CBO: Stimulus saved between 5 to 25 million jobs

[frazzledgear]

I hear you

But, it really is not so much the conversation that is important
as it is controlling the message

History and experience is not on the side of the Left
They know it

Which is why they must lie so much and so often
The only positive thing to do is to counter them
each time

Actually history is totally on the side of the left.

From civil rights to women's rights to gay rights to the social safety net, the right has been wrong every time.

And they continue to be....

That is your opinion. The facts state otherwise.
Hell, even perception of liberalism takes on a negative connotation.
During the 2004 Presidential Campaign Sen John Kerry when referred to as a liberal shot back with "I don't appreciate the characterization".
During the 2008 campaign among Obama's little rules he not only declared he would not use his race in the campaign( which he did when it was convenient) he also demanded he not be referred to as a liberal.
We have people on this board who throw tantrums when they are challenged on their liberalism. They deny it 100%.
As a matter of fact, the term 'progressive' came from the notion that 'liberal' carried too much baggage.
And finally that 2009 Gallup poll which studied political ideological self identification showed that just 20% of the respondents identified themselves as liberal. With the majority of those self identifying as moderate or conservative. This poll plus the loss of over 600 federal and state seats by democrats to republicans, sent the political left into orbit.
You are a part of your own reality Chris. You sit at your computer and make up your own set of facts in order for you to live in a comfort zone. That's fine. Post your nonsense here. Nobody cares because nothing you post has any factual basis. It is merely your own rantings.
Feel free to add anything you like. Doesn't make it so.

Chris is re-writing history to suit himself.

1. Civil rights were not led by liberals. Apparently they no longer teach real history in public schools or he would have known that although Democrats controlled both houses of Congress at the time, the only reason civil rights legislation was even passed -including the most important one passed in 1964 -is because of the unified support of Republicans. Democrats were deeply divided over the issue -a problem not found among Republicans who have always believed simply being born here gives us all identical rights. And if we all have identical rights, then every member of every possible group already has the same rights as everyone else -and therefore no such thing as "group rights". It wasn't conservatives who killed the civil rights workers -it was the former slave owners who did -Democrats. It wasn't conservatives who lynched blacks -Democrats again. It wasn't conservatives who tried to block blacks from going to school -Democrats again. It wasn't conservatives who tried to filibuster civil rights legislation to death -Democrats did that too. Democrats have done nothing but try to claim the history of Republicans ever since -while claiming Republicans actually own their own filthy history. I almost puked hearing Hillary Clinton once rail about how Republicans opposed civil rights and as an elected official at that time, it was such a massive LIE it was criminal. But then if I belonged to that party with its filthy, murderous, slave owning, lynching history maybe I'd try to pretend it belonged to my political opponents too. Democrats never abandoned their racism -they simply figured out how to make it acceptable by changing the wrapping paper and disguising it as paternalistic racism -insisting blacks can't be expected to succeed in society unless expectations are lowered for them, can't possibly take care of himself unless whitey does it for him. THEN they could claim unless you agreed with that -why YOU were the real racist! See how that works? But the message is in reality the IDENTICAL thing Democrats have always said about blacks going right back to when they insisted blacks largely had only the mentality of a child and therefore did better as slaves where his white massa' could properly take care of him. The message has never changed -only how its packaged did. And that message is that blacks -unlike the other two races (and there are only three) -can't possibly be expected to do well and can't be expected to take care of themselves. The "why" is unspoken but the same it always was for Democrats. But this way they get to pat themselves on the back and pretend they are all so righteous and caring and "defending" blacks while insisting those who disagree with their "enlightened" assessment of blacks are the real racists. Liberalism has decimated the black family when blacks used to have a lower divorce rate and lower out of wedlock birth rate than whites -but not after Democrats figured out how to get them back on their plantation. Now the majority of their children are born with no father in the home and every study has repeatedly shown the massive damage this does to children and no amount of faux celebrations of "non-traditional families" will ever change the fact that children do best raised by their married parents and the next best is such a distant second as to be "unfavorable" and not even in the running.

