Christianity..... why non believers don't "get it".....

[Derideo_Te]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

You are twisting that out of context.

Jesus is not claiming to be the son of God. He is saying that he is doing the work of God.

 

[shimon]

Jesus said any who has seen him has seen the father..... Remember the story of bar abbas which in english means nothing but in hebrew means son of the father... This shows john is garbage because in pushing that story they misunderstood the hebrew concept or name so john belongs in the crapper....you guys teach barnabbas... Abba means father in hebrew... Well duh.....

 

[guno]

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

You are twisting that out of context.

View attachment 44858

Jesus is not claiming to be the son of God. He is saying that he is doing the work of God.

Yep yeshu was not named a god or son of a god until 325 CE by the church at the First Council of Nicaea

325 years after his carcass was rotted away

 

[Manonthestreet]

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

You are twisting that out of context.

View attachment 44858

Jesus is not claiming to be the son of God. He is saying that he is doing the work of God.

Talk about twisting.....The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:33

 

[Bonzi]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

.
why non believers don't "get it".....

OP: the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers ... Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

between the two " ^ , there seems good reason to be on guard for both their characters as well as their declarative " the glory of Christ, who is the image of God " that fits the narrative of yet another of their, bibles lie's ...


the truth is, BELIEVERS don't get it ....

.

which is of Satan. either you believe God or not. very simple.
You say you know better than God, okay, but, we'll never know until we are dead on this Earth.
Life is short. Which path do you want to take?

 

[guno]

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

You are twisting that out of context.

View attachment 44858

Jesus is not claiming to be the son of God. He is saying that he is doing the work of God.

Talk about twisting.....The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:33

You are quoting the goyim bible which only the goyim believe in ,not the Torah or Tanakh. It was very easy for non Jews to accept christianity because they had no knowledge of understanding of the Hebrew bible and a god impregnating a human and man god was not a problem to them as their old pagan religion had the same concepts.

 

[guno]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

.
why non believers don't "get it".....

OP: the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers ... Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

between the two " ^ , there seems good reason to be on guard for both their characters as well as their declarative " the glory of Christ, who is the image of God " that fits the narrative of yet another of their, bibles lie's ...


the truth is, BELIEVERS don't get it ....

.

which is of Satan. either you believe God or not. very simple.
You say you know better than God, okay, but, we'll never know until we are dead on this Earth.
Life is short. Which path do you want to take?

Well I wondered when the christian satan would be pulled out of the closet

 

[Bonzi]

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

Bonzi, I spent more than a quarter century as a devout Christian. I come from a family that has been active in the church for generations.

Then something happened that made me rethink the whole concept of Organized Religion. I spent three years researching different religions in person.

In the end I decided that not only wasn't Christianity for me but no Organized Religion was. I now follow a personal, private spirituality rather than religion.

My history is like yours only, one more step.
I grew up in the Lutheran church. Hated it. Boring and filled with hypocrisy.
I went to a Baptist church (not that Baptist is the only "real" or true denomination; I do not believe that) but I heard God via the scripture and the preacher. I gave my life to Christ.

Only God knows if you have a heart for him. I am not a judge. I am only here as a flawed human being, saved by the grace of God and speaking what I know to be truth.

 

[Bonzi]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

.
why non believers don't "get it".....

OP: the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers ... Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

between the two " ^ , there seems good reason to be on guard for both their characters as well as their declarative " the glory of Christ, who is the image of God " that fits the narrative of yet another of their, bibles lie's ...


the truth is, BELIEVERS don't get it ....

.

which is of Satan. either you believe God or not. very simple.
You say you know better than God, okay, but, we'll never know until we are dead on this Earth.
Life is short. Which path do you want to take?

Well I wondered when the christian satan would be pulled out of the closet

He's certainly not in the closet.. he's everywhere... pulling the strings... but, you can be freed, but you don't want to be....

 

[Manonthestreet]

Yep
That is exactly what he was accused of and why the Pharisees wanted him dead.

But Jesus himself never made that claim. He knew that it would have been a death penalty if he had.

Jesus said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

You are twisting that out of context.

View attachment 44858

Jesus is not claiming to be the son of God. He is saying that he is doing the work of God.

Talk about twisting.....The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:33

You are quoting the goyim bible which only the goyim believe in ,not the Torah or Tanakh. It was very easy for non Jews to accept christianity because they had no knowledge of understanding of the Hebrew bible and a god impregnating a human and man god was not a problem to them as their old pagan religion had the same concepts.

You are babbling proving threads point

 

[Bonzi]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

Oh we Jews get your fable and we don't buy it because we know the story and it doesn't contain a god man which is a pagan concept

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Hope this helped

I think you need to study Isaiah a little bit more guno.

 

[Bonzi]

"Christianity..... why non believers don't "get it"....."

Those free from faith indeed 'get' Christianity; in fact, the vast majority of those free from faith were once Christian, with a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of the gospels and the religion's doctrine and dogma - and with that knowledge and understanding came to the correct conclusion that being free from faith was the appropriate decision.

