Can Atheists be Moral?

[sealybobo]

I’m a sinner.

what sins are you unable to get a fix on ... do you even try.

Is being fos a sin?

 

[sealybobo]

This seems like one of those times where I have demonstrated that morality is subjective and all ding could come back with was that?

I consider that a win

Morality isn’t subjective. Man’s perception of morality is. Morals are effectively standards. Standards exist in and of themselves.

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

Watch the Orville. Great show. It’s like Star Trek where they visit other planets. On one planet it was immoral to be straight. Everyone was gay. They killed straights.

If we didn’t start covering our women’s bodies with clothes 50,000 years ago nudity wouldn’t be immoral.

.

You missed the point. Man’s perception of morality changes.

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

morality is a construct - - from the underpinnings of evil vs good where over time one is allowed and the other isn't. per the original conclusions of the earliest religions.

christianity that aqueouses to evil rather than its elimination will be to their "predictable surprise" - over time their eventual extinction.

Ding still doesn’t understand.

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

 

[ding]

Morality isn’t subjective. Man’s perception of morality is. Morals are effectively standards. Standards exist in and of themselves.

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

Watch the Orville. Great show. It’s like Star Trek where they visit other planets. On one planet it was immoral to be straight. Everyone was gay. They killed straights.

If we didn’t start covering our women’s bodies with clothes 50,000 years ago nudity wouldn’t be immoral.

.

You missed the point. Man’s perception of morality changes.

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

morality is a construct - - from the underpinnings of evil vs good where over time one is allowed and the other isn't. per the original conclusions of the earliest religions.

christianity that aqueouses to evil rather than its elimination will be to their "predictable surprise" - over time their eventual extinction.

Ding still doesn’t understand.

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

 

[ding]

I’m a sinner.

what sins are you unable to get a fix on ... do you even try.

Is being fos a sin?

If it is there should be some predictable surprise that lets you know. Consequences are a bitch.

 

[sealybobo]

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

Watch the Orville. Great show. It’s like Star Trek where they visit other planets. On one planet it was immoral to be straight. Everyone was gay. They killed straights.

If we didn’t start covering our women’s bodies with clothes 50,000 years ago nudity wouldn’t be immoral.

.

You missed the point. Man’s perception of morality changes.

Nonsense. And I’ve given you plenty examples how it’s all in your head.

morality is a construct - - from the underpinnings of evil vs good where over time one is allowed and the other isn't. per the original conclusions of the earliest religions.

christianity that aqueouses to evil rather than its elimination will be to their "predictable surprise" - over time their eventual extinction.

Ding still doesn’t understand.

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

Boy you will never admit you are wrong huh? Do you know you are a little shit? You can argue that water isn't wet. What is wet? Define wet? That's not wet that's damp. LOL.

 

[sealybobo]

I’m a sinner.

what sins are you unable to get a fix on ... do you even try.

Is being fos a sin?

If it is there should be some predictable surprise that lets you know. Consequences are a bitch.

You and your predictable surprises and locust of control bs. Broken record

 

[ding]

.
morality is a construct - - from the underpinnings of evil vs good where over time one is allowed and the other isn't. per the original conclusions of the earliest religions.

christianity that aqueouses to evil rather than its elimination will be to their "predictable surprise" - over time their eventual extinction.

Ding still doesn’t understand.

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

Boy you will never admit you are wrong huh? Do you know you are a little shit? You can argue that water isn't wet. What is wet? Define wet? That's not wet that's damp. LOL.

One time I thought I was wrong and later found out I was really right so I was wrong at least once.

I make mistakes all of the time. But then I correct them and the case gets stronger because of it.

 

[jillian]

Many theists believe it is clear-cut. Humans can only have opinions about morality, and no one’s opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s. This leads them to the conclusion that an objective source of morality must stand apart from, and above, humans. That source, they say, is God. Since atheists, reject God, atheists can have no basis for morality.

