Confederate Memorial at Arlington will be removed despite GOP opposition

[Robert W]

The stupid coxuckers are trying to make a case for "reparations".
Its not about slavery, its about getting handouts.

I realize that. Maybe we should focus them on the topic, which is monuments being removed.

 

[kyzr]

Keystone XL pipe line, even if operational, doesn't produce a drop of US oil.

ANWR can't be killed. No major oil company bid on any of the leases Trump tries to sell at the end of his term.

In the Gulf of Mexico. "Fossil fuel energy companies looking to extract oil and natural gas from U.S. waters in the Gulf of Mexico got a boost on Wednesday, as they secured access to 1.6 million acres of waters offered at auction.

That was just a fraction of some 73.3 million acres of federal waters the Interior Department's Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM) opened up for bidding."

1. 300,000 bpd of Canadian oil. It goes to market and lowers prices. You like paying more? I don't.

2. Biden killed ANWR. When Trump comes in watch how fast it opens up.

Biden ends drilling in ANWR, sparking criticism, as Willow Project moves forward

The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is home to dozens of species — and to an ongoing political fight over oil and gas. Now, the Biden administration is hoping ending oil and gas leases will be a win.

www.wunc.org

 

[Robert W]

Why don't you ask that of the person who posed the questions to me?

Don't feel bad since I did post that there is threads about slavery and about oil, and posted a thread showing this fact.

 

[BlindBoo]

Why don't we read accounts of George Washington being a rebel? Why isn't our books loaded with remarks he was a rebel who but for France would have been hung?

Because Washington was smarter than Lee and knew that the Brits would eventually become tired of fighting and dying. All he had to do was keep his army intact and forge an alliance with one of the UK enemies. Lee believed in a stand up fight, and the righteous side would be victorious. Washington knew he was fighting a war of attrition with the UK having more resources. He picked his battles better or he would have been hung for treason. At least that's what I learned in History. But I'm old.

 

[Chillicothe]

Lead the way.

You should aspire to be more than a mere follower.
Try harder.
IMHO

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I suspect that Democrats plan to sneak in at night and burn down those magnificent buildings and outlying structures. They are just that evil.

QAnon conspiracy jackassery still exists on the USMB chatroom.

What happens to the statues of 13 former presidents all of whom happily owned slaves?

I'll take your "13 former presidents" on face value.
But if true, which of them? how many of them?.......took up arms against the United States of America and directed others of like mind to go kill soldiers of the United States of America?

And that .......is the distinction that makes the difference.

----------------------------------------------------

The Federal troops were withdrawn and life began again as “normal” in the southern states.

Enter Jim Crow onto the stage.

It means you're talking about pardoned citizens of the United States, no longer considered traitors.

Citizens, yes. So stipulated.

But, in reality ....'Pardoned Criminals', who had their former citizenship offered to them if they put down their weapons and no longer attempted to destroy the United States..

 

[Curried Goats]

Now you're just being hyperbolic. A monument to reconciliation deserves to stand.

I'm not at all being hyperbolic. You did suggest that destroying a monument was an attempt to destroy history. I'm still waiting for to tell me what that even means but I don't imagine I'll ever get an answer from as big of a bitch as you.

This is a different argument, one not about the ridiculous destruction of history but rather about your opinion. In this case I we're going to have to agree to disagree. I didn't agree to reconcile with Confederates and I don't think it deserves to stand.

You just don't like the fact that the Confederates were welcomed back into the union instead of slaughtered like the blind Germans wanted to do with their scapegoats.

I agree. I don't like that historical fact. I'm not trying to change it however. How could I? I left my time machine at my other message board. You love the fact that those deplorable Northerns forgave the deplorable southerners. Ok. So what? I'm advocating for what we do now, not for changing the past which is impossible until someone invents said time machine.

You keep claiming they were blind Germans. They were not, for just one simple example, they had no intention of taking over the entire world and forcing everyone into their sphere of power. Nor did they attempt genocide.

