Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

[Coyote]

There is an awakening happening right now, and it is evolving, much to the chagrin of authoritarian conservatives who hate change.

They lost the culture war and are desperate to revive it before Christianity is just one of many faiths and they can't lord it over the rest of us.

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

 

[ptbw forever]

They lost the culture war and are desperate to revive it before Christianity is just one of many faiths and they can't lord it over the rest of us.

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

They lost the culture war and are desperate to revive it before Christianity is just one of many faiths and they can't lord it over the rest of us.

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

 

[Hossfly]

On Flag Day, burn one. That will show true liberty, not that false crap conservatives love.

It might be legal if but Hossfly catches any one burning an American flag they had better be prepared to receive a major ass kicking. Also anyone not rendering the flag the proper respect will be chastised physically. Don't say anything about Hossfly going to jail. Tain't possible.

 

[ptbw forever]

They lost the culture war and are desperate to revive it before Christianity is just one of many faiths and they can't lord it over the rest of us.

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

The original pledge wasn't being used in every public school in America.

 

[Foxfyre]

On Flag Day, burn one. That will show true liberty, not that false crap conservatives love.

It might be legal if but Hossfly catches any one burning an American flag they had better be prepared to receive a major ass kicking. Also anyone not rendering the flag the proper respect will be chastised physically. Don't say anything about Hossfly going to jail. Tain't possible.

Well Hossfly, as much as I have a huge case of like with you, I can't condone physical violence when people exercise the liberty that the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag represent by disrespecting these symbols that are so important to so many of us. I might not object to a well phrased verbal ass kicking though.

 

[StLucieBengal]

They lost the culture war and are desperate to revive it before Christianity is just one of many faiths and they can't lord it over the rest of us.

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

This is true. It was added in 1954 I believe.

 

[Foxfyre]

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

 

[Coyote]

I always liked the pledge the way it originally was, because it's emphasis was that we would never again be divided by a civil war like we once were - one nation united. I always felt that "under God" was awkwardly added.

I don't have strong feelings about the pledge - though I prefer it's original version. I grew up with the pledge in elementary school...it was part of life then

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The Pledge of Allegiance is not an expression of patriotism. It is a loyalty oath that one normally associates with totalitarian regimes. People who love freedom, should be appalled by the idea our children are being coerced to stand and declare their support for the state. This is the worst form of indoctrination and it is completely anathema to the principals articulated in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I cannot imagine outspoken libertarians like Thomas Jefferson or Tom Paine ever proclaiming their loyalty to the state when they correctly saw the state as the greatest threat to individual freedom. Which it is.

Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head.

Now I’d have no problem if our schoolchildren recited the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence before class every day:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

That’s great stuff, unfortunately, the people who run this country would never allow it. They’d never allow our kids to recite an incendiary, revolutionary document like that every day for fear it would incite violence against the state. What they want is “good Germans”, not revolutionaries, not freedom-loving populists, and not well-informed, critical thinking individuals who can see through the sham of their jingoistic propaganda. They want people who are going to follow the rules, do what they’re told, fight the wars, and perform their worktime drudgery for 30 or 40 years until they’re carted off to the glue factory. That’s what they want. Reciting the Pledge fits perfectly with this dumbed-down version of permanent indentured servitude. It provides the ideological foundation for bovine acquiescence to the demands of the state and the crooks who run it behind the tri-color banner.

The fact that institutions like the Pledge are never challenged in a public format, points to deeper problems with the media and the way our kids are being educated. And while I don’t have time to talk about that now, it makes me wonder where are the people to question these silly recitations that undermine democracy and personal liberty? Why are their voices never heard?
---------------------------------

Read the rest here:
Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

Interesting perspective, one that I've shared for years but never bothered to articulate as well as this author did. Your thoughts?

You pansies pick the stupidest shit to whine about. Find your nearest safe space & take shelter pussy

 

[ptbw forever]

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

 

[Foxfyre]

I like the flag too. Flying the flag in front of your house is cool.

But isn't it kind of weird to do it year round? Those people are usually a bit nutty. Break it out on holidays,Veterans day, 4th of july, etc.

Nah, it's okay. Just don't have one of those giant flags that's as big as the house.

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Uhmm, well you have that right to your opinion...but I have the right to mine...and yours is no better than mine........

