Charlie Gard has passed

[Mindful]

The problem with the NHS? The soft bigotry of low expectations.

The problem with the NHS? The soft bigotry of low expectations. | Spectator Health

 

[koshergrl]

In the UK you can go private if you have the means

And yet they couldn't.

It was never a question of cash. It was about the best outcome for the child. The court stood up for him in a difficult and emotional situation.

In other words, you were lying.
You can't go private, if you have the means. It's about who you know.

Death panels.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

In the UK you can go private if you have the means

And yet they couldn't.

It was never a question of cash. It was about the best outcome for the child. The court stood up for him in a difficult and emotional situation.

In other words, you were lying.
You can't go private, if you have the means. It's about who you know.

Death panels.

Well I have had a ligament fixed privately because my employers insisted. Maybe I was dreaming it ?

 

[badger2]

Post #421 does not answer the obvious question: did Hirano concede to the MRI images or not? Where in msm does it say that Hirano conceded to the MRI evidence? Even if he did, we are going back to the beginning, to the very first MRI to take a closer look, while post #423 tries to establish a difference-in-mutation argument (eyes rolled back in disbelief). If anything, a fundamental question should be what the MRI did to the mutated RRM2B genes. Cough it up, GOSH: when was the first MRI done on Charlie Gard?

 

[badger2]

Because Vatican's children's hospital figures into the story as part of the select few who were in on the details, It would not be too long after Charlie Gard's MRI that both the Pope and Mike Pence knew Charlie would become poster-child for the capitalist church-and-state French kiss, a sacrifice par excellence for msm limelighters and opportunists.

Cough it up, GOSH: did Charlie Gard receive Sevoflurane for his MRI or not?

What reader has a problem in believing that an anesthesiologist could not be on intimate terms with last-rites pimps and opportunists? GOSH is asking us to believe that the MRI had nothing to do with the exacerbation of Charlie Gard's condition? Horse manure.

Sevoflurane Epileptiform EEG
Predicting perioperative venous thromboembolism in Japanese gynecological patients. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[badger2]

Correct abstract #:

Sevoflurane Epileptiform EEG
Influence of the sevoflurane concentration on the occurrence of epileptiform EEG patterns. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[badger2]

Charlie Gard was most likely given sevoflurane. What systerm was in place to ensure that more than one person absolutely knew what the ratio was? Here is a case of sevoflurane's mysterious mechanism of action being used on a rare disease genome. A most suspicious combination, and the administrator of the substance was getting paid to pretend they knew what was going on.

 

[Coyote]

The parents and guardians speak for the rights of those who cannot speak for themselves. Unless you live in a country with socialized medicine then the government and the courts decide. You belong to them. Your child belongs to them. It's not a difficult truth to grasp.

Not always. Sometimes the courts are needed to speak for the voiceless, because what the parents are doing is child abuse. A child isn't property.

In Socialized Medicine, a child is the property of the state. That is blatantly obvious in this case. There was no child abuse, it was exactly the opposite.

That is not the case here. It was a case of medical ethics and the child's interests vs the parents. It has nothing to do with socialized medicine.

Oh it does too, just stop already.

There was no reason those parents were prohibited from using their own funds to pursue help for that child. NONE!!!

No reason except for a political one. They can not tolerate our system possibly being able to help a child that theirs couldn't.

That's totally untrue - they reached out to experts on this, and were willing working on getting a compassionate release in order to use experimental therapy like that when the child deteriorated too much.

Why do folks ignore the facts? Sure there are problems with socialized healthcare but this is not the issue here.

 

[badger2]

We will still question what the MRI did to the RRM2B gene of Charlie Gard. It is not only valid, it is necessary to thwart the overconfidence of medicine in general, especially when it is in copula with the capitalist state and its courts. In this way, the non-law within law can be dealt with in an intelligent, lasting manner for future generations.

A Charlie Gard Page
Ten cases like Charlie Gard’s heard in English courts this year

 

[badger2]

Russell "Bubs" Cruzan III
Michigan baby facing life-threatening disease similar to Charlie Gard's diagnosis

 

[badger2]

We will waste no time in pointing out Russell's temperature connection to Charlie Gard's anaesthesia for MRI. The primitivity of glycine links precisely to the extracellular matrix for malignant hyperthermia.

 

[badger2]

"The domestic courts concluded that it would be lawful for the hospital to withdraw life-sustaining treatment."

Charlie was already a prisoner of the hospital, and could not leave. Beginning with such things as anaesthesia, it cannot be ruled out that it served to exacerbate Charlie's condition. No one in the UK or in this thread can come up with the exact date of Charlie's first MRI? When it comes to the violence of the juridical machine, how many prisoners are there really?

 

[flacaltenn]

It was called key people cover or similar and meant that you got seen when your employer could spare you.
The thing is though these policies only cover you for standard production line conditions.Anything difficult or long term is not covered because there is no profit in it for the insurers.

This sounds NOTHING "private insurance" available to ANY person. Particularly the Self-Employed. It's some sort of separate "labor related" risk pool...

 

[Coyote]

Stop trying to explain that the best interests of the patient is to die. That's ridiculous. Many killers have used that excuse. It doesn't work.