This is really two separate arguments: (1) that God is the source of objective morality and humans can learn morality from God and (2) that humans on their own have no way to know what is moral and what is not.

Can atheists be moral? - Atheist Alliance International

Probably more moral than pretend Christians

 

[sealybobo]

Many theists believe it is clear-cut. Humans can only have opinions about morality, and no one’s opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s. This leads them to the conclusion that an objective source of morality must stand apart from, and above, humans. That source, they say, is God. Since atheists, reject God, atheists can have no basis for morality.

This is really two separate arguments: (1) that God is the source of objective morality and humans can learn morality from God and (2) that humans on their own have no way to know what is moral and what is not.

Can atheists be moral? - Atheist Alliance International

Probably more moral than pretend Christians

Based on the definition

principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
synonyms: ethics, rights and wrongs, correctness, ethicality More

• a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society.

A. We know right and wrong differ from society to society. Is it immoral to sleep with your dead brothers wife? In America we think so but in Afganistan that's called doing the right thing.
B. Praying 7 times a day. That's the right thing to do in the middle east but Ding doesn't think not doing it is immoral
C. Ethics? This is all subjective stuff.
D. It even says in the definition that morality is a particular system of values held by a specific person or society.

So no ding, there is no universal truth about morality. Unless you are talking about murdering the innocent but even that is subjective because we abort every day. It may not be a moral thing to do but it certainly isn't murder. Not in America it isn't.

 

[sealybobo]

Ding still doesn’t understand.

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

Boy you will never admit you are wrong huh? Do you know you are a little shit? You can argue that water isn't wet. What is wet? Define wet? That's not wet that's damp. LOL.

One time I thought I was wrong and later found out I was really right so I was wrong at least once.

I make mistakes all of the time. But then I correct them and the case gets stronger because of it.

Ok, here is a great article about how Trump is the most unethical president of all time

The Most Unethical Presidency: Year One - CREW

If you can argue with this article then you prove morality is subjective. If you read this article and agree 100% with the writer then please continue to stubbornly say that morals are set in stone.

 

[ding]

I’m a sinner.

what sins are you unable to get a fix on ... do you even try.

Is being fos a sin?

If it is there should be some predictable surprise that lets you know. Consequences are a bitch.

You and your predictable surprises and locust of control bs. Broken record

It’s a very powerful concept and tool. Dismiss it at your own peril. I’m good either way.

 

[ding]

But I do. You are confusing man's changing perception of morality with morality changing. Morality just is.

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

Boy you will never admit you are wrong huh? Do you know you are a little shit? You can argue that water isn't wet. What is wet? Define wet? That's not wet that's damp. LOL.

One time I thought I was wrong and later found out I was really right so I was wrong at least once.

I make mistakes all of the time. But then I correct them and the case gets stronger because of it.

Ok, here is a great article about how Trump is the most unethical president of all time

The Most Unethical Presidency: Year One - CREW

If you can argue with this article then you prove morality is subjective. If you read this article and agree 100% with the writer then please continue to stubbornly say that morals are set in stone.

I’m not invested in politics as you are.

Standards exist independent of people following them. We have all kinds of laws that people break all the time. Breaking the law or the standard does not invalidate the law or standard. It only means people will suffer the consequences for doing so.

 

[BreezeWood]

But what might not be moral to you is moral to a muslim.

So you think that the highest power of morality is in fact morality. So, yes, eating a living plant is immoral.

In another world across the galaxy they would say eating plants is a sin. And they would say morality just is. It's obvious. Just ask our boy ding over there in the milky way galaxy. He knows that spitting is a sin. It's fucking OBVIOUS right?

You are not only reading too much into it you are getting all emotional because of one word; sin.

All I am saying is that for any given thing there will be a standard. You are free to follow it or not. You are free to decide which standard you believe in but the actual highest standard is independent of your perception of it. The standard exists independent of your perception.

Boy you will never admit you are wrong huh? Do you know you are a little shit? You can argue that water isn't wet. What is wet? Define wet? That's not wet that's damp. LOL.

