Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[HappyJoy]

Did you move toward digital, dope?

Of course not. You were led there.

I wasn't led there by the government, moron.

Actually, you were. In fact, you were pushed into it. The FCC mandated the conversion to HD and thus digital broadcasts. In order to receive over the air TV you had to buy a converter or buy a new digital TV. Today there are only a few analog stations left in the US and they are special purpose low power stations. Analog TV is now obsolete in the US. Government forced it on the people but in the end it was far better than the old system.

And it all came for free, right?

Any advanced technology has to be paid for by somebody. Usually that somebody is the consumer. And do you really believe without government, the industry wouldn't have eventually went to HD on their own? Industry is always looking to create more things to sell. Right now they are selling televisions with ultra HD. The problem is that there are few stations that broadcast ultra-high, but that will change on it's own timeframe and not the governments.........hopefully.

Netflix and Hulu and Vudu all broadcast some videos in UHD.

Those companies only exist because of the internet.

And we all know Google invented the internet...oh, wait.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It's an investment but not the kind you're think of. It's an investment by the people and the dividends are not just saving on an electric bill. It's knowing you are doing something that will make life better for the community, your kids, and your grand kids. I know for someone like you that seems completely ridiculous but believe or not there are lots of people in this world that care about the environment and in California a lot more that in most places.

Well at least that would be honest. But people coming here saying how much money they are going to save in the next 25 years is ridiculous. First of all we don't know what electric rates will be in the next couple of decades. Secondly, even if you end up saving money, it won't be anything substantial. Third, you still risk losing money if the panels become defective, you need a roof repair, or again, electric rates decrease.

Now if somebody says they bought alternative power sources because of the environment and there are no real benefits other than that, then I can't argue with them. Good for you.

Of course it's about the environment. It's the primary reason to consider solar. Savings are all based on projections. However the likelihood of the cost of electric power in California not going up is pretty slim with the state importing more power every year. The Cost of solar panels have dramatically dropped in price and there's no reason to expect that the drop won't continue as volume continues to rise.

If the majority of the people in California see global warming as a clear danger to the state, then it is certainly reasonable that the state should take action. Government changes in new construction requirements to deal with future potential problems is nothing new. California has revised building codes several times to lessen damage from earthquakes. Years ago, Florida revised codes for new construction to include hurricane construction. Building codes in all states were revised in the 20th century to provide additional electrical capacity and grounding in new construction to deal with the anticipated growth in home appliances.

The difference of course is that hurricanes, earthquakes, appliances are all real things. Global Warming is not real, it's a theory. And it's ridiculous to force people to buy things based on an unproven theory. It's like saying all new homes should have the largest room reserved as a church in case Jesus Christ comes back.

It's just a theory and a belief.

Then why is the temperature in Winnipeg Canada the same as in Las Vegas Nevada?

I don't know. Nobody does. We simply don't understand enough about the planet yet alone think we can control weather or climate.

You simply don't know enough about the planet. The rest of the world gets it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well at least that would be honest. But people coming here saying how much money they are going to save in the next 25 years is ridiculous. First of all we don't know what electric rates will be in the next couple of decades. Secondly, even if you end up saving money, it won't be anything substantial. Third, you still risk losing money if the panels become defective, you need a roof repair, or again, electric rates decrease.

Now if somebody says they bought alternative power sources because of the environment and there are no real benefits other than that, then I can't argue with them. Good for you.

Of course it's about the environment. It's the primary reason to consider solar. Savings are all based on projections. However the likelihood of the cost of electric power in California not going up is pretty slim with the state importing more power every year. The Cost of solar panels have dramatically dropped in price and there's no reason to expect that the drop won't continue as volume continues to rise.

If the majority of the people in California see global warming as a clear danger to the state, then it is certainly reasonable that the state should take action. Government changes in new construction requirements to deal with future potential problems is nothing new. California has revised building codes several times to lessen damage from earthquakes. Years ago, Florida revised codes for new construction to include hurricane construction. Building codes in all states were revised in the 20th century to provide additional electrical capacity and grounding in new construction to deal with the anticipated growth in home appliances.

The difference of course is that hurricanes, earthquakes, appliances are all real things. Global Warming is not real, it's a theory. And it's ridiculous to force people to buy things based on an unproven theory. It's like saying all new homes should have the largest room reserved as a church in case Jesus Christ comes back.

It's just a theory and a belief.

Then why is the temperature in Winnipeg Canada the same as in Las Vegas Nevada?

I don't know. Nobody does. We simply don't understand enough about the planet yet alone think we can control weather or climate.

You simply don't know enough about the planet. The rest of the world gets it.

Of course they do, because everybody agrees with liberals, right?

Your family is liberal, your Starbuck friends are liberal, your coworkers are liberal, therefore, the entire world must be liberal. Everybody in the world believes in the same things you do.

