Conservative Senators: Defund Obamacare or Shut Down Governmen

[dblack]

*snip*


Yet even as Republican politicians seem ready to go on the offensive, there’s a palpable sense of anxiety, even despair, among conservative pundits and analysts. Better-informed people on the right seem, finally, to be facing up to a horrible truth: Health care reform, President Obama’s signature policy achievement, is probably going to work.


And the good news about Obamacare is, I’d argue, what’s driving the Republican Party’s intensified extremism. Successful health reform wouldn’t just be a victory for a president conservatives loathe, it would be an object demonstration of the falseness of right-wing ideology. So Republicans are being driven into a last, desperate effort to head this thing off at the pass.


Some background: Although you’d never know it from all the fulminations, with prominent Republicans routinely comparing Obamacare to slavery, the Affordable Care Act is based on three simple ideas. First, all Americans should have access to affordable insurance, even if they have pre-existing medical problems. Second, people should be induced or required to buy insurance even if they’re currently healthy, so that the risk pool remains reasonably favorable. Third, to prevent the insurance “mandate” from being too onerous, there should be subsidies to hold premiums down as a share of income.


Is such a system workable? For a while, Republicans convinced themselves that it was doomed to failure, and that they could profit politically from the inevitable “train wreck.” But a system along exactly these lines has been operating in Massachusetts since 2006, where it was introduced by a Republican governor. What was his name? Mitt Somethingorother? And no trains have been wrecked so far.

This is why I've never been interesting in the arguments for or against the policy based on whether it would 'work' (such an approach also begs the question of what one means by 'work', as everyone seems to have a different end game in mind with health care reform). The pragmatic argument leads us into ends-justifies-the-means thinking, and with government the means is crucially important. Any number of unjust, freedom-killing initiatives could 'work' when it comes to solving social problems. Slavery 'worked' for hundreds of years.

 

[RKMBrown]

Since no flat tax has ever been proposed that does not raise taxes over the poor while cutting it for the wealthy........sounds like a dumb idea

That's because you're a brainwashed fascist.

We have the fattest "poor" people in the world. People should have to pay for the services they consume. When they have no skin in the game, they continue to demand more, because it costs them nothing.

If the "poor" paid for their own demands at an equal rate as the rich, they'd take more responsibility for their own lives. They would demand more efficiency, and there wouldn't be an army of buearucrat regulators undermining every enterprise and increasing the cost of every product we buy in order to justify their salaries. You seem to prefer mindless consumers. The rest of us prefer people who are consciously involved.

Which slice of the pie chart should we concentrate raising tax revenue from? The slice that has .2% of the wealth or the other 99.8%??

Why do conservatives continue to blame the 40% of Americans who only have two tenths of a percent of our wealth?

Huh? Do you not understand the difference between assets and income? NVM ROFL You want my property, come get it dirt bag.

 

[dblack]

IRS employee union: We don’t want Obamacare!​

IRS employee union: We don?t want Obamacare | WashingtonExaminer.com

They should lobby for commission checks from the insurance industry - now that they are a crucial part of the 'sales team'.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes.. God forbid in a free society that you accumulate anything

I know... you have $2mil in assets, including an 800K house you have paid off.. you get taxed on in this year for say 20%... takes you down to $1.6MIL... you don't have a good year and you lose $100K in investment wealth and bills... you're down to $1.5MIL... next year comes around and you're taxed at 20% again.. taking you down to $1.2MIL... you break even the next year, but here comes that 20% tax again and you're now down to $960K.... you do OK and amass an extra 40K the next year, but here comes the 20% tax again, and everything but your house must now be taken away because you are down to 800K in wealth... and keep playing that scenario out...

IDIOTIC

I O U +rep for this.

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

 

[Harry Dresden]

.but yet all you dumbasses keep on voting for them....again and again.....

You have to admit though the choices are somewhat limited by the fact that candidates from the major parties are pretty much "pre chosen" by politically connected and/or monied interests well before the general public gets a say so in the matter. Thus the voter is most likely to be faced with a "lesser of two evils" decision.

In this day and age it's very rare any candidate can have a realistic shot at a nomination without the blessing of the power brokers so we've essentially come to the point where we have two elections (one where the power brokers pick the field and one where the voters get to choose from the field). There are exceptions of course but those seem to be far and few in between, sadly the days of a candidate STANDING for office based upon his/her own merits are long gone, a victim of our nefarious duopoly.

"However (political parties) may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion" -- George Washington

In this day and age it's very rare any candidate can have a realistic shot at a nomination without the blessing of the power brokers

that would change if all these "party" people who do nothing but bitch about who got elected and what they are not doing ...again.....would grow a pair and back someone not affiliated with the two scourges of America....

 

[JakeStarkey]

I O U +rep for this.