2. Liberals actually oppose individual rights because they are incompatible with GROUP rights. Group rights by definition means giving special privileges to members of a group above and beyond those of people outside that group. For example -the so-called Hate Crime legislation essentially says attacking, injuring or killing a member of a particular privileged group is a worse crime than attacking someone outside that group and therefore the punishment should reflect that. In other words it is legislation that demands unequal punishment for the identical crime -based on who the victim is and what MOTIVATED the perpetrator -instead of the illegal act itself. Motive is not a crime but Hate Crime legislation is to make motive itself the crime -in other words what you THINK. In order to control what people think it always starts with attempting it on stuff the majority of people would find acceptable. They don't ever start off by trying to control political thought -that comes later but the notion that government even has the power at all to regulate and punish what you THINK must be accepted by society and it is done in this way. By making what someone THOUGHT a crime itself when committing an act that was already illegal in the first place!

This actually violates and goes against a founding idea in this country that all men are created equal, doesn't it? Because that "all men are created equal" thing is actually referring to being equal in the eyes of the law. Liberals fight to create "super classes" of privileged people because it is a means of manipulating POWER to favored groups that help entrench their own power and make it more difficult for everyone else to gain equal footing again. But they can only do so by first stripping some power from everyone else. Which can only be done by rejecting individual rights for group rights. Liberals love group rights -hate individual rights. After all, who are those who constantly insist it would be proper to use the force and power of government to yank Fox's broadcasting license -for no reason but the fact they hate that Fox allows conservatives equal air time? When was the last time a conservative insisted government should yank MSNBC for posing as a news station when its just a political tool of the left and a joke? Never. The right of free speech doesn't mean just speech liberals want to hear.

The notion liberals and liberalism is all about fighting for the rights of others is bullshit -it is a fact that liberalism is about changing the debate from one of individual rights to group rights because THAT is one of several liberal tools for the purpose changing the balance of power from a decentralized, diffuse base of individual rights to a liberal-run, large and powerful centralized government. It requires siphoning off some of the power from non-group members to an elite composed of these special groups who not surprisingly tend to be composed of leftwing extremists. And let's not kid ourselves -the only group rights they favor are the groups they believe were already voting the "right" way and it a means of bolstering power at the expense of all non-group members. Don't hold your breath waiting for liberals to rally around the notion of group rights for immigrant CUBANS for example. They vote the wrong way and see them among the numbers whose power and influence needs to be diminished and undermined. Same is true for immigrants from any former communist nation for that matter -as far as liberals are concerned, even when a parent died trying to save their child from having to live in the oppressive, totalitarian communist state, they gladly support shipping that kid off to live with a father he never knew and where he is today treated like the unwanted stepchild -over allowing him to be raised by loving relatives right here, right Chris? The picture of yanking poor screaming Elian out of his uncle's arms at gunpoint to ship him back to Castro and a father he never met was such a heartwarming picture that just drips with the "caring" of liberalism.

So civil rights was not driven by liberals even though they try to take claim for it today. Same is true of women's suffrage -driven by Republicans, opposed by Democrats.

Now fighting for the "right" of a woman to kill her unwanted unborn child (the majority of women today do NOT believe they have a right to kill their own unborn child) but NOT a right for a man to do so -that was a liberal thing. (TRUE rights exist for all members without regard to race and gender based on one's SPECIES, not their skin color or their gender - so right off the bat the notion that only half the human race has a "right" that doesn't exist at all for the other half tells you that one is lying ass bullshit.) Fighting to force everyone else to pretend homosexuality provides identical benefits to society as heterosexualityand trying to force others to insist crimes committed against a member of liberals' favored groups is a worse crime than if the identical act is committed against someone who is not a privileged member of that group and therefore force people to "agree" it should be a new American "value" to insist that people are NOT equal under the law after all but that we have elites in this country with privileges and "rights" that go beyond those of non-group members -that's a liberal thing too.