The difference though is that the Pledge, the National Anthem, and displaying the flag is enjoyable and satisfying to millions of people while costing the grumpies who don't like them absolutely nothing. It takes absolutely nothing from you during the opening ceremonies or the customary routine. You can check your phone or listen to your Ipod or whatever during the opening ceremonies. But to demand that people do away with them because the grumpies don't like them does take something important away from them.

I do wish that everybody could understand that liberty for law abiding citizens should always be a win-win situation for everybody as much as possible. When the Pledge or National Anthem or displaying the flag requires no participation or contribution from you, then the majority preference should prevail.

I have never advocated taking them away, just that is should not be a requirement for people that do not with to join in for what ever reason, without being turned into a pariah of society.......

I agree if they just allow others to do their thing and do not interfere or make a public display of protest that interferes with everybody who is enjoying the exercise. But if they are going to be obviously disrespectful or insulting during any of these ceremonies, they are rude and unacceptable and I have no problem with the others informing them of that; even removing them from the venue if they are being disruptive.

 

[StLucieBengal]

If you want to get technical about the pledge it is nationalism propaganda. That isn't always a bad thing however.... There is nothing wrong with reciting it in schools and having under God in there is not a big deal either. There is a correlation between religious belief and a peaceful public.

The socialists don't like this belief because they want to squash all religious belief and have everyone count on government for their needs. The funny thing is that the socialist loves the pledge in part because its supporting the government but hates that under God is in there....

Nationalism isn't a dirty word or a bad thing. It's cool that many houses fly the American flag. My wife always said that she heard America was like that and didn't realize it until we was here. When we go back we never see any house with their flag. I have mentioned before that maybe we should put an American flag on the rental house lol.

 

[StLucieBengal]

No one is forcing christianity and there is no awakening. However, the depths of depravity know no bounds.

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

 

[Foxfyre]

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

Well I am a religious person who doesn't care if the 'under God' is in the Pledge or not, but certainly see it as the symbolism of a nation founded on the principle of God given rights, for those who believe in God, or natural rights for those who do not. I know a lot of non religious people who look at it just that way. When a majority of the people want the phrase gone, however, it will be gone. When a majority want the Pledge gone, it will be gone. Right now those of you who object to it are simply in a fairly small minority and it is not harming you in the least.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Nah, it's okay. Just don't have one of those giant flags that's as big as the house.

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Uhmm, well you have that right to your opinion...but I have the right to mine...and yours is no better than mine........

The difference though is that the Pledge, the National Anthem, and displaying the flag is enjoyable and satisfying to millions of people while costing the grumpies who don't like them absolutely nothing. It takes absolutely nothing from you during the opening ceremonies or the customary routine. You can check your phone or listen to your Ipod or whatever during the opening ceremonies. But to demand that people do away with them because the grumpies don't like them does take something important away from them.

I do wish that everybody could understand that liberty for law abiding citizens should always be a win-win situation for everybody as much as possible. When the Pledge or National Anthem or displaying the flag requires no participation or contribution from you, then the majority preference should prevail.

I have never advocated taking them away, just that is should not be a requirement for people that do not with to join in for what ever reason, without being turned into a pariah of society.......

I agree if they just allow others to do their thing and do not interfere or make a public display of protest that interferes with everybody who is enjoying the exercise. But if they are going to be obviously disrespectful or insulting during any of these ceremonies, they are rude and unacceptable and I have no problem with the others informing them of that; even removing them from the venue if they are being disruptive.

Everyone should stand whether you believe it or not... You show respect for others. Just like when you eat dinner at someone's home and they all bow their heads to pray.... You bow your head and shut your eyes while they do their thing. You don't sit there scooping out mashed potatoes

 

[Moonglow]

Nah, it's okay. Just don't have one of those giant flags that's as big as the house.

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Uhmm, well you have that right to your opinion...but I have the right to mine...and yours is no better than mine........

The difference though is that the Pledge, the National Anthem, and displaying the flag is enjoyable and satisfying to millions of people while costing the grumpies who don't like them absolutely nothing. It takes absolutely nothing from you during the opening ceremonies or the customary routine. You can check your phone or listen to your Ipod or whatever during the opening ceremonies. But to demand that people do away with them because the grumpies don't like them does take something important away from them.

I do wish that everybody could understand that liberty for law abiding citizens should always be a win-win situation for everybody as much as possible. When the Pledge or National Anthem or displaying the flag requires no participation or contribution from you, then the majority preference should prevail.

