Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Osomir]

Vomiting up a bunch of google search results isn't a coherent argument there pumpkin.

 

[Roudy]

Vomiting up a bunch of google search results isn't a coherent argument there pumpkin.

NY Times, RAWA (Afghan rights website), Pew Global Attitudes Project, Wall Street Journal, BBC News, The Guardian, are not "vomit", fruit pie.

 

[GHook93]

It won't change in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Uzbeckistan, Kosovom Iran, Egypt, Libya or any of the other Muslim shit holes, because Mohammad preserve pedophillia as the muslim man's birth right!

Yemen is actually debating a law in its legislature that would set the legal age for marriage at 17.

The legal age for marriage in Egypt and Libya is 18 by the way. Higher than many of our states. Uzbekistan is 17.

You fail dude! A law is only a law if it's enforced (kind of like out immigration laws)!

?Some girls have been married 60 times by the time they turn 18?
When young girls are sold into marriage, as 38,000 are every day, they can expect a life with no education and few opportunities, little public autonomy outside of their adult husband's control and an increased risk of death from pregnancy or childbirth, which are the number one killer of girls age 15 to 18 in the developing world. One in seven girls born in the developing world is married by age 15, usually sold by her family.

But some girls who grow up in Egypt's poor rural communities face an even scarier sort of child marriage: the temporary kind. Sex tourism to Egypt tends to spike in the summer, when wealthy men from Gulf countries flood into Egypt and thousands of underage girls are sold by their parents into temporary "marriages," according to a story by Inter Press Service.

Egypt's illegal child sex tourism trade appears to have put a regional-friendly spin on the practice by portraying the buying and selling of children as a form of marriage, thus giving them a thin veneer of religious acceptability by circumventing Islamic rules against pre-marital sex. (Despite a 2008 law banning child marriages, enforcement is thought to be low and an Egyptian official told the Inter Press Service that's it's nearly ceased since the chaos of the 2011 revolution.) Child marriages are, after all, somewhat common in Arab countries, although not nearly as common as in neighboring regions. And such child marriages often involve "dowries" that human trafficking activists say are akin to a purchase price.

"Some girls have been married 60 times by the time they turn 18,” an Egyptian government official who works on the issue told Inter Press Service. "Most ‘marriages’ last for just a couple of days or weeks."

75 percent of respondents in surveyed rural communities knew girls who were involved in the trade and that most believed that rate was increasing. It estimated that the vast majority of the buyers came from Gulf countries, with 81 percent from Saudi Arabia, 10 percent from the United Arab Emirate and 4 percent from Kuwait.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...d-brides-in-Egypt-rented-for-summer-1872.html
Egyptian fixers arrange marriages between girls as young as 11 and much older Gulf men, reported the Inter Press Service News Agency (IPS) recently.

Egypt’s sex tourism industry is ongoing despite a 2008 law banning child marriages.

Also Islam’s ban on pre-marital sex is being undermined by the phenomenon of quick marriages, sometimes lasting only one day.

The sham nuptials last as little as a few hours or as much as a couple of years, with the deals hatched by a myriad of “marriage brokers.” Many brokers also offer a second service of delivery,” with village girls as young as 11 brought by the brokers to the Arab tourists’ hotel or rented flat for selection, reported the IPS.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

You think he went ahead and had her at 6?

 

[Roudy]

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

You think he went ahead and had her at 6?

Well to be fair, when you speak with a Muslim, they will tell you even though Aisha was 6 or 8 when Mohammad raped her, she had the "maturity" of a 30 year old. The evidence for that is, she fell in love and adored Mohammad even before she was 6.

 

[Osomir]

You fail dude! A law is only a law if it's enforced (kind of like out immigration laws)!

How do I fail? I very clearly listed weak governmental institutions (which includes governmental legal reach) as a significant factor in child marriage.

 

[Osomir]

You think he went ahead and had her at 6?

No, most of the biographies place her as much older than 9. you'd be more so looking in the mid to late teens at the least.

 

[Osomir]

Well to be fair, when you speak with a Muslim, they will tell you even though Aisha was 6 or 8 when Mohammad raped her, she had the "maturity" of a 30 year old. The evidence for that is, she fell in love and adored Mohammad even before she was 6.

They weren't even in the same geographic area when they were married, and you're being dishonest again going back to eight simply in order to link it to this incident in Yemen.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, most of the biographies place her as much older than 9. you'd be more so looking in the mid to late teens at the least.

Sure.

 

[Osomir]

No, most of the biographies place her as much older than 9. you'd be more so looking in the mid to late teens at the least.

Sure.

Dates to keep in mind: Aisha was married in 622; the marriage was consummated three years later.


Hadith:

Both the Bukhari and the Muslim hadith collections place Aisha both at 9 and at much older than 9 when the marriage was consummated.