At the VERY same time liberals throw a SHITFIT really trying to lay on the heavy duty "political correctness" crap trying to discourage any meaningful debate about whether homosexuality really is equally valuable or not to society -because that means the fact the average life expectancy of a gay man - even after removing AIDS from the equation -is 20 YEARS less than that of a heterosexual one would become widespread knowledge. Something they would rather totally IGNORE and have everyone else totally ignore than realize there is something WRONG HERE and just MAYBE this isn't an issue that requires special, enhanced privileges for its members but viewed as a social PROBLEM instead, one that is KILLING people -instead of focusing on bullshit like trying to strip employers of the right to enforce dress codes when it comes to flamboyant members of the special group. It would mean their premise that society should be forced to not just tolerate homosexuality but EMBRACE it and pretend it is equally valuable to society is a crock of shit -because no life style that results in killing people at a time in life when they would otherwise be in their most productive years can possibly be equally valuable to society! Oh, so un-politically correct to point out homosexuality is FAR more deadly than smoking which "only" reduces one's life expectancy by 8 years instead of 20.

These kinds of facts don't matter to liberals because it was never about the people IN these groups -it is at all times about manipulating POWER away from political opponents to themselves, entrenching it, hardening it and leaving the rest of us diminished in rights and privileges. If you accept the notion that it is a worse crime to kill a gay man than it is to kill someone who isn't and therefore the murderer should face worse punishment -then you are actually supporting making what someone THINKS a crime itself. That is STRICTLY a liberal thing and modern liberalism is premised on FORCING people to hold only "acceptable" opinions and beliefs in the first place. And that means OPPOSING free speech and LIMITING individual rights. Liberals really do believe human beings are owned by their own creation -and the property of government and that government MUST be our master and not our servant. It is why liberalism naturally leads to the totalitarian state -eventually in a free system people REJECT leftist ideology and it requires the use of state FORCE to keep power AND requires squelching free speech. Which goes back to understanding why liberals will squeal like a stuck hog insisting government should yank Fox's broadcasting license because they believe allowing others to hear ideas and opinions other than their own is DANGEROUS -while conservatives do not believe any such thing and is why you don't ever hear conservatives insist government should yank the broadcasting license of stations they see as nothing but propaganda tools of the left -like MSNBC which is far, far worse than anything Fox has done anyway. Never going to hear a Fox NEWS ANCHOR say hearing some Republican candidate speak sent a thrill up his leg -roflmao!

 

[Listening]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

 

[NoNukes]

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

And very few creative people are Republicans either, so they do not deal with imagination well either. Guess they just do what they are told.

In many ways, that may be true. They do tend to understand the need for unity.

They also are less trusting of the people they send to D.C.

I do not blame them for that.

 

[Listening]

That's exactly what it is. That or he has spaz attacks of some sort.

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

Here is a statistic for you (you might want to learn the difference).

RealClear Obama Approval (average of several polls) has the Pres at a whopping 43.2 and slipping. His disapproval rating is 51.4 and climbing.

Uh oh....those pesky numbers.

I can see the ink shots already.

 

[likeabird03]

Socialism works great.

The police department is socialist. The fire department is socialist. Public schools and universities are socialist. The U.S. military is socialist.

Social Security is socialist and has worked well for 76 years. Medicare is socialist and is keeping my father alive.

And the happiest place on earth is socialist. Click on the link...

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Believing that we should most of the above things in our society doesn't make me a Socialists. I believe govt should provide only the things that private sector can't.

.

You mean like living wages for workers, comrade?

Good idea!

Capitalism has provided more wages, and a higher standard of living than any other economic model in history.

Govt provides artificially high wages to it's workers on the backs of those earning an honest wage in the private sector. And now we're all paying for it.

 

[likeabird03]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

 

[Chris]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

 

[Sundial]

That's exactly what it is. That or he has spaz attacks of some sort.

