Company Dumps Healthcare Plan

[LoneLaugher]

Crazy talk.

 

[AceRothstein]

After seeing how well our government handled the VA...

You sure it is such a great idea?

Sure? of course not. But evidence suggests that it can and does work in other countries. But we have seen that a private based system doesn't work for everyone.

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Wow, you are capable of making a post without the words "far left' in it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

Thousands per month?
Really Jilly?
Get your facts straight or shut your pie hole.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This was the far left plan in the long run, to make health insurance unaffordable except through the government run exchanges.

is that another intentional lie or are you really that brainwashed and stupid?

if you're capable, read and learn.

thanks.

Original document where Heritage created Obamacare individual mandate

Right. americanblog.....Like that blog site is going to utter the facts.
Sheesh..
Get this straight
No conservative input was permitted in the cobbling together of this piece of shit law

 

[thereisnospoon]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Yep. The law of unintended consequences coupled with top bottom govt.

it wasn't unintended. They know it will bust the system, so in 10 years or so they can roll out what they really want, single payer.

The DMV model of health care.

Most of us conservatives are in agreement here.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Therein ^^^ is this truth: Companies and corporations are amoral - some CEOs, CFOs, etc. are immoral; and the Government has a duty to be ethical. We can fire elected government officials, but not those in the private sector who are immoral. Strange, isn't it.

That argument does not wash. It's old and worn out. The narrative is dead. Move on.

 

[thereisnospoon]

All the more reason why healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment.

If this is a step towards single payer/universal healthcare then I applaud it. Anything that gets us closer to a healthcare system like every other industrialized nation is utilizing is a good thing.

Right. Government does everything correctly 100% of the time.
Genius...Be careful what you wish for.
You want government health insurance( it's not health care)....YOU pay for it.
Do not be so presumptuous as to demand we be suckered into your socialist schemes.
Tell ya what.....Offer an opt out for anyone who wants to go either with private insurance in an open marketplace with no state line restrictions or they can be a cash patient, and you can have your precious free shit high tax health insurance....It's not healthcare...Health care comes from a medical professional. Health insurance is the debate.

 

[Plasmaball]

so his plan to save money is to push this onto the tax payer......i assume he doesnt like obama and most government agencies in general.

He does realize that the more people who sign on to ACA the more it works right?

yeah naturally your friends would be as stupid as you

 

[saveliberty]

What I see happening is health insurance that doesn't work for those covered. In order to be "affordable" the deductables are so high as to have one of two results. First is a reluctance to use it because of high deductables. Basically meaning only the poor can afford good coverage, because they don't pay anything. Result two is an even higher cost to health care as folks pay high premiums and the high deductables to have care.

 

[thereisnospoon]

All the more reason why healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment.

If this is a step towards single payer/universal healthcare then I applaud it. Anything that gets us closer to a healthcare system like every other industrialized nation is utilizing is a good thing.

After seeing how well our government handled the VA...

You sure it is such a great idea?

These people( libs and obamabots) look across the Pond and north of the border and see people walking into a doctors office and back out not one penny lighter in the bank account. They ignore the over all cost of socialized medicine in taxation and the fact that healthy people are saddled with a disproportionate burden of the cost.
To libs, this is ( he says with that whiny sniveling voice) "fairness"...

 

[thereisnospoon]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

A small company that pays 4m into health insurance per year? I don't believe you. What's the company?

500 employees with an average cost of about $600 to $650 per month or $8k per year per employee...Yep.....That's $4 million.....
My wife pays half of her insurance premium.....Now a family plan is more obviously. Her monthly nut is almost $500...And she works for a large banking company.

 

[gallantwarrior]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

If idiots like you hadnt supported Obamacare the company would never have had this incentive to dump employees. Who do you think is going to cover the difference between the350 the company gives and the premium cost? Yeah, you. You voted for it, you get to pay for it. Pretty simple.

But...wait...wasn't obumercare only supposed to cost each family $2500/yearly?

 

[thereisnospoon]

That will work until his best employees leave to join a company that doesn't cut their pay.

That would be impossible because of ACA insuring employees will become cost prohibitive.
Why are you so in love with the idea of free shit?

 

[thereisnospoon]

is that another intentional lie or are you really that brainwashed and stupid?

if you're capable, read and learn.

thanks.

