Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

[PetriFB]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

 

[Chuckt]

No.

There is a thing called the sin of ignorance and sin is built in.

 

[hobelim]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

sorry but your doctrine does not pass the test.

Why would Jesus exhort his follows to strive to be perfect if it was impossible for them to be perfect?


To commit sin is to break God's Law: sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man therefore who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.
My children, do not be misled. It is the man who does what is right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.
A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner, because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil. No one who does not do what is right is Gods child.
1 John 3:4-10

 

[Chuckt]

sorry but your doctrine does not pass the test.

Why would Jesus exhort his follows to strive to be perfect if it was impossible for them to be perfect?

Do you know how hard it was for the doctors to get my mentally ill stepsister to take her medicine? She said she didn't need it. She said she wasn't sick.

What was the 613 commandments for? To show you your condition. The law was a mirror to show us our condition but you don't go to the mirror to get clean. You go to the mirror to see that you are dirty.

B. Effect of their interpretation.

1. They were able to keep the law, and claim obedience to it.

2. They became smug and self-righteous.

3. The purpose of the law thwarted.

a. "To make whole world guilty before God." (Rom.3:19).

b. "To give knowledge of sin." (Rom, 3:20).

4. Resting in false righteousness.

a. "Law made nothing perfect." (Heb. 7:19).

b. (Gal. 2:21) "If righteousness came by the law, then Christ died in vain."

5. They weren't being driven to God by despair.

a. "Law a school master to drive us to Christ." (Gal. 3:24).

b. They felt righteous not sinful.

c. They failed to attain the righteousness. (Rom. 9:30).

III. "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU" THIS IS WHAT WAS MEANT BY GOD WHEN HE GAVE LAW.

A. It is spirit of the law that matters most.

1. Spirit of law often violated when letter kept.

a. Example of law of murder.

b. Have you hated, said inflammatory things, have you been angry?

c. Law of adultery.

d. Have you desired, thought about it?

B. Obedience to law should never be thought of in terms of actions only.

1. The thoughts or attitudes that lead to the actions to be judged.

C. The law must not be considered in terms of negatives.

1. Not doing evil is not enough.

2. God demands positive actions of good.

a. Love your enemies, bless those who curse you.

3. True righteousness not demonstrated by refraining to do evil things.

a. I don't drink, dance, attend theater, smoke.

D. Law meant to bring you to full relationship with God.

1. At end of day I don't sit down in self-righteousness and say, "Well I didn't kill anyone today."

2. The real question, has God been supreme in your life today?

a. Has Christ been magnified through you?

b. Have you exemplified Him in your actions and attitudes.

E. Effect of His true interpretation.

1. I am driven to God.

Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Chuck Smith - Chuck Smith Sermon Notes

 

[jwoodie]

Please define, explicitly, "believer" and "sin."

 

[naomibee]

NO becaues the bible says so.

 

[hobelim]

sorry but your doctrine does not pass the test.

Why would Jesus exhort his follows to strive to be perfect if it was impossible for them to be perfect?

Do you know how hard it was for the doctors to get my mentally ill stepsister to take her medicine? She said she didn't need it. She said she wasn't sick.

What was the 613 commandments for? To show you your condition. The law was a mirror to show us our condition but you don't go to the mirror to get clean. You go to the mirror to see that you are dirty.

No chuck, the law was given as a light to the nations. The law was given to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil so they might learn to be holy as God is holy in a world that had been for billions of years without shape and void; and darkness covered the face of the deep.

Listen Chuck, it is well known that Jesus taught that obedience to the law, according to his divine revelation, is the way to life.

If you don't care to observe any of the commands of God that scripture teaches is the only way to eternal life, go for it. Just don't blame it on Jesus......Anyone who cares to check the facts will realize that you have either made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself.

Either way for you to mislead others at this point amounts to intentional sin, specifically murder.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It is written:

A Call to Persevere

Hebrews 10: 19 - 39

Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another - and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctifies him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know him, who said, It is mine to avenge, I will repay, and again, The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Remember those earlier days after you received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution, at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

So do not thow away your confidence, it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For in just a little while,

He who is coming will come and will not delay.
But my righteous one will live by faith.

And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.

But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed,
but of those who believe and are saved.

 

[Chuckt]

Listen Chuck, it is well known that Jesus taught that obedience to the law, according to his divine revelation, is the way to life.