I don't know what a blind German is in reference to. I'm suggesting Confederates were as deplorable as the nazis, not that they tried to take over the world. Also how many black Americans still speak the language and practice the faith of their ancestors who were brought over here? If you don't recognize cultural genocide I'm not sure I can help you. You're simply ignorant.

Yes, it was bad. I know of no one that says it was not a bad thing.

Yet you want to respected and honor these people.

Incorrect, slavery has lasted the entire time man has had the ability to form tribes. It wasn't invented in the 1600's.

I didn't say it wasn't invented here you clown I'm talking about how long American slavers practiced it. American chattel slavery lasted a hundred years.

I know you don't and didn't say you had to.

I say they should be respected as full citizens of the United States, which is what they were when they were pardoned. Are you sure you're actually reading this stuff?

Jeffery Dahmer was a citizen, should he get a monument?

It means you're talking about pardoned citizens of the United States, no longer considered traitors.

They were no longer considered traitors to other people. I can think for myself you Simp. Why can't you?

It would be a crime for you to harass or violently assault a Confederate veteran on the basis of him being a Confederate, because he would be pardoned citizen of the United States, on equal footing with yourself.

I haven't suggested violence, only shame, disrespect and ridicule.

And now you're just projecting. I never said I loved either slavers or blind Germans.

But you think we should respect them. I don't.

And virtually every people group has slavers in their past or present. Keep that in mind.

I'm not suggesting we venerate slavers from other groups.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Reconciliation is history. It literally doesn't matter what you think of it today, the Confederates were welcomed back into full citizenship after the war.

The statue is not about reconciliation. Its a treasonous statue in place where dead US troops are buried, and a constant reminder to Lee how terrible he was.

 

[Chillicothe]

It would seem that some on here would like to see their graves dug up and their bones scattered.

QAnon conspiracy jackassery continues to thrive on USMB chatrooms.

 

[Curried Goats]

Why didn't you create a thread about slavery? This one is about monuments to those who died in combat.

Who were slavers. Who are you such a bitch?

Today with exceptions slavery is the enterprise of blacks enslaving blacks.

Wrong dipshit. There are more slaves in Asia than Africa.

Democrats have to bust their balls to wipe out our history as to the remark about taking down 13 presidents statues.

How does one wipe out history exactly? White out?

This thread is actually not about slavery, it is about removing monuments. So why not try to keep up.

If you had better arguments maybe you could keep these statues and monuments from falling.

 

[kyzr]

It hasn't. Apparently you don't understand the difference between campaign rhetoric and reality. Part of the reason Biden's poll numbers are so low is because he's acted against his campaign promises to progressives who pay attention to politics in order to continue the moderate policy of business as usual. You're just too stupid to realize business as usual is also Republican policy, except with an added bonus of cruelty and ignorance.

They are approving more requests for permits than the Trump administration. They aren't forcing companies to drill where they don't want. They just aren't letting them drill anywhere because our coasts and oceans and it's wildlife are particularly susceptible to environmental accidents.

No one is forcing them to make EVs. You spent the first part of your post griping about fuel costs and now you seem ignorant why capitalists might want to take advantage of consumers looking to lower those costs. Do you know how capitalism even works?

Nope. That would be market manipulation by capitalists as the investor class continues to operate unchecked. Let's take gas prices. First oil production is heavily subsidized by politicians their lobbyists donate a lot to. Secondly, the companies we subsidized and give permits to drill for our oil sell it on the global market leaving American consumers subject to the demand of that global market. Thirdly, operating as a cartel to keep production at a rate that ensures global demand remains high while politically attacking energy alternatives is just good business, especially if no one is going to check you. We could make a deal to nationalize some of that product for American consumers but I guess that would be dirty communism.

And allow capitalism to reign unchecked? Who in that scenario is looking out for the average American?

