Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

[Indeependent]

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

You are so right about Jews in general; but Israeli’s are a different bread all together.

Israeli’s are cold blooded child murderers who will get what they sow; hopefully sooner rather than later.

View attachment 332269

Of course I don't mean that, Palestinians would get the fallout
-

Israelis are getting what they deserve...the whole damned Middle East cowering in fear.
You have my permission to be a self-hating Jew but you do not have anybody's permission to revise history.

 

[Indeependent]

I am a Gnostic Christian.
I was referring to the Christian myth of Yahweh and Jesus. The bible.

Regards
DL

Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. Wikipedia

myth of Yahweh.
In my view---
There is a high probability that there is a higher intelligence out there among the stars.
Whether you believe in God or not is a personal choice. I believe He exists, you do not.

myth of Jesus.
The person named Jesus existed. The Old Testament was already in print during his life and those biblical verses is what he spoke about during his life time. I believe this, you don’t

myth of the bible.
The bible is no myth. It is a collection of books written thousands of years ago by different people at different times. The Jewish people could learn a lot about themselves and their connection with God by following His commandments.

Lets agree to disagree and move on -

Tell us what Yeshu said that's not already in Tanach.
Any answer you provide will prove that don't know Tanach.

I'll try. The thing about the other cheek and love of your enemies.

Excellent...Define "enemies".
A foreign force is definitely what in English is an enemy.

The Torah has no such concept as an enemy within your fellow people.
In fact, the Torah refers to all people within your community as Chiborim, "those to whom you cling".
We are commanded to help someone we cannot tolerate with their burdens, an example of which in the Torah is helping them unload and load burdens upon their donkey.

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

Why is it important to define 'enemy'? One can consider his colleague as enemy because he spreads hearsay; another one considers as enemy that guy who bullied his in school; someone else considers his neighbor as enemy because he has some other ethnicity.

It doesn't matter what one describes as enemy. Do you have one? (Whatever it means for you). Love him.

And that is the difference between how Hashem sees humans and how Paul of Tarsis saw humans.
There is always a path towards redeeming someone.
The funny thing is these issues are addressed head on in the Book of Numbers after The Children of Israel walk through the Sea.
But your Priest told you not to read these verses because Jews Bad.
It's a shame how much you don't already know because it will never be brought up in Church.

Oh come on, dude, I am sure you are better than that. I don't consider myself a Christian, don't go to church and obviously don't have a pastor.

And know what? You won't believe, but I read the Numbers now. I finished at the chapter 30. Before I read Genesis, Exodus and Leviticus.

Yeah, you can imagine what mess is in my head know. To say nothing that I have got way more quesions now than answers.

I believe you read it...it's very dry.
Read it again and think about the ramifications of of what God expects from The Children of Israel.
I am lucky in that I can read it in Hebrew and have spent decades reading the commentaries and having debates with classmates and neighbors.
I also find that I have a completely different perspective of each and every verse as I age and see more of the world for what it is.
I'm almost 61 and the difference between what I perceive in the verses and the context is way beyond even 2 or 3 years ago.

Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?

"Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?"

Actually, 1,000 years of Roman Catholic Church proved that would be the disaster it wound up becoming.
Christians are trained to isolate a verse out of context and to translate every reference to a human as being Jesus.
This is, of course, a farce.

Your job is to start reading, with the inquisitive mindset of a mature adult, from Genesis 1:1.
I would not mind you thinking about a verse and letting me know when you say to yourself, "Jesus!".

A key point...
Every letter, word and space in the Torah is meant to inform, not hide.

 

[ESay]

I am a Gnostic Christian.
I was referring to the Christian myth of Yahweh and Jesus. The bible.

Regards
DL

Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. Wikipedia

myth of Yahweh.
In my view---
There is a high probability that there is a higher intelligence out there among the stars.
Whether you believe in God or not is a personal choice. I believe He exists, you do not.

myth of Jesus.
The person named Jesus existed. The Old Testament was already in print during his life and those biblical verses is what he spoke about during his life time. I believe this, you don’t

myth of the bible.
The bible is no myth. It is a collection of books written thousands of years ago by different people at different times. The Jewish people could learn a lot about themselves and their connection with God by following His commandments.

Lets agree to disagree and move on -

Tell us what Yeshu said that's not already in Tanach.
Any answer you provide will prove that don't know Tanach.

I'll try. The thing about the other cheek and love of your enemies.

Excellent...Define "enemies".
A foreign force is definitely what in English is an enemy.

