Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[JakeStarkey]

The libertarian posters on the page above are classic examples of their failure politically, philosophically, and morally. They hurl names and cry when they get called out and spanked for it. Libertarianism is a criminal political philosophy, the flip side of communism, whereas both promote "elites" that terrorize the rest of the population.

My sources right, center, and left above are solid. Cuba in 1958 was not a worker's paradise; for 65% of the population, it was an agricultural hell with almost-nonexistent clean sanitation and water, poor drinking water, lack of electricity, and almost no access to medical care.

Check them and see if anyone can invalidate the evidence.

 

[bripat9643]

Uh, there are communists and socialists in this country and many of them are hiding in the Democrap party. They typically don't come out in the open but they are working to undermine this country from within.

There also is a Flat-Earth Society in America. And there is an untold number of Americans who are busily constructing underground survival cells, some of which are former missile sites purchased from the government and cost tens of thousands of dollars. The fact is there is a little bit of everything in America, including communists. (Nazis, too.)

There are a lot of communists in America. They walk around in broad daylight and call themselves "Democrats," "progressives" or even "moderates."

It appears your mind is made up on this subject so I won't waste time and space trying to reason with you. But you really should give some thought to the fact that the notion of communists taking over America was played out in the fifties and is widely regarded as crackpot paranoia today.

The people who regard it as "crack pot paranoia" are largely communists and their fellow travelers. The McCarthy era demonstrated beyond all doubt that there is an abundance of communists in this country. Our government was riddled with them in the 1950s. Those commies didn't disappear when the cold war ended. They simply registered as Democrats and took over the party.

I respectfully suggest you spend some time learning what communism is and why contemporary America is the least likely place for it to make any serious inroads.

I don't waste much of my time reading fiction these days.

 

[bripat9643]

The libertarian posters on the page above are classic examples of their failure politically, philosophically, and morally. They hurl names and cry when they get called out and spanked for it. Libertarianism is a criminal political philosophy, the flip side of communism, whereas both promote "elites" that terrorize the rest of the population.

My sources right, center, and left above are solid. Cuba in 1958 was not a worker's paradise; for 65% of the population, it was an agricultural hell with almost-nonexistent clean sanitation and water, poor drinking water, lack of electricity, and almost no access to medical care.

Check them and see if anyone can invalidate the evidence.

I have already proven that the source of all your claims about Cuba is communist propaganda. MikeK says that anyone who claims there are communists in this country is paranoid, yet here you are spouting statistics that you got from the CEE and MINSIP - two organs of the Communist government of Cuba.

 

[Unkotare]

oh great here we are with the idiotic questions again. State your conclusion or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so!

Any Econ 101 text will tell you we have a mixed economy with some socialism and some capitalism. Why not go to college rather than ask dumb questions here??

Well I'm pleased that you have access to an econ 101 textbook. Tell us what does your econ 101 textbook say about governnment's role of redistribution of wealth or income.
I don't think we need to ask you to cite the text.

why ask idiotic questions. Why not state your conclusion and defend it or admit as a liberal you lack the IQ to do so??

You should become a democrat, because you really are an embarrassment to sane, thinking conservatives, headcase.

 

[daveman]

Well, since the progressives like to pretend places like the former Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia "weren't practicing REAL communism" as an excuse, how about THIS example? I know this story has been told many times.

When the Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower, they set up a society in which no one could own property and everyone shared equally, no matter how much work they did. The result was misery and hunger. But when the governor allowed each man to plant and raise crops for his own household, something amazing happened.

William Bradford recorded the experiences of the Separatists who came to the New World on the Mayflower and later voyages some years after the events actually occurred. His memory was evidently aided by personal letters that had been retained as well as his own contemporary writings. The following occurred around 1622 and 1623, three years after the establishment of Plymouth colony. It involved not more than probably two-dozen families. For some time, the “Pilgrims” had raised meager crops, running short of food stores every winter. Infusions of new mouths to feed on ships from England did not help, but that, it turns out, was not the source of their problem. Mr. Bradford can speak for himself:

All this while no supplies were heard of, nor did they know when they might expect any. So they began to consider how to raise more corn, and obtain a better crop than they had done, so that they might not continue to endure the misery of want. At length after much debate, the Governor, with the advice of the chief among them, allowed each man to plant corn for his own household, and to trust to themselves for that; in all other things to go on in the general way as before. So every family was assigned a parcel of land, according to the proportion of their number with that in view, — for present purposes only, and making no division for inheritance, — all boys and children being included under some family.

