Climate change: 2015 will be the hottest year on record 'by a mile', experts say

[Vigilante]

 

[SSDD]

That is an example of a Radio telescope that does directly detect IR radiation. What do you think of that?

What do I think of that???....not much. What do I think of you?...that you are just another warmer or luke warmer who believes you have a clue but don't...

Bolometer, an instrument used to measure infrared, or heat, radiation. The bolometer is essentially a very sensitive thermometer. It can be used with a spectroscope to measure the ability of certain chemical compounds to absorb various wavelengths of infrared radiation. These measurements provide valuable information about the structures of these compounds.

What on earth would ever give you the impression that a bolometer is a radio telescope. It is a device used to measure infrared....by definition that makes it NOT a radio telescope....and note that it is cooled to a fraction of a degree above absolute zero, as I have often stated, so that it can indeed receive what you idiots like to call back radiation....were it at ambient temperature, it would not pick up such radiation because such energy does not move from cool to warm...backradiation has never been measured by an instrument at ambient temperature....by cooling it to very low temperatures nearly all frequencies of IR are moving from warm to cool just as the second law predicts and demands.

 

[SSDD]

Oh, who to believe, an anonymous poster on a 'Conservative' message board, or NASA and NOAA. Such difficult choices.

When nasa and noaa have been caught repeatedly faking data....what sort of idiot would believe anything they have to say....their, and other agencies have done such incredible damage to science with their misbehavior that it should rise to the level of criminality....it will be decades after this hoax is over before science again regains anything like real credibility.

 

[Wuwei]

What on earth would ever give you the impression that a bolometer is a radio telescope. It is a device used to measure infrared....by definition that makes it NOT a radio telescope.

The thing that gave me the impression that makes a bolometer a telescope is right in my post that you omitted in your reply:

"Notable examples of bolometers employed in submillimeter astronomy include the Herschel Space Observatory, the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope, and the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy(SOFIA)."​

Why didn't you see that bolometers are used in radio telescopes.

by cooling it to very low temperatures nearly all frequencies of IR are moving from warm to cool just as the second law predicts and demands.

Yes, the bolometer is sensitive enough to see the Cosmic Microwave Background at 2.7 degrees K. But those CMB waves still have to go through the atmosphere and hit the reflector dish at hundreds of degrees warmer in order to reflect to the the bolometer. That shows that cold radiation can strike warmer objects without disobeying the second law.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who claimed the radio telescopes we're talking about detected IR radiation? They detect radio waves.{?quote]

The very same idiots who claimed that CMB actually contacted the warmer receiver.

Do you have a source that better explains these magically detectable "too weak to be received" signals?

Take your own advice and find your own....or wallow in your ignorance....it doesn't matter to me. I have grown quite tired of your tedium....

The very same idiots who claimed that CMB actually contacted the warmer receiver.

Do you have a real source that backs your claim that they didn't actually receive CMB at the Earth based antenna?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is an example of a Radio telescope that does directly detect IR radiation. What do you think of that?

What do I think of that???....not much. What do I think of you?...that you are just another warmer or luke warmer who believes you have a clue but don't...

Bolometer, an instrument used to measure infrared, or heat, radiation. The bolometer is essentially a very sensitive thermometer. It can be used with a spectroscope to measure the ability of certain chemical compounds to absorb various wavelengths of infrared radiation. These measurements provide valuable information about the structures of these compounds.

What on earth would ever give you the impression that a bolometer is a radio telescope. It is a device used to measure infrared....by definition that makes it NOT a radio telescope....and note that it is cooled to a fraction of a degree above absolute zero, as I have often stated, so that it can indeed receive what you idiots like to call back radiation....were it at ambient temperature, it would not pick up such radiation because such energy does not move from cool to warm...backradiation has never been measured by an instrument at ambient temperature....by cooling it to very low temperatures nearly all frequencies of IR are moving from warm to cool just as the second law predicts and demands.

so that it can indeed receive what you idiots like to call back radiation

In what way does back radiation differ from good old fashioned radiation?

....by cooling it to very low temperatures nearly all frequencies of IR are moving from warm to cool just as the second law predicts and demands.

Where does the second law mention radiation?

 

[jc456]

Oh, who to believe, an anonymous poster on a 'Conservative' message board, or NASA and NOAA. Such difficult choices.

here's a link to read credit Yahoo.com:

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

excerpt:
"Study co-author Dr. Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville and U.S. Science Team Leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite, reports that real-world data from NASA's Terra satellite contradict multiple assumptions fed into alarmist computer models.

"The satellite observations suggest there is much more energy lost to space during and after warming than the climate models show," Spencer said in a July 26 University of Alabama press release. "There is a huge discrepancy between the data and the forecasts that is especially big over the oceans.""

