered the most people.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

So you would say that morality is based upon your own perceived view of what is best for your survival?

No, I would say "Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species".

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If anyone thinks otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there are no gods. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me, kill me?

If you answer no, then gods aren't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt (not you personally, the greater “you”), and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

Morality is both transitory and fully natural in its source. Take gods away tomorrow and humans would behave pretty much like they do with gods in place. We are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation and it serves us pretty well. Most people do behave morally.

You do realize that people who claim that there is a God historically have also been murderous, right?

For example, there is an element within Islam that thinks that murdering infidels is God's will.

So your argument is a strawman, just because you believe in a God does not mean it discourages you from committing murder or even genocide.

In fact, convincing people that God wants them to kill is one of the most effective ways to motivate people to kill.

In history, we see men try to convince others that they were a god in order to serve them and kill for them, but when that no longer worked, they convinced people that they spoke for God, but when that no longer worked, the tried to convince people that there was no God, thus making themselves a god to the people. Interestingly, these types of regimes, mostly communist, have murdered the most people.

We are largely in agreement. We disagree that I believe in god(s).

 

[ding]

The question is, morality based upon what?

Humanism.

No. Morals are effectively standards. They exist independent of man. Moral behavior, like truth, is discovered. There is no letter of the law standard. That is called legalism or legal positivism.

 

[Crepitus]

It's easier to justify ending their lives when you dehumanize them, right?

The air-bubblebrain has no clue he's been sanctioning and funding baby murder all his life all the while claiming no one in pictures of hundreds of people he's never met and doesn't even know who they are can't possible have ever killed a baby. Just another leftard goon with zero credibility in anything he ever claims.

Back up, wipe the spittle off the monitor, and try again.

I've nothing to try. Women FIGHT for the right to abort their babies, they FIGHT to protect and defend Planned Parenthood as their goto place for an abortion. Planned Parenthood is an undeniable unquestioned center for "woman's rights" to kill fetuses and you said NOT ONE PERSON in my photos has killed a baby, including Planned Parenthood.

Not only are you a terrible liar, but you are a clueless one as well. The air-pocket asswipe bombs once again, even if you don't have the integrity to even man up and admit it when you've hopelessly put your own foot in your mouth all the way up to the knee!

Ok, I'mma stop now, before you stroke out or something.

Don't want that on my conscience.

Have a nice day, check your blood pressure.

Another liberal ducks and runs because he's been caught with his pants around his ankles yet again. Even Snopes cannot support his bullshit:

• In the first video: Dr. Deborah Nucatola of Planned Parenthood commented on baby-crushing: “We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.”
• In the second video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Mary Gatter joked, “I want a Lamborghini” as she negotiated the best price for baby parts.
• In the third video: Holly O’Donnell, a former Stem Express employee who worked inside a Planned Parenthood clinic, detailed first-hand the unspeakable atrocities and how she fainted in horror over handling baby legs.
• In the fourth video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Savita Ginde stated, “We don’t want to do just a flat-fee (per baby) of like, $200. A per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.” She also laughed while looking at a plate of fetal kidneys that were “good to go.”
• In the fifth video: Melissa Farrell of Planned Parenthood-Gulf Coast in Houston boasted of Planned Parenthood’s skill in obtaining “intact fetal cadavers” and how her “research” department “contributes so much to the bottom line of our organization here, you know we’re one of the largest affiliates, our Research Department is the largest in the United States.”
• In the sixth video: Holly O’Donnell described technicians taking fetal parts without patient consent: “There were times when they would just take what they wanted. And these mothers don’t know. And there’s no way they would know.”
• In the seventh and perhaps most disturbing video: Holly O’Donnell described the harvesting, or “procurement,” of organs from a nearly intact late-term fetus aborted at Planned Parenthood Mar Monte’s Alameda clinic in San Jose, CA. “‘You want to see something kind of cool,’” O’Donnell says her supervisor asked her. “And she just taps the heart, and it starts beating. And I’m sitting here and I’m looking at this fetus, and its heart is beating, and I don’t know what to think.”
• In the eighth video: StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer admits Planned Parenthood sells “a lot of” fully intact aborted babies.
• The ninth video: catches a Planned Parenthood medical director discussing how the abortion company sells fully intact aborted babies — including one who “just fell out” of the womb.
• The 10th video: catches the nation’s biggest abortion business selling specific body parts — including the heart, eyes and “gonads” of unborn babies.The video also shows the shocking ways in which Planned Parenthood officials admit that they are breaking federal law by selling aborted baby body parts for profit.
• Unreleased Videos: Unreleased videos from CMP show Deb Vanderhei of Planned Parenthood caught on tape talking about how Planned Parenthood abortion business affiliates may “want to increase revenue [from selling baby parts] but we can’t stop them…” Another video has a woman talking about the “financial incentives” of selling aborted baby body parts.
• The 11th video: catches a Texas Planned Parenthood abortionist planning to sell the intact heads of aborted babies for research. Amna Dermish is caught on tape describing an illegal partial-birth abortion procedure to terminate living, late-term unborn babies which she hopes will yield intact fetal heads for brain harvesting.
• The 12th video in the series shows new footage of Jennefer Russo, medical director at Planned Parenthood in Orange County, California, describing to undercover investigators how her abortion business tries to harvest intact aborted babies’ bodies for a local for-profit biotech company and changes the abortion procedure to do so.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Creepitus goon actually worked at PP himself murdering fetuses.

