Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

[RKMBrown]

You would trust the 911 caller's report of a child terrorizing a park with a gun to the point of killing a 12year old boy? Without even seeing him point the gun at anyone. You've convicted this boy already and you are just the strong arm of the law protecting everyone from this accused boy... as soon as you see the gun he's dead, that about cover it?

Should we not put any faith in 911 calls?

I've called 911 before, and the dispatcher relayed the information to the police. Should we not have been trusted, but doubted? People die when the dispatcher does not take seriously the caller, or when the police does not take seriously the dispatcher. They are professionals, and both lives and seconds matter.

I'm not gonna kill a 12 year old "pre-teen" boy with a replica bb gun based on that 911 call. When I see a hunter in the woods with a rifle I assume he's there to hunt game. When I see a young boy running around a park with something that looks like a gun, I assume he's there to play. No loud bangs? No "shots" fired? No one injured? He's not pointing it at me?

No. What happened is we have a cop with his gun out pointing it at the kid, safety off, finger on the trigger. Cop is screaming at the boy. Boy makes a wrong move and trigger happy cop puts two bullets into a child to "potentially" save his life. Instead of asking the kid if the gun is real the cop tells the boy to put his hands up. A twelve year old kid who is scared to death as two cops are running him down in a park pointing real guns at him about to kill him.

 

[Wake]

AND NOT SHOOTING IT... and no calls from any of the people he pointed the gun at...which IS an important part of the story. Why didn't he shoot his gun and kill all of the people he was pointing it at that was reported?

that's the full story.... that's what the cops knew, a man supposedly, was pointing his gun at people and did not shoot them....the cops knew he had not fired the gun at anyone.

If I pointed a gun at you, but did not shoot it, how would you feel on the inside?

I would be terrified. I would not have known if it were real or not. A pull of the trigger could end my life or have me laid up in a hospital. I feel a lot of empathy for the people the boy terrorized.

Him not shooting but pointing does not mean he would not have pulled the trigger.

 

[Rocko]

Anyone else find the right's reaction hypocritical?

If a white kid is shot by a parent's negligently leaving a gun out. All you hear about is that it's a tragedy. And then when the legitimate question of where were the parents, the response is usually "How dare you say that? This family is grieving."

But a black kid gets shot for no reason, there is no sympathy and people say "Horrible parents, they are obviously bad people."

Why is that?

Bad parenting is more of a glaring problem in the black comunity. Next.

How? Because YOU think it is? What about when white kids go vandalize property and get shot by police before given a chance to surrender? Would you say that the parents who didn't know what they were doing are bad parents? The answer is no because you would feel "sympathy" for them because you could relate to them.

But because you can't relate to black people (or don't want to), you decide to find any reason to not sympathize with them and think they deserve it or they are horrible living creatures. Dehumanizing them so it's justified to hate them.

I have empathy for blacks, but at the same time I understand thier problems are of thier own doing. Liberals and blacks obsesse over white racism while wilfully ignoring and making excuses for the self-destructive behavior of black people.

You couldn't possibly have empathy for black people. Empathy means putting yourself in their shoes, and you don't do that; if you did, there is no way on Earth you'd write the things you do. Sympathy, also, you do not have. You are a racist, died in the wool. KKK type. Sick and sickening.

And, based on your posting, you are illiterate and probably uneducated. Statistics show that racists are generally unintelligent and uneducated, at least below average. Looks like you fit right into that category.

I wear your accusation of being a racist as a badge of honor. I know people like you like to call people racist so they can suppress the truth, but it won't work with me. In general I find you despicable. I have no problem with foreigners. They certainly have a right to discus issues that affect Americans on this board like everyone else, one would hope that while discussing these issues they conduct themselves in a respectful and appropriate manner. You do not. You are incredibly arrogant. You act like you know more about what goes on here than people who actually live here. You also have a problem showing people who you disagree with basic respect. In short you are a stupid bitch. Go fuck yourself!

 

[peach174]

Except the kid did not have the weapon fist. He was ordered to show his hands and then he reached for the gun.

At what time mark on the video does the cop order him to show his hands?

If it had sound and if it was not in compressed time then maybe you would know.

Will you quit parroting that crap.

Facts are not crap.
Many of you need to get it into your heads that we are not seeing the full video of what really happened.

