China keeps ramming Philippines ships

[martybegan]

Have you never been to Italy?

They are more the remnants of the Papal States than the Roman Empire.

 

[martybegan]

Um, yeah, it's pretty important that we respect international borders.

Until we have a dispute with someone, then we go running to them.


I kind of don't have to.

Here's the thing, Chamberlain walked away from Munich thinking he got a pretty good deal, while Hitler was disappointed, because he really WANTED a war with Czechoslovakia. Hitler won out in the long run because the Hungarians and Slovaks didn't want to be ruled by Prague, either. But instead of getting all of Czechoslovakia like he wanted, he only ended up with the Sudetenland. Hungary got Subcarpathia, Slovakia got independence, and Bohemia became a German protectorate. Even Poland snagged a chunk of Czechslovakia.

None of this has anything to so with avoiding a war over the Spratleys, Islands where no one actually lives and there's barely enough land to stand on.

Hell, the Phillippines didn't even make a claim to the Spratleys until 1956.

Except our own of course...you walked into that one dippy.

Meh

And then he got the rest through war, are you really this retarded?

It. Has. Oil. You. Fucking. Dunderhead.

 

[ESay]

We are the equivalent of those 100 navies, and we benefit the most in the world from free trade via the oceans.

The British did if for a century or so, now its our turn.

It is not free trade. It is trade that based on the US imposed rules and intimidation. Where is free trade with Cuba or Venezuela or Iran or the Gaza Strip or Russia? The US Navy has only one role - projection of force and keeping American domination in the world trade sustaining a status of the dollar.

But the Colossus has a clay frame. He is being embarrassed by a bunch of 'camel herders' who are able to disrupt one of the main sea trade routes.

 

[Unkotare]

Biden is a worthless pustule.


I'd go down there and start ramming all of their ships.

Hop in your rowboat and go for it.

 

[martybegan]

It is not free trade. It is trade that based on the US imposed rules and intimidation. Where is free trade with Cuba or Venezuela or Iran or the Gaza Strip or Russia? The US Navy has only one role - projection of force and keeping American domination in the world trade sustaining a status of the dollar.

But the Colossus has a clay frame. He is being embarrassed by a bunch of 'camel herders' who are able to disrupt one of the main sea trade routes.

All those countries are run by assholes. Fuck them.

Keep hoping for the downfall of America, dipshit, you probably won't like what replaces it.

 

[JoeB131]

Except our own of course...you walked into that one dippy.

I wasn't aware that people coming in to clean toilets and pick lettuce was the same as an invading foreign army. But, hey, when dealing with racists, logic and reason aren't expected.

And then he got the rest through war, are you really this retarded?

Which makes your comparison to China kind of stupid. China hasn't been at war with anyone since 1979. The Spratleys aren't the Sudetenland nor the Danzig Corridor.

The stupidity of the war happened because Chamberlain was embarrassed by how Czechoslovakia folded like a cheap suit, and wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check on the Danzig Corridor. that caused Hitler to ally with Stalin and war broke out.

 

[martybegan]

I wasn't aware that people coming in to clean toilets and pick lettuce was the same as an invading foreign army. But, hey, when dealing with racists, logic and reason aren't expected.



Which makes your comparison to China kind of stupid. China hasn't been at war with anyone since 1979. The Spratleys aren't the Sudetenland nor the Danzig Corridor.

The stupidity of the war happened because Chamberlain was embarrassed by how Czechoslovakia folded like a cheap suit, and wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check on the Danzig Corridor. that caused Hitler to ally with Stalin and war broke out.

And rape, and murder, and claim benefits.

They are for the countries involved in the dispute.

The driving force at Munich was the French, they had not stomach for the war. Chamberlain got the blame but the sad state of the French Army is what caused it to happen.

 

[JoeB131]

And rape, and murder, and claim benefits.

Most undocumented immigrants don't do that. In fact, they commit LESS crime than people who are born here.