 

[SSDD]

What on earth would ever give you the impression that a bolometer is a radio telescope. It is a device used to measure infrared....by definition that makes it NOT a radio telescope.

The thing that gave me the impression that makes a bolometer a telescope is right in my post that you omitted in your reply:

"Notable examples of bolometers employed in submillimeter astronomy include the Herschel Space Observatory, the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope, and the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy(SOFIA)."​

Why didn't you see that bolometers are used in radio telescopes.

by cooling it to very low temperatures nearly all frequencies of IR are moving from warm to cool just as the second law predicts and demands.

Yes, the bolometer is sensitive enough to see the Cosmic Microwave Background at 2.7 degrees K. But those CMB waves still have to go through the atmosphere and hit the reflector dish at hundreds of degrees warmer in order to reflect to the the bolometer. That shows that cold radiation can strike warmer objects without disobeying the second law.

And the stupidity just keeps on rolling.....did you bother to even look at your links?


The Herschel Space Observatory is a space observatory built and operated by the European Space Agency (ESA). It was active from 2009 to 2013, and was the largest infrared telescope ever launched.

It is an infrared telescope genius....NOTt a radio telescope.

The James Clerk Maxwell Telescope (JCMT) is a submillimetre-wavelength telescope at Mauna Kea Observatory in Hawaii. The telescope is near the summit of Mauna Kea at 13,425 feet (4,092 m). Its primary mirror is 15 metres (16.4 yards) across: it is the largest astronomical telescope that operates in submillimetre wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum

It detects sub millimeter wavelengths....ie far IR to microwave....again NOT a radio telescope.

Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy - The name of that one should have clued you in just a bit....but alas...it didn't. SOFIA is based on a Boeing 747SPwide-body aircraft that has been modified to include a large door in the aft fuselage that can be opened in flight to allow a 2.5 meter diameter reflecting telescope access to the sky. This telescope is designed for infrared astronomy observations in the stratosphere at altitudes of about 41,000 feet (12 km).

Again....the telescope is designed for infrared astronomy...NOT a radio telescope....try real hard to understand....a bolometer is for detecting infrared wavelengths....not radio.

Each and every one of the facilities you listed explicitly said that they were interested in the infrared....not radio....so again, what on earth would make you think that a bolometer had anything whatsoever to do with radio frequencies.

 

[SSDD]

The very same idiots who claimed that CMB actually contacted the warmer receiver.

Do you have a real source that backs your claim that they didn't actually receive CMB at the Earth based antenna?

Sure...how many do you want. The fact that you need one is proof that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about....you haven't spent 1 minute researching the topic and were talking entirely out of your ass...as usual. Here have some links...

The Universe Adventure - The Discovery of the CMB

clip: Accidental Discovery In 1964, Bell Laboratory scientists Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson were trying to detect sources of radiation that might potentially harm satellites. Their data, however, showed background noise from a microwave signal corresponding to a temperature of approximately 2.7 K that appeared to be emitted from every direction.

This Month in Physics History

clip:
Bell Labs had built a giant, 20-foot horn-shaped antenna in Holmdel, NJ in 1960 as part of a very early satellite transmission system called Echo, but the launch of the Teslar satellite a few years later made the Echo system obsolete for its intended commercial application. Penzias and Wilson seized the opportunity to use the antenna as a radio telescope to amplify and measure radio signals from the spaces between galaxies. To do so, they had to eliminate all recognizable interference from their receiver, removing the effects of radar and radio broadcasting and suppressing interference from the heart of the receiver itself by cooling it with liquid helium.

There are any number of sources that state quite clearly that it was NOT IR radiation that was detected but a resonance frequency that corresponded to a temperature.

 

[SSDD]

the horn antenna used to discover the CBR and win a serendipitous Nobel for Penxxxxxx and Wilson. I dont see any liquid helium tanks, hahahahahaha.

Whaddya know...there were liquid helium tanks....hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Perhaps if you had taken a couple of minutes to actually learn something about the instrument being used...........

This Month in Physics History (from the APS)

Sometimes the most stunning scientific discoveries are the least expected, and occur more by serendipity than by intent. Take the case of Bell Labs physicists Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who set out to map radio signals from the Milky Way and wound up being the first to measure the cosmic background radiation (CMB). Their momentous discovery made it possible to obtain information about cosmic processes that took place about 16 million years ago, and forever changed the science of cosmology, transforming it from a specialty of a select few astronomers to a "respectable" branch of physics almost overnight.