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

And very few creative people are Republicans either, so they do not deal with imagination well either. Guess they just do what they are told.

On the other hand, a lot of gun nuts, religious zealots and racists are registered Republicans...

 

[likeabird03]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

I think you proved my point. Totally off topic once again.

But since you went there...

Republicans do not hate gay people, blacks, women, civil rights. Go outside once in a while. Dems want to keep this lie going for as long as possible because they need "victims" to support their party. Yes, there are exceptions. But I know plenty of liberals who are also the biggest bigots you will ever know, just come to California.

 

[Chris]

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

I think you proved my point. Totally off topic once again.

But since you went there...

Republicans do not hate gay people, blacks, women, civil rights. Go outside once in a while. Dems want to keep this lie going for as long as possible because they need "victims" to support their party. Yes, there are exceptions. But I know plenty of liberals who are also the biggest bigots you will ever know, just come to California.

I nailed it.

Yes, Republicans love gay people.

Just look at Michelle Bachman's husband.

 

[likeabird03]

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

I think you proved my point. Totally off topic once again.

But since you went there...

Republicans do not hate gay people, blacks, women, civil rights. Go outside once in a while. Dems want to keep this lie going for as long as possible because they need "victims" to support their party. Yes, there are exceptions. But I know plenty of liberals who are also the biggest bigots you will ever know, just come to California.

I nailed it.

Yes, Republicans love gay people.

Just look at Michelle Bachman's husband.

As usual you've said absolutely nothing to address what I've posted.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Socialism works great.

The police department is socialist. The fire department is socialist. Public schools and universities are socialist. The U.S. military is socialist.

Social Security is socialist and has worked well for 76 years. Medicare is socialist and is keeping my father alive.

And the happiest place on earth is socialist. Click on the link...

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Oh please. You fucking retarded lefties have been trying this shit for who knows how long.
Public safety , public works and national defense are essential functions of government. That is certainly NOT socialism. Your father ,God bless him, is not being kept alive by bureaucracy but that bureaucracy can certainly at the stroke of a pen can kill him.
Public schools are NOT socialism. We in our laziness allowed the government to take control of education by default. We said, 'let's pool our money and make a place where all the kids and get an education." Worked great for a while until the "educrat" was invented and the federal government dangled that money carrot in front of the educrat.....
Who said anything about 'happy"? What is it with you libs and "happy"..Who the fuck said we had "happy" as an agenda?
And of course all that wonderful socialism comes at a price. Danes place an average of 46.7% of their income into the hands of government so that the government can take care of them.
Tell ya what..You are free to join the Republic of Denmark as a permanent resident. That is if you think it's so shitty here and to wonderful there.
But if you're going to stay here, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
I am sick and tired of you whiny little bitches complaining about this country and how great it is elsewhere. FUCKING MOVE then. Pack your shit and get out.
Denmark has a smaller population than 20 US states

Wow, I really nailed you on that one.

Nothing you said in this post makes any sense. I particularly love the whinny little stuff about moving. That's a pussy ass conservative cliche.

Everything the government does is socialist....especially the military. They tell you what to eat, where to sleep, what to wear, where to go, who you can have sex with, and they give a check and healthcare every month for the rest of your life. If that isn't socialism, I don't know what is.

Oh...and I forgot one more socialist institution that works really well......

Credit unions.

Yeah yeah yeah......Same old song. Yes Chris, because you state it ,that makes it so. Ok. That and 50 cents gets you a call at a pay phone.
Tell me genius, who is "they"?
One constant in this entire thread...You support a loser ideology.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I think we figured that out a while ago.

Much like an octopus that sprays ink when cornered, he posts his graphs and little canned sentences so he can go to bed at night thinking that Obama is the only reason the boogey man does not get him.

It is pathetic.

That's exactly what it is. That or he has spaz attacks of some sort.

