China keeps ramming Philippines ships

[Harpy Eagle]

Try reading history in general, where all larger nations try to influence events in other nations to suit their own interests.

But it's only bad when we do it, right?

Nope, it is bad when anyone does it. But I am only a citizen of this country so I can only speak to its action.

But you are correct, there is a long history of larger nations using smaller ones for our own good and not theirs.

This is why these nations are starting to band together to put an end to the endless cycle of superpowers bullying the world.

It is something anyone that actually likes freedom should support.

 

[martybegan]

Nope, it is bad when anyone does it. But I am only a citizen of this country so I can only speak to its action.

But you are correct, there is a long history of larger nations using smaller ones for our own good and not theirs.

This is why these nations are starting to band together to put an end to the endless cycle of superpowers bullying the world.

It is something anyone that actually likes freedom should support.

And then they become the "bullies"

Pax Americana is one of the most benign hegemonies out there, and Pax Brittanica was a close second.

Read some alt history about say the Soviets winning the Cold War, or the Axis winning WWII to get modern examples of truly repressive world empires.

 

[Unkotare]

.....

Pax Americana is one of the most benign hegemonies out there, and Pax Brittanica was a close second.
.....

The British were nothing like "benign."

 

[martybegan]

The British were nothing like "benign."
View attachment 1023725

Compared to the Belgians at the same time, The Spanish and the Portuguese in South America a century or two earlier, and the Huns in times past?

I would say yes.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And then they become the "bullies"

Pax Americana is one of the most benign hegemonies out there, and Pax Brittanica was a close second.

Read some alt history about say the Soviets winning the Cold War, or the Axis winning WWII to get modern examples of truly repressive world empires.

You want me to read fake history to show that we are not all that bad!

 

[martybegan]

You want me to read fake history to show that we are not all that bad!

I gave other real life examples from the past in another response.

Alt history, not fake history. Like Sci-fi it as a story to tell.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I gave other real life examples from the past in another response.

Alt history, not fake history. Like Sci-fi it as a story to tell.

Yes, things could have been much worse, but that does not excuse the shit the US pulled in the name of "Freedom" or "fighting the Commies".

We should be able to look back on our history and go "yeah, that was not our finest hour"....but doing so gets one attacked and accused of being a commie lover.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, things could have been much worse, but that does not excuse the shit the US pulled in the name of "Freedom" or "fighting the Commies".

We should be able to look back on our history and go "yeah, that was not our finest hour"....but doing so gets one attacked and accused of being a commie lover.

War is hell, and the Cold war was a war. We fought for our own interests.

Looking back is one things, pretending that us behaving like angels wouldn't have resulted in us getting our asses kicked is the problem.

Having a higher bar for us vs. our opponents is a problem as well, and expecting us to win playing by some made up rules while the other side doesn't have to.

It's why we have shit like Hamas and Hezbollah these days.

 

[Unkotare]

Compared to the Belgians at the same time...

Is that your standard for "benign"?

 

[martybegan]

Is that your standard for "benign"?

Seems pretty benign to me. Ask the Chinese what they think of Japanese occupation during the 30's and 40's, and compare it to American occupation of Japan in the 40's and 50's.

Or ask the Germans whos zones were preferrable when Germany was still in 4 parts.

 

[ESay]

What relations?

China bullying smaller countries within the smaller countries territorial waters?

Ramming Philippine ships?

Threatening Taiwan with invasion?

Not a business for anyone located a thousand miles away from its shores. America is bullying Cuba for decades. Will you be okay if China sends their fleet through a waterway between Cuba and Florida, putting its permanent bases there?

Make good relations with counteris that is near your, and stop sticking your nose where you don't belong. You suck bigly in that.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

War is hell, and the Cold war was a war. We fought for our own interests.

Looking back is one things, pretending that us behaving like angels wouldn't have resulted in us getting our asses kicked is the problem.

Having a higher bar for us vs. our opponents is a problem as well, and expecting us to win playing by some made up rules while the other side doesn't have to.

It's why we have shit like Hamas and Hezbollah these days.

It is good you can admit that we are no more noble or good than anyone else.

Times are changing, the world has a chance to move on without a single superpower, you should support that as the US days at the top of the heap are coming to a close.

 

[martybegan]

It is good you can admit that we are no more noble or good than anyone else.

Times are changing, the world has a chance to move on without a single superpower, you should support that as the US days at the top of the heap are coming to a close.

Actually we are, but it's a matter of degree, not of magnitude. I am a believer in American exceptionalism, not American perfection.

And when you get the next superpower that far more brutish than the US ever was, you will wonder what happened.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Actually we are, but it's a matter of degree, not of magnitude. I am a believer in American exceptionalism, not American perfection.

I used to buy into the story of American exceptionalism, then I started looking closer at our actions and just do not buy it any longer

And when you get the next superpower that far more brutish than the US ever was, you will wonder what happened.

There does not need to be another one, and the US on our way down from the peak could help to ensure there is not. But instead we will go out shooting, almost ensuring that there is

 

[martybegan]

I used to buy into the story of American exceptionalism, then I started looking closer at our actions and just do not buy it any longer



There does not need to be another one, and the US on our way down from the peak could help to ensure there is not. But instead we will go out shooting, almost ensuring that there is

Just some more self hating americanism.

The system tends to create another one, and that is the pattern for the past few centuries.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Just some more self hating americanism.

It is not hate to recognize flaws and go "yep, that was not a great thing to have done"

The system tends to create another one, and that is the pattern for the past few centuries.

The world has changed a lot over those centuries. It no longer takes weeks for news to get around the world or months to get troops around the world.

With the click of a mouse I can find out what is happening in the far reaches of the world.

Quit living in the past and look forward to the future

 

[martybegan]

It is not hate to recognize flaws and go "yep, that was not a great thing to have done"



The world has changed a lot over those centuries. It no longer takes weeks for news to get around the world or months to get troops around the world.

With the click of a mouse I can find out what is happening in the far reaches of the world.

Quit living in the past and look forward to the future

It's stupidity to harp on the flaws and pretend that we could be "perfect" by your standards and still not lose.

Information and application of force and will are two different things.

So what if you can know Houthis attacked 4 of our ships from your couch, considering you aren't the one responsible for dealing with it.

 

[JoeB131]

What relations?

China bullying smaller countries within the smaller countries territorial waters?

Ramming Philippine ships?

Threatening Taiwan with invasion?

Sounds like a local problem, not something that concerns the US.

THEY ARE SMALL ISLANDS NO ONE LIVES ON.

This is not worth a war.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It's stupidity to harp on the flaws and pretend that we could be "perfect" by your standards and still not lose.

never asked for perfection. Just some basic morals

Information and application of force and will are two different things.

Indeed, but having the first makes the 2nd easier

So what if you can know Houthis attacked 4 of our ships from your couch, considering you aren't the one responsible for dealing with it.

True, I am not. But the people that are getting that information in real-time makes all the difference.

It is not about me.

 

[martybegan]

never asked for perfection. Just some basic morals



Indeed, but having the first makes the 2nd easier



True, I am not. But the people that are getting that information in real-time makes all the difference.

It is not about me.

We have plenty of morals, often far more than the people opposing us.

And yet knowing from half a world away doesn't mean shit if you can't act on it in the area in question. hence the need for a blue water navy by the US.