Colorado puts 25% tax on marijuana

[Vox]

Annual deficit? What annual deficit? Won't be long before the other states follow suit, like they did with casinos and the lottery. Fed is going to have to soon too, because the rich would rather have stoners pay off the national debt.

Colorado voters approve 25 percent taxes on recreational marijuana

wrong. marijuana will just go underground as it was before.
Overtaxing results in the same activity as ban does - the contraband will flourish.

And some of us warned of exactly that outcome.
Look at NYC, which raised taxes on cigarettes massively. The result is a huge underground economy of black market cigs so big that cops don't even arrest people for selling them in the subways anymore.

well that is a standard law of balance
old as the earth is

 

[Vox]

It is "idiocy" to think that taxed, legal weed will be more expensive than illegal, black market weed.

of course it will be more expensive.
otherwise black market does not have any reason to exist - what is it going to propose to the consumer which he already does not have?

 

[Connery]

Try $50, not $250 - at least that's what all the ads I see say.

My prescription is from my GP, though. It's pretty silly to act like you somehow speak for "legitimate doctors".

There are two "clinics" in the same block on Wilshire. They both have staff "doctors" who will, for $250.00 provide a patient with a letter of prescription so they can treat their shoe blisters with marijuana therapy.

I'm familiar with the "clinics" you're referring to. Around here they're $50.

$250 or $50 I am going there to get a letter and conduct some research.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It is "idiocy" to think that taxed, legal weed will be more expensive than illegal, black market weed.

of course it will be more expensive.
otherwise black market does not have any reason to exist - what is it going to purpose to the consumer which he already does not have?

You're very helpfully making my point for me.

Thanks.

 

[Vox]

It is "idiocy" to think that taxed, legal weed will be more expensive than illegal, black market weed.

of course it will be more expensive.
otherwise black market does not have any reason to exist - what is it going to purpose to the consumer which he already does not have?

You're very helpfully making my point for me.

Thanks.

you don't see the contradiction to your own words?

Because black market EXISTS.

If black market prices would not have been cheaper than official ones - it would have died.
Which is not happening.

 

[Vox]

Black market exists in 2 situations only - if the product they propose is impossible to find legally or if the product they propose is CHEAPER than the legal one.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

of course it will be more expensive.
otherwise black market does not have any reason to exist - what is it going to purpose to the consumer which he already does not have?

You're very helpfully making my point for me.

Thanks.

you don't see the contradiction to your own words?

Because black market EXISTS.

If black market prices would not have been cheaper than official ones - it would have died.
Which is not happening.

Does a significant "black market" exist in Colorado for weed?

That's the only place relevant to this discussion in America.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Black market exists in 2 situations only - if the product they propose is impossible to find legally or if the product they propose is CHEAPER than the legal one.

I would like you to show me any evidence at all of a significant black market existing for marijuana in a place where weed is legal for recreational use.

 

[Vox]

Black market exists in 2 situations only - if the product they propose is impossible to find legally or if the product they propose is CHEAPER than the legal one.

I would like you to show me any evidence at all of a significant black market existing for marijuana in a place where weed is legal for recreational use.

no, it is you who have to show me it does not exist.

black market is what it is - underground.

supposedly non-existent.

there is no proof of any "market" whatsoever in NJ, for example. Does not mean you can not buy weed there - easily.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Black market exists in 2 situations only - if the product they propose is impossible to find legally or if the product they propose is CHEAPER than the legal one.

I would like you to show me any evidence at all of a significant black market existing for marijuana in a place where weed is legal for recreational use.

no, it is you who have to show me it does not exist.

You think that I have to prove a universal negative?



That's not how it works. You made a positive claim, the burden of proof falls on you.

black market is what it is - underground.

supposedly non-existent.

there is no proof of any "market" whatsoever in NJ, for example. Does not mean you can not buy weed there - easily.

Let me make sure I've got this straight.

You are claiming that a significant black market, in which weed is sold cheaper than legal sources, exists in Colorado - and that the complete lack of any evidence that it exists is in itself evidence that it exists?

I'm interested in how you're going to de-tangle that.

 

[eflatminor]

The smokers still pay far less than when it was illegal, even with the new tax.

Disagree. I know the cannabis market first hand in California and can tell you that the legal market is priced HIGHER than the underground market. The reason people paid a bit more was due to the quality and selection of product that dispensaries offered. People also joined dispensaries in an effort to support legalization. However, many, many people that don't have the financial resources (or that don't want to end up on the Fed's radar) continue to buy in the black market.

A 25% tax will only ensure the underground market thrives. That's for sure.



Strongly disagree. I suspect they will collect less revenue than they would with a normal sales tax rate. And even if they do collect more in revenue, they'll also pay more in policing and incarceration because I guarantee you the underground market will increase with a onerous tax.

It's all good news and I don't get why the Feds wouldn't follow suit.

Because we don't need a national sales tax on cannabis or anything for that matter. We need to spend less money and live within our means.

I am a medical cannabis user living in San Francisco.

My very high-end legal weed is cheaper than any black market weed I've ever purchased in my life.

Where are you getting your information from?

Then you were getting ripped off. Sucks to be you I guess.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Disagree. I know the cannabis market first hand in California and can tell you that the legal market is priced HIGHER than the underground market. The reason people paid a bit more was due to the quality and selection of product that dispensaries offered. People also joined dispensaries in an effort to support legalization. However, many, many people that don't have the financial resources (or that don't want to end up on the Fed's radar) continue to buy in the black market.

