Civility impossible?

[Flopper]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

The level of ire in America is growing. There's more derision among people because of politics, race and religion than there was before the Civil War, and quite frankly, I don't see it going away without some big way to release the tension, like another Civil War.

And forums such these provide a way to release those tension in a harmless manner. When people keep there hatred and discontent bottled up for to long, violence is often the result which we see in the media daily.

 

[PredFan]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

710 threads here and not a single thing more was accomplished than in the threads where civility is uncommon. So what is the point of being civil? I'm not going to change the mind of a liberal, nor will a liberal change the minds of a conservative.

I came from a highly moderated forum where civility was enforced, and I know that nothing changes anyway. I learned this lesson well and now I come on this board to network with other conservatives and to educate people. Occasionally calling an idiot and idiot breaks up the monotony.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

True. Better a forum than the streets. If the same attitude was seen in person people'd be clobbering one another.

 

[Kathy58]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

If you look through this forum, things are moderated heavily and it seems that threads do pretty well. /QUOTE]


Boy, you sure could have fooled me I joined this forum looking forward to good political debate. Instead, it seems many members could care less about anything other than name calling and insulting just for the heck of it. And as far as the moderation of this board, I'll argue given the level of filthy language here, I don't believe moderators exist on this board. Nowadays, I primarily lurk and rarely post anymore.
IMO, FWIW, when someone uses insults and name calling in an attempt to make a point, it lowers the intellectual level of conversation and makes the offending poster appear dumb as rocks. JMO....

 

[Flopper]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

If you look through this forum, things are moderated heavily and it seems that threads do pretty well. /QUOTE]


Boy, you sure could have fooled me I joined this forum looking forward to good political debate. Instead, it seems many members could care less about anything other than name calling and insulting just for the heck of it. And as far as the moderation of this board, I'll argue given the level of filthy language here, I don't believe moderators exist on this board. Nowadays, I primarily lurk and rarely post anymore.
IMO, FWIW, when someone uses insults and name calling in an attempt to make a point, it lowers the intellectual level of conversation and makes the offending poster appear dumb as rocks. JMO....

The best way to stop the personal attacks and insults is to ignore them. Nobody wants to be ignored.

 

[Kathy58]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

The level of ire in America is growing. There's more derision among people because of politics, race and religion than there was before the Civil War, and quite frankly, I don't see it going away without some big way to release the tension, like another Civil War.

And forums such these provide a way to release those tension in a harmless manner. When people keep there hatred and discontent bottled up for to long, violence is often the result which we see in the media daily.

Harmless? Demeaning and insulting people is not harmless, IMO. Used to be that physical exercise released tension and anger, not intentionally hurting others. One solution could be to go play tennis, or run, or swim. Tires a person out plus release endorphins which make us feel good physically and mentally. Seems quite a few on this board should try it (comment is not directed at you, just in general).

 

[ShawnChris13]

I agree. I have been joining political debates and I am constantly ignored because of arguments that run threads. I feel like my points are valid, but it's hard to judge the validity of an idea if it is never refuted. My main goal is to hear what disagreements people hold to my views in order to improve my own. It is only through discussion we can truly raise our general awareness. The people who wish civil debate are clearly browsing CDZ and not politics. I will in the future try to raise my arguments in this zone and hope for more in depth debate.

 

[Flopper]

The level of ire in America is growing. There's more derision among people because of politics, race and religion than there was before the Civil War, and quite frankly, I don't see it going away without some big way to release the tension, like another Civil War.

And forums such these provide a way to release those tension in a harmless manner. When people keep there hatred and discontent bottled up for to long, violence is often the result which we see in the media daily.

Harmless? Demeaning and insulting people is not harmless, IMO. Used to be that physical exercise released tension and anger, not intentionally hurting others. One solution could be to go play tennis, or run, or swim. Tires a person out plus release endorphins which make us feel good physically and mentally. Seems quite a few on this board should try it (comment is not directed at you, just in general).

When I say harmless, I mean relative to other means of expression such as bombing a mosque or government office. Sure physical exercise is great for releasing of tension but some people just need to get their feeling off their chest. I say just ignore them.