1. OK, so Biden lied about ending fossil fuels. That makes more sense than trying to end them
2. We have enough oil for now, but the US oil producers are being mistreated in favor of foreign supply.
3. Yeah I know that EVs are stacking up in lots and production is being cut. That's how capitalism works.
4. Yeah, if you want to really want to fuck something up...nationalize it.
5. Democrats micromanaging the US economy is moronic. Like when AOC fought off Amazon's HQ2 in her district. All those jobs and all that beautiful architecture...gone to VA. Cuomo estimated $33b in state revenue lost. We can't fix stupid after they get elected.

Before I forget. You never replied to this post regarding our discussion on whether the big-bang happened by itself, or if God created it.
2. God created the universe allowing various life forms to evolve. How those various life forms evolve is random chance. Good things and bad thing happen, including sickness, suffering, and death.

3. An omnipotent God can create a universe according to finely tuned laws specific to that universe. There is no "nature" until He fine tunes it.

4. What is life? You can google it for a definition. Then again, what is consciousness? What is a soul? We agree that there could be finely-tuned universes with different parameters. Nothing excludes the existence of a God creator of a universe or a multiverse.

5. This is the key proof of God. Are there any failed universes? We don't know. What we do know is that the universe began from a speck of energy about the size of an atom that expanded and created the Earth, the Milky Way, and the billions (trillions?) of other universes. If you look around at how many atoms are around you, can you imagine one speck of energy about the size of an atom creating the entire universe? To many of us that tiny magical speck of energy could only have come from God.

6. Given different parameters no one knows if a different universe could have formed or not. But you still have the question, where did that tiny speck of magical energy come from? Your argument seems to be that there are these magical specks spewing out universes or not all the time. That's a lot of magical energy to end up with a random mess of universes. I like the idea that a God creates perfect universes, or not, according to His mood. <g>

7. Shooting down his atheistic arguments depends upon how the universe came into being. Why did the universe come into being? The atheists seem to believe that the universe always existed, since energy can't be created or destroyed. There is no way that atheists can tap-dance around time and thermodynamics that explains how the universe's energy could go back to the size of an atom, a "big crunch". No way that can happen.

8. Where did that speck of magical energy come from? Was it the universe condensed down to the size of an atom, or was it created by God from nothing? Science proves that the universe could not have existed before the atom-sized speck of energy was created.

 

[BlindBoo]

1. 300,000 bpd of Canadian oil. It goes to market and lowers prices. You like paying more? I don't.

2. Biden killed ANWR. When Trump comes in watch how fast it opens up.

Biden ends drilling in ANWR, sparking criticism, as Willow Project moves forward

The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is home to dozens of species — and to an ongoing political fight over oil and gas. Now, the Biden administration is hoping ending oil and gas leases will be a win.

www.wunc.org

Revoking that construction permit did nothing do decrease US production. Imho he should have used it as a bargaining chip, but c'est la vie.

Big oil knows how expensive drilling in ANWR will be. Compared to drilling in the Gulf and in the Permian Basin it's a no brainer.

When the God of Retribution fails in 2024, the US Oil patch will still be in record production territory.

 

[Godboy]

Why would Republicans object to the removal of Confederate monuments if the Confederates were Democrats???

Im an atheist and im against the destruction of ancient religious sites.

 

[Robert W]

I'll take your "13 former presidents" on face value.
But if true, which of them? how many of them?.......took up arms against the United States of America and directed others of like mind to go kill soldiers of the United States of America?

And that .......is the distinction that makes the difference.

It should be reworded to remove the united states of america and insert the lawful government.

Washington is a traitor per the forums Democrats.
George is must be admitted had the double whammy of being a slaver plus he committed treason. Washington killed the lawful government soldiers. Then per the current Democrats, the word Washington and his statues should every one of them be removed.

 

[Robert W]

Revoking that construction permit did nothing do decrease US production. Imho he should have used it as a bargaining chip, but c'est la vie.

Big oil knows how expensive drilling in ANWR will be. Compared to drilling in the Gulf and in the Permian Basin it's a no brainer.

When the God of Retribution fails in 2024, the US Oil patch will still be in record production territory.

I created a thread this day for the topic you are discussing

 

[BlindBoo]

But it was a noble attempt to re-unite the Union instead of turning the Southern states into vassals and permanently occupied territory.

