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How about we torture no one, and remain true to our national honor, bill of rights, and the geneva convention?
I value the lives of our service personnel. Thus, I do not want my government to torture enemy combatants, because it makes it more likely that OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL will be tortured if they are captured.
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that is simply not true. again, tell that to those who tortured, beheaded all in falluja and elsewhere....you would let thousands die just to stand by your principles of not physically hurting someone....you value life less than i do....people get over torture, you never get those lives back.
The same lame argument over and over. That justifies anything. Locking people away without communications or hearings or trials. Busting into people's homes without a warrant. Locking away family members. Exporting everyone with a certain racial background. Every one of these acts could be justified by your example. And it is what every dictator has used to justify doing these kinds of things.
Who are the "they" who you say won't/didn't fight FOR this country ?They simply do not see terrorism as a threat - they have grown conveniently comfortable in their tirades against Bush, American ,the military, war, etc.
Sadly, another attack will come, and then all of these moral convenience will be stomped into oblivion for a few more years, until the passage of time makes it once again convenient.
I've always said that. if they fought as hard for this country as they did to bring President Bush down I might garner up a little respect for them.. sadly it's not the case.. because they want to be seen as "good" they are willing to sacrifice their children your children and the world's children so the terrorists have already won the battle.. I pity us.
Liberals ?
You are lumping people into imaginary baskets, thinking folks are somehow fundamentally different. Lliberal/Democrats and a Conservative/Republicans can serve, DO serve, right now,
side by side, and each will fight and would kill for one another.
Happens every day, and has happened for the last couple hundred years in the American armed forces.
I served. My parents served. My brother, my son. My uncle died in World War 2 - a liberal democrat, decorated for his bravery, posthumously. He killed alot of enemy soldiers before he was killed.
Is that what you are meowing about?
You been cowerring in Rush Limbaugh's cave too long.
Crawl out, get some air, see what is really happeneing in the world.
that is simply not true. again, tell that to those who tortured, beheaded all in falluja and elsewhere....you would let thousands die just to stand by your principles of not physically hurting someone....you value life less than i do....people get over torture, you never get those lives back.
I'm not a pacifist. You've clearly misunderstood me.
I'm opposed to state-sanctioned torture by our government for several reasons. First, it violates the core principles of our country. Secondly, I believe that it poses a serious risk to the citizens of this country to allow government agencies to engage in these acts with impunity. Thirdly, these actions jeopardize our international standing and the safety of our military personnel in time of war.
I have no problems with killing bad guys in combat. I have a huge problem with torturing a suspect that is incapacitated and in custody. Those are vastly different scenarios.
Are you calling me a lefty? HILARIOUS.
well if you aren't then choose. choose for your daughter, you gonna fight to win or does the Taliban get her? which?
They simply do not see terrorism as a threat - they have grown conveniently comfortable in their tirades against Bush, American ,the military, war, etc.
Sadly, another attack will come, and then all of these moral convenience will be stomped into oblivion for a few more years, until the passage of time makes it once again convenient.
So, in short:
I'm pro-violence, anti-torture. Try to wrap your pea-brain around that one. Then call me a dirty liberal and smack my ass. I like that.
Therefore you would support the police torturing Americans accused of crimes if it might prevent a death.
If you say otherwise you are lying.
the difference here, since you haven't figured it out, is that our laws protect our citizens. And not people from a foreign nation trying to kill Americans.
If you base your moral compass upon legal technicalities that's up to you.
Correct me if I mistate your position, but you generally support torture because it could lead to information. But you generally don't support torture of Americans even though it could lead to information. Aside from laws, why is it OK to torture non-Americans but not Americans? Just because you are an American? That means its OK for other nations to torture Americans who travel there?
And there are laws against torturing people from foreign nations.
Nothing like watching an idiot flop around on the tv like a fish outta water eh?
Nothing like watching an idiot flop around on the tv like a fish outta water eh?
No, the opposite. It wasn't like he ever showed remose that his government ran up $5 trillion in debt after inherited a surplus. Or that his government borrowed $1.4 trillion in the last 12 months before Obama took office. Or that the economy Obama inhereted was tanking fast.
It was like he was Mr. Budget Hawk coming from a government that had closely toed the line on the debt, and now all of a sudden the deficit is a big concern since Obama took office.