 

[HappyJoy]

Of course it's about the environment. It's the primary reason to consider solar. Savings are all based on projections. However the likelihood of the cost of electric power in California not going up is pretty slim with the state importing more power every year. The Cost of solar panels have dramatically dropped in price and there's no reason to expect that the drop won't continue as volume continues to rise.

If the majority of the people in California see global warming as a clear danger to the state, then it is certainly reasonable that the state should take action. Government changes in new construction requirements to deal with future potential problems is nothing new. California has revised building codes several times to lessen damage from earthquakes. Years ago, Florida revised codes for new construction to include hurricane construction. Building codes in all states were revised in the 20th century to provide additional electrical capacity and grounding in new construction to deal with the anticipated growth in home appliances.

The difference of course is that hurricanes, earthquakes, appliances are all real things. Global Warming is not real, it's a theory. And it's ridiculous to force people to buy things based on an unproven theory. It's like saying all new homes should have the largest room reserved as a church in case Jesus Christ comes back.

It's just a theory and a belief.

Then why is the temperature in Winnipeg Canada the same as in Las Vegas Nevada?

I don't know. Nobody does. We simply don't understand enough about the planet yet alone think we can control weather or climate.

You simply don't know enough about the planet. The rest of the world gets it.

Of course they do, because everybody agrees with liberals, right?

Your family is liberal, your Starbuck friends are liberal, your coworkers are liberal, therefore, the entire world must be liberal. Everybody in the world believes in the same things you do.

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

 

[Pilot1]

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

 

[HappyJoy]

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

Yeah, we're beyond this point here. I think my post was pretty clear as to what most on the globe believe.

 

[Pilot1]

Yeah, we're beyond this point here. I think my post was pretty clear as to what most on the globe believe.

I don't know about other countries, but I think that MMGW is not a big concern for most people in the U.S. It is way down on the list of concerns, and priorities.

 

[HappyJoy]

Yeah, we're beyond this point here. I think my post was pretty clear as to what most on the globe believe.

I don't know about other countries, but I think that MMGW is not a big concern for most people in the U.S. It is way down on the list of concerns, and priorities.

I've always been curious, how much do those goal posts weigh?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Of course it's about the environment. It's the primary reason to consider solar. Savings are all based on projections. However the likelihood of the cost of electric power in California not going up is pretty slim with the state importing more power every year. The Cost of solar panels have dramatically dropped in price and there's no reason to expect that the drop won't continue as volume continues to rise.

If the majority of the people in California see global warming as a clear danger to the state, then it is certainly reasonable that the state should take action. Government changes in new construction requirements to deal with future potential problems is nothing new. California has revised building codes several times to lessen damage from earthquakes. Years ago, Florida revised codes for new construction to include hurricane construction. Building codes in all states were revised in the 20th century to provide additional electrical capacity and grounding in new construction to deal with the anticipated growth in home appliances.

The difference of course is that hurricanes, earthquakes, appliances are all real things. Global Warming is not real, it's a theory. And it's ridiculous to force people to buy things based on an unproven theory. It's like saying all new homes should have the largest room reserved as a church in case Jesus Christ comes back.

It's just a theory and a belief.

Then why is the temperature in Winnipeg Canada the same as in Las Vegas Nevada?

I don't know. Nobody does. We simply don't understand enough about the planet yet alone think we can control weather or climate.

You simply don't know enough about the planet. The rest of the world gets it.

Of course they do, because everybody agrees with liberals, right?

Your family is liberal, your Starbuck friends are liberal, your coworkers are liberal, therefore, the entire world must be liberal. Everybody in the world believes in the same things you do.

The American Republican party is the only political party in the world that denies the reality of climate change.

Your belief is the outlier. Not mine.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

The science of climate change is centered on entirely different processes than those in your, "periods". The growth of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere correlates directly with the widespread use of fossil fuels by humans. There is no other natural process on the planet that accounts for the rise.

 

[Pilot1]

The American Republican party is the only political party in the world that denies the reality of climate change.

Your belief is the outlier. Not mine.

Most of the rest of the world also willingly, or unwillingly gave up their legally owned guns, and embraced Socialism. Most Americans, especially Republicans aren't sheep like much of the world. The reasons we are Americans. We're different, and don't go along with every government power, and money grab.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The American Republican party is the only political party in the world that denies the reality of climate change.

Your belief is the outlier. Not mine.

Most of the rest of the world also willingly, or unwillingly gave up their legally owned guns, and embraced Socialism. Most Americans, especially Republicans aren't sheep like much of the world. The reasons we are Americans. We're different, and don't go along with every government power, and money grab.

A nonsensical response. More like your party tends to attract those who either have a financial stake in fossil fuels or are simply not smart enough to grasp the actual science.