If you don't care to observe any of the commands of God that scripture teaches is the only way to eternal life, go for it. Just don't blame it on Jesus......Anyone who cares to check the facts will realize that you have either made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself.

Either way for you to mislead others at this point amounts to intentional sin, specifically murder.

You missed 5 verses in my quote, hobelim.

What you and others are teaching is legalism:

Colossians 2:20-22 20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)– in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

What is Legalism and why is it so bad? | Ordinary Pastor

1. Legalism Promotes unbiblical standards (self-authority)
2. Legalism Promotes performance (self-righteousness)
3. Legalism Promotes Division
4. Legalism Demotes Jesus (and his sufficient righteousness)

What is Legalism and why is it so bad? | Ordinary Pastor

And Paul jumps in with some more in Galatians:


Galatians 2:21 21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Legalism is a dangerous system. In it the sheep are hurt, the gospel is veiled, Christ is marginalized, and we are exalted. There is little wonder that the Apostle Paul finds himself agonizing with sweaty earnestness for the church in Colossae (Col. 1.28-2.3).

-ibid.

 

[koshergrl]

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
romans 3:23

 

[WinterBorn]

So a newborn baby is not without sin? A toddler who cannot comprehend God and cannot ask for forgiveness and salvation is going to Hell?

 

[koshergrl]

A newborn is innocent, but has a corrupt nature.

Infants who die are gathered to God.

 

[hobelim]

Listen Chuck, it is well known that Jesus taught that obedience to the law, according to his divine revelation, is the way to life.

If you don't care to observe any of the commands of God that scripture teaches is the only way to eternal life, go for it. Just don't blame it on Jesus......Anyone who cares to check the facts will realize that you have either made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself.

Either way for you to mislead others at this point amounts to intentional sin, specifically murder.

You missed 5 verses in my quote, hobelim.

What you and others are teaching is legalism.

What you are preaching is rebellion against the will of God for people to have pure minds and to be holy as God is holy as specified in the law and as Jesus preached is the only way to eternal life...



What kind of creature does that, according to scripture, professor?

 

[koshergrl]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

I would like the quotes and links to the sites where believers are "time and again" discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin.

Because I have been around for a long time, and I have NEVER heard believers teach that doctrine.

 

[Avatar4321]

People become believers because they realize they have committed sin. So no. Because being a believer presupposes the recognition of ones sins.

When a man begins to exercise faith in Christ, he can overcome his sins through the grace of God. For example, if you struggle with the sin of pornography. You can stop viewing/reading/participating in this sin today. And if you get through a day, you are perfect for that day. if you mess up the next day, you can still try again the next. The more you work at it, the more you are filled with the grace of God and before long you are no longer trapped in bondage to pornography.

Are you perfect then? In regards to that sin yes, But as we gain mastery over ourselves and keep the commandments of God, we begin to see other ways where we have sinned that we may not have been aware of before. We then have the opportunity to seek the grace of God in overcoming that weakness.

When we become believers we learn line upon line, and precept upon precept, grace to grace. If we are on the path of seeking the grace of God, we will recieve it, but don't expect to be perfect in this life. And don't expect to be perfect on your own. Because it's only through the grace of God that we become so.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

sorry but your doctrine does not pass the test.

Why would Jesus exhort his follows to strive to be perfect if it was impossible for them to be perfect?

Do you know how hard it was for the doctors to get my mentally ill stepsister to take her medicine? She said she didn't need it. She said she wasn't sick.

What was the 613 commandments for? To show you your condition. The law was a mirror to show us our condition but you don't go to the mirror to get clean. You go to the mirror to see that you are dirty.

No chuck, the law was given as a light to the nations. The law was given to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil so they might learn to be holy as God is holy in a world that had been for billions of years without shape and void; and darkness covered the face of the deep.

Listen Chuck, it is well known that Jesus taught that obedience to the law, according to his divine revelation, is the way to life.

If you don't care to observe any of the commands of God that scripture teaches is the only way to eternal life, go for it. Just don't blame it on Jesus......Anyone who cares to check the facts will realize that you have either made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself.

Either way for you to mislead others at this point amounts to intentional sin, specifically murder.

Your answers are astonishing me today, Hobelim. You are very, very close to the truth here. What Jesus taught was that "He" is the way to life. He is the the truth, the way and the life - and the door through which we enter in - by His Blood - into the Most Holy Place - having fellowship with G-d the Father. You are right on the mark with your quoting of 1 John 1 : 4 - 10, Hobelim.