I'm not "ducking and running" you twit, I stopped so you wouldn't hurt yourself.

 

[toobfreak]

The air-bubblebrain has no clue he's been sanctioning and funding baby murder all his life all the while claiming no one in pictures of hundreds of people he's never met and doesn't even know who they are can't possible have ever killed a baby. Just another leftard goon with zero credibility in anything he ever claims.

Back up, wipe the spittle off the monitor, and try again.

I've nothing to try. Women FIGHT for the right to abort their babies, they FIGHT to protect and defend Planned Parenthood as their goto place for an abortion. Planned Parenthood is an undeniable unquestioned center for "woman's rights" to kill fetuses and you said NOT ONE PERSON in my photos has killed a baby, including Planned Parenthood.

Not only are you a terrible liar, but you are a clueless one as well. The air-pocket asswipe bombs once again, even if you don't have the integrity to even man up and admit it when you've hopelessly put your own foot in your mouth all the way up to the knee!

Ok, I'mma stop now, before you stroke out or something.

Don't want that on my conscience.

Have a nice day, check your blood pressure.

Another liberal ducks and runs because he's been caught with his pants around his ankles yet again. Even Snopes cannot support his bullshit:

• In the first video: Dr. Deborah Nucatola of Planned Parenthood commented on baby-crushing: “We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.”
• In the second video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Mary Gatter joked, “I want a Lamborghini” as she negotiated the best price for baby parts.
• In the third video: Holly O’Donnell, a former Stem Express employee who worked inside a Planned Parenthood clinic, detailed first-hand the unspeakable atrocities and how she fainted in horror over handling baby legs.
• In the fourth video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Savita Ginde stated, “We don’t want to do just a flat-fee (per baby) of like, $200. A per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.” She also laughed while looking at a plate of fetal kidneys that were “good to go.”
• In the fifth video: Melissa Farrell of Planned Parenthood-Gulf Coast in Houston boasted of Planned Parenthood’s skill in obtaining “intact fetal cadavers” and how her “research” department “contributes so much to the bottom line of our organization here, you know we’re one of the largest affiliates, our Research Department is the largest in the United States.”
• In the sixth video: Holly O’Donnell described technicians taking fetal parts without patient consent: “There were times when they would just take what they wanted. And these mothers don’t know. And there’s no way they would know.”
• In the seventh and perhaps most disturbing video: Holly O’Donnell described the harvesting, or “procurement,” of organs from a nearly intact late-term fetus aborted at Planned Parenthood Mar Monte’s Alameda clinic in San Jose, CA. “‘You want to see something kind of cool,’” O’Donnell says her supervisor asked her. “And she just taps the heart, and it starts beating. And I’m sitting here and I’m looking at this fetus, and its heart is beating, and I don’t know what to think.”
• In the eighth video: StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer admits Planned Parenthood sells “a lot of” fully intact aborted babies.
• The ninth video: catches a Planned Parenthood medical director discussing how the abortion company sells fully intact aborted babies — including one who “just fell out” of the womb.
• The 10th video: catches the nation’s biggest abortion business selling specific body parts — including the heart, eyes and “gonads” of unborn babies.The video also shows the shocking ways in which Planned Parenthood officials admit that they are breaking federal law by selling aborted baby body parts for profit.
• Unreleased Videos: Unreleased videos from CMP show Deb Vanderhei of Planned Parenthood caught on tape talking about how Planned Parenthood abortion business affiliates may “want to increase revenue [from selling baby parts] but we can’t stop them…” Another video has a woman talking about the “financial incentives” of selling aborted baby body parts.
• The 11th video: catches a Texas Planned Parenthood abortionist planning to sell the intact heads of aborted babies for research. Amna Dermish is caught on tape describing an illegal partial-birth abortion procedure to terminate living, late-term unborn babies which she hopes will yield intact fetal heads for brain harvesting.
• The 12th video in the series shows new footage of Jennefer Russo, medical director at Planned Parenthood in Orange County, California, describing to undercover investigators how her abortion business tries to harvest intact aborted babies’ bodies for a local for-profit biotech company and changes the abortion procedure to do so.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Creepitus goon actually worked at PP himself murdering fetuses.