This was very successful. It made all hands very industrious, so that much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the Governor or any other could devise, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better satisfaction. The women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to plant corn, while before they would allege weakness and inability; and to have compelled them would have been thought great tyranny and oppression.

The failure of the experiment of communal service, which was tried for several years, and by good and honest men proves the emptiness of the theory of Plato and other ancients, applauded by some of later times, — that the taking away of private property, and the possession of it in community, by a commonwealth, would make a state happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God.

William Bradford's writings go on to explain that the young men objected to being made to labor to support other mens' wives and children. The older and more experienced men felt that being ranked equally with those younger and less-wise was an insult to them. And the women regarded being made to labor for men other than their own husbands as a form of slavery, and their husbands were offended by it.

It wasn't until the Pilgrims - or Separatists, as they called themselves - were released from their communal arrangement to work solely on behalf of themselves and their own families that their colony became prosperous.

The Pilgrims' failed experiment with communism | Goldwater Institute

Feel free, if you don't like this source, to find any references you like to Bradford’s History of the Plymouth Settlement; 1608-1650, by William Bradford. The whole sad tale is down there in black and white.

I've tried this before. They claimed it wasn't real socialism.

 

[daveman]

But you really should give some thought to the fact that the notion of communists taking over America was played out in the fifties and is widely regarded as crackpot paranoia today.

Yes, usually by the same people who knowingly or unknowingly support Communist ideals.

 

[JakeStarkey]

bripat, who used fascist pro-Cuban Miami sources without regard for the bias I demonstrated there, has trouble looking at all sources from the right to the left. Cuba for the great majority of population was a hell hole in 1958, and bripat has offered nothing cherry picked info for the 35% of Cubans who were OK.

That bripat would accuse a right of center Republican of being "communist" is sheer lunacy. bripat condemns libertarianism has the fool's political philosophy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Unregulated capitalism or communism: both are of the devil.

Consider monoculture sugar capitalism in 1958 in Cuba and communism there in 2008.

Neither forms are acceptable.

Ohh look, George Soros' paid hack posts something stupid, yet again...

Good job, Jakematters; you're really earning your pay.

Hey stupid, sugar production in Cuba was controlled by the corrupt government. It was the regulation you fucktard Communists push that allowed Batista to determine the winners and losers.

Look, you're a paid demagogue with no capacity for actual thought; but if you could think, the irony of using the corrupt Cuban sugar industry would dawn on you.

 

[Uncensored2008]

65% were in absolute misery in 1958 and you call it a "paradise."

Then you Communists rode in and got that to 99% in abject misery.

Heck of a job, Comrade Jakematters.

The economy was overwhelmingly based on sugar, and the money powers that made huge profits exploited the agricultural workers.

You have no idea of what you are discussing.

Batista sold favors to foreign concerns who sold sugar. It was the power of the state that allowed him to do so. In a market economy, such corruption would not be possible.

Notice how nothing changed when your hero Castro took over? Just that ComeCom rather than C&H bought the favors?

Did your boss, Mr. Soros, fail to tell you that part?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uh, there are communists and socialists in this country and many of them are hiding in the Democrap party. They typically don't come out in the open but they are working to undermine this country from within.

Obamacare was the first step to take away the free market with healthcare, which would be the Govt controlling a vast majority of our economy....the first step. Hitler, Lenin, Mao, Castro, etc understood the baby steps and the nationalization of private sectors to control the masses.

What is the difference between the Communist and Democrat parties?

I got nothing...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Uncensored is mumbling again. Speak up, boy. You are a fascist, so you hate communism and capitalism.

 

[daveman]

What is the difference between the Communist and Democrat parties?

I got nothing...

Uh oh -- Fake's going to leap to the defense of his beloved Parties.

Uncensored is mumbling again. Speak up, boy. You are a fascist, so you hate communism and capitalism.

See?