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

No, it does not, only demonstrates the extremism to which the anti-tax crowd will resort,

Guys and Gals, you will pay your fair share.

 

[RKMBrown]

I O U +rep for this.

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

You may miss-understand him. I'm thinking he's one of those folks who actually wants to redistribute everyone's assets every year. People that have nothing and have no desire to work for anything, have nothing to loose. Think Cuba. Remember the democrats who all came back from cuba decrying out wonderful it was there?

 

[Pete7469]

I O U +rep for this.

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

I avoid stupid by ignoring bed wetting Fakey boy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Reactionary and libertarian bed wetters are fun to watch as they go nuts.

 

[Pete7469]

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

You may miss-understand him. I'm thinking he's one of those folks who actually wants to redistribute everyone's assets every year. People that have nothing and have no desire to work for anything, have nothing to loose. Think Cuba. Remember the democrats who all came back from cuba decrying out wonderful it was there?

We need to open up travel for democrooks to Cuba. One way, no return. It would be an excellent investment to subsidize the travel.

 

[RKMBrown]

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

No, it does not, only demonstrates the extremism to which the anti-tax crowd will resort,

Guys and Gals, you will pay your fair share.

Fair share... what is that? How is it defined this word fair. Who gets to say what is fair or not, you?

 

[DiamondDave]

Reactionary opinions, yep, and stupid. This is an opinion board, though, so even stupid is allowed.

Except a simple mathematical example shows the ridiculousness of your 'taxing wealth' idea

No, it does not, only demonstrates the extremism to which the anti-tax crowd will resort,

Guys and Gals, you will pay your fair share.

1) Fair is SUBJECTIVE
2) Want an example how the wealth tax would prevent people starting out from amassing pretty much anything?? Easily given....
3) The only one that benefits from a wealth tax is the government.. plain and simple.. it keeps almost the whole of the populace dependent on government and encourages people hoarding cash in mattresses and jars in the back yard in order to keep anything

 

[Harry Dresden]

and synth posts an opinion piece as proof.. again... priceless

This is an opinion message board.

there are lots here who feel anytime you say something you have to have a link..(cough) Dean even if its your opinion.....

 

[Pete7469]

This is why I've never been interesting in the arguments for or against the policy based on whether it would 'work' (such an approach also begs the question of what one means by 'work', as everyone seems to have a different end game in mind with health care reform). The pragmatic argument leads us into ends-justifies-the-means thinking, and with government the means is crucially important. Any number of unjust, freedom-killing initiatives could 'work' when it comes to solving social problems. Slavery 'worked' for hundreds of years.

What we have now is another form of slavery. It doesn't require work, just voting. The results are about the same, squalid living conditions, low quality food, a constant threat of violence, families torn apart, and little means to escape.

 

[NightFox]

and synth posts an opinion piece as proof.. again... priceless

This is an opinion message board.

there are lots here who feel anytime you say something you have to have a link....even if its your opinion.....

Sadly a common practice among those that are incapable of forming an opinion until some web site tells them what their opinion should be. To such people forming an opinion on your own is as mystical as quantum mechanics is to a sea gull.

 

[Plasmaball]

Will the pubs stand their ground?

Will they cave?

Hearing more and more this is the last chance to avoid a complete ACA disaster.

Could this be the spark that starts the Civil unrest many say is coming?

Is this why Obama mandated and created his civilian Army "just as strong, just as well funded'?

How about the DHS and FEMA camps? The extreme ammo purchases by DHS?

Will this be the reason?

Will SHTF for real?

If the government does not get funded, and EBT cards no longer work...

Well




Conservative Senators: Defund Obamacare or Shut Down Government - ABC News

Conservative senators are threatening to shut down the government unless the implementation of Obamacare is halted.
Having railed against the Affordable Care Act (ACA) since before it passed, a group of Senate conservatives will take their fight to a new level, publicly refusing to fund the federal government if the ACA’s implementation continues.
Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) will unveil a letter on Thursday, signed by an undisclosed number of colleagues, promising to vote down the next continuing resolution if it funds ACA implementation. The current funding measure runs out Sept. 30. Unless Congress passes a new funding measure by that date, the government will shut down.

its literally the same shit with you people very fucking day. Seriously get a fucking life already.

 

[peach174]

Yes, we have heard that before

Government is useless unless Republicans are running things

This government refuses to do their job of protecting property rights and defending our borders. Instead it straps chains on us, makes us strip at airports, steals our property to redistribute it to swine, and sends our troops to defend all borders other than our own,. This government needs to be fired then keel hulled.

Hyperbole?

Turn off rightwing talk radio and look at actual statistics. Guess what? Illegal border crossings are way down under Obama. He has INCREASED border security

Quit whining about your paying taxes being stealing. We are paying near all time historic lows in taxes.

