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It's true, the colonist brought the European institution with them when they conquered the new world. However, few civilizations subjugated an entire race to slavery in perpetuity like the Southern states did. It only got worse when the slave trade was ended. They started breeding and selling off the slave's children.Did you miss where I pointed out that virtually every people group on the planet has slavery in its past or present? It wasn't until just a few hundred years ago that people started to view slavery as something abnormal, like we do today. And I'd like to see where you think I don't condemn such when pointing out historical reality.
He has to placate the environmentalist. You should know lease sales on federal land and water are required by law, so there will be no indefinite pause on those leases without Congress passing a new law. There no reason why we can't be oil independent in a few years. Global production and usage is still climbing.Forbes reports
This week President Biden followed that action up with Executive Order on Tackling the Climate Crisis at Home and Abroad. The biggest takeaway from this order was an indefinite “pause on new oil and natural gas leases on public lands” until a comprehensive review on the climate change impacts can be completed.
Others protest that the topic is not oil. There is a hold presently on removing the memorial at Arlington Cemetery.
You still havent told me how someone removes history. Is all of history contained in this monument? How about you stop speaking in ridiculous hyperbole? The knowledge of their deplorable culture will remain.Then why the removal of history?
You have your freedom of speech to advocate for honoring and idolizing whoever you want. I don't have to let you win political battles, that's your job. Just like a Confederate lover you expect a minority to do everything for you.You're not making room for anything, you're just trying to eliminate what you don't like.
They committed cultural genocide when they forced African slaves to conform to Christian European culture but I wasn't claiming the American slavers did exactly what the nazis did, I'm saying enslaving and raping and robbing generations of black men, women and children is just as bad, if not worse than what the nazis did. The nazis campaign to exterminate the Jews lasted six years. Slavery lasted hundreds.Hmmm, when did Confederates attempt to carry out genocide? We'll wait for your answer.
And? Providing that caveat doesn't mean I'm going to agree to respect your favorite slaver. I don't.Did you miss where I pointed out that virtually every people group on the planet has slavery in its past or present?
You excuse it when you suggest slavers should be respected because they fought in a war and were pardon by some other assholes. Either you think they deserve honor and respect or you don't. Which is it you two talking coward?It wasn't until just a few hundred years ago that people started to view slavery as something abnormal, like we do today. And I'd like to see where you think I don't condemn such when pointing out historical reality.
We didn't do shit. Some other assholes pardoned Confederates, what the fuck does that have to do with me?We haven't pardoned blind German soldiers, which would shield them from prosecution. We DID, however, fully pardon all Confederate soldiers.
You think it should be a crime for me to give my opinion about slavers and our countries use of tax payer dollars representing them? Look who doesn't want to allow space for other points of view now.Thus, even if they were alive today, you would be committing a crime attempting to persecute or prosecute them, no matter how mad you are at them.
You're not. Love slavers or nazis all you like. I never suggested you couldn't.How is that belief working out for you? For just one example, how am I required to defer to your beliefs?
I don't think suggesting destroying a statue is destroying history to be mature debate. My arguments may be full of profanity and disrespect for you and your intellect but they're at least serious arguments.And there's the inevitable loser's gambit, thinking a pathetic insult aimed at me will substitute for mature debate. Hint, it doesn't. You're now operating with a strike against you.
I'm explaining to you how I see slavers. To me they are no better than nazis.And the fixation with genocidal WWII blind Germans continues.
Reconciliation is history. It literally doesn't matter what you think of it today, the Confederates were welcomed back into full citizenship after the war.Sure, because its not history. Its literally secessionist propaganda in a US military cemetery.
Didn’t slavery benefit millions and millions of people? Isn’t that evidenced by the fact that free black people NEVER went home to Africa?Do they have a founding document that says "All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Let's continue to be better than to strive to enslave an entire race in perpetuity.
So stipulated. I can't. Don't. And won't.But you cannot ignore that the Confederates were pardoned and accorded all the privileges and rights of military veterans.
Slavery had been outlawed in much of the industrialized world that existed at that time. Britain outlawed the slave trade in their empire in 1807, and the practice of slavery anywhere in their ginormous empire itself in 1833.no matter how wrong they (and pretty much the entire rest of the world at the time)
Okay, then, where is reconciliation in your prescribed treatment of Confederate soldiers?