 

[Roadrunner]

You would trust the 911 caller's report of a child terrorizing a park with a gun to the point of killing a 12year old boy? Without even seeing him point the gun at anyone. You've convicted this boy already and you are just the strong arm of the law protecting everyone from this accused boy... as soon as you see the gun he's dead, that about cover it?

Should we not put any faith in 911 calls?

I've called 911 before, and the dispatcher relayed the information to the police. Should we not have been trusted, but doubted? People die when the dispatcher does not take seriously the caller, or when the police does not take seriously the dispatcher. They are professionals, and both lives and seconds matter.

I'm not gonna kill a 12 year old "pre-teen" boy with a replica bb gun based on that 911 call. When I see a hunter in the woods with a rifle I assume he's there to hunt game. When I see a young boy running around a park with something that looks like a gun, I assume he's there to play. No loud bangs? No "shots" fired? No one injured? He's not pointing it at me?

No. What happened is we have a cop with his gun out pointing it at the kid, safety off, finger on the trigger. Cop is screaming at the boy. Boy makes a wrong move and trigger happy cop puts two bullets into a child to "potentially" save his life. Instead of asking the kid if the gun is real the cop tells the boy to put his hands up. A twelve year old kid who is scared to death as two cops are running him down in a park pointing real guns at him about to kill him.

Say you were a game warden, and unarmed users of the National Forest had called, and said a young hunter had been pointing a rifle at them?
Easy second guess, hard to change a mind made up in August when media reported a kid on his knees with his hands help up had been shot in the back of the head by a racist cop out hunting.

 

[Roadrunner]

You would trust the 911 caller's report of a child terrorizing a park with a gun to the point of killing a 12year old boy? Without even seeing him point the gun at anyone. You've convicted this boy already and you are just the strong arm of the law protecting everyone from this accused boy... as soon as you see the gun he's dead, that about cover it?

Should we not put any faith in 911 calls?

I've called 911 before, and the dispatcher relayed the information to the police. Should we not have been trusted, but doubted? People die when the dispatcher does not take seriously the caller, or when the police does not take seriously the dispatcher. They are professionals, and both lives and seconds matter.

I'm not gonna kill a 12 year old "pre-teen" boy with a replica bb gun based on that 911 call. When I see a hunter in the woods with a rifle I assume he's there to hunt game. When I see a young boy running around a park with something that looks like a gun, I assume he's there to play. No loud bangs? No "shots" fired? No one injured? He's not pointing it at me?

No. What happened is we have a cop with his gun out pointing it at the kid, safety off, finger on the trigger. Cop is screaming at the boy. Boy makes a wrong move and trigger happy cop puts two bullets into a child to "potentially" save his life. Instead of asking the kid if the gun is real the cop tells the boy to put his hands up. A twelve year old kid who is scared to death as two cops are running him down in a park pointing real guns at him about to kill him.

How do you know it is a replica?

 

[Wake]

Guns are serious business, and they need to be treated seriously.

Officers aren't obligated to be shot at in order to find out if the guns are real/loaded.

The lives of innocents and officers matter, too.

 

[Roadrunner]

Guns are serious business, and they need to be treated seriously.

Officers aren't obligated to be shot at in order to find out if the guns are real/loaded.

The lives of innocents and officers matter, too.

Apparently the rules of engagement are changing.

Cops should be shot first, return fire later, if they can.

 

[JFK_USA]

h

Something else that occured that might end up having to be adopted by law enforcement is what's already official policy in the military, you may not fire on an enemy until fired upon. A lot of officer-involved shootings could have been avoided if officers have to wait until they're fired upon. This incident, as well as a previous one where subjects both have bb-gun weapons could have avoided the deaths of the subjects by waiting to see if the weapons a) got fired at all, and b) if when fired the report of the weapon sounded like an actual firearm.

You naturally don't wanna put officer's in any more jeopardy than they already are, but at the same time these sorts of incidents bring low all law enforcement when they happen. Just as we don't want military triggering unintentional wars with other countries firing prematurely or unjustly, we might need to implement a 'do not fire unless fired upon' type policy.

How many hundreds of dead cops do you want to see.

And to further prove how fucking ignorant your post is, bullets travel faster than sound, you would not hear the one that killed you instantly.

How about people teach their kids how to act in public, and shut the fuck up when they don't and pay the price?

