Conservatives, the fight is not over!

[Fenton Lum]

And really, aren't we all here to screech "librule" and insults endlessly. Again, exactly how we got here and why the trend line shall continue. The system floats on this shit. Clinton or Trump. Won't matter etiher way, the same trjectory will be the result. It's all theater.

What the hell is "librule"?

Morons are SO predictable... as soon as the discussion gets going, here comes this same old standardized cynicism. ALL politicians are crooked... ALL of them are bad... it's ALL the same thing! As long as you're knocking out one liberal progressive victory after another, things are peachy keen... no problems with the world... all is good! Whenever that is threatened or challenged, look out... here comes the cynicism.

Actually no, but you're not really here to talk about anything so ....

 

[EriktheRed]

I care about results. As a wise man said, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact". Since there was legislation that enabled the bailouts that gave the Executive Branch authority to administer the bailout, there really isn't an issue with 'the law' here except in your fetid imagination.

And the fact that Obama makes dumb ass inbred rednecks from Texas like you upset is just icing on the cake.

Damn you're one stupid son of a bitch, I wasn't talking about the bailout boondoggle, I was talking about the bankruptcy laws. But you already knew that, and when is GM going to pay the tax payers back?

Maybe you missed this part of what he said:

Since there was legislation that enabled the bailouts that gave the Executive Branch authority to administer the bailout, there really isn't an issue with 'the law' here except in your fetid imagination.

And he's right...it's mainly just in the minds of idiot wingnuts such as yourself that the President's administration actually did anything wrong.

You do realize the bailouts had nothing to do with the bankruptcy proceedings, right? Two different laws, two different procedures. But hey feel free to post a link where the bailout law suspended bankruptcy law. No hurry, I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a long, long time.

Here's another idea: how about you post a link discussing the Obama Admin being taken to court over what you claim is "lawless". It's been done before, after all.

So that's your standard? You apply the same thing to W? He's only guilty of what has been proven in a court of law? So you defend him when leftists make accusations since he's been convicted of nothing? Funny, I don't see you doing that ...

I've personally never called for his impeachment or called his policies "lawless" and in some cases I actually have told others who were calling for impeachment of him wrong.

As far as this particular subjecting that were deflecting from is concerned, from what I've read about it, there isn't anything that legally obligated this current admin to act any way other than they did in disbursing the bailout money.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

You a Free Market Conservative? Free Markets have nothing to do with tax rates you fucking idiot.

Yes, and obviously, you're NOT a free market conservative. Free markets have EVERYTHING to do with tax rates, you moron. Earned Income Tax applies to the profits made by free market capitalist entrepreneurs in every small business in America! Every free market conservative knows this intuitively, it's not in question at all. You sound like some fucked-in-the-head Keynesian idiot spewing utter nonsense out your blowhole.

And I have to say... it seems very apparent that others here see just how idiotic you are being because they are replying to you just as I have... you're swatting away left and right at those who are telling you what a moron you are... is that not making an impression on your stupid ass?

Free markets don't have anything to do with tax rates it has to do with fewer regulations. Free markets are based on the economy, supply and demand, and labor. What you should be exclaiming if you are truly a free market constitutional conservative is we should reduce government spending and lessen the tax burden. The only one talking out their blowhole is you.

OKTexas was discussing your inept claim that Trump would appoint a SCJ, I stated he couldn't do it unless the Senate confirmed the nomination.

Iceweasel jumped into his own mess putting his nose where it doesn't belong.

If you're going to post here it's everyone's business, you smug asshole. If you want a private conversation there are ways to do it. There is no such thing as "the" free market. Markets aren't pure, nothing is without restraint. A totally free market would be anarchy and no government would exist by definition. Pop your head out of your ass, you aren't impressing anybody.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

 

[kaz]

Damn you're one stupid son of a bitch, I wasn't talking about the bailout boondoggle, I was talking about the bankruptcy laws. But you already knew that, and when is GM going to pay the tax payers back?

Maybe you missed this part of what he said:

Since there was legislation that enabled the bailouts that gave the Executive Branch authority to administer the bailout, there really isn't an issue with 'the law' here except in your fetid imagination.

