Communication between God and man

[Avatar4321]

Atheists are expected to take as fact too many things that can't be proven. Sorry, can't do it. That's gullible and a god would appreciate intelligence.

We don't expect you to accept anything as fact. Rather we invite you and all men to come learn for themselves. Listen with an open mind and heart and study these things out. The amazing thing about the Book of Mormon is that it's the only book I know of that literally invites and challenges readers to seek God to know for themselves whether its true.

But you have to be open to the possibility that you can know. Because if you conclude that no one can know something, everyone else might learn it and you might be the only one who doesn't.

 

[Meriweather]

Many Christians lie, have lied and will lie again. So liars get into heaven? I mean, if you are going to do it again how sorry are you really?

And if you got an abortion and you would do it again, but you are sorry, does it matter that you don't get another abortion? The truth is if you had to do it over again you would get the abortion. Many many Christian women have gotten abortions and have asked for forgiveness but bfd after the fact. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyways. So do they get a free pass?

Catholic teaching emphasizes that no one but God can know who, if anyone is in hell. God is Judge, and God judges what is truly in the human heart. This being said, let's get to your examples.

If someone is a continual liar, there has been no repentance--no turning away from the sin. Sorry doesn't count. Catholics are fond of saying, "God doesn't send people to hell--they choose to go there." If someone is a true deceiver, they will loathe an afterlife where deceit cannot exist. They may prefer an afterlife where they can continue to deceive--an afterlife completely apart from God who cannot be deceived.

Since abortion is taking a life, it automatically places one in danger of hell. Again, sorry is absolutely meaningless without repentance. Repentance is regretting the first abortion and never going through another abortion again, no matter what the circumstances. "I'll do what I want and ask for forgiveness later," is a broad, dangerous route to take. Jesus teaches the road to eternal life is narrow and few find it. Abortion kind of places a person on the broad road and perhaps makes it all the more unlikely that the narrow way will ever be found.

Keep in mind, Catholic teaching is not as much about the afterlife as it seems to be with Protestants. Catholic teaching is more about eternal life than it is about the afterlife. Eternal life begins right here, right now as a way of living in this life which extends into the afterlife. Abortion and lies prevent one from living eternal life, because eternal life is defined as obedience to God--working to discern the will of God and to follow it. This life (eternal life) is the narrow way. I am not so concerned about how abortion, lies, and other great sins affect the afterlife, as how they affect one's eternal life. Sins come with consequences and most of the consequences happen in this life.

 

[RodISHI]

Catholic teaching emphasizes that no one but God can know who, if anyone is in hell. God is Judge, and God judges what is truly in the human heart. This being said, let's get to your examples.

If someone is a continual liar, there has been no repentance--no turning away from the sin. Sorry doesn't count. Catholics are fond of saying, "God doesn't send people to hell--they choose to go there." If someone is a true deceiver, they will loathe an afterlife where deceit cannot exist. They may prefer an afterlife where they can continue to deceive--an afterlife completely apart from God who cannot be deceived.

Since abortion is taking a life, it automatically places one in danger of hell. Again, sorry is absolutely meaningless without repentance. Repentance is regretting the first abortion and never going through another abortion again, no matter what the circumstances. "I'll do what I want and ask for forgiveness later," is a broad, dangerous route to take. Jesus teaches the road to eternal life is narrow and few find it. Abortion kind of places a person on the broad road and perhaps makes it all the more unlikely that the narrow way will ever be found.

Keep in mind, Catholic teaching is not as much about the afterlife as it seems to be with Protestants. Catholic teaching is more about eternal life than it is about the afterlife. Eternal life begins right here, right now as a way of living in this life which extends into the afterlife. Abortion and lies prevent one from living eternal life, because eternal life is defined as obedience to God--working to discern the will of God and to follow it. This life (eternal life) is the narrow way. I am not so concerned about how abortion, lies, and other great sins affect the afterlife, as how they affect one's eternal life. Sins come with consequences and most of the consequences happen in this life.