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

Facts? Blogs do not present facts. Blogs are producers of opinions with the hope the blogger can make an income off the advertisements.
That's called capitalism. The enemy of liberalism and the liberator of the people.
Worldview? What is a 'worldview'?
You have opinions. You believe your opinion to be sacrosanct. You believe we should simply acquiesce to your view. Newsflash, it doesn't work that way. Never will.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's exactly what it is. That or he has spaz attacks of some sort.

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

And very few creative people are Republicans either, so they do not deal with imagination well either. Guess they just do what they are told.

No...They are just conservatives.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's exactly what it is. That or he has spaz attacks of some sort.

It's tough when the facts don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

But Republicans never were big on facts.

That's why only 6% of scientists are Republicans.

And very few creative people are Republicans either, so they do not deal with imagination well either. Guess they just do what they are told.

Liberals have no imagination. Liberals are closed minded and exclusionary.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Socialism works great.

The police department is socialist. The fire department is socialist. Public schools and universities are socialist. The U.S. military is socialist.

Social Security is socialist and has worked well for 76 years. Medicare is socialist and is keeping my father alive.

And the happiest place on earth is socialist. Click on the link...

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Believing that we should most of the above things in our society doesn't make me a Socialists. I believe govt should provide only the things that private sector can't.

.

You mean like living wages for workers, comrade?

Good idea!

Yes....Government mandates that control wages across the board. Brilliant.
Ok let's suppose for a moment the federal government mandates the use of this http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/......For example, this site calculates the living wage in Los Angeles County as $34 per hour....So using your logic, every job should pay a minimum of $34 per hour. Ok....so every full time job.. Correct?
So what happens when the restaurants, convenience stores, department stores, the oil changes shops, street sweepers, and all other low skill entry level jobs mainly in service and retail go to that level? Wanna take a guess?.....Correct, the prices of goods and services will rise accordingly. And so will the job losses. Unable to survive this unfunded mandate, businesses would shut their doors.
Also, living wage mandates would result in an upward shift in ALL wages.
It's all relative. Higher wages are inflationary in that the more business must pay for labor, the higher the prices for goods and services passed along tothe end user of those goods and services.
Real estate would become much higher priced as well. That $1000 per month studio apartment that is common in the Northwest and Southern suburbs of Washington Dc may as well be $3k per month. After all demand and the high salary structure of the Washington MSO drives the housing market.
This is reality.
Mandating a so called living wage would not increase buying power. As a matter of fact, it would diminish it as businesses struggle to keep their doors open the first and most expensive thing to go is labor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

"They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc...."
You will now produce examples of this.
Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.".....You will now produce examples which prove this as well.
Otherwise, you're blowing a lot of smoke and hot air.

 

[frazzledgear]

Hey Chris,

Looking forward to the well thought out analysis you are going to provide to refute this rather engaging post.

Or....will we just see another ink-graph ?

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

Still re-writing that history, huh? The southern Democrats broke away to form the segregationist Dixiecrat Party. ANY clue where they went when that party collapsed? They were welcomed back with open arms to the Democrat Party where they remained until the day they died. Very few Dixiecrats did NOT go back to the Democrat Party -and the few who ended up Republican like Strom Thurmond, chose to be independents for years before first RENOUNCING their previous racist beliefs and then becoming Republicans. On top of which you seem to think demographics haven't changed in the south? Are you for real? The south underwent a massive influx of northerners -who were largely Republicans. But this notion that Democrats suddenly abandoned their racist views and the very premise of their party platform AT THE VERY SAME TIME Republicans totally abandoned their founding principle of anti-slavery and pro-women's suffrage in order to adopt the principles they DESPISED about the Democrat Party -can only make sense to a fucking liberal. THAT isn't what happened but it is part and parcel of that nice bedtime story Democrats like to tell as they desperately try to re-write their own disgusting history.

Chris you clearly have NO clue what socialism even is if you want to pretend that police and fire departments and public schools are "socialism". No they aren't -they are social contracts. (Aside from which government should not be the education of our citizens business whatsoever. Inevitably control of it is grabbed by those who want to use the system as a political indoctrination center and social engineering instead of just EDUCATING our kids so they can get and hold a job and become productive, contributing members of society. The examples of public schools being used for political indoctrination and social engineering or too numerous to list and anyone with a double digit IQ knows it.)

