collective punishments

[Phoenall]

FUCK YOU... YOU P..CK !! How about condemning the Pieces of SCUM who kidnapped those Israelis??

If they were kidnapped, then I condemn the kidnappers.

Now how 'bout you condemning Israel's practice of administrative detention?

Why the people are in a known condition and a known place, so what is there to condemn. If they weren't terrorists then they would not be in detention

 

[Phoenall]

Ok billo, the litre of the band, since you have engaged me, let me go back and put this into some perspective so all the readers can see the back story and to see if you actually can give me more than a one line reply.

"He" as you called Hossfly above was trying to refute or ask for more clarification and/or evidence of the claim made by amity at the end of this post here (Hossfly's original quote included):

To which you replied with your famous one line style (and with most of the relevant info, i.e. the portion of amity's quote in Hossfly's post removed from your quote):

So, the burden of proof (although not quite in the subject of this thread) falls on amity to prove the "3,000+ Palestinians killed on occasion" portion of her post.

Clear as mud. I am sure it is. Let's see if you even respond.

WTF do you mean, "...if I even respond"? Dude, I don't run from nothing. Especially, the Israeli kiss-asses that frequent this website.

Now, since amity didn't provide a link in her post to back up that claim, then you're right, the burden of proof is on her to back it up. Until she does, Hoss is under no obligation to provide proof for his objection.

With that being said, here's a few numbers for you...

Thank you for proving that amity LIED yet again, and that you cant do comparisons to save your life.

 

[Phoenall]

Translation; The end of the Jewish State. That will never happen.

It'll NEVER happen? It HAS to happen. Even Rome wasn't eternal.

Then the end of Palestine and the Palestinians also HAS TO HAPPEN

 

[Phoenall]

How about that the Israelis remove their butts from Palestine in exchange for peace?

Make up your mind. This is what everyone here has accused you of, yet on another thread you admitted there that it is too late to ask millions of Jews to leave.

What is it? Really? For you? Do you want peace, or hate the Jews and want them off the land?

They have to leave the occupied territories of course, all sane people are agreed. If they can play nice with the other kids they can stay in the 1948 borders as far as I am concerned. But you really don't need my permission. You are going to need the permission of those whose land that is.

No 1948 borders is there according to the palestinians so they will stay were they are. As for the occupation when the Palestinians stop occupying Jewish land then the Jews will stop occupying Palestinian land.

The land was never Palestinian in the first place, it was ottoman until 1919 when it was handed to the allies as SPOILS OF WAR. They being the legal owners under INTERNATIONAL LAW at the time had the legal right to give the land to whoever they wished. So do find a document that gives the land to the Palestinians that was not a breach of INTERNATIONAL LAW of the time.

 

[Phoenall]

FUCK YOU... YOU P..CK !! How about condemning the Pieces of SCUM who kidnapped those Israelis??

They were settlers!

ON JEWISH OWNED LAND WITH TITLE DEEDS TO BACK IT UP, does this mean that Israel can kidnap Palestinian children who are squatting on Jewish owned land in East jerusalem

 

[Phoenall]

138 countries and the UN recognize Palestine as a state.

What does that mean?

Can you tell us when Palestine was recognized as a member of the U.N. the same way that Israel is?

You are missing the point.

The UN cannot create states nor can it bestow legitimacy. It can only render political opinions on such matters. Membership in the UN is meaningless to international law. Switzerland did not become a member of the UN until 2002. Does that mean that it was not a country before then?

Are you saying that Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt are not legal states? because they were formed in exactly the same manner as Israel and Palestine..............

 

[Phoenall]

Are you saying the Israel and international law are mutually exclusive?

That if one exists the other cannot?

You posted that the " Two State Solution" is not sanctioned by " International Law" . When I posted the link about Hamas accepting the " borders" but not Israel and their goal was to liberate ALL of " Palestine" you cheered .

Why is "liberate" a dirty word for you?

What do you find objectionable about liberation?

Explain how imposing a two state solution is sanctioned by international law. I don't see any compliance.

Because the concept went into International Law when it was first broached by the UN in 1947.

Your version of "liberate" includes the destruction of Israel and the mass murder of 6 million Jews. ( the PLO definition of Palestinian Jew has ended because no Jew if 164 years old )

 

[Phoenall]

Where's your evidence that they "sowed" anything?

The almost constant belligerence shown by the Palestinians, so much so that even the UN have mentioned it having to stop as part of the peace deal in every resolution issued regarding Palestine.

Could you give me some numbers?

242, 338 for starters

 

[Phoenall]

Find me ONE credible source that says the Katyn massacre was done by the soviets! That is ludicrous. Everyone who has known it was Germans. The survivors said it was Germans. Witnesses said it was Germans.

Are you actually sitting there defending the Nazis?