Fucking hypocrite is what he is.
Holder was on the news this morning flapping his jaws about following the law regarding this matter. If he pursues it, I hope the defense will get to the bottom of this as Clinton stated in the article that started this thread. If I were the defense, topping my witness list would be: George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the 107th and 108th Congresses (as hostiles).
I don't give a shit about the suffering of some towelhead in Iraq. I give a shit about the standing of this country, about our credibility as a country, and about the safety of our military personnel.
Are you really so fucking stupid that you don't realize that your entire argument is based upon fallacious reasoning (emotional appeal)?
You don't understand the difference between war casualties and state-sanctioned torture? I'm not sure I can help you if that is beyond your grasp.
NObama said:Clinton and EVERY other Loon in Congress had an opportunity to LOUDLY protest what the CIA was doing when they were doing it. So why didn't they make a big deal of it then, eh?
I've always said that. if they fought as hard for this country as they did to bring President Bush down I might garner up a little respect for them.. sadly it's not the case..
I voted for W, you ignorant twit. TWICE. That doesn't mean he didn't break the law.
the difference here, since you haven't figured it out, is that our laws protect our citizens. And not people from a foreign nation trying to kill Americans.
If you base your moral compass upon legal technicalities that's up to you.
Correct me if I mistate your position, but you generally support torture because it could lead to information. But you generally don't support torture of Americans even though it could lead to information. Aside from laws, why is it OK to torture non-Americans but not Americans? Just because you are an American? That means its OK for other nations to torture Americans who travel there?
And there are laws against torturing people from foreign nations.
Our system is built on technicalities. And if you read the new york times description of the so called torture techniques you might realize that it was not really physical, pain inflicting torture. you know like ripping out fingernails, or sawing off one's head while he is still conscious, or bamboo under the fingernails or breaking bones or beatings etc etc
Interrogation Techniques - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com
sorry but keeping someone awake is not torture.
making a room hot or cold is not torture
making someone sit in an uncomfortable chair is no torture
stripping someone naked and keeping them warm is not torture
feeding someone tasteless meals is not torture
The water boarding was done in a very controlled manner where the physical safety of the terrorist was never in jeopardy.
And as far as your question about Americans in other countries. if they were there to commit mass murder via terrorist acts, then they deserve what they get.
If you base your moral compass upon legal technicalities that's up to you.
Correct me if I mistate your position, but you generally support torture because it could lead to information. But you generally don't support torture of Americans even though it could lead to information. Aside from laws, why is it OK to torture non-Americans but not Americans? Just because you are an American? That means its OK for other nations to torture Americans who travel there?
And there are laws against torturing people from foreign nations.
Our system is built on technicalities. And if you read the new york times description of the so called torture techniques you might realize that it was not really physical, pain inflicting torture. you know like ripping out fingernails, or sawing off one's head while he is still conscious, or bamboo under the fingernails or breaking bones or beatings etc etc
Interrogation Techniques - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com
sorry but keeping someone awake is not torture.
making a room hot or cold is not torture
making someone sit in an uncomfortable chair is no torture
stripping someone naked and keeping them warm is not torture
feeding someone tasteless meals is not torture
I'm not aware any of those were ever considered torture. But I don't know.
The water boarding was done in a very controlled manner where the physical safety of the terrorist was never in jeopardy.
Tell us about your personal observations of the interrogations.
The CIA memos which tried justify waterboarding say otherwise.
And so why did we prosecute Japanese as war criminals for doing it.
And as far as your question about Americans in other countries. if they were there to commit mass murder via terrorist acts, then they deserve what they get.
And that's exactly what the claim would be against US soldiers.
They simply do not see terrorism as a threat - they have grown conveniently comfortable in their tirades against Bush, American ,the military, war, etc.
Sadly, another attack will come, and then all of these moral convenience will be stomped into oblivion for a few more years, until the passage of time makes it once again convenient.
Now you just stepped on your dick there fruity. I fully understand the dangers of terrorism. I have fought in a war against the Taliban and voted for Bush not once, but twice. I served in the military and am quite vocal on here in defense of those who have as well.
You are the problem with conservatism. You are the guy that makes teh rest of us look dumb. Go worship at the alter of Limbaugh and shut the fuck up.
So, Newby, you would be okay with other countries waterboarding our military personnel if they were captured POWs?