You would have a totally different view of that out right twist & spin, they are telling us, if you actually lived near the border.
Yes more are getting caught, but where there is no fence and large amounts of National Parks or Indian Lands - land that the border agents are not able to patrol they are crossing in huge numbers.

The red dots are Stations.
The open areas is where agents patrol.
From Nogalas to Ajo is 191 miles. You can't hire enough nor do we have the money to really patrol these large open spaces.

These areas are where they are coming across in huge numbers. Many of them are not Mexicans or people from South America.

One Cochise County agent says - “The smuggling traffic of Mexicans has really slowed. We are experiencing a tremendous increase in OTMs” – border lingo for “other than Mexicans.” When queried about the ethnic make up of the OTMs, he answered, “Central and South Americans, Orientals and Middle-Easterners.” Middle-Easterners? “Yeah, it varies, but about one in every 10 that we catch, is from a country like Yemen or Egypt.”

Border Patrol spokesperson Rene Noriega stated that the number of other-than-Mexican detentions has grown by 42 percent. Most of the non-Mexican migrants are from El Salvador and other parts of Central America, she said, but added that agents have picked up people from all over the world, including the former Soviet Union, Asia and the Middle East.

The best way to handle this is to not give them the incentives to come here and for them to come here legally like all the rest of us have done.

 

[peach174]

Will the pubs stand their ground?

Will they cave?

Hearing more and more this is the last chance to avoid a complete ACA disaster.

Could this be the spark that starts the Civil unrest many say is coming?

Is this why Obama mandated and created his civilian Army "just as strong, just as well funded'?

How about the DHS and FEMA camps? The extreme ammo purchases by DHS?

Will this be the reason?

Will SHTF for real?

If the government does not get funded, and EBT cards no longer work...

Well




Conservative Senators: Defund Obamacare or Shut Down Government - ABC News

Conservative senators are threatening to shut down the government unless the implementation of Obamacare is halted.
Having railed against the Affordable Care Act (ACA) since before it passed, a group of Senate conservatives will take their fight to a new level, publicly refusing to fund the federal government if the ACA’s implementation continues.
Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) will unveil a letter on Thursday, signed by an undisclosed number of colleagues, promising to vote down the next continuing resolution if it funds ACA implementation. The current funding measure runs out Sept. 30. Unless Congress passes a new funding measure by that date, the government will shut down.

its literally the same shit with you people very fucking day. Seriously get a fucking life already.

No one is forcing you to be here or to read anything.
Why don't you get a life?

 

[dblack]

This is why I've never been interesting in the arguments for or against the policy based on whether it would 'work' (such an approach also begs the question of what one means by 'work', as everyone seems to have a different end game in mind with health care reform). The pragmatic argument leads us into ends-justifies-the-means thinking, and with government the means is crucially important. Any number of unjust, freedom-killing initiatives could 'work' when it comes to solving social problems. Slavery 'worked' for hundreds of years.

What we have now is another form of slavery. It doesn't require work, just voting. The results are about the same, squalid living conditions, low quality food, a constant threat of violence, families torn apart, and little means to escape.

Not really sure what you're getting at with this comment, but slavery isn't defined by poor living conditions. It's being owned by someone else - having no freedom. Indeed, the prospect of improved living conditions was often used as a justification for slavery.

 

[Plasmaball]

Will the pubs stand their ground?

Will they cave?

Hearing more and more this is the last chance to avoid a complete ACA disaster.

Could this be the spark that starts the Civil unrest many say is coming?

Is this why Obama mandated and created his civilian Army "just as strong, just as well funded'?

How about the DHS and FEMA camps? The extreme ammo purchases by DHS?

Will this be the reason?

Will SHTF for real?

If the government does not get funded, and EBT cards no longer work...

Well




Conservative Senators: Defund Obamacare or Shut Down Government - ABC News

Conservative senators are threatening to shut down the government unless the implementation of Obamacare is halted.
Having railed against the Affordable Care Act (ACA) since before it passed, a group of Senate conservatives will take their fight to a new level, publicly refusing to fund the federal government if the ACA’s implementation continues.
Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) will unveil a letter on Thursday, signed by an undisclosed number of colleagues, promising to vote down the next continuing resolution if it funds ACA implementation. The current funding measure runs out Sept. 30. Unless Congress passes a new funding measure by that date, the government will shut down.

its literally the same shit with you people very fucking day. Seriously get a fucking life already.

No one is forcing you to be here or to read anything.
Why don't you get a life?

i have one, but you would think you losers would understand the fema camps are never going to happen, there are no ovens ( sadly) the ammo myth is nothing more than your lack of an IQ understanding what is going on.

there is no civil war that is going to happen. Oh thats right, you guys don't want a civil war but do at the sametime.

There is no civilian army coming to take you away.

All this shit is in your fucking moronic heads. You paranoid, delusional, low rent losers.