I have never advocated taking them away, just that is should not be a requirement for people that do not with to join in for what ever reason, without being turned into a pariah of society.......

I agree if they just allow others to do their thing and do not interfere or make a public display of protest that interferes with everybody who is enjoying the exercise. But if they are going to be obviously disrespectful or insulting during any of these ceremonies, they are rude and unacceptable and I have no problem with the others informing them of that; even removing them from the venue if they are being disruptive.

That goes for both sides..

 

[Moonglow]

"Under God".....

The majority of Leftists are Athiests, they hate God, they hate Christianity, so this is why Leftists across this planet work to have any reference to God removed from anything.

They are greatly offended by the Christian Cross and the thought of God, but they're NOT offended by the Islamic Crescent, then when people say well why should Muslims be parading about in Islamic attire in Western nations, they say they're allowed to do that because of religious freedom, this is how confused Leftists now are.

Yes, but that was simply a response to a confused person as to why Christians and other religious people can pledge to a flag and a nation without being a blasphemer.

The much stronger argument for religion in America actually comes from the original state(and colony)constitutions directly mentioning God, even after the Constitution(specifically the 1st amendment) was the law of the land.

In fact the very bastions of anti-Christian thought today in the Northeast were basically theocratic when this country was founded.

Any person in accordance with his/her religious beliefs is certainly as able as anybody else to not participate in the Pledge or the singing of the National Anthem or the flag ceremony. That's what liberty is. You can choose whether to participate or not. But the fact that a person chooses not to participate is not license for that person to demand that nobody else participate.

Yes, but I was explaining why most religious people don't have a problem pledging anyway.

The original comment was stating that believers in God could not pledge today without effectively violating their beliefs because it somehow put the flag and the nation above God(which is obviously contradicted by "under God" in the pledge itself).

Well I am a religious person who doesn't care if the 'under God' is in the Pledge or not, but certainly see it as the symbolism of a nation founded on the principle of God given rights, for those who believe in God, or natural rights for those who do not. I know a lot of non religious people who look at it just that way. When a majority of the people want the phrase gone, however, it will be gone. When a majority want the Pledge gone, it will be gone. Right now those of you who object to it are simply in a fairly small minority and it is not harming you in the least.

Which God is in the Pledge?

 

[Moonglow]

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Uhmm, well you have that right to your opinion...but I have the right to mine...and yours is no better than mine........

The difference though is that the Pledge, the National Anthem, and displaying the flag is enjoyable and satisfying to millions of people while costing the grumpies who don't like them absolutely nothing. It takes absolutely nothing from you during the opening ceremonies or the customary routine. You can check your phone or listen to your Ipod or whatever during the opening ceremonies. But to demand that people do away with them because the grumpies don't like them does take something important away from them.

I do wish that everybody could understand that liberty for law abiding citizens should always be a win-win situation for everybody as much as possible. When the Pledge or National Anthem or displaying the flag requires no participation or contribution from you, then the majority preference should prevail.

I have never advocated taking them away, just that is should not be a requirement for people that do not with to join in for what ever reason, without being turned into a pariah of society.......

I agree if they just allow others to do their thing and do not interfere or make a public display of protest that interferes with everybody who is enjoying the exercise. But if they are going to be obviously disrespectful or insulting during any of these ceremonies, they are rude and unacceptable and I have no problem with the others informing them of that; even removing them from the venue if they are being disruptive.

Everyone should stand whether you believe it or not... You show respect for others. Just like when you eat dinner at someone's home and they all bow their heads to pray.... You bow your head and shut your eyes while they do their thing. You don't sit there scooping out mashed potatoes

Even Jesus stated that prayers in public are for those that are boisterous, one must go into a room or a place to pray alone to speak with the Father...

 

[Moonglow]

This nerd is a Jehovahs Witness, they hate the flag and the pledge, in fact the orgs bylaws do not let them say the pledge of allegiance. They are also not Christians so do not be fooled.

Liberty means not being forced by your government to "pledge" to things. Anyone who truly believes in God can't pledge allegiance either since that belongs solely to God who is above all things including nations.

"Under God".....

That bit was never part of the original pledge....

Why is that considered offensive or wrong or whatever, would you say?

Under God isn't wrong. We all need more God.

Which God?