A 25% tax will only ensure the underground market thrives. That's for sure.



Strongly disagree. I suspect they will collect less revenue than they would with a normal sales tax rate. And even if they do collect more in revenue, they'll also pay more in policing and incarceration because I guarantee you the underground market will increase with a onerous tax.



Because we don't need a national sales tax on cannabis or anything for that matter. We need to spend less money and live within our means.

I am a medical cannabis user living in San Francisco.

My very high-end legal weed is cheaper than any black market weed I've ever purchased in my life.

Where are you getting your information from?

Then you were getting ripped off. Sucks to be you I guess.

That's a non-answer.


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[ScienceRocks]

One of the reasons America has the largest percentage of its population in PRISON of any nation is because of the war on drugs.

What a prison state. What a fucking sick joke.

 

[KevinWestern]

You're very helpfully making my point for me.

Thanks.

you don't see the contradiction to your own words?

Because black market EXISTS.

If black market prices would not have been cheaper than official ones - it would have died.
Which is not happening.

Does a significant "black market" exist in Colorado for weed?

That's the only place relevant to this discussion in America.

Actually, the legal marijuana market doesn't open until 2014 in Colorado. A significant black market does exist, lol.

But anyways I agree with you and would estimate that we'd need to give it a good five to ten years, but after that the black market will completely disappear.

I think there's two reasons for this. The first is convenience and safety; it's always easier to purchase from a store legally than it is to call up some shady dealer and meet him by his car, etc, so he can hand you an unlabeled plastic baggie of pot like you're some low life criminal.

Secondly, I believe (despite the tax) the price of marijuana will eventually fall with legalization for a number of reasons including MUCH lower shipping costs, no need to pay folks premiums for putting their ass on the line, no need to ship physical money around, etc. Despite the aspect of regulations (of course), things are generally a lot easier to make/sell when you don't have to worry about plants getting shut down, you can hire the best employees (not just ones interested in an extended life of crime), you can establish relationships out in the open, you can advertise, and you can sell at convenient locations.

I mean come on, when was the last time you or anyone you know purchased beer from an illegal bootlegger? Anyone?! Our best precedent is that of the alcohol industry, and as we can see today virtually 99.9% of the population makes their regular purchases from legal sellers.

 

[Katzndogz]

One of the reasons America has the largest percentage of its population in PRISON of any nation is because of the war on drugs.

What a prison state. What a fucking sick joke.

It's because we have an extremely high percentage of people who think they have a right to commit crimes. Sometimes the only way to put the assholes away is for a bs drug charge.

 

[Article 15]

I guess we must be idiots.
What part of "if you add 25% to the price of something you make it radically more expensive than the untaxed item" do you not understand?

If you add a 25% tax to an 1/8th of an ounce of weed costing $30, it will still be less than the $65 it costs on the black market.

Why would the black market stuff cost so much when legal stuff is available for less? It is impossible. Ergo, you are making shit up.

^World class idiot.

 

[JohnA]

I think all states should do this, make it legal...tax it like cigarettes. They're never going to stop people from smoking it anyway, and it's safer than alcohol!

Michigan passed the medical marijuana law in 2010....yet even if you have a card and your employer finds out you smoked it, they can still fire you. Makes no sense! Now there's someone (some Representative) I just read about that wants Michigan to make it so people can buy it at their local pharmacy (with a prescription of course). If your own doctor prescribes it, I wonder if your employer could still fire you? Guess I just don't understand that part of it!!

well you7 can buy cigarettes
at a local store and alcohol as well so why not marijuana ?

if you are under the influence of alcohol or stoned of course you can be fired bisiness owners have rights as well .

 

[Pogo]

I would like you to show me any evidence at all of a significant black market existing for marijuana in a place where weed is legal for recreational use.

no, it is you who have to show me it does not exist.

You think that I have to prove a universal negative?



That's not how it works. You made a positive claim, the burden of proof falls on you.

^^ He's right Vox. And look at his avi ---- he's got a teapot.

 

[JohnA]

And to you this comes as a surprise?
I have been saying this for years. That marijuana is/was illegal only because states and the federal government had not yet figured out the best way to tax it.
Like anything else. First make it legal. Then regulate it. Then tax its purchase and use.
Booze, tobacco, gambling....Now its Pot. Big deal.

Product is a lot easier to tax than service.
Prostitution can't break the ground to legal as easily as drugs can. And prostitution has been around a lot longer.

It's easy to legalize prostitution. It's just impossible to keep illegal whores from operating.

prostitution is legal in some parts of nevada there is no *illegal prostitution* in those counties
would nt be any need for it.
legalised alcohol and the *illegal * speakeasys went away.

prostitution should not be illegal anyway **where is the crime ???

 

[The Rabbi]

of course it will be more expensive.
otherwise black market does not have any reason to exist - what is it going to purpose to the consumer which he already does not have?

You're very helpfully making my point for me.

Thanks.

you don't see the contradiction to your own words?

Because black market EXISTS.

If black market prices would not have been cheaper than official ones - it would have died.
Which is not happening.

The Doctor lives in an alternative universe where marijuana clinics charge 1/5th of what they actually do and legal mj costs 1/2 of what illegal stuff does, pushing out the illegal stuff, which is still sold.
Yeah, I dont get it either.
The laws of economics work whether the product is legal or illegal.
In this case, there has been an illegal market for years. Does anyone imagine the network of illegal sellers and buyers is just going to dry up and blow away when they are paying prices 25% under legal sources? Esp since the penalties for illegal dealing are the same as sales tax evasion.