Why do you make that argument like a bitch with a question mark at the end? Argue it proudly, fail white.Didn’t slavery benefit millions and millions of people? Isn’t that evidenced by the fact that free black people NEVER went home to Africa?
Looking at black Africa today…isn’t slavery the best thing that ever happened to modern day black Americans?
We should all take oil to this thread and save this for the monuments.bob, oil is a legacy fuel that has caused our planet to warm.
www.usmessageboard.com
The reunion was being held in the spirit of Reconciliation, a continued attempt to bring unity to the country. Reconstruction had lasted until 1877, with strong Federal control over the former rebellious states. After a compromise between the Republicans and Democrats to elect Rutherford B. Hayes, Reconstruction ended. The Federal troops were withdrawn and life began again as “normal” in the southern states.Reconciliation is history. It literally doesn't matter what you think of it today, the Confederates were welcomed back into full citizenship after the war.
angrystaffofficer.com
Now you're just being hyperbolic. A monument to reconciliation deserves to stand.You still havent told me how someone removes history. Is all of history contained in this monument? How about you stop speaking in ridiculous hyperbole? The knowledge of their deplorable culture will remain.
You just don't like the fact that the Confederates were welcomed back into the union instead of slaughtered like the blind Germans wanted to do with their scapegoats.You have your freedom of speech to advocate for honoring and idolizing whoever you want. I don't have to let you win political battles, that's your job. Just like a Confederate lover you expect a minority to do everything for you.
You keep claiming they were blind Germans. They were not, for just one simple example, they had no intention of taking over the entire world and forcing everyone into their sphere of power. Nor did they attempt genocide.They committed cultural genocide when they forced African slaves to conform to Christian European culture but I wasn't claiming the American slavers did exactly what the nazis did,
Yes, it was bad. I know of no one that says it was not a bad thing.I'm saying enslaving and raping and robbing generations of black men, women and children is just as bad, if not worse than what the nazis did.
Incorrect, slavery has lasted the entire time man has had the ability to form tribes. It wasn't invented in the 1600's.The nazis campaign to exterminate the Jews lasted six years. Slavery lasted hundreds.
I know you don't and didn't say you had to.And? Providing that caveat doesn't mean I'm going to agree to respect your favorite slaver. I don't.
I say they should be respected as full citizens of the United States, which is what they were when they were pardoned. Are you sure you're actually reading this stuff?You excuse it when you suggest slavers should be respected because they fought in a war and were pardon by some other assholes. Either you think they deserve honor and respect or you don't. Which is it you two talking coward?
It means you're talking about pardoned citizens of the United States, no longer considered traitors.We didn't do shit. Some other assholes pardoned Confederates, what the fuck does that have to do with me?
It would be a crime for you to harass or violently assault a Confederate veteran on the basis of him being a Confederate, because he would be pardoned citizen of the United States, on equal footing with yourself.You think it should be a crime for me to give my opinion about slavers and our countries use of tax payer dollars representing them? Look who doesn't want to allow space for other points of view now.
And now you're just projecting. I never said I loved either slavers or blind Germans.You're not. Love slavers or nazis all you like. I never suggested you couldn't.
And virtually every people group has slavers in their past or present. Keep that in mind.I don't think suggesting destroying a statue is destroying history to be mature debate. My arguments may be full of profanity and disrespect for you and your intellect but they're at least serious arguments.
I'm explaining to you how I see slavers. To me they are no better than nazis.
Why didn't you create a thread about slavery? This one is about monuments to those who died in combat.Why do you make that argument like a bitch with a question mark at the end? Argue it proudly, fail white.
Wouldn’t our great founders have issued medals of honor to Confederates?
Didn’t they want The People to take up arms against a tyrannical government?
But it was a noble attempt to re-unite the Union instead of turning the Southern states into vassals and permanently occupied territory.The reunion was being held in the spirit of Reconciliation, a continued attempt to bring unity to the country. Reconstruction had lasted until 1877, with strong Federal control over the former rebellious states. After a compromise between the Republicans and Democrats to elect Rutherford B. Hayes, Reconstruction ended. The Federal troops were withdrawn and life began again as “normal” in the southern states.
But what did Reconciliation actually mean?