The bible and its gospels were written by men, imbued with man's ignorance, fear, and hate, rendering the gospels devoid of secular authority or legal merit.

And your post exhibits the arrogance common to many Christians, an arrogance that conflicts with Christian dogma, one of many reasons why those free from faith reject your religion of hypocrisy.

My perceived arrogance is your subconscious recognition of the truth.
I don't speak with arrogance but with conviction.
If you were honest with yourself, you would see it.
But the blinding and veil continues to be over your eyes and your mind.

 

[guno]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

Oh we Jews get your fable and we don't buy it because we know the story and it doesn't contain a god man which is a pagan concept

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Hope this helped

I think you need to study Isaiah a little bit more guno.

Isaiah is part of the Jewish bible and goyim have not read or understood it , nor does it pertain to the goyim religion, it was given to the Jews not the strangers (goyim) read it in Hebrew in the context in hebrew, It always amazes me when Ignorant goyim Tell us Jews what is in our bible and what it means.

Isaiah 53 The Suffering Servant

 

[Anathema]

My history is like yours only, one more step. I grew up in the Lutheran church. Hated it. Boring and filled with hypocrisy.
I went to a Baptist church (not that Baptist is the only "real" or true denomination; I do not believe that) but I heard God via the scripture and the preacher. I gave my life to Christ.

Only God knows if you have a heart for him. I am not a judge. I am only here as a flawed human being, saved by the grace of God and speaking what I know to be truth.

I grew up Lutheran as well; for more than 25 years. My maternal grandfather was a Lutheran Pastor. I heard the Word of God for years, but it didn't match up with what I saw and experienced in the world. Then I watched the most truly good and decent person I've ever known wither away and due of Cancer at what should have been the best years of his life. That was the last straw.

I spent three years going to every church, synagogue, mosque, etc... In this area and asking just one, one word question. Nobody was able to answer it to my satisfaction.

During that time I also looked at non - traditional religions and found actual answers in some of their ideologies; but nothing that fit 100%. This led me to believe in the idea of an individual rather than collective connection to God/The Gods.

 

[BluePhantom]

"Christianity..... why non believers don't "get it"....."

Those free from faith indeed 'get' Christianity; in fact, the vast majority of those free from faith were once Christian, with a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of the gospels and the religion's doctrine and dogma - and with that knowledge and understanding came to the correct conclusion that being free from faith was the appropriate decision.

Well I think that's a pretty simplistic model. It's not like all atheists (or perhaps even most) experienced a 'moment of enlightenment where they saw through the myth'. I think that is certainly true of some atheists and it is certainly how they would like to view themselves, but I would guess that the real reasons are far more complex, far less mystic than some grand epiphany, and far more personal in nature. I would guess that many of them left faith because they were raised in a religiously repressive environment and when they got on their own they rejected faith as a means of rebellion. Some perhaps suffered a tragedy that made them question why God allows such things to happen. Some perhaps are just lazy and find that not believing is far easier than maintaining their faith. There are all sorts of reasons.

I have found that there are many people who rejected their faith and desperately want it back. They just don't know how. One friend of mine rejected faith because he fell in with a bad church. It was a community wherein they were not allowed to listen to rock music, they were not allowed to go roller skating, they were not allowed to ask any questions, etc. If they did they were dragged on the stage during service and chastised in front of the community. Pfft...I understand completely why he hates religion the way he does. But he also says he wishes he had found a path where his faith could have been maintained. That's just one example, but there are many.

Absolutely there are those who, after great inner reflection, simply said "I don't buy it", but I am not convinced they represent the majority reason for why people leave faith.

I tend to view your assumption that atheists are somehow more enlightened than theists is reflective of your inner need to convince yourself of your own superiority. You sure aint convincing any of us.

 

[Manonthestreet]

My history is like yours only, one more step. I grew up in the Lutheran church. Hated it. Boring and filled with hypocrisy.
I went to a Baptist church (not that Baptist is the only "real" or true denomination; I do not believe that) but I heard God via the scripture and the preacher. I gave my life to Christ.

Only God knows if you have a heart for him. I am not a judge. I am only here as a flawed human being, saved by the grace of God and speaking what I know to be truth.

I grew up Lutheran as well; for more than 25 years. My maternal grandfather was a Lutheran Pastor. I heard the Word of God for years, but it didn't match up with what I saw and experienced in the world. Then I watched the most truly good and decent person I've ever known wither away and due of Cancer at what should have been the best years of his life. That was the last straw.

I spent three years going to every church, synagogue, mosque, etc... In this area and asking just one, one word question. Nobody was able to answer it to my satisfaction.

During that time I also looked at non - traditional religions and found actual answers in some of their ideologies; but nothing that fit 100%. This led me to believe in the idea of an individual rather than collective connection to God/The Gods.

Gee thats what Christianity is.........an individual connection to God.....

 

[Bonzi]

Reading the Bible this morning, I opened it up to 2 Corinthians 4.