The Torah has no such concept as an enemy within your fellow people.
In fact, the Torah refers to all people within your community as Chiborim, "those to whom you cling".
We are commanded to help someone we cannot tolerate with their burdens, an example of which in the Torah is helping them unload and load burdens upon their donkey.

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

Why is it important to define 'enemy'? One can consider his colleague as enemy because he spreads hearsay; another one considers as enemy that guy who bullied his in school; someone else considers his neighbor as enemy because he has some other ethnicity.

It doesn't matter what one describes as enemy. Do you have one? (Whatever it means for you). Love him.

And that is the difference between how Hashem sees humans and how Paul of Tarsis saw humans.
There is always a path towards redeeming someone.
The funny thing is these issues are addressed head on in the Book of Numbers after The Children of Israel walk through the Sea.
But your Priest told you not to read these verses because Jews Bad.
It's a shame how much you don't already know because it will never be brought up in Church.

Oh come on, dude, I am sure you are better than that. I don't consider myself a Christian, don't go to church and obviously don't have a pastor.

And know what? You won't believe, but I read the Numbers now. I finished at the chapter 30. Before I read Genesis, Exodus and Leviticus.

Yeah, you can imagine what mess is in my head know. To say nothing that I have got way more quesions now than answers.

I believe you read it...it's very dry.
Read it again and think about the ramifications of of what God expects from The Children of Israel.
I am lucky in that I can read it in Hebrew and have spent decades reading the commentaries and having debates with classmates and neighbors.
I also find that I have a completely different perspective of each and every verse as I age and see more of the world for what it is.
I'm almost 61 and the difference between what I perceive in the verses and the context is way beyond even 2 or 3 years ago.

Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?

"Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?"

Actually, 1,000 years of Roman Catholic Church proved that would be the disaster it wound up becoming.
Christians are trained to isolate a verse out of context and to translate every reference to a human as being Jesus.
This is, of course, a farce.

Your job is to start reading, with the inquisitive mindset of a mature adult, from Genesis 1:1.
I would not mind you thinking about a verse and letting me know when you say to yourself, "Jesus!".

A key point...
Every letter, word and space in the Torah is meant to inform, not hide.

Well, to say frankly I didnt understand fully what you were trying to say. But thanks for offering help in studying (if I got this part correctly). Though, it will take time and several more re-readings before I will get to ask meaningful questions.

 

[Indeependent]

I am a Gnostic Christian.
I was referring to the Christian myth of Yahweh and Jesus. The bible.

Regards
DL

Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. Wikipedia

myth of Yahweh.
In my view---
There is a high probability that there is a higher intelligence out there among the stars.
Whether you believe in God or not is a personal choice. I believe He exists, you do not.

myth of Jesus.
The person named Jesus existed. The Old Testament was already in print during his life and those biblical verses is what he spoke about during his life time. I believe this, you don’t

myth of the bible.
The bible is no myth. It is a collection of books written thousands of years ago by different people at different times. The Jewish people could learn a lot about themselves and their connection with God by following His commandments.

Lets agree to disagree and move on -

Tell us what Yeshu said that's not already in Tanach.
Any answer you provide will prove that don't know Tanach.

I'll try. The thing about the other cheek and love of your enemies.

Excellent...Define "enemies".
A foreign force is definitely what in English is an enemy.

The Torah has no such concept as an enemy within your fellow people.
In fact, the Torah refers to all people within your community as Chiborim, "those to whom you cling".
We are commanded to help someone we cannot tolerate with their burdens, an example of which in the Torah is helping them unload and load burdens upon their donkey.

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

Why is it important to define 'enemy'? One can consider his colleague as enemy because he spreads hearsay; another one considers as enemy that guy who bullied his in school; someone else considers his neighbor as enemy because he has some other ethnicity.

It doesn't matter what one describes as enemy. Do you have one? (Whatever it means for you). Love him.

And that is the difference between how Hashem sees humans and how Paul of Tarsis saw humans.
There is always a path towards redeeming someone.
The funny thing is these issues are addressed head on in the Book of Numbers after The Children of Israel walk through the Sea.
But your Priest told you not to read these verses because Jews Bad.
It's a shame how much you don't already know because it will never be brought up in Church.

Oh come on, dude, I am sure you are better than that. I don't consider myself a Christian, don't go to church and obviously don't have a pastor.

And know what? You won't believe, but I read the Numbers now. I finished at the chapter 30. Before I read Genesis, Exodus and Leviticus.

Yeah, you can imagine what mess is in my head know. To say nothing that I have got way more quesions now than answers.