Jesus also said, If you love me? You will keep my commandments. He didn't say he would keep them for us. He said to his followers, YOU WILL keep them. If they don't? Well, this is why Jesus said, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would be in heaven where as those who didn't strive ( agonize ) to enter in the strait gate but chose the wide path instead - were cast into outer darkness where there would be weep and gnashing of teeth.

It is our Love for Jesus Christ that will assure we keep his commandments and obey Him. It is the desire of our heart to obey God! It is not a heavy burden but a very light yoke! Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God. Doing the will of God is not works but effortless in that it is not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit sayeth the Lord. We delight to do His will.

The carnal man who desires to live the fleshly life does not delight to do the Will of G-d. He delights in serving G-d according to his own will. Much as Cain offered what he wanted rather than what G-d had asked for. Abel delighted in obeying G-d and Cain did not. Therein the difference of the too. One loved God while the other really didn't. That is why Cain was always worried about what Abel was doing. He could not rest in his own relationship with God because truthfully he didn't have one. So instead he sought to murder his own brother. Did you know that God considers slander to be murder too? He does. Those who slander ( speak falsely against another person ) are murderers in Gods eyes. It is written in the bible.

While you are right that those who teach others they can sin their way to heaven - are guilty of murder - you can expect that they will come back with accusations of legalism, tell you that you are teaching something, under the law, that their doctrine is under grace, that Jesus kept the commandments so they do not have to obey them.. it is a perversion of the truth and Jesus warned the church in Matthew 24 chapter no less than 5 times that the number one challenge of the end times church would be deception.

This is what you are looking at. The church has fallen into great deception and because of this when true persecution comes and the rapture doesn't? The great falling away will happen.

These people you see defending the sin in their lives - who have an entitlement mentality that "God owes them" because they said a Jesus come into my heart prayer a few decades ago...... will be the very same ones who will turn in the true believers in order to save their own lives.

And just as Jesus warned, they will think they are doing God a favor by getting rid of us. Yes, the true believers are going to suffer the exact same fate as the true believers in the book of Acts did. It is a small company of believers - a remnant - but a mighty one. The greatest persecution Jesus and his followers endured came from religious zealots who had no personal relationship with God. Not the average out there lost soul. It is the same way today. Nothing has changed. There is.........as the writer of Ecclesiastes lamented.....nothing new under the sun.

- Jeri

 

[hobelim]

People become believers because they realize they have committed sin. So no. Because being a believer presupposes the recognition of ones sins.

When a man begins to exercise faith in Christ, he can overcome his sins through the grace of God. For example, if you struggle with the sin of pornography. You can stop viewing/reading/participating in this sin today. And if you get through a day, you are perfect for that day. if you mess up the next day, you can still try again the next. The more you work at it, the more you are filled with the grace of God and before long you are no longer trapped in bondage to pornography.

Are you perfect then? In regards to that sin yes, But as we gain mastery over ourselves and keep the commandments of God, we begin to see other ways where we have sinned that we may not have been aware of before. We then have the opportunity to seek the grace of God in overcoming that weakness.

When we become believers we learn line upon line, and precept upon precept, grace to grace. If we are on the path of seeking the grace of God, we will recieve it, but don't expect to be perfect in this life. And don't expect to be perfect on your own. Because it's only through the grace of God that we become so.

If you can't look at naked women without lust then the problem is within you, not in the pictures you look at.

And because you think there is something sinful about human sexuality does that make it sinful for those who are not burdened by such shackles of shame?

And who would feel shame about the human condition if not only those who are guilty of sin, Mr. I can be like God, observe no law, and am destined to rule the earth?

 

[Chuckt]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

I've been trying today to bring up your link. My browser keeps waiting.

 

[Chuckt]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

I would like the quotes and links to the sites where believers are "time and again" discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin.

Because I have been around for a long time, and I have NEVER heard believers teach that doctrine.

It is found in Acts 15 where our brothers and sisters in Christ encountered the error.

 

[Chuckt]

So a newborn baby is not without sin? A toddler who cannot comprehend God and cannot ask for forgiveness and salvation is going to Hell?

The Bible teaches the age of accountability. God doesn't hold them accountable because they don't know any better.