And he's right...it's mainly just in the minds of idiot wingnuts such as yourself that the President's administration actually did anything wrong.

You do realize the bailouts had nothing to do with the bankruptcy proceedings, right? Two different laws, two different procedures. But hey feel free to post a link where the bailout law suspended bankruptcy law. No hurry, I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a long, long time.

Here's another idea: how about you post a link discussing the Obama Admin being taken to court over what you claim is "lawless". It's been done before, after all.

So that's your standard? You apply the same thing to W? He's only guilty of what has been proven in a court of law? So you defend him when leftists make accusations since he's been convicted of nothing? Funny, I don't see you doing that ...

I've personally never called for his impeachment or called his policies "lawless" and in some cases I actually have told others who were calling for impeachment of him wrong.

As far as this particular subjecting that were deflecting from is concerned, from what I've read about it, there isn't anything that legally obligated this current admin to act any way other than they did in disbursing the bailout money.

My point was regarding your inane argument that no one can criticize people you like for anything they haven't been convicted in a court of law as having committed. It's inane and obviously you don't follow that yourself

 

[Fenton Lum]

LMFAO the overwhelming majority of small business owners are not in the 1% you fucking idiot.

Of Earned Income Taxpayers, YES... they ARE!

NO they ARE NOT!

Trump isn't talking about raising Earned Income Tax Brackets that. In fact he is talking about having only 4 tax brackets: 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven.

Again... No, he has recently said "I'm not a big fan" [of the majority of his tax cuts going to the top 1%] and he plans for their rate to go up. He has SAID... "We have to tax the rich more!" What he WAS talking about was fine... I liked his tax plan... I defended it here several times against stupid liberals who didn't get it. But he has now lurched left on it... he says we have to "raise taxes on the rich" like some kind of fucked-in-the-head liberal kook who doesn't understand the way our tax system works. "The Rich" aren't making their money through Earned Income and pay very little Earned Income Tax. Raising the top marginal earned income tax rates (what he said) is stupid and only hurts small businesses.

You see this is where your ignorance shines bright, thinking that small business owners are the 1%. You must be one of those fucked-in-the-head liberal kooks since what he has proposed would reduce tax rates on Earned Income (Net Profit - personal income). He never stated we should raise the top marginal earned income tax rates. SMFH

He is only talking about closing corporate loop holes:

No... In a totally different conversation about corporate taxation he has said that but he has not been specific about what "loopholes" he wants to close. A "loophole" in corporate taxation context, is basically a tax incentive that we have passed at one time or another in order to address some problem or issue facing many Americans. I can't sit here and defend them all, but every single one of them has a reason and purpose for existing and Congress held debates to argue why we should or should not have them. Personally, I am all for eliminating all the "loopholes" and lowering the tax rate to near zero for corporations, particularly if we can incentivize domesticity. You keep your money and jobs HERE and you can pay 5% corporate tax with no loopholes.

But Trump was NOT talking about corporate tax rates in the interview I raised questions with.

What interview is it you think he stated to raise the top marginal earned income tax rates in? You seem to be projecting based on some other phrase that you are mis-interpreting. In a town-hall interview he was asked if he believed in raising taxes on the wealthy, to which he said he does, and his ideals are to close loopholes to do so, such as the Carried Interest loophole.

The biggest winners under Donald Trump's tax plan

Again... IDIOT... We don't tax WEALTH in America! That is a Socialist-Marxist propaganda tool. We've NEVER taxed WEALTH in this country! We tax income... we tax capital gains... we tax property... we do not tax WEALTH! Now you and Trump can BUY IN to the class warfare rhetoric of the progressives if you want to... but you're STUPID!

And yes... he most certainly DID say, in an interview on Thursday with CNBC, that he's "not a big fan" of the proposals in his tax cut plan which provide tax relief for top wage earners and he plans to "tax the rich." So he has now abandoned Conservatism and is spouting the Socialist-Marxist class warfare propaganda.

I don't care if you don't believe me... do some fucking research! Small businesses pay the overwhelming majority of the "Top 1%" of taxes on Earned Income because that's how they report. That's who he (and progressives) are talking about increasing taxes on... that's who they consider "The Rich!"

