Charlie Gard has passed

[Carter Malone]

Any thinking and caring person would think that...you have to try

They should have at least been given the option, even if it was a fool's hope.

Ponder it for a minute. Having to BEG for permission to allow your child a shot at new therapy. Wasn't actually a fools hope. At that point, you take the doctor that gives you 20%...

and if you have to beg a profit driven insurance company? get real.

seriously...


and in any event why would you want to torture a being who can neither breathe on his own nor move by forcing extraodinary measures to keep him alive?

You're anti Capitalist rhetoric is bold and intimidating. But the FACT IS --- NO insurance company would ever FORCIBLY DENY YOU the right to pay for and seek Alternate treatment.

I'm not anti-capitalist. that's your wing nut delusion.

now respond to what I said and not to what you made up in your head.

again, do you think a profit driven insurance company is the appropriate arbiter of who should receive health care? they make those decisions ALL THE TIME.

and again, why on earth should a being who can not eat food, cannot breathe and cannot move be kept alive artificially?

Your last line -

Who of us would choose that existence for ourselves?


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[jillian]

They should have at least been given the option, even if it was a fool's hope.

Ponder it for a minute. Having to BEG for permission to allow your child a shot at new therapy. Wasn't actually a fools hope. At that point, you take the doctor that gives you 20%...

and if you have to beg a profit driven insurance company? get real.

seriously...


and in any event why would you want to torture a being who can neither breathe on his own nor move by forcing extraodinary measures to keep him alive?

You're anti Capitalist rhetoric is bold and intimidating. But the FACT IS --- NO insurance company would ever FORCIBLY DENY YOU the right to pay for and seek Alternate treatment.

I'm not anti-capitalist. that's your wing nut delusion.

now respond to what I said and not to what you made up in your head.

again, do you think a profit driven insurance company is the appropriate arbiter of who should receive health care? they make those decisions ALL THE TIME.

and again, why on earth should a being who can not eat food, cannot breathe and cannot move be kept alive artificially?

Your last line -

Who of us would choose that existence for ourselves?


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

we're kinder to our pets than we are to people.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

we're kinder to our pets than we are to people.

Because they're better creatures than many people. Humans can be pretty vile.

 

[flacaltenn]

The left has certainly deflected from the only real issue. People who had the ability to pay for treatment were prohibited from receiving anything but death.

There was not and is not any "treatment".

The US doctors were clear that all they could do was extend his time on a respirator.

Nothing else.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That wasn't true in January thru April.. By June/July, it was too late. Had the NHS not sent this court and tied it up and ORDERED CHARLIE TO DIE in April --- THERE WAS a hefty chance of remission. Actually BETTER than many cancer chemo therapies.

Get your facts straight.

 

[flacaltenn]

Ponder it for a minute. Having to BEG for permission to allow your child a shot at new therapy. Wasn't actually a fools hope. At that point, you take the doctor that gives you 20%...

and if you have to beg a profit driven insurance company? get real.

seriously...


and in any event why would you want to torture a being who can neither breathe on his own nor move by forcing extraodinary measures to keep him alive?

You're anti Capitalist rhetoric is bold and intimidating. But the FACT IS --- NO insurance company would ever FORCIBLY DENY YOU the right to pay for and seek Alternate treatment.

I'm not anti-capitalist. that's your wing nut delusion.

now respond to what I said and not to what you made up in your head.

again, do you think a profit driven insurance company is the appropriate arbiter of who should receive health care? they make those decisions ALL THE TIME.

and again, why on earth should a being who can not eat food, cannot breathe and cannot move be kept alive artificially?

Noise noise noise. NO -- I stand by my answer. A "profit driven" insurance company NEVER prevents personal choices to choose and fund alternative treatments..

You can persist. But you'd just prove the axiom that leftists have no conception of how things actually work..

in other words, you know you're full of it and have no answer.... here's how "things work", wing nut... people can't get treatment without paying for it. insurance company refuses to pay or dumps you when you get sick... no treatment.

for someone as clueless as you, you have a hella lot of stupid assumptions about what others know.

Oh people can get ALL KINDS of treatments without the Insurance Companies paying for it. It just shows up on your bill as "not covered".. They will NEVER TAKE YOU COURT and have the COURT order that you can't. While they pull the plugs on your baby...

THAT is the basis of THIS case we're discussing. What's covered and REIMBURSED on an insurance policy should ALSO BE ------ YOUR CALL. Having the govt DEMAND that you carry coverage you don't need or don't want is also cynical, arrogant and freedom killing..

 

[Coyote]

Understand that by APRIL -- Courts had already RULED not only to deny transfer of care --- BUT they ruled to PULL HIS PLUG.. To kill him back in April... And there were extensions to this. But it took from January to April for fucking Bureaucracy to RULE. And then an appeal to the Intl Courts.