Socialized medicine is all about how many people die. That's success. It's part of utopian philosophy. Medical innovation and extending life is prohibited and that is why Charlie Gard died.

Here's the thing... EVERYBODY DIES.

So when discussing the merits of Socialized medicine vs. Corporate Medicine, let's look at the results.

The UK has a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates. Yes, you might wait longer to see a doctor, but you will get to see one.

And re-reading the stuff posted by Coyote, it wasn't like the NHS wasn't spending shitloads of money on Gard, because they were. A case like this he'd have been cut off by his insurance company a long time ago.

In fact, there's an American baby with a similar defect, and insurance will not pay for the experimental treatment. . 4-month-old Michigan baby diagnosed with condition similar to Charlie Gard

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It was called key people cover or similar and meant that you got seen when your employer could spare you.
The thing is though these policies only cover you for standard production line conditions.Anything difficult or long term is not covered because there is no profit in it for the insurers.

This sounds NOTHING "private insurance" available to ANY person. Particularly the Self-Employed. It's some sort of separate "labor related" risk pool...

Well it is available to anyone including the self employed. I am self employed now but I choose not to take out a policy. I dont need it. There was nothing labour related about it either. Why dont you do a bit of research, you may be surprised. You need to step away from your ideological hang ups.

The NHS has looked after me and my family all our lives. We have been blessed.

 

[PredFan]

Pain? Distress? You don't know that. We have ways to deal with both.

The problem with Charlie was no one could tell. How would he handle a transatlantic flight and the pressures? A lot of questions for a treatment that offered almost a nonexistent chance given the degree of damage already done - brain tissue that badly damaged doesn't regenerate for example and that was in January when he began suffering seizures.

Being in Medicine myself, I've seen brain damages people accomplish amazing things.

The point is that it wasn't the courts decision to make.

Good point----but being in medicine myself----I would say that even with the various manipulations
available----this poor kid was not really going to get anywhere but miserable-----sad but true

You can't say that, you don't know that. The point is still that it isn't the court's decision to make. Or it shouldn't be anyway. Single payer, single decider, and it ain't you.

I based my comment about the kid's future on his DIAGNOSIS-----that's what a diagnosis is for---
it includes a prediction of the future. sad but true

It isn't set in stone dumbass. It's an average or a statistic.

 

[PredFan]

A Socialized Medicine Death Panel killed that child.

No "god" worth following would allow an innocent baby to suffer like this.

Meh who gives a fuck about your irrelevant taunts.

 

[PredFan]

No reason except for a political one. They can not tolerate our system possibly being able to help a child that theirs couldn't.

Or they realized that continuing treatments was just plain old cruel.

I still don't understand why the parents were overridden by the judge.

It couldn't have been about the money, because sufficient funds had been raised to pay for the US trip, and subsequent treatment.

Because as Coyote pointed out, every medical professional who had examined him had determined he had no prognosis for recovery. It wasn't about the money, it was about the cruelty of continuing treatment to make the parents feel better.

That's just stupid nonsense on your part. There was nothing cruel about it.

 

[irosie91]

The problem with Charlie was no one could tell. How would he handle a transatlantic flight and the pressures? A lot of questions for a treatment that offered almost a nonexistent chance given the degree of damage already done - brain tissue that badly damaged doesn't regenerate for example and that was in January when he began suffering seizures.

Being in Medicine myself, I've seen brain damages people accomplish amazing things.

The point is that it wasn't the courts decision to make.

Good point----but being in medicine myself----I would say that even with the various manipulations
available----this poor kid was not really going to get anywhere but miserable-----sad but true

You can't say that, you don't know that. The point is still that it isn't the court's decision to make. Or it shouldn't be anyway. Single payer, single decider, and it ain't you.

I based my comment about the kid's future on his DIAGNOSIS-----that's what a diagnosis is for---
it includes a prediction of the future. sad but true

It isn't set in stone dumbass. It's an average or a statistic.

all of science is a STATISTIC -----it is possible that if a two ton weight falls on your head that STATISTICALLY it will not damage your brain-------but what are the ODDS?

 

[PredFan]

Not always. Sometimes the courts are needed to speak for the voiceless, because what the parents are doing is child abuse. A child isn't property.

In Socialized Medicine, a child is the property of the state. That is blatantly obvious in this case. There was no child abuse, it was exactly the opposite.

That is not the case here. It was a case of medical ethics and the child's interests vs the parents. It has nothing to do with socialized medicine.

Oh it does too, just stop already.

There was no reason those parents were prohibited from using their own funds to pursue help for that child. NONE!!!

No reason except for a political one. They can not tolerate our system possibly being able to help a child that theirs couldn't.

That's totally untrue - they reached out to experts on this, and were willing working on getting a compassionate release in order to use experimental therapy like that when the child deteriorated too much.

Why do folks ignore the facts? Sure there are problems with socialized healthcare but this is not the issue here.

I'm absolutely right. The foctors over here didn't agree that he had deteriorated too far until the end, after the courts took so long to fight the parents. Why did the courts get involved at all? Because in Socialized Medicine the government owns you.And they were not about to let someone go to America, the place that doesn't have socialized medicine and risk the kid surviving.

It's totally political.