Original document where Heritage created Obamacare individual mandate

Oh the irony of those comments form the far left.

Again the far left uses a far left blog site for the "facts"..

Go figure.

Are you saying the fact that Heritage came up with the mandate isn't true just because the source came from a left wing blog?

How about the original document from Stuart Butler? Will that help clear the cobwebs out of your empty skull?

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

Because they didn't.
Consider the sources you and that empty headed intellectual vacuous jilly came up with....
If this was in any way factual, the main stream media would be reporting this on a daily basis.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So his current cost is 667 a month per employee and he's going to give them 350 a month cash instead?

lol, well of course he comes out ahead...

uh....and 1 million in fines.

Or did you miss that because you were so hell bent on criticizing someone for making some money?

That's another 167 per month. 350+167 equals $517.

Okay, so he's saving 150/month per employee by cutting their healthcare benefit.

The federal government ( taxpayers) pick up the difference.
And that is precisely the purpose of Obamacare. To create dependency on government.

 

[The Rabbi]

NO IT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE!

in addition to this the employee can not get individual health care insurance for $350 a month.... you are giving him a paycut....

PLUS you have to pay employer share of Social security and Medicare taxes on the $350 a month and the employee will end up with about $250 or less...once he pays SS and medicare taxes and federal income taxes and state income taxes etc...where as employer purchased health insurance, is tax deductible for the employer, the employer pays no Added SS and medicare taxes for it and employees actually gets a benefit, instead of employer just handing over $2000 a head to the gvt for nothing in return, and no tax deduction for this expense....

sounds like a real dumb decision for your friend

I'll give you his email address and you can explain why you have superior knowledge and experience.
You do have experience managing health care policies and benefits for a small company, right?

I have never managed a corporation's health care policies, though I have had the benefit of them, but I do know numbers, and the numbers quoted, don't make sense, and not all consequences of acting in that manner have been thought through...

let alone the fact that he will lose good talent...to the competition, will not get a business expense write off for the $1 million dollar penalty just handed over to the gvt with no benefit to the employer's beloved employees, will not provide enough money for his employees to buy health insurance, will have to pay the extra social security taxes and medicare taxes for the employer on the $350.00 a month, and the employee will also be taxed on this money....it's a lose- lose, all the way around for the employees and the employer...the gvt on the other hand, makes out nicely....

OK so you basically have no clue what you're talking about.
The numbers make perfect sense. Pay $1M/yr to save 4.5M/yr. Who would argue with that? ANd out of the 3.5M savings he can pick and choose which employees to lavish the money on, so he's not going to lose anyone.
This is what I love about this board: People with no knowledge or experience but who feel nontheless empowered to tell others what to do.

 

[gallantwarrior]

That will work until his best employees leave to join a company that doesn't cut their pay.

What's hilarious is that government has now decided to tax healthcare payments made by employers on behalf of employees as "income".

 

[The Rabbi]

so his plan to save money is to push this onto the tax payer......i assume he doesnt like obama and most government agencies in general.

He does realize that the more people who sign on to ACA the more it works right?

yeah naturally your friends would be as stupid as you

Yes, the taxpayer will be footing the bill.
What you dont realize is that the more people who need subsidies to pay their premiums the more strain it puts on the system. Or didnt you figure out that "subsidy" means the taxpayer pays for someone else's shit?

You appear to be the stupid one here.

 

[thereisnospoon]

ACA is basically the Nixon, Dole, Heritage plan. Just shows how mindlessly obstructionist the new bs GOP is, and what a joke our corporate media is...

Is that the new "oops we fucked up and people have awoken to that fact" narrative.

 

[thereisnospoon]

All the more reason why healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment.

If this is a step towards single payer/universal healthcare then I applaud it. Anything that gets us closer to a healthcare system like every other industrialized nation is utilizing is a good thing.

After seeing how well our government handled the VA...

You sure it is such a great idea?

Sure? of course not. But evidence suggests that it can and does work in other countries. But we have seen that a private based system doesn't work for everyone.

No precisely the opposite. 4 countries in the EU were essentially bankrupted by socialized medicine and other entitlements.
The EU is forever indebted to Germany because but for that nation's prosperity( read they make stuff and have a robust economy) the EU would have collapsed under the weight of government giveaways with no possible resources to pay for them.