Both Muslim and Bukhari state that Aisha rode with Muhammad in the Battle of Badr in 624. We see this in the Muslim Hadith collection Book 019, Number 4472. And from Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 131 we know she was at the battle of Uhud. Badr especially started off as raids and weren't planned. In order to go on a raid or to ride with the men you must be at least 15 years old, so claim both Muslim and Bukhari collections. These can be found in Bukahri Volume 5, Book 59, Number 423 and in Muslim Book 019, Number 4466. Both show that there were age restrictions when it came to riding with the parties. If this is the case, then Aisha must have been at least 13 years old when she was married in 622.

And as I already posted in this thread:

Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 399 states that during the revelation of the 54th Quranic verse Aisha makes the statement that the revelation came when she was a playful little girl. The 54th Quranic sura occured no less than 9 years before 622. Which would have made her older than 9 upon marriage and even older upon consummation.


So the hadiths that you guys are relying on contradict themselves (and no, unlike what Roudy claimed, they are not part of the Quran).

Biographies

Hisham and Tabari (authors of some of the earliest biographies we have) list Aisha's age as older as well (and Tabari contradicts himself too)

Tabari says that Aisha was already at a marriagable age in the year 615 before Bakr's immigration to Ethiopia (which would have meant that she had already reached puberty). This means that she would still be of suitable age in 622 when she married Muhammad.

Tabari also said that Aisha converted to Islam before Umar did, which means that Aisha had to have been old enough to make such a desicion on her own (aka she was, at the very least, old enough to talk) around 610 a fact which Hishram supports. Even if she was alive at all in 610 it would have made her older than 9 by 622 and even older when the marriage was consummated.

Hisham states that Aisha was born before the year 610. Which, at the very least, would have made her twelve in 622 when she was married, and 15 when it was consummated. Once again, this is the VERY LEAST age she could have been according to the statement.

 

[Osomir]

Like I said, the only reason to believe that she was 9 is if you hold the specific hadith's in question to be undeniable cannon (and some Muslims absolutely do), but as non-Sunni Muslims there is no reason for us to do so. In fact, in terms of historiography it would be very poor practice to stick to such a hard age given the discrepancies within the historical accounts.

 

[Osomir]

I'm also curious if any of you have ever actually worked in the area of women's rights before, and have ever worked on this issue specifically?

 

[Coyote]

These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal" articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of child marriage:

Islamists are considered Islamic extremists aren't they?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Like I said, the only reason to believe that she was 9 is if you hold the specific hadith's in question to be undeniable cannon (and some Muslims absolutely do), but as non-Sunni Muslims there is no reason for us to do so. In fact, in terms of historiography it would be very poor practice to stick to such a hard age given the discrepancies within the historical accounts.

I'm not a Muslim at all. Muhammad was a violent warlord who used murder, theft, and rape as the fuel for his war machine. The lust for little girls is entirely consistent with the personality of violent and evil men such as Muhammad. It is also entirely consistent for Muslims to fabricate tales to cover for embarrassing facts. In the end, it is of little consequence, Muhammad was a murdering scumbag regardless of what age Aisha was when he tapped her.

 

[Osomir]

I'm not a Muslim at all. Muhammad was a violent warlord who used murder, theft, and rape as the fuel for his war machine. The lust for little girls is entirely consistent with the personality of violent and evil men such as Muhammad. It is also entirely consistent for Muslims to fabricate tales to cover for embarrassing facts. In the end, it is of little consequence, Muhammad was a murdering scumbag regardless of what age Aisha was when he tapped her.

It doesn't really bother me what you think of Muhammad so go nuts I guess. Have you ever actually read a single biography of him though?

 

[Uncensored2008]

It doesn't really bother me what you think of Muhammad so go nuts I guess. Have you ever actually read a single biography of him though?

Several.

In real life, Muhammad was a great deal like Genghis Khan, and nothing at all like the Jesus myth.

 

[Sunshine]

These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal" articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of child marriage:

Islamists are considered Islamic extremists aren't they?

Coy dog. Give up the semantics. You aren't good at it.

Islamist - definition of Islamist by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Osomir]

In real life, Muhammad was a great deal like Genghis Khan, and nothing at all like the Jesus myth.

Then how did you not know about the biographical discrepancies regarding the age of Aisha?

I agree he wasn't the same as Jesus, He didn't have the luxury of being born within a stable empire as Jesus did, but the notion of him being like Genghis Khan is pretty laughable, particularly when it came to the taking of Mecca.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Then how did you not know about the biographical discrepancies regarding the age of Aisha?

I agree he wasn't the same as Jesus, He didn't have the luxury of being born within a stable empire as Jesus did, but the notion of him being like Genghis Khan is pretty laughable, particularly when it came to the taking of Mecca.

Yawn;

A brutal warlord that ravished the land, murdering all who failed to bow before him, and many who did. His men fought for the promise of booty, both in gold and in women.

 

[Osomir]

A brutal warlord that ravished the land, murdering all who failed to bow before him, and many who did. His men fought for the promise of booty, both in gold and in women.

Doesn't really bother me how you want to view him. But once again I am rather curious how you could have read several biographies of him and not known about the age discrepancies when it came to Aisha.