Parents had procured FUNDING and the tactical problems of life flighting over to the US in JANUARY...

Dr Hirano would NOT have allowed that transfer to happen, if he believed it would kill the child or that the child was too far progressed to treat.. IN JANUARY --- when it NEEDED to happen..

Timeline: Parents' battle to save Charlie Gard

The PROCESS killed Charlie and they wanted him DEAD BEFORE April...

No one wanted him dead.

By January they had determined he had deteriorated to far. You are creating unnecessary villains.

 

[Coyote]

The left has certainly deflected from the only real issue. People who had the ability to pay for treatment were prohibited from receiving anything but death.

There was not and is not any "treatment".

The US doctors were clear that all they could do was extend his time on a respirator.

Nothing else.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That wasn't true in January thru April.. By June/July, it was too late. Had the NHS not sent this court and tied it up and ORDERED CHARLIE TO DIE in April --- THERE WAS a hefty chance of remission. Actually BETTER than many cancer chemo therapies.

Get your facts straight.

How do you know there was "hefty chance" of remission?

 

[flacaltenn]

Understand that by APRIL -- Courts had already RULED not only to deny transfer of care --- BUT they ruled to PULL HIS PLUG.. To kill him back in April... And there were extensions to this. But it took from January to April for fucking Bureaucracy to RULE. And then an appeal to the Intl Courts.

Parents had procured FUNDING and the tactical problems of life flighting over to the US in JANUARY...

Dr Hirano would NOT have allowed that transfer to happen, if he believed it would kill the child or that the child was too far progressed to treat.. IN JANUARY --- when it NEEDED to happen..

Timeline: Parents' battle to save Charlie Gard

The PROCESS killed Charlie and they wanted him DEAD BEFORE April...

No one wanted him dead.

By January they had determined he had deteriorated to far. You are creating unnecessary villains.

Oh HELL no. Not in January. BHS decided they were gonna FIGHT IT in January. But statements from Hirano say that by June -- he had been ignored too long..

In April -- the court ordered him DEAD. But that was their attitude ALL ALONG..

 

[Coyote]

Father of a child who Dr Hirano saved from death --- describes the ordeal this way..

US doctor's experimental treatment 'saved my son'

But Mr Estopinan, who has met Charlie's parents and been in contact with them throughout their battle, described the doctor as "an angel" and "a saint".

He told Sky News: "He saved my son and he has saved about 16 or 18 other children around the world with these devastating diseases and he is coming up with new, experimental medications for other neural generative muscular disorders.

"It is unfortunate and regrettable that GOSH decided to fight for Charlie to die in the legal courts in the UK rather than to treat him in the hospital.

"As doctors, everyone would expect they would try to save his life and fight for his life but regrettably GOSH and Charlie's doctors fought for him to die."

He described Professor Hirano as "an incredible... brilliant scientist... and incredible medical doctor and a compassionate father".

He said the professor had "wanted to save" Charlie but that the hospital had "allowed (him) to waste away for eight months", something he described as "shameful" and "despicable".

"We live in 2017," he said.

"This is a tech-advanced society.

"Without insulting anyone, I highly recommend these doctors in the UK to get informed."

16 or 18 children SAVED by cutting edge Med Tech. But not in Britain. They are "plug-pullers" and dawdlers and cynical protectors of the "bottom line" to their POWER to make ALL the life/death decisions..

Same deal as with my Dad. You do it THEIR WAY -- or they let patients die....

The hospital had contacted him in January and he could not even be bothered to make look at Charlie's records...something, I might add that no one else has either.

 

[Synthaholic]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

 

[Synthaholic]

Hopefully The Symbolism of Charlie Gard’s Death as it Relates to Government Healthcare is Not Lost

Hopefully The Symbolism of Charlie Gard’s Death as it Relates to Government Healthcare is Not Lost

Yes, because you wingnuts have to immediately try to score cheap political points. You're disgusting, exploiting this baby's death.

 

[flacaltenn]

The left has certainly deflected from the only real issue. People who had the ability to pay for treatment were prohibited from receiving anything but death.

There was not and is not any "treatment".

The US doctors were clear that all they could do was extend his time on a respirator.

Nothing else.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That wasn't true in January thru April.. By June/July, it was too late. Had the NHS not sent this court and tied it up and ORDERED CHARLIE TO DIE in April --- THERE WAS a hefty chance of remission. Actually BETTER than many cancer chemo therapies.

Get your facts straight.

How do you know there was "hefty chance" of remission?

Because the process actually REMAKES the mitochrondrial tranfers work in creating NEW tissue. And the researchers were seeing up to 50% REMISSION --- not just halting the disease in tissue that was still viable.

The low end/high end given in JANUARY was 15% to 50%.. Read the statement of the guy who had his "dead" child saved by this treatment.