 

[JakeStarkey]

daveman cannot define socialism or communism and show how they are part of the American narrative.

daveman is merely davying along.

 

[daveman]

daveman cannot define socialism or communism and show how they are part of the American narrative.

daveman is merely davying along.

Boy, whenever anyone criticizes ANYTHING on the left, you show up to defend it.

And the really funny bit? You believe people buy your "moderate Republican" bullshit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

#693 above answers daveman, who is merely davying along.

 

[bripat9643]

daveman cannot define socialism or communism and show how they are part of the American narrative.

daveman is merely davying along.

Boy, whenever anyone criticizes ANYTHING on the left, you show up to defend it.

And the really funny bit? You believe people buy your "moderate Republican" bullshit.

Fakey has been vociferously defending the Communist government of Cuba, and he's been using propaganda published by official organs of that government to do it.

Now get this: Fakey claims he's not a communist!

 

[JakeStarkey]

#693 above.

 

[bripat9643]

Well, since the progressives like to pretend places like the former Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia "weren't practicing REAL communism" as an excuse, how about THIS example? I know this story has been told many times.

When the Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower, they set up a society in which no one could own property and everyone shared equally, no matter how much work they did. The result was misery and hunger. But when the governor allowed each man to plant and raise crops for his own household, something amazing happened.

William Bradford recorded the experiences of the Separatists who came to the New World on the Mayflower and later voyages some years after the events actually occurred. His memory was evidently aided by personal letters that had been retained as well as his own contemporary writings. The following occurred around 1622 and 1623, three years after the establishment of Plymouth colony. It involved not more than probably two-dozen families. For some time, the “Pilgrims” had raised meager crops, running short of food stores every winter. Infusions of new mouths to feed on ships from England did not help, but that, it turns out, was not the source of their problem. Mr. Bradford can speak for himself:

All this while no supplies were heard of, nor did they know when they might expect any. So they began to consider how to raise more corn, and obtain a better crop than they had done, so that they might not continue to endure the misery of want. At length after much debate, the Governor, with the advice of the chief among them, allowed each man to plant corn for his own household, and to trust to themselves for that; in all other things to go on in the general way as before. So every family was assigned a parcel of land, according to the proportion of their number with that in view, — for present purposes only, and making no division for inheritance, — all boys and children being included under some family.

This was very successful. It made all hands very industrious, so that much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the Governor or any other could devise, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better satisfaction. The women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to plant corn, while before they would allege weakness and inability; and to have compelled them would have been thought great tyranny and oppression.

The failure of the experiment of communal service, which was tried for several years, and by good and honest men proves the emptiness of the theory of Plato and other ancients, applauded by some of later times, — that the taking away of private property, and the possession of it in community, by a commonwealth, would make a state happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God.

William Bradford's writings go on to explain that the young men objected to being made to labor to support other mens' wives and children. The older and more experienced men felt that being ranked equally with those younger and less-wise was an insult to them. And the women regarded being made to labor for men other than their own husbands as a form of slavery, and their husbands were offended by it.

It wasn't until the Pilgrims - or Separatists, as they called themselves - were released from their communal arrangement to work solely on behalf of themselves and their own families that their colony became prosperous.

The Pilgrims' failed experiment with communism | Goldwater Institute

Feel free, if you don't like this source, to find any references you like to Bradford’s History of the Plymouth Settlement; 1608-1650, by William Bradford. The whole sad tale is down there in black and white.

I've tried this before. They claimed it wasn't real socialism.

Whenever socialism is tried and fails, the libturds claim it wasn't "real socialism," and whenever they point to an example of successful socialism, it appears to be virtually indistinguishable from the governments they demonize as mean, heartless capitalism.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored is mumbling again. Speak up, boy. You are a fascist, so you hate communism and capitalism.

Got your ass whipped again, and left mumbling..

Typical Jakematters....

Standard Disclaimer: Sometimes I think I'm insulting Truthmatters with this....

 

[Uncensored2008]

daveman cannot define socialism or communism and show how they are part of the American narrative.

daveman is merely davying along.

Hey Jakematters, you simpering coward: Where is your great articulation in the CDZ?

Oh, that's right; you hid in the corner and pissed yourself.

Hope Soros didn't pay you for THAT performance.