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

Understandable, when even a minor infraction can get you deported.

They are for the countries involved in the dispute.

You mean countries that didn't start making claims on these Islands until the 1950s?

The driving force at Munich was the French, they had not stomach for the war. Chamberlain got the blame but the sad state of the French Army is what caused it to happen.

When I was in college, I encountered some Commie Students who INSISTED that the goal at Munich was to set Germany and Russia against each other. Keep in mind, Stalin was not invited to Munich and the USSR had a treaty with Czechoslovakia that only kicked in if France also declared war on Germany.

I don't think this was the case. I think the real problem was that with Most of the population of Czechoslovakia (Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks) not wanting to be part of the country AND the fact Germany already had them surrounded on three sides after the union with Austria, They knew the position of the Benes government was untennable.

I would also take the position that promising the Polish Colonels that they would go to war when they weren't in a position to do so made matters worse (unless my commie classmates were right and the goal was always to get Hitler and Stalin to fight)

Of course, none of this has anything to do with China's perfectly legitimate claim to the Spratly and Paracel Islands, which they have had a claim to since the Ming Dynasty.

 

[ESay]

All those countries are run by assholes. Fuck them.

Keep hoping for the downfall of America, dipshit, you probably won't like what replaces it.

I just got tired of that meaningless babbling here and there about freedom, free trade, international law etc, when nobody in reality cares about these things. Or when they are exploited in a shameless way.

I don't wish America bad in any way. But heck, if your main export goods are global insecurity and projection of force, be ready to hear 'fuck off' more and more often.

 

[martybegan]

Most undocumented immigrants don't do that. In fact, they commit LESS crime than people who are born here.

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

Understandable, when even a minor infraction can get you deported.



You mean countries that didn't start making claims on these Islands until the 1950s?



When I was in college, I encountered some Commie Students who INSISTED that the goal at Munich was to set Germany and Russia against each other. Keep in mind, Stalin was not invited to Munich and the USSR had a treaty with Czechoslovakia that only kicked in if France also declared war on Germany.

I don't think this was the case. I think the real problem was that with Most of the population of Czechoslovakia (Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks) not wanting to be part of the country AND the fact Germany already had them surrounded on three sides after the union with Austria, They knew the position of the Benes government was untennable.

I would also take the position that promising the Polish Colonels that they would go to war when they weren't in a position to do so made matters worse (unless my commie classmates were right and the goal was always to get Hitler and Stalin to fight)

Of course, none of this has anything to do with China's perfectly legitimate claim to the Spratly and Paracel Islands, which they have had a claim to since the Ming Dynasty.

Or the commit their crimes against other undocumented people who don't report it. Also, they already committed a crime, they are here illegally.

What does that have to do with it?

What they knew was they didn't want to start a war only Germany wanted, and they were gullible enough to believe Hitler would stop at the Sudetenland.

LOL you are going back to the Mings to validate your Chi Comm dick sucking?

 

[martybegan]

I just got tired of that meaningless babbling here and there about freedom, free trade, international law etc, when nobody in reality cares about these things. Or when they are exploited in a shameless way.

I don't wish America bad in any way. But heck, if your main export goods are global insecurity and projection of force, be ready to hear 'fuck off' more and more often.

Those are ideals, and are better ones than the countries you listed have.

LOL, remove a benign global power like the US from the world and you think nothing worse would replace it?

 

[JoeB131]

Or the commit their crimes against other undocumented people who don't report it. Also, they already committed a crime, they are here illegally.

What does that have to do with it?

giving context on alternative historical theories.

What they knew was they didn't want to start a war only Germany wanted, and they were gullible enough to believe Hitler would stop at the Sudetenland.

Or they were manipulating events to get Germany to take out Stalin, who the west was a lot more afraid of up until 1940. As you say, there were a lot of points that they could have challenged Hitler.