Judgment is in the world.
Jesus crucified his own flesh (desires). Paul died daily to his and renewed his mind.

 

[Vandalshandle]

God told me that Mormons are a bunch of delusional nuts stuck in a cult. he isn't angry about it. He finds it rather amusing, especially the underwear....

 

[sealybobo]

Many Christians lie, have lied and will lie again. So liars get into heaven? I mean, if you are going to do it again how sorry are you really?

And if you got an abortion and you would do it again, but you are sorry, does it matter that you don't get another abortion? The truth is if you had to do it over again you would get the abortion. Many many Christian women have gotten abortions and have asked for forgiveness but bfd after the fact. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyways. So do they get a free pass?

Catholic teaching emphasizes that no one but God can know who, if anyone is in hell. God is Judge, and God judges what is truly in the human heart. This being said, let's get to your examples.

If someone is a continual liar, there has been no repentance--no turning away from the sin. Sorry doesn't count. Catholics are fond of saying, "God doesn't send people to hell--they choose to go there." If someone is a true deceiver, they will loathe an afterlife where deceit cannot exist. They may prefer an afterlife where they can continue to deceive--an afterlife completely apart from God who cannot be deceived.

Since abortion is taking a life, it automatically places one in danger of hell. Again, sorry is absolutely meaningless without repentance. Repentance is regretting the first abortion and never going through another abortion again, no matter what the circumstances. "I'll do what I want and ask for forgiveness later," is a broad, dangerous route to take. Jesus teaches the road to eternal life is narrow and few find it. Abortion kind of places a person on the broad road and perhaps makes it all the more unlikely that the narrow way will ever be found.

Keep in mind, Catholic teaching is not as much about the afterlife as it seems to be with Protestants. Catholic teaching is more about eternal life than it is about the afterlife. Eternal life begins right here, right now as a way of living in this life which extends into the afterlife. Abortion and lies prevent one from living eternal life, because eternal life is defined as obedience to God--working to discern the will of God and to follow it. This life (eternal life) is the narrow way. I am not so concerned about how abortion, lies, and other great sins affect the afterlife, as how they affect one's eternal life. Sins come with consequences and most of the consequences happen in this life.

Sure they are sorry after the fact but the honest truth is, even if they cry and truly feel "sorry" for the abortion, if they had to do it all again they would. Hence why they went through with it in the first place.

And god knows this if he can look into their hearts. Hell, I even know most of them say they are sorry and yes they feel sorry and sad for killing their unborn baby, but god damn it if they were in the same situation they'd do it again. But still they cry and ask for forgiveness and sincerely believe they are sorry, but remember, if they could go back in time they'd go through with it the same as they did the first time.

I'm sure they felt guilty walking in too but they did what was right for them at the time. They know you only get one shot at this life and to be honest, who even really knows if heaven and hell are real. I'm not going to fuck up my life over a fairytale is what they probably think. That's why most Christians are the most sorry half hearted christians who were just born into it. They don't really believe, they don't practice, they don't even give it much thought. That's the majority of Christians. Little do they know they aren't doing enough to go to heaven. They think they are and they call themselves Christians but are they really? The church wants them in the pews but are they REALLY saved?

 

[sealybobo]

God told me that Mormons are a bunch of delusional nuts stuck in a cult. he isn't angry about it. He finds it rather amusing, especially the underwear....

It seems talking to god makes you crazy because Joseph Smith asked god which religion he should join and god said NONE OF THEM because they are all corrupt.

Had Joseph stopped there he would have been right. But instead he said god then told him to start his own church. Nice. He must have been a great con man

 

[Meriweather]

Sure they are sorry after the fact but the honest truth is, even if they cry and truly feel "sorry" for the abortion, if they had to do it all again they would. Hence why they went through with it in the first place.

And god knows this if he can look into their hearts. Hell, I even know most of them say they are sorry and yes they feel sorry and sad for killing their unborn baby, but god damn it if they were in the same situation they'd do it again. But still they cry and ask for forgiveness and sincerely believe they are sorry, but remember, if they could go back in time they'd go through with it the same as they did the first time.