It addresses why people that are non-Christian's are unable to process or understand the Truth of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-5

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

This is a section of the Bible explaining why, as Christians, we need to be the Light to the world.
Because Satan is a deceiver, trying to blind you to the Truth.

Oh we Jews get your fable and we don't buy it because we know the story and it doesn't contain a god man which is a pagan concept

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Hope this helped

I think you need to study Isaiah a little bit more guno.

Isaiah is part of the Jewish bible and goyim have not read or understood it , nor does it pertain to the goyim religion, it was given to the Jews not the strangers (goyim) read it in Hebrew in the context in hebrew, It always amazes me when Ignorant goyim Tell us Jews what is in our bible and what it means.

Isaiah 53 The Suffering Servant

Others have researched translations that prove otherwise. Posting websites with conflicting interpretations proves nothing except that people with websites will show what they want to show with bias. The scriptures in Isaiah too closely resemble the actual and proved events of the true Messiah, Jesus, to be disputed.

 

[BluePhantom]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe Essay 1 No Vicarious Atonement

It is clear that you do not believe that Jesus is Gods son.
Nothing will convince you and I doubt that you will believe, even when you stand before Jesus at judgment.

Even Jesus would not have believed that he was the son of God because to do so would have been blasphemy for a Jew.

Well I am not so sure about that. The portrayal of the divinity of Jesus is quite different across the gospels and even there is even greater differences in the apocrypha. In Mark, for example, He takes great effort to conceal His identity as the Messiah where in John He goes out of His way to demonstrate it. He was convicted of blasphemy by the Sanhedrin (although the reasons for His actually arrest and the charges before Pilate were quite different).

 

[Bonzi]

My history is like yours only, one more step. I grew up in the Lutheran church. Hated it. Boring and filled with hypocrisy.
I went to a Baptist church (not that Baptist is the only "real" or true denomination; I do not believe that) but I heard God via the scripture and the preacher. I gave my life to Christ.

Only God knows if you have a heart for him. I am not a judge. I am only here as a flawed human being, saved by the grace of God and speaking what I know to be truth.

I grew up Lutheran as well; for more than 25 years. My maternal grandfather was a Lutheran Pastor. I heard the Word of God for years, but it didn't match up with what I saw and experienced in the world. Then I watched the most truly good and decent person I've ever known wither away and due of Cancer at what should have been the best years of his life. That was the last straw.

I spent three years going to every church, synagogue, mosque, etc... In this area and asking just one, one word question. Nobody was able to answer it to my satisfaction.

During that time I also looked at non - traditional religions and found actual answers in some of their ideologies; but nothing that fit 100%. This led me to believe in the idea of an individual rather than collective connection to God/The Gods.

You are right! Religion is not the key but RELATIONSHIP with GOD! Unfortunately, goodness and kindness don't get us to Heaven. As human beings in the flesh, we are taught at an early age that WORKS gets us REWARDs. GOD teach us that acceptance of a gift, and full submission to Him gives us eternal life.

The irony is, that, would all be so much happier if we lived by is two greatest commands

(1) Love God
(2) Love your neighbor as yourself

Most people don't have a problem with (2)......

 

[Derideo_Te]

"Christianity..... why non believers don't "get it"....."

Those free from faith indeed 'get' Christianity; in fact, the vast majority of those free from faith were once Christian, with a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of the gospels and the religion's doctrine and dogma - and with that knowledge and understanding came to the correct conclusion that being free from faith was the appropriate decision.

Well I think that's a pretty simplistic model. It's not like all atheists (or perhaps even most) experienced a 'moment of enlightenment where they saw through the myth'. I think that is certainly true of some atheists and it is certainly how they would like to view themselves, but I would guess that the real reasons are far more complex, far less mystic than some grand epiphany, and far more personal in nature. I would guess that many of them left faith because they were raised in a religiously repressive environment and when they got on their own they rejected faith as a means of rebellion. Some perhaps suffered a tragedy that made them question why God allows such things to happen. Some perhaps are just lazy and find that not believing is far easier than maintaining their faith. There are all sorts of reasons.

I have found that there are many people who rejected their faith and desperately want it back. They just don't know how. One friend of mine rejected faith because he fell in with a bad church. It was a community wherein they were not allowed to listen to rock music, they were not allowed to go roller skating, they were not allowed to ask any questions, etc. If they did they were dragged on the stage during service and chastised in front of the community. Pfft...I understand completely why he hates religion the way he does. But he also says he wishes he had found a path where his faith could have been maintained. That's just one example, but there are many.

Absolutely there are those who, after great inner reflection, simply said "I don't buy it", but I am not convinced they represent the majority reason for why people leave faith.

I tend to view your assumption that atheists are somehow more enlightened than theists is reflective of your inner need to convince yourself of your own superiority. You sure aint convincing any of us.

Atheists are not more "enlightened" than theists.

They are just less encumbered with superstitious beliefs.

Makes for clearer and more rational thinking IMO.

I can't recall ever hearing any Pastararian wondering what would the flying spaghetti monster do?