I believe you read it...it's very dry.
Read it again and think about the ramifications of of what God expects from The Children of Israel.
I am lucky in that I can read it in Hebrew and have spent decades reading the commentaries and having debates with classmates and neighbors.
I also find that I have a completely different perspective of each and every verse as I age and see more of the world for what it is.
I'm almost 61 and the difference between what I perceive in the verses and the context is way beyond even 2 or 3 years ago.

Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?

"Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?"

Actually, 1,000 years of Roman Catholic Church proved that would be the disaster it wound up becoming.
Christians are trained to isolate a verse out of context and to translate every reference to a human as being Jesus.
This is, of course, a farce.

Your job is to start reading, with the inquisitive mindset of a mature adult, from Genesis 1:1.
I would not mind you thinking about a verse and letting me know when you say to yourself, "Jesus!".

A key point...
Every letter, word and space in the Torah is meant to inform, not hide.

Well, to say frankly I didnt understand fully what you were trying to say. But thanks for offering help in studying (if I got this part correctly). Though, it will take time and several more re-readings before I will get to ask meaningful questions.

A pursuit that increases your connection with God for all eternity is worth much more time than a mere few months.
I will be happy to help you according to my knowledge of any given subject.

The caveat is start from Genesis 1:1 and continue verse by verse; no skipping to another verse in another book to reinforce any preconceived notions.

 

[ESay]

I am a Gnostic Christian.
I was referring to the Christian myth of Yahweh and Jesus. The bible.

Regards
DL

Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. Wikipedia

myth of Yahweh.
In my view---
There is a high probability that there is a higher intelligence out there among the stars.
Whether you believe in God or not is a personal choice. I believe He exists, you do not.

myth of Jesus.
The person named Jesus existed. The Old Testament was already in print during his life and those biblical verses is what he spoke about during his life time. I believe this, you don’t

myth of the bible.
The bible is no myth. It is a collection of books written thousands of years ago by different people at different times. The Jewish people could learn a lot about themselves and their connection with God by following His commandments.

Lets agree to disagree and move on -

Tell us what Yeshu said that's not already in Tanach.
Any answer you provide will prove that don't know Tanach.

I'll try. The thing about the other cheek and love of your enemies.

Excellent...Define "enemies".
A foreign force is definitely what in English is an enemy.

The Torah has no such concept as an enemy within your fellow people.
In fact, the Torah refers to all people within your community as Chiborim, "those to whom you cling".
We are commanded to help someone we cannot tolerate with their burdens, an example of which in the Torah is helping them unload and load burdens upon their donkey.

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

Why is it important to define 'enemy'? One can consider his colleague as enemy because he spreads hearsay; another one considers as enemy that guy who bullied his in school; someone else considers his neighbor as enemy because he has some other ethnicity.

It doesn't matter what one describes as enemy. Do you have one? (Whatever it means for you). Love him.

And that is the difference between how Hashem sees humans and how Paul of Tarsis saw humans.
There is always a path towards redeeming someone.
The funny thing is these issues are addressed head on in the Book of Numbers after The Children of Israel walk through the Sea.
But your Priest told you not to read these verses because Jews Bad.
It's a shame how much you don't already know because it will never be brought up in Church.

Oh come on, dude, I am sure you are better than that. I don't consider myself a Christian, don't go to church and obviously don't have a pastor.

And know what? You won't believe, but I read the Numbers now. I finished at the chapter 30. Before I read Genesis, Exodus and Leviticus.

Yeah, you can imagine what mess is in my head know. To say nothing that I have got way more quesions now than answers.

I believe you read it...it's very dry.
Read it again and think about the ramifications of of what God expects from The Children of Israel.
I am lucky in that I can read it in Hebrew and have spent decades reading the commentaries and having debates with classmates and neighbors.
I also find that I have a completely different perspective of each and every verse as I age and see more of the world for what it is.
I'm almost 61 and the difference between what I perceive in the verses and the context is way beyond even 2 or 3 years ago.

Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?

"Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?"

Actually, 1,000 years of Roman Catholic Church proved that would be the disaster it wound up becoming.
Christians are trained to isolate a verse out of context and to translate every reference to a human as being Jesus.
This is, of course, a farce.

Your job is to start reading, with the inquisitive mindset of a mature adult, from Genesis 1:1.
I would not mind you thinking about a verse and letting me know when you say to yourself, "Jesus!".

A key point...
Every letter, word and space in the Torah is meant to inform, not hide.

Well, to say frankly I didnt understand fully what you were trying to say. But thanks for offering help in studying (if I got this part correctly). Though, it will take time and several more re-readings before I will get to ask meaningful questions.

A pursuit that increases your connection with God for all eternity is worth much more time than a mere few months.
I will be happy to help you according to my knowledge of any given subject.