 

[Listening]

I agree. I have been joining political debates and I am constantly ignored because of arguments that run threads. I feel like my points are valid, but it's hard to judge the validity of an idea if it is never refuted. My main goal is to hear what disagreements people hold to my views in order to improve my own. It is only through discussion we can truly raise our general awareness. The people who wish civil debate are clearly browsing CDZ and not politics. I will in the future try to raise my arguments in this zone and hope for more in depth debate.

I have always appreciated your approach and if people ignore you it is only because they can't respond to the arguments you make.

I like the CDZ and have found it necessary to recruit.

I would personally like to stay out of the other forums as I seem unwilling to not flame the morons on the left (see what I mean ).

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If you look through this forum, things are moderated heavily and it seems that threads do pretty well. /QUOTE]


Boy, you sure could have fooled me I joined this forum looking forward to good political debate. Instead, it seems many members could care less about anything other than name calling and insulting just for the heck of it. And as far as the moderation of this board, I'll argue given the level of filthy language here, I don't believe moderators exist on this board. Nowadays, I primarily lurk and rarely post anymore.
IMO, FWIW, when someone uses insults and name calling in an attempt to make a point, it lowers the intellectual level of conversation and makes the offending poster appear dumb as rocks. JMO....

The best way to stop the personal attacks and insults is to ignore them. Nobody wants to be ignored.

From a psychologist's pov, telling someone you're putting them on ignore, but not, just to watch em sputter and flame can be cathartic.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I agree. I have been joining political debates and I am constantly ignored because of arguments that run threads. I feel like my points are valid, but it's hard to judge the validity of an idea if it is never refuted. My main goal is to hear what disagreements people hold to my views in order to improve my own. It is only through discussion we can truly raise our general awareness. The people who wish civil debate are clearly browsing CDZ and not politics. I will in the future try to raise my arguments in this zone and hope for more in depth debate.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Maintain the moral high-ground and refuse to jump down in the muck with rude people. The one who cusses first, looses. (Delta's Rules of Debate)

 

[tinydancer]

Impossible.

 

[Ava]

Translated: Progressives will continue to rule and reign and maybe some day call out the troops like Lincoln did.

So what if it costs millions of American lives. The only goal is to preserve the collectivist state.

No, that's not the translation. This is what I'm talking about...

...I think the days of progressives ruling are coming to a screeching halt. With the advent of obamacare being shoved down the vast majority of people's throats by 'progressives' that didn't even read the bill, the amount of distrust and ire that's building against this authoritarian, dictator type ruling over people by the left is back firing on them, as witnessed recently by the Phil Robertson escapade. Something is going to spark a set of events and it will quickly spiral out of control, like the government not being able to pay the interest on the debt and our economy crashing, or the stock market crashing, more than likely something to do with the economy, and that will cause riots, then truck drivers will be afraid to drive into cities, the cities will run out of food, and the country will be in full blown anarchy inside of a couple days. It'll happens so fast there won't be any way to stop it, but whether you call it anarchy, rioting out of control, or whatever, it will be civil war, because Washington won't be able to come out of it unscathed, because all in all, they will be the sole reason it all happened in the first place.

Profanity and name calling generally destroys a thread. Once that starts, any intelligent discussion seems to stop. I do think that some people have a need to express their aggression and that's why they're here. I try not to ever launch a personal attack on poster. It's pointless.

Ditto that which I bolded....^^^^

 

[Publius1787]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

What is your standard of civility? I always thought that using words instead of guns was the very definition of civility. I can easily ignore the flame thrower just as you can.

 

[flacaltenn]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

If you look through this forum, things are moderated heavily and it seems that threads do pretty well. There is on poster who seems want to jam up the works with endless pontificating (but name calling has gotten several of her posts removed).

I have appreciated it.

I openly admit to flaming hard on most other threads. If I had the self control I wanted, I'd never wonder outside this forum.

At the same time, threads can sit idle for days with no activity.

I get bored and I get out the napalm.

I don't mind opposition. Opposing points of view are good as they help us refine our own. And once or twice a lifetime we might actually change our minds about something It's the junior high language and insults that irk me to no end. I don't want it censored or modderated like, I just expect better from people. Set the bar higher and people try to meet it, set it too low and they'll do the minimum instead.

