Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

[Rustic]

The Pledge of Allegiance is not an expression of patriotism. It is a loyalty oath that one normally associates with totalitarian regimes. People who love freedom, should be appalled by the idea our children are being coerced to stand and declare their support for the state. This is the worst form of indoctrination and it is completely anathema to the principals articulated in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I cannot imagine outspoken libertarians like Thomas Jefferson or Tom Paine ever proclaiming their loyalty to the state when they correctly saw the state as the greatest threat to individual freedom. Which it is.

Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head.

Now I’d have no problem if our schoolchildren recited the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence before class every day:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

That’s great stuff, unfortunately, the people who run this country would never allow it. They’d never allow our kids to recite an incendiary, revolutionary document like that every day for fear it would incite violence against the state. What they want is “good Germans”, not revolutionaries, not freedom-loving populists, and not well-informed, critical thinking individuals who can see through the sham of their jingoistic propaganda. They want people who are going to follow the rules, do what they’re told, fight the wars, and perform their worktime drudgery for 30 or 40 years until they’re carted off to the glue factory. That’s what they want. Reciting the Pledge fits perfectly with this dumbed-down version of permanent indentured servitude. It provides the ideological foundation for bovine acquiescence to the demands of the state and the crooks who run it behind the tri-color banner.

The fact that institutions like the Pledge are never challenged in a public format, points to deeper problems with the media and the way our kids are being educated. And while I don’t have time to talk about that now, it makes me wonder where are the people to question these silly recitations that undermine democracy and personal liberty? Why are their voices never heard?
---------------------------------

Read the rest here:
Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

Interesting perspective, one that I've shared for years but never bothered to articulate as well as this author did. Your thoughts?

I would be for getting rid of it - if we get rid of all career politicians…
Lol

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Conservatives have a strange love affair with authoritarianism.

They are fear-based. Having a Big Daddy, on the ground and in the sky, makes them feel safer. That and their .38 teddy bear small penis enhancements.

I'm a Conservative and not religious. What do you think women that own fire arms are trying to compensate for. ?

 

[namvet]

one thing nice about the dems is they draw idiots and morons like an outhouse draws flies. keep em all in one place. flip it to auto and pull the trigger

 

[Coyote]

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?

Our Lady of course...is there any other?

 

[ptbw forever]

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

Well I am a religious person who doesn't care if the 'under God' is in the Pledge or not, but certainly see it as the symbolism of a nation founded on the principle of God given rights, for those who believe in God, or natural rights for those who do not. I know a lot of non religious people who look at it just that way. When a majority of the people want the phrase gone, however, it will be gone. When a majority want the Pledge gone, it will be gone. Right now those of you who object to it are simply in a fairly small minority and it is not harming you in the least.

Which God is in the Pledge?

The only one that is capitalized....

 

[Coyote]

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Because while we may all believe in unity, our country, our shared heritage - we may not all believe in a god or the right god and because a pledge is a pledge - one should take it seriously.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Why are we even entertaining this anti American stupidity? Ignore these anti social tarts and stop giving them legitimacy by responding to their ignorant positions.
I don't even believe in God and I find this discussion to be incredibly dumb.

Fucking crybaby liberals.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?

Our Lady of course...is there any other?

Our Lady isn't God, Our Lady is the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[SYTFE]

Why is patriotism important

Nationalism
The Dangers of Nationalism - An American Warning
Dangers of Nationalism
Beware The Economic Dangers of Nationalism

 

[ptbw forever]

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

Well I am a religious person who doesn't care if the 'under God' is in the Pledge or not, but certainly see it as the symbolism of a nation founded on the principle of God given rights, for those who believe in God, or natural rights for those who do not. I know a lot of non religious people who look at it just that way. When a majority of the people want the phrase gone, however, it will be gone. When a majority want the Pledge gone, it will be gone. Right now those of you who object to it are simply in a fairly small minority and it is not harming you in the least.

I am not a religious person, but I am very spiritual and I do believe in an intelligent creator.

I am also not against the pledge in the least bit.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Conservatives have a strange love affair with authoritarianism.