Social contracts are NOT "socialism". Socialism is a system where the means of production and the distribution of such is "owned" by the community -which in practice is impossible and therefore is actually owned by government.

Police and fire departments don't PRODUCE any goods and therefore are not "owned" by the community. Socialism isn't a community hiring someone to provide a service. Police and firemen are merely HIRED to provide a service.

The fact they have been hired by the community to provide that service doesn't magically turn it into "socialism" any more than electing someone mayor -essentially hiring that person to be mayor -represents socialism. Don't be silly. Also let's not be silly pretending a community can ever own the means of production of some good, ok? It is just a touchy-feely way of denying it is actually government owning it. Oh, always in the NAME of the people -but just try laying claim to your share of it. Under socialism it is always government that owns the means of production and it is always government that regulates it, monitors it, administers it. Not members of the community coming in and doing their time in their jointly owned production of some good -as they would be if it were a community that really owned it and not the government.

That is just one side of socialism which also involves the redistribution of wealth by confiscating it from those who worked to earn and create that wealth in order to hand it over to those who didn't. A lovely formula that encourages a parasitic mentality among citizens instead of one of independence and self-sufficiency. It is one that pits groups of citizens against each other and speeds up the inevitable collapse of the system because socialism and communism both have a built-in fatal flaw.

Let's review a couple of terms. Leftwing extremism is totalitarianism -total state control over the individual who exists as a government owned slave. Rightwing extremism is anarchy -no state control over the individual and pure freedom. Some leftwing extremists have glommed onto the word "anarchist" (and thereby dirtying the word as they did "liberal") but a leftwing anarchist is fake. A leftwing extremist believes in creating dissension, unrest and violence as a political tool to grab greater power -in the belief that when the population becomes frightened by the rising unrest and violence it will demand government "do something" about it, and allow it to grab powers it did not previously have. A leftwing "anarchist" has adopted the dictionary word of the common meaning of "anarchy" which is "chaos" -but rightwing extremism is the political definition of anarchy which is "absence of government". True anarchy is pure freedom -with no government power over the individual, does NOT advocate violence and social unrest but is a belief that man should live in freedom to make of his life what he will for better or ill and come what may. Rightwing anarchists would never publicly demonstrate because that is a means of trying to grab institutionalized power which they reject. Only leftwing extremists believe in the use of creating chaos and violence in furtherance of their political agenda. The founders were near pure anarchists, people who believed in a small, decentralized and WEAK federal government -too weak to turn against its own citizens. That they might end up creating a government that turned on its own citizens was their biggest fear. In fact their first attempt left the federal government so weak it was unable to carry out even the few responsibilities it was given so they had to go back and try again and came up with the Constitution. The word "conservative" derives from the belief a nation should deviate from some document or ideology CONSERVATIVELY and only with great care. A conservative in another country is not the same as an American conservative who think it is our Constitution we should deviate from very conservatively -a conservative in Iran has nothing in common with a US conservative since they believe they should not deviate from their version of Islam. Get that part? American conservatives are not the same as British conservatives or Iranian ones, both of which are using something else than our own Constitution as the thing they do not want to deviate from very much if at all.

American conservatives believe we as a nation, should deviate very little and only with great care from the Constitution -that is the source of their conservatism. American conservatives, who approve of many of the deviations we as a nation have taken from the Constitution -are therefore further to the LEFT than our founders were. Meaning today's conservatives aren't nearly as conservative as our founders were -you can't get more conservative than the people who wrote the thing, right?

Any clue what "American exceptionalism" means? Liberals seem to suffer from this notion it is something said in poor taste, like its bragging or something. When Obama was running last time and was asked about his opinion about "American exceptionalism" he said no doubt England thought it was exceptional too. Which should have been a wake up call for a lot more people than it was. Too many people do not realize it was statements like that one that actually encouraged even more people to wonder about where he was really born. I have no doubt he was born on US soil -but his political beliefs and understanding of US history ABSOLUTELY were NOT.