Linking me to stuff about Trump's tax proposal or his town halls is pointless... I already said, I was a supporter of his tax plan. But he is NOW changing his tune on his OWN tax plan! He says "I'm not a big fan" ...of his OWN TAX PLAN!

In two days, following his coronation as GOP nominee, he has completely caved on two key conservative principles. He is now leaning toward a minimum wage increase (which will kill jobs) and increasing the top marginal earned income tax rates (which harms small business). He has taken to spewing the left-wing talking point about "taxing the rich" as if he doesn't understand we don't tax wealth in America. And here YOU are, continuing to wave your pom-poms, seemingly oblivious to what he is saying NOW... in total contradiction of what he has said on the campaign trail.

Yes... someone needs to be shaking their damn head but it's not YOU... you keep shaking your head and marbles keep falling out... you're losing them all!

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot. Don't create a strawman so that you can knock it down and try to look as though you know more than you actually do.

Trump stated he is for taxing the wealthy (that is with a Y) by closing some loopholes like Carried Interest, which in effect would increase their taxes.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.
So-called wealthy are actually small business owners? The data is dubious
Buffett Rule would only hit 1% of small business owners

That is, it's likely that only 1% of small business owners would be directly affected by the latest proposal to raise taxes on the rich, according to data from the U.S. Treasury Department.​

Small Business Owners and the Top 1% - Barbara Weltman

According to Forbes, to be within this elite income group, a person needs annual income of about $394,000 from personal services or investments. According to the IRS, you need income of about $389,000 (based on figures from 2011 tax returns). This group reported 19% of all the taxable income in the U.S. and paid 35% of all federal income taxes for individuals.

Small business owners
Almost all of small businesses in the U.S. are set up in such a way—as sole proprietorships, partnerships, limited liability companies, or S corporations—that owners pay personal income taxes on their share of business profits. How many small business owners fall within the top one-percenters? It’s difficult to tell. Here are some clues:

• From IRS statistics, of the more than 8 million owners who had Schedule K-1 income from partnerships (including LLCs that report as partnerships) and S corporations, they had income of $425,384,000,000. This works out to about $53,000 of income per owner, which is a far cry from the approximately $390,000 of income needed to fall within the top 1%. But these are averages, so some may well have income from businesses and other sources putting them in the top 1%.
• According to the Urban Brookings Tax Policy Center, of the income reported by the top 1%, 24% came from business income.
• Payscale reports that the median salary for small business owners is $77,180; this would be something limited to S corporation owner-employees and does not take into account owners’ share of profits.

Top 5%
Even if only a handful of small business owners fall within the top 1%, many probably find themselves in the top 5% of individuals.

The U.S. Census Bureau fixes the threshold for the 5% group at household income of $232,000. And it is within this group that many of the federal tax limitations, surtaxes, and other restrictions begin to apply.
​

You don't appear to know how to research then. The rest of your frothing is nothing more than soundbites and mis-interpretation which appears to be pretty common with you since you don't understand the difference between tax brackets and tax rates, changing wealthy into wealth, etc. SMFH

Again... stop shaking your head, your marbles are falling out.

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot.

Yes, you ARE saying that we tax wealth if you state we need to "tax the rich" by increasing the tax rates on top marginal wage earners. That's exactly what the phrase means and what it applies to. It is a complete abandonment of Conservative free market principles and capitulation to the left-wing class warfare propaganda.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.

If you are looking at the "Top 1%" of wealthy people in America then you are correct... Most small businesses are not among the Top 1% of wealthy people in America. But that's not who we tax with Earned Income tax rates... We don't tax wealth, we tax Earned Income. You are assuming.. like the Marxist idiots on the left... that someone who earns a high income is wealthy and that's not the case. The Top 1% of Earned Income Tax Payers.... are Small Businesses! They are NOT the wealthy... they may one day BE the wealthy... they're trying to become wealthy.... that's what Capitalism in a free market is ALL about!

Trump was SPECIFICALLY talking about his tax cut proposals on Earned Income Tax Payers. You are dishonestly trying to jump over to his proposals on other tax formulas which are unrelated to tax on Earned Income. Where in the living hell have people like you been the past 35-40 years we've been making these arguments? You act like this is all new or some radical idea that you've never heard... and it's boilerplate conservative free market economics.