For the Freemen and their descendants, it was anything but noble.

 

[BackAgain]

It should be reworded to remove the united states of america and insert the lawful government.

Washington is a traitor per the forums Democrats.
George is must be admitted had the double whammy of being a slaver plus he committed treason. Washington killed the lawful government soldiers. Then per the current Democrats, the word Washington and his statues should every one of them be removed.

I see many people making the mistake of trying to be reasonable with the inherently unreasonable folks like Chilliconfuzed and most libturd Democraps.

The minds and psyches and sense of morality of societies change over time. Yes, Washington and Jefferson had slaves. But they lived in a time when it was only beginning to dawn on people and societies that this was an evil.

So, now, we see many folks making the convenient but silly mistake of judging them by today’s standards. And these highly judgmental present day individuals cannot wrap their heads around why they are being hypocritical.

 

[Curried Goats]

I see many people making the mistake of trying to be reasonable with the inherently unreasonable folks like Chilliconfuzed and most libturd Democraps.

The minds and psyches and sense of morality of societies change over time. Yes, Washington and Jefferson had slaves. But they lived in a time when it was only beginning to dawn on people and societies that this was an evil.

So, now, we see many folks making the convenient but silly mistake of judging them by today’s standards. And these highly judgmental present day individuals cannot wrap their heads around why they are being hypocritical.

This is a patronizing view of Washington and Jefferson. You can't enslave children and not know the suffering you're causing. You just don't care.

 

[Robert W]

Because Washington was smarter than Lee and knew that the Brits would eventually become tired of fighting and dying. All he had to do was keep his army intact and forge an alliance with one of the UK enemies. Lee believed in a stand up fight, and the righteous side would be victorious. Washington knew he was fighting a war of attrition with the UK having more resources. He picked his battles better or he would have been hung for treason. At least that's what I learned in History. But I'm old.

Double standards is what you plead!!!!
I am trying to focus all of us on monuments kept or monuments destroyed.

I truly do not actually believe George Washington was smarter than Lee. You know the Generalship of Lee has been taught at Westpoint and other American military schools.

Nobody knew what you claim Washington knew about the Brits.

Lee did not want a fight. Lee happened to be an extraordinary General who is very highly praised among our own schools. Had Washinton been captured, there is no doubt he would have been hung. And the history of this country would be far different.

Abe provoked a fight. And this country to this very day is still suffering because of it. Had Abe stood back and let the South alone, slavery would have faded away and not been the same kind of topic as it is today. I personally don't care about slavery since it happened far to early for it to affect me. In my life, only the slavery from the Mexican border concerns me.

 

[Robert W]

I see many people making the mistake of trying to be reasonable with the inherently unreasonable folks like Chilliconfuzed and most libturd Democraps.

The minds and psyches and sense of morality of societies change over time. Yes, Washington and Jefferson had slaves. But they lived in a time when it was only beginning to dawn on people and societies that this was an evil.

So, now, we see many folks making the convenient but silly mistake of judging them by today’s standards. And these highly judgmental present day individuals cannot wrap their heads around why they are being hypocritical.

That's right. Even some here who it seems allege they are intellectuals still do not understand this country at all. They think the time is ripe to convert democrats to heroes by purging their earlier heroes.

I read that the beautiful statue of Robert E. Lee at Richmond Va is now puddles of metal. They destroyed a wonderful piece of art.

 

[BackAgain]

This is a patronizing view of Washington and Jefferson. You can't enslave children and not know the suffering you're causing. You just don't care.

Bullshit.

Once again, you are viewing their lives through your own perceptual filter.

But that’s not unexpected coming from you.

Today, you and I can blithely agree that slavery is wrong. We can agree that being a slave is an awful thing. We can empathize with the poor slave children of enslaved adults.

But what makes you assume that folks shared this view of such matters back in a day when slavery wasn’t even yet universally seen as “wrong.”

The issue has nothing at all to do with my caring. You’re really a very trite little man.