The soviets have admitted doing it, and every western nation should be demanding they be executed for the massacre.

 

[Phoenall]

Its coming....

Lets just say that the world has turned against the Palestinians for kidnapping 3 children, and Israel is given free reign to retaliate as much as they want. Lets hope for the Palestinians sake that the 3 boys are still alive, otherwise there will be a few Katyns on the Palestinians is reprisals.

That's why you need to get out of Palestine. You just threatened to kill multiple thousands of innocent Palestinians.

Haven't the Palestinians threatened to kill 6 million Jews in their struggle to gain complete domination.

 

[Phoenall]

And everytine you produce these videos there is no actual evidence of what you claim.

Other than evidence you see in the video, right in front of your lying, dumbass face.

Just like the "bullet" pictured heading towards a youth who was not even shot.

Oh, he was shot alright. He was murdered by the IDF. The video proves it.

There's nothing you can say that will change that.

Now which weapon fires a tennis ball size round ?

If you're referring to the picture I posted, the round wasn't the size of a tennis ball.

As I said no evidence at all


By a round the size of a tennis ball, which would have taken his back of on exit.


It wasn't some 9mm round as that would have been impossible to see at that picture size. The object was at least 2 inches across and looked just like the one on the door behind the youth allegedly shot in the back. You know the one running towards the projectile. Must be good these Israelis to invent a round that can shrink while it is doing a 180 so it can hit a youth in the back.

 

[Phoenall]

Which Palestine would that be then ?

Stop playing word games, asshole!

The territories they've been occupying since 1967.

Now fuck off!

You do know that there are four descriptions of Palestine don't you ?

 

[proudveteran06]

This whole question is not a question of peace.

Peace is not a GOAL. Peace is a way to ACHIEVE the goal. That's what the deluded leftists don't get. 'Don't you want peace'? they ask all the time, and the honest answer is "As right now? NO!'

Because right now the people I see on the other side are not people I'm interested in making peace with. Fatah are not our friends, the incitement there is not different than Hamas, and their terrorists and hate is no different than Hamas.

Why on earth would I want to make peace with terrorists?

No-body wishes war, that is correct, but say "to make peace with them" is laughable. We can make peace with people who gave up the idea of our demise. And not only that's not the situation, but their determination to destroy us is on the uprise.

As I said, PEACE is not the goal. We all wish the times when we can live normally. That can happen with peace or with all out war. We all hope it will be done, one day, through peace. But We're not going to sacrifice ourself and our peace BOWING for said peace; Especially if it's a fake one.

That depends on your definition of peace.

You will never hear anyone mention justice or international law.

What kind of peace can there be if it is not based on justice and international law?

It is a given that any peace will be in accordance with International Law and will administer Justice to all parties. Or do you think only one party should reap any benefits from any peace ?

He believes that only the Palestinians should benifit. Ask why Israel should agree to have their Country annexed to Palestine one day and there will be no response.

 

[Phoenall]

Apart from the Palestinians saying that they had done it............... good enough evidence for a court to convict then.

No one has claimed responsibility, moron.

I swear, you're the biggest fucking liar on this website.

Try again as it was announced the very next day that a Palestinian group had accepted responsibility for the kidnappings.

 

[Phoenall]

So when will the Palestinians stop the hostilities as a pretext for land grabbing.......

When Israel ends the occupation.

This has been told to you many times, but you're too much of a coward to remember it.

The occupation is legal according to the ICJ, so why should Israel end it

 

[Phoenall]

So you can bring evidence to the board to show that Israeli's are still living in gaza ?


Or are you talking about the LEGAL separation barrier erectged to keep ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS out of Israel. There is no law that says Israel must allow anyone to enter their country and they can take what ever measures they see fit to stop the incursions.

Israel maintains "effective control" of the area and that satisfies the definition of "occupation".

Only to barracks room lawyers, the ICJ say otherwisw

 

[P F Tinmore]

The almost constant belligerence shown by the Palestinians, so much so that even the UN have mentioned it having to stop as part of the peace deal in every resolution issued regarding Palestine.

Could you give me some numbers?

242, 338 for starters

Where does it say that in those resolutions?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You posted that the " Two State Solution" is not sanctioned by " International Law" . When I posted the link about Hamas accepting the " borders" but not Israel and their goal was to liberate ALL of " Palestine" you cheered .

Why is "liberate" a dirty word for you?

What do you find objectionable about liberation?

Explain how imposing a two state solution is sanctioned by international law. I don't see any compliance.

Because the concept went into International Law when it was first broached by the UN in 1947.

Your version of "liberate" includes the destruction of Israel and the mass murder of 6 million Jews. ( the PLO definition of Palestinian Jew has ended because no Jew if 164 years old )

Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation.

What actual law did it reference?