Are there SOME super-wealthy people in the Top 1% who have Earned Income? Of course, and they don't mind paying whatever rate the government puts on it... it's insignificant to their overall earnings and wealth. What little amount of Earned Income they may have, you can tax that at 91% and it doesn't matter to them. But that is a relatively small number of people who are in the high end of the earned income bracket. The overwhelming majority of high earned income earners are small business entrepreneurs who file as individuals on their tax returns. Taxing THEM at 91% will essentially kill about 76% of our jobs because you will put these people out of business. We simply CAN'T do that in order to prop up some Marxist-Socialist MEME!

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes, and obviously, you're NOT a free market conservative. Free markets have EVERYTHING to do with tax rates, you moron. Earned Income Tax applies to the profits made by free market capitalist entrepreneurs in every small business in America! Every free market conservative knows this intuitively, it's not in question at all. You sound like some fucked-in-the-head Keynesian idiot spewing utter nonsense out your blowhole.

And I have to say... it seems very apparent that others here see just how idiotic you are being because they are replying to you just as I have... you're swatting away left and right at those who are telling you what a moron you are... is that not making an impression on your stupid ass?

Free markets don't have anything to do with tax rates it has to do with fewer regulations. Free markets are based on the economy, supply and demand, and labor. What you should be exclaiming if you are truly a free market constitutional conservative is we should reduce government spending and lessen the tax burden. The only one talking out their blowhole is you.

OKTexas was discussing your inept claim that Trump would appoint a SCJ, I stated he couldn't do it unless the Senate confirmed the nomination.

Iceweasel jumped into his own mess putting his nose where it doesn't belong.

If you're going to post here it's everyone's business, you smug asshole. If you want a private conversation there are ways to do it. There is no such thing as "the" free market. Markets aren't pure, nothing is without restraint. A totally free market would be anarchy and no government would exist by definition. Pop your head out of your ass, you aren't impressing anybody.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

 

[Boss]

Accept I haven't stated we need to "tax the rich" nor have I stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". You seem confused over the entire discussion, I suggest you go back and re-read it, then start over. The rest of your incoherent rambling is nothing but static. I have provided links showing you that small business are not the 1%, nor are they even in the 1%. I have shown you how small business files their taxes on their NET income, yet you fail to comprehend even that basic knowledge. Who the fuck is wanting to tax people at 91%, Trump never stated such a thing, nor have I. You keep up those strawmen though, it really helps you to look ignorant as all hell.

We're not discussing what YOU'VE said... Moron! You seem to be confused. I suggest YOU go back and read over.

You've not provided jack shit other than liberal left-wing propagandist talking points that free market conservatives have been refuting with fact for the past 40 years. You and Trump are sounding more and more like Bernie Sanders supporters. Maybe THAT is who Trump and you are attempting to appeal to?

We are discussing what Trump stated, and he didn't state what you are claiming. He didn't state he was going to "tax the rich", he never once stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". This is all your projection based on his response to a question. You're the one providing liberal left-wing propagandist talking points to try to protect what you claim are free market conservatives, when you don't really seem to have a basic understanding of what the free market actually is, let alone what a conservative is.

Well yes he DID state it. You maybe missed it because you were busy doing your victory dance... but he said it. In fact, he has used the term "we're going to tax the rich" several times. It is one of the primary reasons I don't believe he is a conservative and I have problems with him as a candidate.

You can be his apologist, you can live in denial, you can make excuses... it's not going to change what the man has said. If you AGREE with what he has said, you're not a Conservative and you fail to recognize Marxist-Socialist propaganda.

Again, if you LIKE the ideas Trump is presenting for increasing the minimum wage and raising taxes on the rich but you don't like Trump's personality... check out Bernie Sanders. Same thing, nicer guy saying it!