NOBODY is ever "gonna get rich" off of a process that affects such a small percentage. But it's a stepping stone to reaching OTHER gene therapy treatments and THESE Weirder rarer cases could be done completely "gratis"... Because they now can. OR nearly can... And it helps the learning curve between LAB results and actual human trials.

BHS is gonna just close the door on all that. Because they don't want the costs of the Labs, researchers and treatments. It's a political/financial motivation..

 

[Synthaholic]

This will be the future here once government controlled single-payer gets it's tennacles entrenched here.

No one will stop you from buying all the supplemental insurance that you want, pee pants.

 

[flacaltenn]

Father of a child who Dr Hirano saved from death --- describes the ordeal this way..

US doctor's experimental treatment 'saved my son'

But Mr Estopinan, who has met Charlie's parents and been in contact with them throughout their battle, described the doctor as "an angel" and "a saint".

He told Sky News: "He saved my son and he has saved about 16 or 18 other children around the world with these devastating diseases and he is coming up with new, experimental medications for other neural generative muscular disorders.

"It is unfortunate and regrettable that GOSH decided to fight for Charlie to die in the legal courts in the UK rather than to treat him in the hospital.

"As doctors, everyone would expect they would try to save his life and fight for his life but regrettably GOSH and Charlie's doctors fought for him to die."

He described Professor Hirano as "an incredible... brilliant scientist... and incredible medical doctor and a compassionate father".

He said the professor had "wanted to save" Charlie but that the hospital had "allowed (him) to waste away for eight months", something he described as "shameful" and "despicable".

"We live in 2017," he said.

"This is a tech-advanced society.

"Without insulting anyone, I highly recommend these doctors in the UK to get informed."

16 or 18 children SAVED by cutting edge Med Tech. But not in Britain. They are "plug-pullers" and dawdlers and cynical protectors of the "bottom line" to their POWER to make ALL the life/death decisions..

Same deal as with my Dad. You do it THEIR WAY -- or they let patients die....

The hospital had contacted him in January and he could not even be bothered to make look at Charlie's records...something, I might add that no one else has either.

You know what? He had talked to the parents. Gotten access to med records. He gave THEM an assessment and decided NOT to get distracted by the Inquisition and the circus. I don't blame him for that. He's dedicated to saving lives and doing science. NOT a political advocate.

No reason to visit in Jan. It was clear that NHS was taking it to court and blocking it. Tell me... Why should HE enter that useless fight????

 

[flacaltenn]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

Baby was not "suffering". What the hell you talking about? The suffering came in 5 MONTHS after the Brit Govt BLOCKED the transfer of this child to the treatment they had selected.

Govt even PREFERRED he died in April..

 

[flacaltenn]

This will be the future here once government controlled single-payer gets it's tennacles entrenched here.

No one will stop you from buying all the supplemental insurance that you want, pee pants.

Oh hell no.. Single payer will OUTLAW doctors performing procedures that are NOT proscribed the way the GOVT WRITES the reimbursements

It's done in MediCare that way RIGHT now.. That's what killed my father.. You won't find a doctor to do a SPECIAL procedure. Because they won't be reimbursed for any payments on that "event" or "illness"...

 

[Dr Grump]

Noise noise noise. NO -- I stand by my answer. A "profit driven" insurance company NEVER prevents personal choices to choose and fund alternative treatments..

You can persist. But you'd just prove the axiom that leftists have no conception of how things actually work..

And the right's main mantra is "UK health bad, US health good". The main plank from the righties is that the US health system sucks and this is a prime example. All Jillian - and Joe to an extent - are pointing out, if this was the US system he wouldn't have gotten any treatment either...

 

[Dr Grump]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

Baby was not "suffering". What the hell you talking about? The suffering came in 5 MONTHS after the Brit Govt BLOCKED the transfer of this child to the treatment they had selected.

Govt even PREFERRED he died in April..

You haven't a clue when the suffered started or ended. Only the kid did....

 

[flacaltenn]

Noise noise noise. NO -- I stand by my answer. A "profit driven" insurance company NEVER prevents personal choices to choose and fund alternative treatments..

You can persist. But you'd just prove the axiom that leftists have no conception of how things actually work..

And the right's main mantra is "UK health bad, US health good". The main plank from the righties is that the US health system sucks and this is a prime example. All Jillian - and Joe to an extent - are pointing out, if this was the US system he wouldn't have gotten any treatment either...

RIGHT NOW -- because of govt laziness and incompetence and arrogance --- we're about 1 year short of COMPLETE COLLAPSE of our system.. Good job partisans... NOT a good time to compare -- is it really?

 

[flacaltenn]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

Baby was not "suffering". What the hell you talking about? The suffering came in 5 MONTHS after the Brit Govt BLOCKED the transfer of this child to the treatment they had selected.

Govt even PREFERRED he died in April..

You haven't a clue when the suffered started or ended. Only the kid did....

Kid wasn't conscious after about April..