I'm sure they felt guilty walking in too but they did what was right for them at the time. They know you only get one shot at this life and to be honest, who even really knows if heaven and hell are real. I'm not going to fuck up my life over a fairytale is what they probably think. That's why most Christians are the most sorry half hearted christians who were just born into it. They don't really believe, they don't practice, they don't even give it much thought. That's the majority of Christians. Little do they know they aren't doing enough to go to heaven. They think they are and they call themselves Christians but are they really? The church wants them in the pews but are they REALLY saved?

The Protestant term "saved" is meaningless to me. It seems to be a termed coined by Protestants that they equate to a heavenly afterlife. It seems that is what religion is to them--a heavenly afterlife, and that what goes on here isn't that important. Perhaps that is all it is to some Catholics who are not well versed as well. I don't know.

In Catholicism, existence in this life is not about being "saved" for existence in the next. It is about living a redeemed life right now so that we might live life to the fullest. That's the reasoning behind the terms "practicing Catholic" and non-practicing Catholic.

In my opinion, "saved" has nothing to do with anything. The narrow way and redemption of life here on earth is what it is all about and what all should be focused upon.

 

[Meriweather]

God told me that Mormons are a bunch of delusional nuts stuck in a cult. he isn't angry about it. He finds it rather amusing, especially the underwear....

I think you must be making that up; in my extremely, very, very, very limited experience, it doesn't sound like God at all.

 

[sealybobo]

Sure they are sorry after the fact but the honest truth is, even if they cry and truly feel "sorry" for the abortion, if they had to do it all again they would. Hence why they went through with it in the first place.

And god knows this if he can look into their hearts. Hell, I even know most of them say they are sorry and yes they feel sorry and sad for killing their unborn baby, but god damn it if they were in the same situation they'd do it again. But still they cry and ask for forgiveness and sincerely believe they are sorry, but remember, if they could go back in time they'd go through with it the same as they did the first time.

I'm sure they felt guilty walking in too but they did what was right for them at the time. They know you only get one shot at this life and to be honest, who even really knows if heaven and hell are real. I'm not going to fuck up my life over a fairytale is what they probably think. That's why most Christians are the most sorry half hearted christians who were just born into it. They don't really believe, they don't practice, they don't even give it much thought. That's the majority of Christians. Little do they know they aren't doing enough to go to heaven. They think they are and they call themselves Christians but are they really? The church wants them in the pews but are they REALLY saved?

The Protestant term "saved" is meaningless to me. It seems to be a termed coined by Protestants that they equate to a heavenly afterlife. It seems that is what religion is to them--a heavenly afterlife, and that what goes on here isn't that important. Perhaps that is all it is to some Catholics who are not well versed as well. I don't know.

In Catholicism, existence in this life is not about being "saved" for existence in the next. It is about living a redeemed life right now so that we might live life to the fullest. That's the reasoning behind the terms "practicing Catholic" and non-practicing Catholic.

In my opinion, "saved" has nothing to do with anything. The narrow way and redemption of life here on earth is what it is all about and what all should be focused upon.

One of my buddies is a conservative catholic. He feels way too guilty for being as good of a man as I know him to be. Doesn't seem happy in fact it seems the lord is a great stress to him. He's constantly worried he's not living up.

So he certainly isn't living life to the fullest here and now. And if you ask me, this is all he's got and all he's ever going to have.

 

[Mudda]

I've studied and read... I've asked your invisible friend to contact me... but nothing. Ever. Why do you religious folks always think that unbelievers have never read up on the subject. I went to church, sunday school, studied Catechism through my private school into my late teens, still read up on the subjects... and have found nothing concrete to hang on to. Like I said, the stories, especially in the Mormon book, sounds made up and cartoonish, never mind that they go against science, which a thinking person can't get around.

One thing that may cause people to wonder how much reading and studying was done is when this question is posed:

I've always wondered where they got guys named Peter, Paul and John in the Middle East?