As opposed to the authoritarianism of political correctness?

I oppose both. The difference is conservatives run around screaming about freedom, liberty, and don't tread on me, but then get on your knees and lick the boots of anyone in a uniform and support imperialism and using brute force to get your way.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why are we even entertaining this anti American stupidity? Ignore these anti social tarts and stop giving them legitimacy by responding to their ignorant positions.
I don't even believe in God and I find this discussion to be incredibly dumb.

Fucking crybaby liberals.

Yes Grampa it's another example of the bedwetting cry-babies having a tantrum and cry-bullying.

 

[Moonglow]

Why are we even entertaining this anti American stupidity? Ignore these anti social tarts and stop giving them legitimacy by responding to their ignorant positions.
I don't even believe in God and I find this discussion to be incredibly dumb.

Fucking crybaby liberals.

This isn't your crew and discussions are better than violence..

 

[ptbw forever]

Why is patriotism important

Nationalism
The Dangers of Nationalism - An American Warning
Dangers of Nationalism
Beware The Economic Dangers of Nationalism

Fearmongering to the extreme.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The Pledge is authoritarian, but the Fed telling states how to educate children is not ?

 

[Moonglow]

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?

Our Lady of course...is there any other?

Our Lady isn't God, Our Lady is the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

If that is your religion, why must everyone conform to it?

 

[Coyote]

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?

Our Lady of course...is there any other?

Our Lady isn't God, Our Lady is the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Depends on your outlook

 

[Moonglow]

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

Well I am a religious person who doesn't care if the 'under God' is in the Pledge or not, but certainly see it as the symbolism of a nation founded on the principle of God given rights, for those who believe in God, or natural rights for those who do not. I know a lot of non religious people who look at it just that way. When a majority of the people want the phrase gone, however, it will be gone. When a majority want the Pledge gone, it will be gone. Right now those of you who object to it are simply in a fairly small minority and it is not harming you in the least.

Which God is in the Pledge?

The only one that is capitalized....

So every proper noun can now be a God.....

 

[SYTFE]

I like the flag too. Flying the flag in front of your house is cool.

But isn't it kind of weird to do it year round? Those people are usually a bit nutty. Break it out on holidays,Veterans day, 4th of july, etc.

Nah, it's okay. Just don't have one of those giant flags that's as big as the house.

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Nationalism is disgusting. Expressing extreme pride in the state -- especially when you had no fucking say in the matter -- is disgusting. What sort of idiot takes that much pride in something they had no choice in? Oh, your parents happened to have fucked in the USA? Congratulations. Wow.

As the author wrote, anything reminiscent of a totalitarian regime is wrong. I know you love authoritarianism, so you have a hard time wrapping your head around this concept. After all, you're "proud" of something you had no say in.

This is the best paragraph in the article, "Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head."

You fucking communist bastard...


You have no God Damn respect for the men who fought for your God Damn freedom, saved the world twice in two wars..

Promoted freedom around the world, and brought the world into the 21 st century..


No other country on earth can say that, sure we have our bad points liberals and conservatives both.


But we are human after all

No nation in the history of earth can claim all the good we did..


You are a fucking piece of shit...

.

Way to fly off the handle there, ya loon. Talk about unhinged...

1. Not a communist, you drooling moron.
2. No one fought for "my freedom" since 1776, so shut the fuck up with your bullshit.
3. "Promoted freedom around the world," like how we did in Iraq you mean? lol
4. Get fucked.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Conservatives have a strange love affair with authoritarianism.

As opposed to the authoritarianism of political correctness?

I oppose both. The difference is conservatives run around screaming about freedom, liberty, and don't tread on me, but then get on your knees and lick the boots of anyone in a uniform and support imperialism and using brute force to get your way.

We've already determined what a dumbass you are so what you THINK of conservatives is unimportant. None of this asinine shit would even be being discussed if it wasn't for anti social tards that have to whine about everything. Stick a pacifier in it & stfu

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?

Our Lady of course...is there any other?

Our Lady isn't God, Our Lady is the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Depends on your outlook

I'm not aware of it being anywhere stated that Our Lady is also God.