"Lead by example, not volume." - Me.

A lot of us come to places like USMB believing that everyone is hoping for productive exchanges. Would like to trust , but verify so tospeak. Unfortunately, most forums are combat zones and folks come loaded with weaponized factoids and biased garbage analysis from every corner of the political cosmos. The only civility I can offer is that my goal is never to impeach the poster. I only want to disarm them of their weapons and make them scramble to find NEW ones. A good day on USMB for me is blowing up 2 or 3 of the lead stories on thinkprogress or skepticalscience or other shameful purveyors of slacker news.

Its kinda amazing that the rules ofTHIS forum tend to favor mostly neutered topics. And theres never a lot of facts and figures and backup to the discussions. IMO. But the good news is - the party animals with no self control -- avoid it like a colonoscopy....

 

[Avatar4321]

I can't make others civil. I can only choose civility for myself and advocate for others to do so as well.

So no, civility isn't impossible. But like all virtues, it cannot be coerced.

 

[Mac1958]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Maintain the moral high-ground and refuse to jump down in the muck with rude people. The one who cusses first, looses. (Delta's Rules of Debate)

I can't make others civil. I can only choose civility for myself and advocate for others to do so as well.

So no, civility isn't impossible. But like all virtues, it cannot be coerced.

My theory is that most of our problems can be traced to a culture in decay, and this is an example.

We've become a terribly narcissistic society, clearly egged on and motivated by the various partisan pundits who deal in intellectually dishonest absolutes. I don't know if people are trying to literally emulate them or if they're simply inspired by them, but it's not difficult at all to see the similarities between their behavior and that of their heroes.

I don't know how this gets turned around. The obvious answer would be that well-known "leaders" -- political, cultural, religious, business, media, whatever, all of the above -- have to appear and lead the way out of this darkness. They would have to promote some sort of ground rules and (more importantly) cultural expectations for honesty, maturity and civility, and then create some kind of momentum from which the change can begin.

Problem is, I don't see any of these "leaders" doing anything of the sort, and I have to admit I'm not terribly hopeful. The intolerant, absolutist screamers have the energy and the influence, and they're dragging us down pretty quickly.

.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Maintain the moral high-ground and refuse to jump down in the muck with rude people. The one who cusses first, looses. (Delta's Rules of Debate)

I can't make others civil. I can only choose civility for myself and advocate for others to do so as well.

So no, civility isn't impossible. But like all virtues, it cannot be coerced.

My theory is that most of our problems can be traced to a culture in decay, and this is an example.

We've become a terribly narcissistic society, clearly egged on and motivated by the various partisan pundits who deal in intellectually dishonest absolutes. I don't know if people are trying to literally emulate them or if they're simply inspired by them, but it's not difficult at all to see the similarities between their behavior and that of their heroes.

I don't know how this gets turned around. The obvious answer would be that well-known "leaders" -- political, cultural, religious, business, media, whatever, all of the above -- have to appear and lead the way out of this darkness. They would have to promote some sort of ground rules and (more importantly) cultural expectations for honesty, maturity and civility, and then create some kind of momentum from which the change can begin.

Problem is, I don't see any of these "leaders" doing anything of the sort, and I have to admit I'm not terribly hopeful. The intolerant, absolutist screamers have the energy and the influence, and they're dragging us down pretty quickly.

.

I believe you're right, we imitate what we see. And since the only place most of us see discussion on issues affecting us is tv, what we're seeing and imitating isn't true debate, but rather entertainment. Both sides express the absolute pov to make it watchable so we sit still long enough to see a commercial. Then when we try and discuss topics ourselves, because of how we've learned such discussions take place (supposedly) we use the extreme ourselves. But not being subject to FCC regulations or being beholden to advertisers, are far more crude and base in the ways we do it.

 

[whitehall]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

First you have to acknowledge that we live in the greatest most tolerant society in the world and then you gain enough perspective to know that a political insult is nothing to fear and is part of civil discourse.

 

[jwoodie]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

First you have to acknowledge that we live in the greatest most tolerant society in the world and then you gain enough perspective to know that a political insult is nothing to fear and is part of civil discourse.

Comforting words, but the threat of political retribution is as great today as it was in the 1950's.