The US system of government is STILL the only system of government closest to true anarchy than any other system of government on the planet -this is still true even though our government has shifted much, much further to the left than our founders ever wanted and much further to the left than even 50 years ago. There is a REAL lesson to be learned here and one that should NOT be so quickly dismissed and ignored as the left demands we do.

The term is not "bragging" of some sort! American exceptionalism refers to the fact that people in this country live under a system of government that was and still is an exception to the rule among the nations of this planet and of how man has typically existed, suffered and endured in history. If you ever really studied US history you would know what this term meant -and you would have a deep appreciation for what a truly SHOCKING departure our country took from all other nations -and exactly what and how that departure was made that makes this nation the exception to all others on the planet. The US, even though among the youngest of countries on earth -has the longest continuing form of government of any nation on earth. FOR A REASON! Governments collapse when their system fails to satisfy a critical percentage of their population.

Socialist and communist nations aren't the exception to the rule at all. Not only have we have seen one after another come into existence -and fail, but their underlying model is actually a repeat of the old stand-by. Socialism and communism are HISTORICALLY proven FAILED SYSTEMS that fail to satisfy a critical percentage of their own population within a VERY short period of time -about 70-80 years. They have a built-in fatal flaw that guarantees their own collapse and there is no way to avoid that fatal flaw except to refuse to adopt those systems in the first place. I suggest you study world history a lot harder and see if you can figure out what that built-in fatal flaw is! Then come back and explain to everyone here why you and your ilk demand we take this nation down that DOOMED path anyway. Seriously. Which would mean abandoning American exceptionalism and turning it into yet one more known failed system by destroying the most successful system of government on earth -in exchange for one we already know is doomed to fail in a fraction of the time our own has lasted. That could only make sense to a fucking liberal.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I'm preparing myself for something way out of left field from him, like abortion or crime stats.

His post is kind of a waste, since we are talking about liberalism, not the Republican or Democratic parties.

The Southern Dixiecrats of the 1960's were more conservative than the Republicans.

And now who are the inheriters of the bigotry of the Old South? The Republicans.

They hate women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc....

Women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and the rights of working people are all liberal ideas.

And they succeeded because the world is becoming more liberal every day.

Nice try, though.

Still re-writing that history, huh? The southern Democrats broke away to form the segregationist Dixiecrat Party. ANY clue where they went when that party collapsed? They were welcomed back with open arms to the Democrat Party where they remained until the day they died. Very few Dixiecrats did NOT go back to the Democrat Party -and the few who ended up Republican like Strom Thurmond, chose to be independents for years before first RENOUNCING their previous racist beliefs and then becoming Republicans. On top of which you seem to think demographics haven't changed in the south? Are you for real? The south underwent a massive influx of northerners -who were largely Republicans. But this notion that Democrats suddenly abandoned their racist views and the very premise of their party platform AT THE VERY SAME TIME Republicans totally abandoned their founding principle of anti-slavery and pro-women's suffrage in order to adopt the principles they DESPISED about the Democrat Party -can only make sense to a fucking liberal. THAT isn't what happened but it is part and parcel of that nice bedtime story Democrats like to tell as they desperately try to re-write their own disgusting history.

Chris you clearly have NO clue what socialism even is if you want to pretend that police and fire departments and public schools are "socialism". No they aren't -they are social contracts. (Aside from which government should not be the education of our citizens business whatsoever. Inevitably control of it is grabbed by those who want to use the system as a political indoctrination center and social engineering instead of just EDUCATING our kids so they can get and hold a job and become productive, contributing members of society. The examples of public schools being used for political indoctrination and social engineering or too numerous to list and anyone with a double digit IQ knows it.)