How about cops DO THEIR JOBS and give people a chance to surrender and not jump out shooting. Or better yet, use not lethal force first. No one wants to see ANYONE dead but the cops ARE TRAINED to deal with these situations and they shouldn't shoot first and ask questions later. We do not live in a police state where the cops get to do whatever the hell they want, they should be held to a higher standard than anyone else with a gun if they are going to get off on charges of murder and they are not .

Gee, why don't cops wait until they are shot before they draw their weapons.

False dichotomy



There are not only two choices here. Saying that cops shouldn't come out firing means that the ONLY option is that they should never draw their guns or should just sit there and be killed. The point is they should be held to a higher standard and truly asset a situation before immediately jumping out of a car firing a gun.

 

[JFK_USA]

Guns are serious business, and they need to be treated seriously.

Officers aren't obligated to be shot at in order to find out if the guns are real/loaded.

The lives of innocents and officers matter, too.

Apparently the rules of engagement are changing.

Cops should be shot first, return fire later, if they can.

See post above.

 

[Synthaholic]

At what time mark on the video does the cop order him to show his hands?

If it had sound and if it was not in compressed time then maybe you would know.

Why do you keep stating that the video time is compressed?

 

[Synthaholic]

Not wanting to risk being shot is cowardice not? Come on Mike.

Since when is being a cop without risk?

Like he said, cops are cowards these days, placing their own personal safety above their duty, that they swore to do.

 

[peach174]

At what time mark on the video does the cop order him to show his hands?

If it had sound and if it was not in compressed time then maybe you would know.

Why do you keep stating that the video time is compressed?

Because that is what the Officer said at the beginning of the video.

 

[Synthaholic]

The kid was killed because he did not respect the law and did not do what he was told.

I've asked you numerous times to show where/when he was warned.

But you keep running from that question.

That tactic must be in the Wingnut Handbook For Debate.

 

[Synthaholic]

Perception is as important as reality when it comes to lethal things.

The kid was basically pointing a gun at people, scaring them.

Like this guy?

Watch What Happens When Police Confront a White Open Carry Gun Nut Alternet

Police spent over 45 minutes talking to him, reasoning with him, to hand over his weapon.

Why the difference?

 

[Synthaholic]

How were the cops suppose to know that, when the kid took off the orange safety indicator. The kid wanted it to look like a real gun so that he could scare the people, which he did. This was a little brat who did not respect anyone or anything.

Do you just wake up every day dying to display your ignorance?

It's a BB gun, which are not required, nor come with, orange safety indicators.

Stop repeating uninformed wingnut bullshit from racists like dannyboy.

 

[Synthaholic]

Also Mike, since when is running around pointing a realistic looking weapon at people considered "playing"

The VERY VERY VERY first rule ANY competent person teaches another in regards to gun safety is NEVER EVER EVER point it at anything or anyone you aren't willing to shoot.

Haven't we ALL been taught that? Well reasonable have, and so the very first thing a REASONABLE person thinks when a weapon is pointed at them is "shit that person is willing to shoot me"

Gun safety? Yeah, if it was a gun. It wasn't.

 

[Synthaholic]

How were the cops suppose to know that, when the kid took off the orange safety indicator. The kid wanted it to look like a real gun so that he could scare the people, which he did. This was a little brat who did not respect anyone or anything.

I don't get the feeling RKM cares about that bit of evidence.

Of course not. RKM would rather believe the lies.

Then the question becomes "why?"

What is his intent behind it?

It sure seems Scummy to me.

Why don't you address the facts I've posted?

Too hard?

 

[Synthaholic]

"Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said one officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon — which was lacking the orange safety indicator usually found on the muzzle — from his waistband but had not pointed it at police. The boy did not make any verbal threats, but grabbed the replica handgun after being told to raise his hands, Deputy Chief Tomba said."

Am I missing something? Kid goes to give the gun to the cop and gets killed..

Yes, your missing that he was told to put his hands up and instead reached for the gun.

If he puts his fucking hands up he's still alive today . PERIOD.

When did he do that?

 

[peach174]

The kid was killed because he did not respect the law and did not do what he was told.

I've asked you numerous times to show where/when he was warned.

But you keep running from that question.

That tactic must be in the Wingnut Handbook For Debate.

There was no sound in the video you posted. I keep telling you that.
I am going on what the cops and news reported.
You are basing your own opinion on a video that has been compressed down in time and you don't know what really happened, because you are not seeing the whole video.
Listen to the video you posted, right at the beginning the cop says the video is compressed. Post #`96 pg. 20.