In the 1950s there were essentially two theories about the origin of the universe. One was the Steady State Theory, which held that the universe was homogenous in space and time and would remain so forever . The more controversial theory sought to incorporate Edwin Hubble's discovery in 1929 that galaxies are moving away from one another at remarkable speeds. A handful of physicists led by George Gamow argued that the separation between galaxies must have been smaller in the past, which meant that at some point the universe had once been infinitely dense. Everything in the universe had emerged from this incredibly dense and hot state in a cataclysmic explosion called "the Big Bang."

Bell Labs had built a giant, 20-foot horn-shaped antenna in Holmdel, NJ in 1960 as part of a very early satellite transmission system called Echo, but the launch of the Teslar satellite a few years later made the Echo system obsolete for its intended commercial application. Penzias and Wilson seized the opportunity to use the antenna as a radio telescope to amplify and measure radio signals from the spaces between galaxies. To do so, they had to eliminate all recognizable interference from their receiver, removing the effects of radar and radio broadcasting and suppressing interference from the heart of the receiver itself by cooling it with liquid helium.

However, when Penzias and Wilson reduced their data, they found an annoying background "noise", like static in a radio, that interfered with their observations. The noise was a uniform signal in the microwave range (with a wavelength of 7.35 centimeters), and seemed to come from all directions.

 

[SSDD]

In what way does back radiation differ from good old fashioned radiation?

Backradiation is not real....how is that for a difference?

Where does the second law mention radiation?

Questions like that are why I would rather not waste my time on you.....there is such a thing as being so obtuse as to become completely uninteresting. By asking it you are either suggesting that radiation is not a form of energy or that infrared energy is not radiation...in either case, the question is just to stupid to answer.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In what way does back radiation differ from good old fashioned radiation?

Backradiation is not real....how is that for a difference?

Where does the second law mention radiation?

Questions like that are why I would rather not waste my time on you.....there is such a thing as being so obtuse as to become completely uninteresting. By asking it you are either suggesting that radiation is not a form of energy or that infrared energy is not radiation...in either case, the question is just to stupid to answer.

Backradiation is not real....

LOL! That's funny. So how is this fake radiation detected?

Questions like that are why I would rather not waste my time on you

I agree, simple questions that you can't answer which highlight your confusion make you angry.

By asking it you are either suggesting that radiation is not a form of energy or that infrared energy is not radiation.

Simply pointing out that your claim about radiation is mentioned nowhere in the 2nd Law.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh, who to believe, an anonymous poster on a 'Conservative' message board, or NASA and NOAA. Such difficult choices.

here's a link to read credit Yahoo.com:

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

excerpt:
"Study co-author Dr. Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville and U.S. Science Team Leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite, reports that real-world data from NASA's Terra satellite contradict multiple assumptions fed into alarmist computer models.

"The satellite observations suggest there is much more energy lost to space during and after warming than the climate models show," Spencer said in a July 26 University of Alabama press release. "There is a huge discrepancy between the data and the forecasts that is especially big over the oceans.""

^ BOOKMARK IT!!!!

The oceans Ate my Warming!!

 

[SSDD]

LOL! That's funny. So how is this fake radiation detected?

It isn't....all instruments that are claimed to detect back radiation are cooled to temperatures far lower than the ambient....that means that the energy is flowing from warm to the cooler instrument....just radiation moving from warm to cool...not back radiation as claimed.

Simply pointing out that your claim about radiation is mentioned nowhere in the 2nd Law.

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Which part of that do you think excludes radiation or suggests that radiation is not included? Are you really as ignorant as your sophomoric question suggest?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The very same idiots who claimed that CMB actually contacted the warmer receiver.

Do you have a real source that backs your claim that they didn't actually receive CMB at the Earth based antenna?

Sure...how many do you want. The fact that you need one is proof that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about....you haven't spent 1 minute researching the topic and were talking entirely out of your ass...as usual. Here have some links...

The Universe Adventure - The Discovery of the CMB

clip: Accidental Discovery In 1964, Bell Laboratory scientists Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson were trying to detect sources of radiation that might potentially harm satellites. Their data, however, showed background noise from a microwave signal corresponding to a temperature of approximately 2.7 K that appeared to be emitted from every direction.

This Month in Physics History

clip:
Bell Labs had built a giant, 20-foot horn-shaped antenna in Holmdel, NJ in 1960 as part of a very early satellite transmission system called Echo, but the launch of the Teslar satellite a few years later made the Echo system obsolete for its intended commercial application. Penzias and Wilson seized the opportunity to use the antenna as a radio telescope to amplify and measure radio signals from the spaces between galaxies. To do so, they had to eliminate all recognizable interference from their receiver, removing the effects of radar and radio broadcasting and suppressing interference from the heart of the receiver itself by cooling it with liquid helium.

There are any number of sources that state quite clearly that it was NOT IR radiation that was detected but a resonance frequency that corresponded to a temperature.