Including
Rearming the Rhineland
Building Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine beyond Versailles limits
Annexing Austria
Annexing the Sudetenland
Dismembering the rest of Czechoslovakia through the Vienna Awards.

The thing about Fascism in the 1930's is that a lot of people in the west had no problem with it. As long as big corporations got to still do business and they weren't killing the rich to redistribute their wealth, they were fine with Hitler and Mussolini and gave them a lot of leeway. That bastard, Stalin, though. He was going to take rich people's stuff.

LOL you are going back to the Mings to validate your Chi Comm dick sucking?

well, let's look at that.
The Ming Claimed sovereignty
The Qing claimed Sovereignty
The Republic of China claimed sovereignty
and the PRC has claimed sovereignty.

Seems like those are their islands.

 

[ESay]

Those are ideals, and are better ones than the countries you listed have.

LOL, remove a benign global power like the US from the world and you think nothing worse would replace it?

These ideals are exploited for the few at the expense of the others.

I prefer a multi-polar world with strong regional blocs.

 

[martybegan]

giving context on alternative historical theories.




Or they were manipulating events to get Germany to take out Stalin, who the west was a lot more afraid of up until 1940. As you say, there were a lot of points that they could have challenged Hitler.

Including
Rearming the Rhineland
Building Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine beyond Versailles limits
Annexing Austria
Annexing the Sudetenland
Dismembering the rest of Czechoslovakia through the Vienna Awards.

The thing about Fascism in the 1930's is that a lot of people in the west had no problem with it. As long as big corporations got to still do business and they weren't killing the rich to redistribute their wealth, they were fine with Hitler and Mussolini and gave them a lot of leeway. That bastard, Stalin, though. He was going to take rich people's stuff.






well, let's look at that.
The Ming Claimed sovereignty
The Qing claimed Sovereignty
The Republic of China claimed sovereignty
and the PRC has claimed sovereignty.

Seems like those are their islands.

At the time Stalin was the one actively killing off his own people, that kind of makes people nervous about their own communist parties in their own countries, all of which took orders from Moscow.


The Ming and others claimed the Mandate of Heaven, they weren't concerned with territorial specific claims.

 

[martybegan]

These ideals are exploited for the few at the expense of the others.

I prefer a multi-polar world with strong regional blocs.

Which ends up being warlord fiefdoms run by whoever has the strongest will to fuck over those passing through.

 

[JoeB131]

At the time Stalin was the one actively killing off his own people, that kind of makes people nervous about their own communist parties in their own countries, all of which took orders from Moscow.

So let's be honest, the west tolerated Hitler because he was a counter to Stalin... until he turned on them.

This sounds depressingly familiar, that the people we supported end up turning on us... Hitler, The Taliban, Saddam.

The Ming and others claimed the Mandate of Heaven, they weren't concerned with territorial specific claims.

Yet, they specifically claimed the Spratleys and Paracels. Meanwhile, the Filipinos only made a claim in 1956. They were never claimed as part of the Spanish or American colonial administrations.

 

[martybegan]

So let's be honest, the west tolerated Hitler because he was a counter to Stalin... until he turned on them.

This sounds depressingly familiar, that the people we supported end up turning on us... Hitler, The Taliban, Saddam.


Yet, they specifically claimed the Spratleys and Paracels. Meanwhile, the Filipinos only made a claim in 1956. They were never claimed as part of the Spanish or American colonial administrations.

The west tried to use Stalin as a counter to Hillter as well. They were in negotiations with Stalin right up until the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

You have a link to that?

 

[JoeB131]

The west tried to use Stalin as a counter to Hillter as well. They were in negotiations with Stalin right up until the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

You have a link to that?

No, actually, they weren't.

In fact, Stalin was excluded from Munich, they were excluded from negotiations on Europe until Hilter gave Stalin much of what he wanted.