 

[Redfish]

As you know, the Social Security System is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Over the next five years, the Social Security trust fund could encounter deficits of up to $111 billion, and in the decades ahead its unfunded obligations could run well into the trillions.

That was Reagan, 35+ years ago.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that it's a wealth re-distribution program that's run inefficiently and is the one of the main drivers of our national debt.

NOPE, that's false.

SS is operationally VERY efficient with overhead at just 0.7% compared to about 8-10% if you look at any private insurance system.

SS trust fund balance is positive, which means public has paid more into the system than was paid out of it. And the reason why if nothing is done it will turn negative has nothing to do with inefficiency it has to do with there being more retired people that need to be covered.

that would be true if the dems in congress had not merged SS funds with the general fund under LBJ. Now, those working pay for those who are retired. There is no "fund" that was made up from our SS (FICA) deductions.

As far as budget effects it doesn't matter who merged with what. What matters is how much was paid into the program and how much was paid out.

you just don't get it. SS was set up as a forced retirement fund for American workers. What we paid in was supposed to be put away for our retirement years. Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired. The democrats under LBJ changed it and merged the SS fund with the general fund and then spent it. The classic Ponzi scheme.

 

[Redfish]

The American Republican party is the only political party in the world that denies the reality of climate change.

Your belief is the outlier. Not mine.

Most of the rest of the world also willingly, or unwillingly gave up their legally owned guns, and embraced Socialism. Most Americans, especially Republicans aren't sheep like much of the world. The reasons we are Americans. We're different, and don't go along with every government power, and money grab.

A nonsensical response. More like your party tends to attract those who either have a financial stake in fossil fuels or are simply not smart enough to grasp the actual science.

OK, tell us exactly what you want humanity to do to stop global climate change. Give us the specific things that all of us must do.

Is it to stop pollution? If that's it, everyone is already on board. You don't need a fake link between pollution and climate to make a case to stop pollution.

As to actual science, there is absolutely zero proof that the acts of humans are changing the climate of planet earth. Polluting it, Yes. Changing the climate, NO. Our climate is controlled by the activity of the sun (you know, that big ball of fire that you see in the sky).

 

[Redfish]

As you know, the Social Security System is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Over the next five years, the Social Security trust fund could encounter deficits of up to $111 billion, and in the decades ahead its unfunded obligations could run well into the trillions.

That was Reagan, 35+ years ago.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that it's a wealth re-distribution program that's run inefficiently and is the one of the main drivers of our national debt.

NOPE, that's false.

SS is operationally VERY efficient with overhead at just 0.7% compared to about 8-10% if you look at any private insurance system.

SS trust fund balance is positive, which means public has paid more into the system than was paid out of it. And the reason why if nothing is done it will turn negative has nothing to do with inefficiency it has to do with there being more retired people that need to be covered.

that would be true if the dems in congress had not merged SS funds with the general fund under LBJ. Now, those working pay for those who are retired. There is no "fund" that was made up from our SS (FICA) deductions.

Now, those working pay for those who are retired.

It was always designed that way.
It wasn't designed to support people for 20+ years in retirement.

actually it was designed that way. the problem is that modern medicine is keeping people alive longer and the actuaries who created the SS fund did not properly foresee that. But that's only part of the problem, when LBJ did away with the SS fund the only way to keep the contract with retired people was to take more from working people. that will continue.

 

[Redfish]

For the record, I have no issue with solar power, wind power, geothermal, hydro, and any other alternative that mankind can come up with. What I take issue with is the government forcing us to buy into technology that does not work and costs more than is saves.

When alternatives are financially viable and reliable, the private market with jump on them with both feet, because its the profit motive that spurs innovation, not government mandates.

 

[Flopper]

The last link from 2013 was was before the the discovery that the oceans have warmed so much they make up for much of somewhat lower air temperature Rises.

That was in invention, not a "discovery." There's no actual evidence to support the claim.

Not on Fox Rush Etc LOL. Just Google evidence oceans are warming...
First evidence of surprising ocean warming around Galápagos corals ...
Science Daily › releases › 2018/02
Feb 21, 2018 · A new analysis of the natural temperature archives stored in coral reefs shows the ocean around the Galápagos ...
New Evidence on Warming Ocean | NOAA Climate.gov
NOAA Climate.gov › featured-images
Jul 28, 2010 · Recent studies show the world's ocean is heating up as it absorbs most of the extra heat being added to the climate ...
Our Globally Changing Climate - Climate Science Special Report
GlobalChange.gov › science2017 › chapter
Evidence for a changing climate abounds, from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the oceans. Thousands of studies conducted ...

Then why aren't there more hurricanes as the GW people predicted years ago?