 

[RoccoR]

amity1844, et al,

Where is the Law of Proportional Response spelled-out?

Since I frequently argue that what the debate needs is a sense of proportion, I thought I would post this to show what the fallout has been since the three young Yeshiva students went missing:
...

... ...

... ... ...

(QUESTION)

What is the benefit of adopting a doctrine of Proportionate Response?

• Does it justify a response?
• Does a proportional response render a deterrence into the future?
• Does it add or subtract the morality of the response?

What is the goal and objective behind a "proportional response?"

When you have two opposing squads, facing of each other:

• Is a "proportional response" the firing of bullet per bullet?
• Is a "proportional response" that you must wait for a death before your squad can inflict a death?

When a criminal is to be apprehended:

• Since it is only one criminal - the proportional response is to send only one law enforcement officer to make the apprehension?

(OBSERVATION)

Peace among nations is arrived at when the cost of war becomes ovewhelming. Racism, bigotry and hate are overcome when the cost of racism, bigotry and hate becomes too great for a society to bear.

As long as nations and peoples perceive the cost of war as acceptable, then we will have war, racism, bigotry and hate.

It interesting to note that the hate directed at Israel and Jews is never referred to as ‘disproportionate.’ It is also true that the lopsided voting record against Israel by the United Nations Human Rights Commission (an assembly that includes some of the most oppressive and failed nation-states in the world) is never referred to as ‘disproportionate’ despite the admonition of three successive United Nations Secretaries- General. The same applies to United Nations General Assembly, now a forum for over the top racism, bigotry and hate- none of which seems to qualify as ‘disproportionate.’

None of the institutionalized hate and bigotry of the Arab world is ‘disproportionate.’ In fact, the Arabs will tell you that there are not enough calls to genocide and there is not enough hate and racism directed at Israel and Jews. In schools, media and from the pulpit, calls for genocide, bigotry and hate are considered ‘proportionate’ and reasonable.

SOURCE: December 31, 2008

To illustrate the difference between a proportional response and a measured response think of the following scenario: In a proportional response an intruder is attempting to break into your house and is armed with a .22 caliber pistol that holds 15 rounds. Therefore, in response you get your own .22 with a 15 round clip to confront him. You fire no more rounds or generate no more wounds to him than he does to you. Conversely, in a measured response you simply keep count of the number of entry wounds you feel you need to place in the intruder prior to any cease fire. My personal preference is that the number of holes should be directly related to the number of rounds in my clip.

The tit-for-tat diplomacy of proportional response is a dangerous concept. It makes potential victims out of even the strongest of nations. That’s because it allows your enemies the opportunity to enjoy equal footing regardless of any real strength differentials.

SOURCE: MarkEtterling on May 29, 2014

(COMMENT)

In dealing with Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Terrorists, you don't use a "proportional response," and you don't use a "measured response." You use and "effective response" that deals with the threat at hand, and sends the message of deterrence. If the previous response was not strong enough to get the message through to the HoAP, you increase the impact of the response.

If HAMAS fires one rocket, you fire rockets back until the gun tubes are destroyed.

Palestinians Celebrate Kidnapping of Three Israeli ‘Shalits’

The Palestinians have launched a full-fledged social media campaign celebrating the recent kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers as a “heroic” act and dubbing the hostages as the “three Shalits,” a reference to …
The Washington Free Beacon · 6/18/2014​

Palestinians Harass Jews Visiting Temple Mount, Gloat Over Abduction of Israeli Teens
Jun. 26, 2014 by Sharona Schwartz

“Hundreds of Muslim men and women and a Hamas organized summer camp for Muslim children greeted the Jews with thunderous jeers and curses, waving their shoes and holding up their newly minted obscenity: a three-finger ‘victory’ sign, signifying their gloating pride in the kidnapping of the three Jewish boys. For more than one hour the Muslim mob followed and lunged at the Jewish worshipers,” wrote the Temple Institute, an organization dedicated to teaching about the ancient temple and one day rebuilding it according to biblical specifications.​

Let the HoAP dance and gloat. But don't let them hide behind the "Proportional Response" argument of the virtual victim. The Palestinians that support such atrocities are just as responsible for the despicable crime as the cowardly HoAP the carried it off.

Israel needs to tighten the ring around them even more; in the name of crime prevention.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Its coming....

Lets just say that the world has turned against the Palestinians for kidnapping 3 children, and Israel is given free reign to retaliate as much as they want. Lets hope for the Palestinians sake that the 3 boys are still alive, otherwise there will be a few Katyns on the Palestinians is reprisals.

That's why you need to get out of Palestine. You just threatened to kill multiple thousands of innocent Palestinians.

As you have said you reap what you sow, and they have sown violence, bloodshed and war since 1929 when they massacred the Jews in Hebron.