Their data, however, showed background noise from a microwave signal corresponding to a temperature of approximately 2.7 K that appeared to be emitted from every direction.

Yes, they detected the signal. By receiving the signal.
From a much colder source, thru our much warmer atmosphere.

To do so, they had to eliminate all recognizable interference from their receiver, removing the effects of radar and radio broadcasting and suppressing interference from the heart of the receiver itself by cooling it with liquid helium.

Are you under the impression that the signal didn't hit the Earth until they cooled the receiver?

There are any number of sources that state quite clearly that it was NOT IR radiation that was detected but a resonance frequency

You still haven't provided a source that explains the detection of this non-radiation frequency that they received without receiving.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

LOL! That's funny. So how is this fake radiation detected?

It isn't....all instruments that are claimed to detect back radiation are cooled to temperatures far lower than the ambient....that means that the energy is flowing from warm to the cooler instrument....just radiation moving from warm to cool...not back radiation as claimed.

Simply pointing out that your claim about radiation is mentioned nowhere in the 2nd Law.

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Which part of that do you think excludes radiation or suggests that radiation is not included? Are you really as ignorant as your sophomoric question suggest?

It isn't....all instruments that are claimed to detect back radiation are cooled to temperatures far lower than the ambient....

So all the IR emitted by the Earth's surface heads only in one direction, out to space, UNLESS we point a cooler detector toward the sky which causes these strictly out bound IR waves to suddenly reverse direction and travel toward the receiver?

WOW! Do these waves have a rear view mirror?
How do they suddenly notice the cooler receiver?

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Thanks for the proof that the Second Law doesn't mention radiation.

Which part of that do you think excludes radiation or suggests that radiation is not included?

The fact that the word "radiation" is missing.

 

[Wuwei]

Each and every one of the facilities you listed explicitly said that they were interested in the infrared....not radio....so again, what on earth would make you think that a bolometer had anything whatsoever to do with radio frequencies.

You may have forgotten that the M in CMB means microwave. Microwave refers to wavelengths in electromagnetic radiation. Electromagnetic radiation in the micron region is often referred to as the radio spectrum as opposed, for example, to light in the visible spectrum which is also electromagnetic radiation.

The literature often refers to bolometers as detecting radio frequencies. However, if the term “radio telescope” confuses you then “infrared telescope”, I agree, is a more accurate term.

The bolometer was used in the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope to see the Cosmic Microwave Background at 2.7 degrees K. But those CMB waves still have to go through the atmosphere hundreds of degrees warmer and hit the reflector dish hundreds of degrees warmer in order to reflect to the the bolometer.

That shows that very cold radiation can strike warmer objects without disobeying the second law. Do you disagree?

 

[SSDD]

Yes, they detected the signal. By receiving the signal.
From a much colder source, thru our much warmer atmosphere.

They detected a microwave signal that corresponded to a thermal signal....not CMB itself...sorry if this is to difficult for you to understand.

You still haven't provided a source that explains the detection of this non-radiation frequency that they received without receiving.

[/quote]

Sorry you are unable to differentiate between a resonance signal and an actual signal....not my job to fix that sort of ignorance...there are plenty of sources out there where you can remedy your ignorance if you are so motivated.

 

[SSDD]

So all the IR emitted by the Earth's surface heads only in one direction, out to space, UNLESS we point a cooler detector toward the sky which causes these strictly out bound IR waves to suddenly reverse direction and travel toward the receiver?

Do ir thermometers state which direction the IR is moving?.....Are you under the impression that IR thermometers can't detect outbound radiation?

 

[SSDD]

Each and every one of the facilities you listed explicitly said that they were interested in the infrared....not radio....so again, what on earth would make you think that a bolometer had anything whatsoever to do with radio frequencies.

You may have forgotten that the M in CMB means microwave. Microwave refers to wavelengths in electromagnetic radiation. Electromagnetic radiation in the micron region is often referred to as the radio spectrum as opposed, for example, to light in the visible spectrum which is also electromagnetic radiation.

The literature often refers to bolometers as detecting radio frequencies. However, if the term “radio telescope” confuses you then “infrared telescope”, I agree, is a more accurate term.

The bolometer was used in the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope to see the Cosmic Microwave Background at 2.7 degrees K. But those CMB waves still have to go through the atmosphere hundreds of degrees warmer and hit the reflector dish hundreds of degrees warmer in order to reflect to the the bolometer.

That shows that very cold radiation can strike warmer objects without disobeying the second law. Do you disagree?

Sorry guy...just grow up and admit that you are wrong and didn't know the difference between IR and radio radiation. And if you bothered to read about the instruments you listed, you would also see that they are all cooled to just above absolute zero....