If you don't know the answer to that question, how can you expect people to understand you did the amount of studying you remember doing? Second, there is the problem of those who consider religion to be science, not philosophy. Finally, is the expectation that God should come at one's beck and call.

In many respects religion/faith is like a bunch of people given an intricate recipe. Some try it with superb results; others end up with disastrous results. What do you think? Is it the recipe that is at fault, or could the fault lie with the individual cooks?

First of all, your starting with a recipe from a comic book. And some people are satisfied with a pretend cake from an easy bake oven. I'm not.

About Peter... It simply points to being made up, otherwise they'd have names of the period.

People who consider religion to be science would be wrong. Totally wrong. And possibly beyond my help. So not really my problem, but I'm always willing to try to help.

If god is unwilling to do anything to convince the unbelievers, of which there are billions, then either a) it doesn't matter to said god, or b) said god does not exist, otherwise said god would do something about it, and not send us only con men with douche books. Like seriously, if god can't do better than that, then sorry, he's not a bright being.

 

[Mudda]

Your whole Mormon concept is a made up story. Do you really think that if your god really existed that you'd need to discover it in a book? Anyone who discovered anything, discovered it in the real world, not in a book. Think about it.

Again, the books and quotes you dont want to read are encouraging you to find out for yourself in the real world. People learn through study and action.

Except you can't prove anything from the Mormon book. Loki and all his buds, ancients subs, golden plates, ... none f it can be proven, making it a book of fiction. Maybe if you had something provable people would take Mormons seriously.

You can ask God after studying out the principles it teaches.

But you don't want to. You want someone else to.

I've studied and read... I've asked your invisible friend to contact me... but nothing. Ever. Why do you religious folks always think that unbelievers have never read up on the subject. I went to church, sunday school, studied Catechism through my private school into my late teens, still read up on the subjects... and have found nothing concrete to hang on to. Like I said, the stories, especially in the Mormon book, sounds made up and cartoonish, never mind that they go against science, which a thinking person can't get around.

Maybe it's because you claim to have read up and then start talking about John Smith and completely ignoring the fact that your problems are literally being answered by what your responding to.

Talking in circles, you folks seem to like to do that, don't you? Instead of giving me solid proof that your god exists. Go for it, I'm listening...

 

[sealybobo]

God told me that Mormons are a bunch of delusional nuts stuck in a cult. he isn't angry about it. He finds it rather amusing, especially the underwear....

I think you must be making that up; in my extremely, very, very, very limited experience, it doesn't sound like God at all.

That's what we say about your stories!

And I'm sorry if the real god doesn't sound like the god in the bible or book of mormons. After all he's the real god. Not a made up story about him.

 

[Meriweather]

One of my buddies is a conservative catholic. He feels way too guilty for being as good of a man as I know him to be. Doesn't seem happy in fact it seems the lord is a great stress to him. He's constantly worried he's not living up.

So he certainly isn't living life to the fullest here and now. And if you ask me, this is all he's got and all he's ever going to have.

I can take religion out of your post and substitute in any profession. Many people are excellent at what they do, yet strive to be even better and seem stressed/worried that they are not living up--even when they are atheists.
Neither you nor I can judge what people's lives would be like if they dropped their ideals, whatever these ideals might be.

I don't think you can assert, "My friend would have a much better life if he dropped his faith," any more than I can assert, "My friend would have a much better life if she stopped being a teacher." What is safe to say is this life and any profession is a journey. With a bit of tweaking and more experience both might end up saying, "I ran the race, I fought the good fight, and I have my crown." This holds true whether they hold a belief in the afterlife or not.

How do you know he isn't living his life to the fullest? In your opinion, what would make his life even more full?

 

[Meriweather]

[That's what we say about your stories!

And I'm sorry if the real god doesn't sound like the god in the bible or book of mormons. After all he's the real god. Not a made up story about him.