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

Sorry, I was wrong. The Claim goes back to the HAN Dynasty

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

While Beijing has not clarified the exact legal theory of China’s claims to the SCS and its landmasses, it is clear that China relies on a claim of historical right to the area.33 Beijing claims that China was the first country to discover the islands in the SCS, that it was the first country to establish an administration over these islands, that the Chinese people were the first people to live on the islands, and that China was the first country to conduct economic activity in the SCS: “[R]oughly at the time of Alexander the Great in the west, China has already carried out frequent fishing, planning and shipping activities in the [SCS].”34 According to Chinese ambassador Liu Xiaoming, “as early as 200 BC, during China’s Han Dynasty, the Chinese had large-scale and frequent sea-faring and fishing activities in the SCS. . . . It follows that because of frequent shipping [through the SCS], the Chinese became the first to discover the Islands in the SCS.”35 In another statement, China reiterated this argument: “The activities of the Chinese people in the SCS date back over 2,000 year ago. China is the first to have discovered, named, and explored and exploited [the SCS and its islands] . . . thus establishing territorial sovereignty . . . in the SCS.”36

 

[martybegan]

No, actually, they weren't.

In fact, Stalin was excluded from Munich, they were excluded from negotiations on Europe until Hilter gave Stalin much of what he wanted.

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

Sorry, I was wrong. The Claim goes back to the HAN Dynasty

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

While Beijing has not clarified the exact legal theory of China’s claims to the SCS and its landmasses, it is clear that China relies on a claim of historical right to the area.33 Beijing claims that China was the first country to discover the islands in the SCS, that it was the first country to establish an administration over these islands, that the Chinese people were the first people to live on the islands, and that China was the first country to conduct economic activity in the SCS: “[R]oughly at the time of Alexander the Great in the west, China has already carried out frequent fishing, planning and shipping activities in the [SCS].”34 According to Chinese ambassador Liu Xiaoming, “as early as 200 BC, during China’s Han Dynasty, the Chinese had large-scale and frequent sea-faring and fishing activities in the SCS. . . . It follows that because of frequent shipping [through the SCS], the Chinese became the first to discover the Islands in the SCS.”35 In another statement, China reiterated this argument: “The activities of the Chinese people in the SCS date back over 2,000 year ago. China is the first to have discovered, named, and explored and exploited [the SCS and its islands] . . . thus establishing territorial sovereignty . . . in the SCS.”36

Stalin was in negotiations with France and BG right up to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.



China China China.

And they only really cared about them once oil was discovered, at the same time the other countries really started caring.

 

[Unkotare]

No, actually, they weren't.

In fact, Stalin was excluded from Munich, they were excluded from negotiations on Europe until Hilter gave Stalin much of what he wanted.

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

Sorry, I was wrong. The Claim goes back to the HAN Dynasty

Historically Mine: The (Potentially) Legal Basis for China’s Sovereignty Claims to Land in

The impact of Beijing’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea is broad, and these claims are not likely to change in the near future. The PRC will not easily relinquish claims to land it

www.airuniversity.af.edu

While Beijing has not clarified the exact legal theory of China’s claims to the SCS and its landmasses, it is clear that China relies on a claim of historical right to the area.33 Beijing claims that China was the first country to discover the islands in the SCS, that it was the first country to establish an administration over these islands, that the Chinese people were the first people to live on the islands, and that China was the first country to conduct economic activity in the SCS: “[R]oughly at the time of Alexander the Great in the west, China has already carried out frequent fishing, planning and shipping activities in the [SCS].”34 According to Chinese ambassador Liu Xiaoming, “as early as 200 BC, during China’s Han Dynasty, the Chinese had large-scale and frequent sea-faring and fishing activities in the SCS. . . . It follows that because of frequent shipping [through the SCS], the Chinese became the first to discover the Islands in the SCS.”35 In another statement, China reiterated this argument: “The activities of the Chinese people in the SCS date back over 2,000 year ago. China is the first to have discovered, named, and explored and exploited [the SCS and its islands] . . . thus establishing territorial sovereignty . . . in the SCS.”36

Wikipedia ^