Social contracts are NOT "socialism". Socialism is a system where the means of production and the distribution of such is "owned" by the community -which in practice is impossible and therefore is actually owned by government.

Police and fire departments don't PRODUCE any goods and therefore are not "owned" by the community. Socialism isn't a community hiring someone to provide a service. Police and firemen are merely HIRED to provide a service.

The fact they have been hired by the community to provide that service doesn't magically turn it into "socialism" any more than electing someone mayor -essentially hiring that person to be mayor -represents socialism. Don't be silly. Also let's not be silly pretending a community can ever own the means of production of some good, ok? It is just a touchy-feely way of denying it is actually government owning it. Oh, always in the NAME of the people -but just try laying claim to your share of it. Under socialism it is always government that owns the means of production and it is always government that regulates it, monitors it, administers it. Not members of the community coming in and doing their time in their jointly owned production of some good -as they would be if it were a community that really owned it and not the government.

That is just one side of socialism which also involves the redistribution of wealth by confiscating it from those who worked to earn and create that wealth in order to hand it over to those who didn't. A lovely formula that encourages a parasitic mentality among citizens instead of one of independence and self-sufficiency. It is one that pits groups of citizens against each other and speeds up the inevitable collapse of the system because socialism and communism both have a built-in fatal flaw. There is no way to adopt either without that built-in fatal flaw that guarantees it own demise -except to not adopt either in the first place.

Any clue what "American exceptionalism" means? Liberals seem to suffer from this notion it is something said in poor taste, like its bragging or something. When Obama was running last time and was asked about his opinion about "American exceptionalism" he said no doubt England thought it was exceptional too. Which should have been a wake up call for a lot more people than it was. Too many people do not realize it was statements like that one that actually encouraged even more people to wonder about where he was really born. I have no doubt he was born on US soil -but his political beliefs and understanding of US history ABSOLUTELY were NOT.

The US system of government is STILL the only system of government closest to true anarchy than any other system of government on the planet -this is still true even though our government has shifted much, much further to the left than our founders ever wanted and much further to the left than even 50 years ago. There is a REAL lesson to be learned here and one that should NOT be so quickly dismissed and ignored as the left demands we do.

The term is not "bragging" of some sort! American exceptionalism refers to the fact that people in this country live under a system of government that was and still is an exception to the rule among the nations of this planet and of how man has typically existed, suffered and endured in history. If you every really studied US history you would know what this term meant -and you would have a deep appreciation for what a truly SHOCKING departure our country took from all other nations -and exactly what and how that departure was made that makes this nation the exception to all others on the planet. The US, even though among the youngest of countries on earth -has the longest continuing form of government of any nation on earth. FOR A REASON! Governments collapse when their system fails to satisfy a critical percentage of their population.

Socialist and communist nations aren't the exception to the rule at all. Not only have we have seen one after another come into existence -and fail, but their underlying model is actually a repeat of the old stand-by. Socialism and communism are HISTORICALLY proven FAILED SYSTEMS that fail to satisfy a critical percentage of their own population within a VERY short period of time -about 70-80 years. They have a built-in fatal flaw that guarantees their own collapse and there is no way to avoid that fatal flaw except to refuse to adopt those systems in the first place. I suggest you study world history a lot harder and see if you can figure out what that built-in fatal flaw is! Then come back and explain to everyone here why you and your ilk demand we take this nation down that DOOMED path anyway. Seriously. Which means abandoning American exceptionalism and changing the most successful system of government on earth -for one we already know is doomed to fail. That could only make sense to a fucking liberal.

You lie so much..

Yeah all racists were democrats up until the 1980's when they couldn't take the Democrats pandering...

It was only LBJ that said: " I'll have every ****** voting democrat for a century."

Go ahead and waste more of your time..... Your opinion doesn't matter..

Government an anarchy are an oxymoron...

 

[Mr.Nick]

Yes communism and socialism are failed socioeconomic models...

If they weren't then the USSR would still be alive and the Wall would have never fell.

I suppose my opinions are just another brick in the wall...