What people can't seem to stop doing is reading the Bible through the lens of twenty-first century modern American culture through the prism of modern English. The Bible was written for a culture that lived here thousands of years ago, and in a non-subjective language.

 

[yiostheoy]

God told me that Mormons are a bunch of delusional nuts stuck in a cult. he isn't angry about it. He finds it rather amusing, especially the underwear....

God did not tell me that.

He/she/they did not mention them at all.

But then he did not mention the Catholic Church either.

When you have a theophany it is normally very specifically directed to you.

Moses on the other hand was given the difficult 41 year task of bringing the Hebrews (a word that means Babylonians from the other side of the river) out of Egypt.

And John The Baptist was given the task of baptizing disgruntled Jews in the Jordan River.

And St. Peter was given the task of leading the Church Of Jesus Christ (ecclesia Iesous Xristos).

And St. Paul was given the task of spreading the Church to the Greeks and Romans.

And Constantine The Great was given the task of defeating a superior Roman army and converting the Roman Empire to Christianity.

Those were each really difficult theophanies.

 

[yiostheoy]

[That's what we say about your stories!

And I'm sorry if the real god doesn't sound like the god in the bible or book of mormons. After all he's the real god. Not a made up story about him.

What people can't seem to stop doing is reading the Bible through the lens of twenty-first century modern American culture through the prism of modern English. The Bible was written for a culture that lived here thousands of years ago, and in a non-subjective language.

Not only that but even the most cursive reading in Hebrew and Greek makes it clear that the modern English translations are perverted by Protestants and Catholics (and Mormons use the KJV which is one of the worst translations of all).

 

[Meriweather]

If god is unwilling to do anything to convince the unbelievers, of which there are billions, then either a) it doesn't matter to said god, or b) said god does not exist, otherwise said god would do something about it, and not send us only con men with douche books. Like seriously, if god can't do better than that, then sorry, he's not a bright being.

A different perspective: God has no intention of convincing anyone. He is. We can seek Him. Or not. Ever notice what happens when someone tries to convince another? They harden their hearts and stick like glue to their own perspective. And nothing can convince them. I have passages from the Bible that can show Noah's flood did not cover the entire planet, but people who are convinced by the English translation that Noah's flood was a planet-wide event will only harden their hearts and their belief in a planet-wide flood. Likewise, those who have chosen atheism will not be convinced even when God reaches out and touches them. Each one of us, in our own way, have hardened our hearts. Only our own search will change anything.

 

[Mudda]

If god is unwilling to do anything to convince the unbelievers, of which there are billions, then either a) it doesn't matter to said god, or b) said god does not exist, otherwise said god would do something about it, and not send us only con men with douche books. Like seriously, if god can't do better than that, then sorry, he's not a bright being.

A different perspective: God has no intention of convincing anyone. He is. We can seek Him. Or not. Ever notice what happens when someone tries to convince another? They harden their hearts and stick like glue to their own perspective. And nothing can convince them. I have passages from the Bible that can show Noah's flood did not cover the entire planet, but people who are convinced by the English translation that Noah's flood was a planet-wide event will only harden their hearts and their belief in a planet-wide flood. Likewise, those who have chosen atheism will not be convinced even when God reaches out and touches them. Each one of us, in our own way, have hardened our hearts. Only our own search will change anything.

None of the big things in the bible can be proven, and like you say, believers can't even agree on its meaning. So it's a book of hearsay, with cartoonish elements thrown in to entertain.

 

[Mudda]

[That's what we say about your stories!

And I'm sorry if the real god doesn't sound like the god in the bible or book of mormons. After all he's the real god. Not a made up story about him.

What people can't seem to stop doing is reading the Bible through the lens of twenty-first century modern American culture through the prism of modern English. The Bible was written for a culture that lived here thousands of years ago, and in a non-subjective language.

So you're saying that the bible was dumbed down for the times?

 

[Meriweather]

None of the big things in the bible can be proven, and like you say, believers can't even agree on its meaning. So it's a book of hearsay, with cartoonish elements thrown in to entertain.

No, not really.