To Union veterans, it meant that the South had reconciled itself to Union victory and that the former rebellious hotheads now bent their knee in subservience to the idea of Union.
But to former Confederates, Reconciliation meant something more. It meant that not only were they not facing charges for treason or insurrection, but that Reconstruction was being rolled back. It meant that the North was turning a blind eye to Jim Crow laws and the racial persecution of African Americans in the South. It meant that they would control their local and state governments, free of the occupying Federal soldiers. And it meant that they would be able to control the narrative that they would come to term “the late unpleasantness” or “the war of Northern aggression.”
Deconstructing the Reconciliation Narrative of the Civil War
In 1913, Union and Confederate veterans held a touching reunion at Gettysburg. Now in their 70s, the veterans flocked to the small Pennsylvania town by the thousands. It was here that they shared s…
Why don't we read accounts of George Washington being a rebel? Why isn't our books loaded with remarks he was a rebel who but for France would have been hung?The reunion was being held in the spirit of Reconciliation, a continued attempt to bring unity to the country. Reconstruction had lasted until 1877, with strong Federal control over the former rebellious states. After a compromise between the Republicans and Democrats to elect Rutherford B. Hayes, Reconstruction ended. The Federal troops were withdrawn and life began again as “normal” in the southern states.
But what did Reconciliation actually mean?
To Union veterans, it meant that the South had reconciled itself to Union victory and that the former rebellious hotheads now bent their knee in subservience to the idea of Union.
But to former Confederates, Reconciliation meant something more. It meant that not only were they not facing charges for treason or insurrection, but that Reconstruction was being rolled back. It meant that the North was turning a blind eye to Jim Crow laws and the racial persecution of African Americans in the South. It meant that they would control their local and state governments, free of the occupying Federal soldiers. And it meant that they would be able to control the narrative that they would come to term “the late unpleasantness” or “the war of Northern aggression.”
Deconstructing the Reconciliation Narrative of the Civil War
In 1913, Union and Confederate veterans held a touching reunion at Gettysburg. Now in their 70s, the veterans flocked to the small Pennsylvania town by the thousands. It was here that they shared s…
What does that have to do with monuments?I don't see how one could argue that the confederates were all about a being against a tyrannical government when that tyranny was totally alright while the South held the balance of power. We certainly don't read anything about Johnny Rebs crying state rights over federal fugitive slave laws that necessitated slaves' escape to freedom extending all the way to Canada and not just north of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Exactly. They were welcomed back into the Union and were not systematically hunted down for execution, as they would be today. They're buried in Arlington, for example. It would seem that some on here would like to see their graves dug up and their bones scattered.So stipulated. I can't. Don't. And won't.
But that pardon of their insurrection and traitorous actions does not....must not ....earn them honored monuments on our public spaces. They were traitors to America and wanted to see the United States as we knew it....destroyed.
If there are those fringie slices of America who still live in the nostalgia of the "The Lost Cause"...well, they can do it on their own private land. After all, this is America and we allow that 'big tent' vibe to exist via our manifest freedoms.
Slavery had been outlawed in much of the industrialized world that existed at that time. Britain outlawed the slave trade in their empire in 1807, and the practice of slavery anywhere in their ginormous empire itself in 1833.
The American traitorous Confederacy fought to ensure its' existence continue even 30yrs after that.
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"Reconciliation"?
What are you talking about?
The war ended about 160 years ago. And I ain't that old.
The 'reconciliation' you seemingly ignore came via the magnanimity of Abraham Lincoln and US Grant. They didn't imprison the regular soldiers, strip them of their horses or personal weapons. They didn't hang Lee, Davis, and other leaders. Unusual steps in the world at that time ---even today---for the treatment of traitors who killed thousands of a country's citizens in an attempt to overthrow the government.
The stupid coxuckers are trying to make a case for "reparations".Why do you believe slavery still exists as it did 160 years ago? What happens to the statues of 13 former presidents all of whom happily owned slaves? Why do you now associate yourself with slaves? Can you explain your association as a slave?
What does that have to do with monuments?
Today with exceptions slavery is the enterprise of blacks enslaving blacks.Because its profitable?
Taken down eventually would be my vote.
I don't associate myself with a slave. I associate slavers with slavery. Try to keep up Short Bus.