The caveat is start from Genesis 1:1 and continue verse by verse; no skipping to another verse in another book to reinforce any preconceived notions.

Thank you.
Yes, I am doing just that. I have read the first three books, almost finished Numbers and going to read Deuteronomy. Verse by verse.

When I will finish the fifth book, I am going to start again from Genesis and read them all again until I get common understanding and more or less memorize main points of them.

 

[Indeependent]

I am a Gnostic Christian.
I was referring to the Christian myth of Yahweh and Jesus. The bible.

Regards
DL

Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. Wikipedia

myth of Yahweh.
In my view---
There is a high probability that there is a higher intelligence out there among the stars.
Whether you believe in God or not is a personal choice. I believe He exists, you do not.

myth of Jesus.
The person named Jesus existed. The Old Testament was already in print during his life and those biblical verses is what he spoke about during his life time. I believe this, you don’t

myth of the bible.
The bible is no myth. It is a collection of books written thousands of years ago by different people at different times. The Jewish people could learn a lot about themselves and their connection with God by following His commandments.

Lets agree to disagree and move on -

Tell us what Yeshu said that's not already in Tanach.
Any answer you provide will prove that don't know Tanach.

I'll try. The thing about the other cheek and love of your enemies.

Excellent...Define "enemies".
A foreign force is definitely what in English is an enemy.

The Torah has no such concept as an enemy within your fellow people.
In fact, the Torah refers to all people within your community as Chiborim, "those to whom you cling".
We are commanded to help someone we cannot tolerate with their burdens, an example of which in the Torah is helping them unload and load burdens upon their donkey.

I know, I know, the NT commanded you to skip over that verse because it proves that Jews aren't hateful, spiteful shitheads.

Why is it important to define 'enemy'? One can consider his colleague as enemy because he spreads hearsay; another one considers as enemy that guy who bullied his in school; someone else considers his neighbor as enemy because he has some other ethnicity.

It doesn't matter what one describes as enemy. Do you have one? (Whatever it means for you). Love him.

And that is the difference between how Hashem sees humans and how Paul of Tarsis saw humans.
There is always a path towards redeeming someone.
The funny thing is these issues are addressed head on in the Book of Numbers after The Children of Israel walk through the Sea.
But your Priest told you not to read these verses because Jews Bad.
It's a shame how much you don't already know because it will never be brought up in Church.

Oh come on, dude, I am sure you are better than that. I don't consider myself a Christian, don't go to church and obviously don't have a pastor.

And know what? You won't believe, but I read the Numbers now. I finished at the chapter 30. Before I read Genesis, Exodus and Leviticus.

Yeah, you can imagine what mess is in my head know. To say nothing that I have got way more quesions now than answers.

I believe you read it...it's very dry.
Read it again and think about the ramifications of of what God expects from The Children of Israel.
I am lucky in that I can read it in Hebrew and have spent decades reading the commentaries and having debates with classmates and neighbors.
I also find that I have a completely different perspective of each and every verse as I age and see more of the world for what it is.
I'm almost 61 and the difference between what I perceive in the verses and the context is way beyond even 2 or 3 years ago.

Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?

"Ok, but it would be more fair if you specified the verses you were referring to. Wouldnt it?"

Actually, 1,000 years of Roman Catholic Church proved that would be the disaster it wound up becoming.
Christians are trained to isolate a verse out of context and to translate every reference to a human as being Jesus.
This is, of course, a farce.

Your job is to start reading, with the inquisitive mindset of a mature adult, from Genesis 1:1.
I would not mind you thinking about a verse and letting me know when you say to yourself, "Jesus!".

A key point...
Every letter, word and space in the Torah is meant to inform, not hide.

Well, to say frankly I didnt understand fully what you were trying to say. But thanks for offering help in studying (if I got this part correctly). Though, it will take time and several more re-readings before I will get to ask meaningful questions.

A pursuit that increases your connection with God for all eternity is worth much more time than a mere few months.
I will be happy to help you according to my knowledge of any given subject.

The caveat is start from Genesis 1:1 and continue verse by verse; no skipping to another verse in another book to reinforce any preconceived notions.

Thank you.
Yes, I am doing just that. I have read the first three books, almost finished Numbers and going to read Deuteronomy. Verse by verse.

When I will finish the fifth book, I am going to start again from Genesis and read them all again until I get common understanding and more or less memorize main points of them.

Thank you and God speed.
Keep an important concept in mind...be void of any preconceived notions as you read.

 

[ding]

Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you have faith?

If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?

Regards
DL

You will never thwart God. God is using your evil to create good.