Where do you goofs get this belief that the earth is constant? The water stays the same temperature, the air stays at the same temperature, the ground stays at the same temperature? And if anything drifts away from what you consider normal, it must be global warming.

The earth (and climate) have been changing since God made the place. Nothing is constant. It was changing 10,000 years ago and it will continue to change 10,000 years from now. There is nothing you can do to control it.

That's your opinion which is not shared by 70% of all Americans, 90% of all scientist, 97% of all climatologist.

Every time this discussion comes up, I drift away to a classroom about 100 years or so from today. The teacher tells her students that back in the early 2000's, people thought they could control the climate. The kids burst out in laughter the way we did when our teacher told us that people years ago thought the earth was flat, and if you walk too far, you'll fall off.

It seems pretty unlikely that children in a hundred years would be laughing at our failure to control global warming. I think the question that kids are going to be asking is why we did so little when we knew so much.

 

[Pilot1]

It seems pretty unlikely that children in a hundred years would be laughing at our failure to control global warming. I think the question that kids are going to be asking is why we did so little when we knew so much.

They'll thank us for not bankrupting them, raising more, and more taxes, driving up costs for everything, and slowing down the increasing control, and growth of government, statism, and globalism.

 

[jillian]

The last link from 2013 was was before the the discovery that the oceans have warmed so much they make up for much of somewhat lower air temperature Rises.

That was in invention, not a "discovery." There's no actual evidence to support the claim.

Not on Fox Rush Etc LOL. Just Google evidence oceans are warming...
First evidence of surprising ocean warming around Galápagos corals ...
Science Daily › releases › 2018/02
Feb 21, 2018 · A new analysis of the natural temperature archives stored in coral reefs shows the ocean around the Galápagos ...
New Evidence on Warming Ocean | NOAA Climate.gov
NOAA Climate.gov › featured-images
Jul 28, 2010 · Recent studies show the world's ocean is heating up as it absorbs most of the extra heat being added to the climate ...
Our Globally Changing Climate - Climate Science Special Report
GlobalChange.gov › science2017 › chapter
Evidence for a changing climate abounds, from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the oceans. Thousands of studies conducted ...

Then why aren't there more hurricanes as the GW people predicted years ago?

Where do you goofs get this belief that the earth is constant? The water stays the same temperature, the air stays at the same temperature, the ground stays at the same temperature? And if anything drifts away from what you consider normal, it must be global warming.

The earth (and climate) have been changing since God made the place. Nothing is constant. It was changing 10,000 years ago and it will continue to change 10,000 years from now. There is nothing you can do to control it.

I will go with 98% of climatologists over dupe common sense everyday. So there has always been 9 billion GD people spewing gas forever? Please

Sure you will, because you've been DUPED into believing that 98% of scientists are behind GW which I clearly debunked with my link.

You have never debunked anything. And I have learned that when you science denying nutters cite to an “expert”, they never have expertise in climate science.

 

[bripat9643]

That was in invention, not a "discovery." There's no actual evidence to support the claim.

Not on Fox Rush Etc LOL. Just Google evidence oceans are warming...
First evidence of surprising ocean warming around Galápagos corals ...
Science Daily › releases › 2018/02
Feb 21, 2018 · A new analysis of the natural temperature archives stored in coral reefs shows the ocean around the Galápagos ...
New Evidence on Warming Ocean | NOAA Climate.gov
NOAA Climate.gov › featured-images
Jul 28, 2010 · Recent studies show the world's ocean is heating up as it absorbs most of the extra heat being added to the climate ...
Our Globally Changing Climate - Climate Science Special Report
GlobalChange.gov › science2017 › chapter
Evidence for a changing climate abounds, from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the oceans. Thousands of studies conducted ...

Then why aren't there more hurricanes as the GW people predicted years ago?

Where do you goofs get this belief that the earth is constant? The water stays the same temperature, the air stays at the same temperature, the ground stays at the same temperature? And if anything drifts away from what you consider normal, it must be global warming.

The earth (and climate) have been changing since God made the place. Nothing is constant. It was changing 10,000 years ago and it will continue to change 10,000 years from now. There is nothing you can do to control it.

That's your opinion which is not shared by 70% of all Americans, 90% of all scientist, 97% of all climatologist.

Every time this discussion comes up, I drift away to a classroom about 100 years or so from today. The teacher tells her students that back in the early 2000's, people thought they could control the climate. The kids burst out in laughter the way we did when our teacher told us that people years ago thought the earth was flat, and if you walk too far, you'll fall off.

It seems pretty unlikely that children in a hundred years would be laughing at our failure to control global warming. I think the question that kids are going to be asking is why we did so little when we knew so much.

They will laugh for the same reason we laugh at Geologists who thought the continents didn't move or that light propagated through the ether. That's because they are wrong boneheaded theories.