Christianity..... why non believers don't "get it".....

[guno]

In addition their was never a concept of original sin in Judaism , paul came up with that , if their is no original sin covering everyone , no need for a cure .. ie ..the christian jesus to take away the sins of the world , which is a ridiculous pagan concept

Saint Augustine (354-430) was the first theologian to teach that man is born into this world in a state of sin. The basis of his belief is from the Bible (Genesis 3:17-19) where Adam is described as having disobeyed G-d by eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. This, the first sin of man, became known as original sin.

Many Christians today, particularly members of the Anglican, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian Churches, subscribe to this belief. They maintain that the sin of Adam was transferred to all future generations, tainting even the unborn. Substantiation for this view is found in the New Testament (Romans 5:12) where Paul says, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. By one man's disobediance many were made sinners."

Christianity believes that only through the acceptance of Jesus that the "grace" of G-d can return to man. A Christian need only believe in Jesus to be saved; nothing else is required of them.

Judaism s Rejection of Original Sin Jewish Virtual Library

The Jews had animal sacrifices to cover their sins and yes their was original sin in Judaism.

No there never was , You are a christer and have it has been drilled into your head the mischaracterizations of what you call the OT, In fact the Hebrew bible has nothing to do with non jews and speaks to the Jewish nation and wasn't given or meant for non jews it is clearly stated you are the strangers spoken about, read my above linked post from Jewish sources

Nothing has been drilled into my head
It comes from intense deep study for 15 years.
My believe is in proof given to me thorough God.
You are the one under Satan's control so that you can not see the truth.

You are totally ignorant about Torah , so yes, you are ignorant. The Law was never given to christians to begin with and what you refer to a as the OT has nothing to do with you no matter how many semi literate preacher yahoos tell you it is

 

[Derideo_Te]

In addition their was never a concept of original sin in Judaism , paul came up with that , if their is no original sin covering everyone , no need for a cure .. ie ..the christian jesus to take away the sins of the world , which is a ridiculous pagan concept

Saint Augustine (354-430) was the first theologian to teach that man is born into this world in a state of sin. The basis of his belief is from the Bible (Genesis 3:17-19) where Adam is described as having disobeyed G-d by eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. This, the first sin of man, became known as original sin.

Many Christians today, particularly members of the Anglican, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian Churches, subscribe to this belief. They maintain that the sin of Adam was transferred to all future generations, tainting even the unborn. Substantiation for this view is found in the New Testament (Romans 5:12) where Paul says, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. By one man's disobediance many were made sinners."

Christianity believes that only through the acceptance of Jesus that the "grace" of G-d can return to man. A Christian need only believe in Jesus to be saved; nothing else is required of them.

Judaism s Rejection of Original Sin Jewish Virtual Library

The Jews had animal sacrifices to cover their sins and yes their was original sin in Judaism.

No there never was , You are a christer and have it has been drilled into your head the mischaracterizations of what you call the OT, In fact the Hebrew bible has nothing to do with non jews and speaks to the Jewish nation and wasn't given or meant for non jews it is clearly stated you are the strangers spoken about, read my above linked post from Jewish sources

Nothing has been drilled into my head
It comes from intense deep study for 15 years.
My believe is in proof given to me thorough God.
You are the one under Satan's control so that you can not see the truth.

Ironic given that you are the one denying the truth that is being provided by Guno that refutes what you claim to have studied for 15 years.

And yes, I can see where it is convenient for you to believe that someone else took the rap for your transgressions.

But that doesn't mean that you are innocent and won't be held accountable for them in your own right.

 

[guno]

Maybe you will learn something,
I don't mean to be nasty but I m tired of Christians defining everyone else's religion or no religion

 

[peach174]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

 

[guno]

And this is why since christian history Jews have been murdered for not accepting a pagan god man as god

 

[guno]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

The christian revenge fantasy again is not a argument its a dead end

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

 

[peach174]

In addition their was never a concept of original sin in Judaism , paul came up with that , if their is no original sin covering everyone , no need for a cure .. ie ..the christian jesus to take away the sins of the world , which is a ridiculous pagan concept

Saint Augustine (354-430) was the first theologian to teach that man is born into this world in a state of sin. The basis of his belief is from the Bible (Genesis 3:17-19) where Adam is described as having disobeyed G-d by eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. This, the first sin of man, became known as original sin.

Many Christians today, particularly members of the Anglican, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian Churches, subscribe to this belief. They maintain that the sin of Adam was transferred to all future generations, tainting even the unborn. Substantiation for this view is found in the New Testament (Romans 5:12) where Paul says, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. By one man's disobediance many were made sinners."