One time I thought I was wrong and later found out I was really right so I was wrong at least once.

I make mistakes all of the time. But then I correct them and the case gets stronger because of it.

Ok, here is a great article about how Trump is the most unethical president of all time

The Most Unethical Presidency: Year One - CREW

If you can argue with this article then you prove morality is subjective. If you read this article and agree 100% with the writer then please continue to stubbornly say that morals are set in stone.

I’m not invested in politics as you are.

Standards exist independent of people following them. We have all kinds of laws that people break all the time. Breaking the law or the standard does not invalidate the law or standard. It only means people will suffer the consequences for doing so.

.

Standards exist independent of people following them. We have all kinds of laws that people break all the time. Breaking the law or the standard does not invalidate the law or standard. It only means people will suffer the consequences for doing so.

why not explain how avowed sinners, a sinning religion, christianity can represent morals by the simple fact those that do not sin whatever that might be are by definition the equivalency of moral and living a true existence, christian. as either the true religion of antiquity to triumph against evil or simply who are non sinners being possibly atheists.

 

[Jackson]

Of course athiests can be moral...or immoral. That is a perfect reason for Christians can be guilty of breaking a commandment and still be a Christian. It's called asking God for forgiveness. Athiests just ask a mortal for forgiveness when they want it.

 

[LittleNipper]

Of course athiests can be moral...or immoral. That is a perfect reason for Christians can be guilty of breaking a commandment and still be a Christian. It's called asking God for forgiveness. Athiests just ask a mortal for forgiveness when they want it.

Atheists cannot be moral, because they base morality on personal or social acceptance. Morality must be based on the acceptance or rejection of an impartial third party.

Can a murderer be moral? Well, he may choose to do something moral; however, he also has done something immoral. The immoral deed trumps all the individual's moral deeds in GOD's eyes. Only through the saving grace of GOD through the Messiah does GOD extend forgiveness of sin.

 

[Jackson]

Of course athiests can be moral...or immoral. That is a perfect reason for Christians can be guilty of breaking a commandment and still be a Christian. It's called asking God for forgiveness. Athiests just ask a mortal for forgiveness when they want it.

Atheists cannot be moral, because they base morality on personal or social acceptance. Morality must be based on the acceptance or rejection of an impartial third party.

Can a murderer be moral? Well, he may choose to do something moral; however, he also has done something immoral. The immoral deed trumps all the individual's moral deeds in GOD's eyes. Only through the saving grace of GOD through the Messiah does GOD extend forgiveness of sin.

My guess iss there are many "Moral" people who don't be.lieve in God at one time in their lives. It doesn't mean they have sinned, but they don't have the faith required to get to heaven. God expects us to get to heaven not just what you've done, but what is in your heart. If you don't have faith, you are lost.

 

[RWS]

cmm, He has his own ways of saying the truth.

Let's answer the master question of this thread.

Atheists are moral.

Religious fanatics are not....

 

[RWS]

Of course athiests can be moral...or immoral. That is a perfect reason for Christians can be guilty of breaking a commandment and still be a Christian. It's called asking God for forgiveness. Athiests just ask a mortal for forgiveness when they want it.

Atheists cannot be moral, because they base morality on personal or social acceptance. Morality must be based on the acceptance or rejection of an impartial third party.

Can a murderer be moral? Well, he may choose to do something moral; however, he also has done something immoral. The immoral deed trumps all the individual's moral deeds in GOD's eyes. Only through the saving grace of GOD through the Messiah does GOD extend forgiveness of sin.

Not many atheists are murderers. So I don't understand how you can compare.

However, many religious people ARE MURDERERS, and if not already murderers, they have the murder spirit in their heart. How do you feel about that?

 

[RWS]

You're ready to kill upon command from the Pope.

I will just laugh.

 

[RWS]

Actually, I'll cry, because it happened again, despite all warnings....