I'm not "ducking and running" you twit, I stopped so you wouldn't hurt yourself.

That's the greatest self-effacing BS claim I've yet heard here; 'I lost an argument out of concern for you!' Why, THANK YOU O kind sir for saving me, but from what? You can say anything you want but you cannot change the facts already laid out above.

 

[rightwinger]

Many theists believe it is clear-cut. Humans can only have opinions about morality, and no one’s opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s. This leads them to the conclusion that an objective source of morality must stand apart from, and above, humans. That source, they say, is God. Since atheists, reject God, atheists can have no basis for morality.

This is really two separate arguments: (1) that God is the source of objective morality and humans can learn morality from God and (2) that humans on their own have no way to know what is moral and what is not.

Can atheists be moral? - Atheist Alliance International

Atheists are moral because it is the right thing to do

Theists are moral because they fear God

 

[toobfreak]

Morals are effectively standards. They exist independent of man.

I'm not so sure, Ding. Who but man uses morals? Certainly horses don't. Dogs don't. Man judges morality. Morality may come from the heart, inspired by faith, driven or guided from within, but just as a tree falls in the woods, without mankind, of what need, use or value are morals? Morals are guidelines and goals set by MEN I think.

 

[Crepitus]

Back up, wipe the spittle off the monitor, and try again.

I've nothing to try. Women FIGHT for the right to abort their babies, they FIGHT to protect and defend Planned Parenthood as their goto place for an abortion. Planned Parenthood is an undeniable unquestioned center for "woman's rights" to kill fetuses and you said NOT ONE PERSON in my photos has killed a baby, including Planned Parenthood.

Not only are you a terrible liar, but you are a clueless one as well. The air-pocket asswipe bombs once again, even if you don't have the integrity to even man up and admit it when you've hopelessly put your own foot in your mouth all the way up to the knee!

Ok, I'mma stop now, before you stroke out or something.

Don't want that on my conscience.

Have a nice day, check your blood pressure.

Another liberal ducks and runs because he's been caught with his pants around his ankles yet again. Even Snopes cannot support his bullshit:

• In the first video: Dr. Deborah Nucatola of Planned Parenthood commented on baby-crushing: “We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.”
• In the second video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Mary Gatter joked, “I want a Lamborghini” as she negotiated the best price for baby parts.
• In the third video: Holly O’Donnell, a former Stem Express employee who worked inside a Planned Parenthood clinic, detailed first-hand the unspeakable atrocities and how she fainted in horror over handling baby legs.
• In the fourth video: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Savita Ginde stated, “We don’t want to do just a flat-fee (per baby) of like, $200. A per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.” She also laughed while looking at a plate of fetal kidneys that were “good to go.”
• In the fifth video: Melissa Farrell of Planned Parenthood-Gulf Coast in Houston boasted of Planned Parenthood’s skill in obtaining “intact fetal cadavers” and how her “research” department “contributes so much to the bottom line of our organization here, you know we’re one of the largest affiliates, our Research Department is the largest in the United States.”
• In the sixth video: Holly O’Donnell described technicians taking fetal parts without patient consent: “There were times when they would just take what they wanted. And these mothers don’t know. And there’s no way they would know.”
• In the seventh and perhaps most disturbing video: Holly O’Donnell described the harvesting, or “procurement,” of organs from a nearly intact late-term fetus aborted at Planned Parenthood Mar Monte’s Alameda clinic in San Jose, CA. “‘You want to see something kind of cool,’” O’Donnell says her supervisor asked her. “And she just taps the heart, and it starts beating. And I’m sitting here and I’m looking at this fetus, and its heart is beating, and I don’t know what to think.”
• In the eighth video: StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer admits Planned Parenthood sells “a lot of” fully intact aborted babies.
• The ninth video: catches a Planned Parenthood medical director discussing how the abortion company sells fully intact aborted babies — including one who “just fell out” of the womb.
• The 10th video: catches the nation’s biggest abortion business selling specific body parts — including the heart, eyes and “gonads” of unborn babies.The video also shows the shocking ways in which Planned Parenthood officials admit that they are breaking federal law by selling aborted baby body parts for profit.
• Unreleased Videos: Unreleased videos from CMP show Deb Vanderhei of Planned Parenthood caught on tape talking about how Planned Parenthood abortion business affiliates may “want to increase revenue [from selling baby parts] but we can’t stop them…” Another video has a woman talking about the “financial incentives” of selling aborted baby body parts.
• The 11th video: catches a Texas Planned Parenthood abortionist planning to sell the intact heads of aborted babies for research. Amna Dermish is caught on tape describing an illegal partial-birth abortion procedure to terminate living, late-term unborn babies which she hopes will yield intact fetal heads for brain harvesting.
• The 12th video in the series shows new footage of Jennefer Russo, medical director at Planned Parenthood in Orange County, California, describing to undercover investigators how her abortion business tries to harvest intact aborted babies’ bodies for a local for-profit biotech company and changes the abortion procedure to do so.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Creepitus goon actually worked at PP himself murdering fetuses.

I'm not "ducking and running" you twit, I stopped so you wouldn't hurt yourself.

That's the greatest self-effacing BS claim I've yet heard here; 'I lost an argument out of concern for you!' Why, THANK YOU O kind sir for saving me, but from what? You can say anything you want but you cannot change the facts already laid out above.

From what? From yourself.

I thought that was pretty clear.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Many theists believe it is clear-cut. Humans can only have opinions about morality, and no one’s opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s. This leads them to the conclusion that an objective source of morality must stand apart from, and above, humans. That source, they say, is God. Since atheists, reject God, atheists can have no basis for morality.

This is really two separate arguments: (1) that God is the source of objective morality and humans can learn morality from God and (2) that humans on their own have no way to know what is moral and what is not.

Can atheists be moral? - Atheist Alliance International

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what? Even being supposedly amoral is a type of morality in itself.

To then say that there is a universal morality would then bring into question why morality differs. At the same time, looking at the broad categories of morality we seem to be more alike than not. After all, what society says it is OK to murder and steal, etc.? But why then are they so similar if there is no universal morality?

My take is that we all have an innate sense of right and wrong based upon a universal morality, and that universal morality is the golden rule Jesus spoke of, which is to do unto others as you would have them do to you. The reason we even have a sense of "wrong" is because we all have done wrong, which means that we have all at one time or another broken our own internal moral code. Otherwise, we would have no sense of right or wrong. In this sense our guilt is without defense. In short, the reason we all differ in certain realms of moral conduct is our response for breaking our own internal moral standards. Some have simply altered right and wrong in their own minds by such methods as rationalization in order to justify themselves. For example, the best way to justify genocide is to dehumanize the other party. We see it with Nazis that called Jews vermin or blacks referred to as glorified apes in the deep south in the 1800's or the unborn a fetus, etc.. It is only then that we feel free to treat them as we do cattle because they are no longer our equal.