Christianity believes that only through the acceptance of Jesus that the "grace" of G-d can return to man. A Christian need only believe in Jesus to be saved; nothing else is required of them.

Judaism s Rejection of Original Sin Jewish Virtual Library

The Jews had animal sacrifices to cover their sins and yes their was original sin in Judaism.

No there never was , You are a christer and have it has been drilled into your head the mischaracterizations of what you call the OT, In fact the Hebrew bible has nothing to do with non jews and speaks to the Jewish nation and wasn't given or meant for non jews it is clearly stated you are the strangers spoken about, read my above linked post from Jewish sources

Nothing has been drilled into my head
It comes from intense deep study for 15 years.
My believe is in proof given to me thorough God.
You are the one under Satan's control so that you can not see the truth.

Ironic given that you are the one denying the truth that is being provided by Guno that refutes what you claim to have studied for 15 years.

And yes, I can see where it is convenient for you to believe that someone else took the rap for your transgressions.

But that doesn't mean that you are innocent and won't be held accountable for them in your own right.

Guno has put Jesus as an ordinary human being and not God's son.
He has it right that no regular human can take a sacrifice for anyone else.
I know that I will be held accountable for the sins I have done after I accepted Jesus as my savior.
I will still have every lasting life after I die because I believe in Jesus

Jesus is not an ordinary regular human and he is twisting the truth.
Jesus was there with God from the beginning of time and came here to be sacrificed for everyone's sins.That includes all of humanity who believes in Jesus.

 

[peach174]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

The christian revenge fantasy again is not a argument its a dead end

Christian revenge

 

[Vandalshandle]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

I am hoping that he will alow me to sit. I have a bad back.

 

[peach174]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

 

[guno]

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey Pew Research Center

 

[shimon]

Well that is an interesting survey guno..... Remember though you shall know them by their fruits.....teachings.....and since the christians took a bite out of the teachings of A Paul or the APPLE they are deaf dumb and blind and like fools for christ and they are fools they BEL LIE EVE what they chew/choose to Believe....

 

[guno]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

You goyim have nothing to do about anyone who was jewish, explaining it to you is meaningless, paul was the founder of the christianity mythology and he wasn't a contemporary of yeshu the god man and came to him in a dream or a epileptic stroke. Hearing voices seeing visions 80 years after yeshu was dead

You ignorance of Torah and Tanakh is evident , as are most of you fundamentalist goyim. The only thing good about your ilk you go to israel and site see your mythologic "holy sites and spend $$$,

Medical Historians See Paul as Epileptic

Medical Historians See Paul as Epileptic - NYTimes.com

 

[peach174]

One day you will find out for yourself Guno who is right and who was wrong.
As a Christian it's up to me to spread the good news.
It is up to the individual person to accept or deny.

 

[shimon]

Ah what an interesting name peach...... We know you by your fruits/teachings but we also know your shell game where you hide the pea under it and try to get any unsuspecting naive person to buy into your game.....wink...

 

[Manonthestreet]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

Keep in mind what some Christians means by "bore our sins" (penal substitution) is not what most Christians mean. Catholics (and Orthodox) see Christ bearing our sins much the way Leviticus describes priests bearing sins to the altar, or Holy of Holies, for the people. In other words, someone holy makes atonement with God for the sins of the people.

Early Christians, and Catholics, Orthodox (and a few other denominations) get this distinction. Jesus (instead of a Jewish priest) bore our sins to the cross, and the atonement/satisfaction--sealed in blood--is the covenant of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (not an animal or cereal sacrifice offered by the individual) for which priests then make atonement between that individual and God.

Fifteen hundred years after Christ and the Apostles, Reformers came up with an entirely different understanding--which the majority of Christians rejected.

Did Christ bear our sins? Absolutely, but with the Leviticus understanding, not the penal substitute understanding.

Did Christ offer his life, his blood to seal the New Covenant? Yes he did. Just as the blood of Passover Lamb provided protection to God's people, so does Christ's blood signify our belief that he did establish a new covenant with God for all people--not just the Jewish people. As we often hear Jews say, Torah Law/Covenants are for Jews, not for Gentiles. We Gentiles gained a Covenant. We did not (as the minority say) gain a penal substitute.

 

[guno]

Know what is really funny? Fundy christians that claim they are "grafted" onto the Jewish people!! LOL yea right! Ask any Jew or Rabbi and they will laugh in your face