We only have understanding of things we can relate to, and we only can relate to things we have experience with. This is why we know atheists have morality, because they fully understand their innate thoughts of what is right and wrong which is what they use to try and tear apart their opponents.

christians have NO morality.

So they actually NEED a book to tell them how to behave.

"and god said don't kill"

but the conservative christian said ..."yeah?...why should I follow THAT rule? I kinda LIKE killing..."

and god sayeth "because I am the lord thy god and I command you!"

and the conservative christian yawned and replied...."yeah? well what the fuk are YOU gonna do about it anyway?"

and god sayeth "I shall smite thee! and curse thee! and torment thee in hell for all eternity!"

and the conservative, a bit concerned, meekly replied....

"well...since eternal hellfire is the punishment for killing people I guess I better stop killing people..."

and THAT is where conservative christians get their morals!

from fear.

 

[BreezeWood]

and THAT is where conservative christians get their morals!

from fear.

being as no person has ever seen their god or any two people at the same time has heard the same voice they claim is from their god and having completely made up their bible in the 4th century, a political document disguised as a religion it is quite amazing how they have used that fear to foster their religion through persecution and victimization of the innocent and are still allowed a part in society they are fully unfit to be granted. greed is their morality above all else.

 

[danielpalos]

The question is, morality based upon what?

Humanism.

No. Morals are effectively standards. They exist independent of man. Moral behavior, like truth, is discovered. There is no letter of the law standard. That is called legalism or legal positivism.

why omit ethics?

 

[BreezeWood]

The question is, morality based upon what?

Humanism.

No. Morals are effectively standards. They exist independent of man. Moral behavior, like truth, is discovered. There is no letter of the law standard. That is called legalism or legal positivism.

why omit ethics?

.

why omit ethics?

absolutes in such matters are not invariable especially over time, evolution that is why there is the religion of antiquity that evil will never be allowed to be a contributing participant. that is what perishes when the temporary physical life comes to an end.

 

[Votto]

Atheists have morality. The question is, morality based upon what?

Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species.

So you would say that morality is based upon your own perceived view of what is best for your survival?

No, I would say "Morality is largely a function of those elements / behaviors that further survival of the species".

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If anyone thinks otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there are no gods. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me, kill me?

If you answer no, then gods aren't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt (not you personally, the greater “you”), and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

Morality is both transitory and fully natural in its source. Take gods away tomorrow and humans would behave pretty much like they do with gods in place. We are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation and it serves us pretty well. Most people do behave morally.

You do realize that people who claim that there is a God historically have also been murderous, right?

For example, there is an element within Islam that thinks that murdering infidels is God's will.

So your argument is a strawman, just because you believe in a God does not mean it discourages you from committing murder or even genocide.

In fact, convincing people that God wants them to kill is one of the most effective ways to motivate people to kill.

In history, we see men try to convince others that they were a god in order to serve them and kill for them, but when that no longer worked, they convinced people that they spoke for God, but when that no longer worked, the tried to convince people that there was no God, thus making themselves a god to the people. Interestingly, these types of regimes, mostly communist, have murdered the most people.

We are largely in agreement. We disagree that I believe in god(s).

We obtain our morality from people who have authority over us, such as the state, the church, your parents, etc, as well as our innate sense of right or wrong.

In this sense, we all have "gods" or a God that we look to for guidance.

Historically we have seen how the morals of society have been swayed with such issues as abortion and slavery. Before they were made legal, they were seen as OK, but once they are illegal, they are seen as immoral. In this sense, we are lemmings, or as the Bible calls us, sheep.

Baa, baa, baa.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We obtain our morality from people who have authority over us, such as the state, the church, your parents, etc, as well as our innate sense of right or wrong.

Speak for yourself. I formed mine through years of reasoned arguments. Don't come fuse your authoritarian bent with everyone else.