 

[Indeependent]

Accept I haven't stated we need to "tax the rich" nor have I stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". You seem confused over the entire discussion, I suggest you go back and re-read it, then start over. The rest of your incoherent rambling is nothing but static. I have provided links showing you that small business are not the 1%, nor are they even in the 1%. I have shown you how small business files their taxes on their NET income, yet you fail to comprehend even that basic knowledge. Who the fuck is wanting to tax people at 91%, Trump never stated such a thing, nor have I. You keep up those strawmen though, it really helps you to look ignorant as all hell.

We're not discussing what YOU'VE said... Moron! You seem to be confused. I suggest YOU go back and read over.

You've not provided jack shit other than liberal left-wing propagandist talking points that free market conservatives have been refuting with fact for the past 40 years. You and Trump are sounding more and more like Bernie Sanders supporters. Maybe THAT is who Trump and you are attempting to appeal to?

We are discussing what Trump stated, and he didn't state what you are claiming. He didn't state he was going to "tax the rich", he never once stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". This is all your projection based on his response to a question. You're the one providing liberal left-wing propagandist talking points to try to protect what you claim are free market conservatives, when you don't really seem to have a basic understanding of what the free market actually is, let alone what a conservative is.

Well yes he DID state it. You maybe missed it because you were busy doing your victory dance... but he said it. In fact, he has used the term "we're going to tax the rich" several times. It is one of the primary reasons I don't believe he is a conservative and I have problems with him as a candidate.

You can be his apologist, you can live in denial, you can make excuses... it's not going to change what the man has said. If you AGREE with what he has said, you're not a Conservative and you fail to recognize Marxist-Socialist propaganda.

Again, if you LIKE the ideas Trump is presenting for increasing the minimum wage and raising taxes on the rich but you don't like Trump's personality... check out Bernie Sanders. Same thing, nicer guy saying it!

So "we're going to tax the rich" is a good name for a piece of legislation.
As opposed to "We're going to stimulate the economy by allowing in millions of Illegals and Business Visas".
I know you like the 2nd option.

 

[EriktheRed]

Maybe you missed this part of what he said:

And he's right...it's mainly just in the minds of idiot wingnuts such as yourself that the President's administration actually did anything wrong.

You do realize the bailouts had nothing to do with the bankruptcy proceedings, right? Two different laws, two different procedures. But hey feel free to post a link where the bailout law suspended bankruptcy law. No hurry, I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a long, long time.

Here's another idea: how about you post a link discussing the Obama Admin being taken to court over what you claim is "lawless". It's been done before, after all.

So that's your standard? You apply the same thing to W? He's only guilty of what has been proven in a court of law? So you defend him when leftists make accusations since he's been convicted of nothing? Funny, I don't see you doing that ...

I've personally never called for his impeachment or called his policies "lawless" and in some cases I actually have told others who were calling for impeachment of him wrong.

As far as this particular subjecting that were deflecting from is concerned, from what I've read about it, there isn't anything that legally obligated this current admin to act any way other than they did in disbursing the bailout money.

My point was regarding your inane argument that no one can criticize people you like for anything they haven't been convicted in a court of law as having committed. It's inane and obviously you don't follow that yourself

What is this "no one can criticize people you like for anything they haven't been convicted in a court of law" crap? He used the term "lawless" and I've challenged that assertion. Do you have anything else to add to this besides giving me crap over my posting history?

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Free markets don't have anything to do with tax rates it has to do with fewer regulations. Free markets are based on the economy, supply and demand, and labor. What you should be exclaiming if you are truly a free market constitutional conservative is we should reduce government spending and lessen the tax burden. The only one talking out their blowhole is you.

OKTexas was discussing your inept claim that Trump would appoint a SCJ, I stated he couldn't do it unless the Senate confirmed the nomination.

Iceweasel jumped into his own mess putting his nose where it doesn't belong.

If you're going to post here it's everyone's business, you smug asshole. If you want a private conversation there are ways to do it. There is no such thing as "the" free market. Markets aren't pure, nothing is without restraint. A totally free market would be anarchy and no government would exist by definition. Pop your head out of your ass, you aren't impressing anybody.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

No shit! SMFH and In a free-market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises. All of which I have already stated.

So where do tax rates fit into the "free market"? as BOSS exclaims they do and yet can't show that they do, since tax is not policy rather it is Constitutional Law.

 

[Boss]

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

No, it comes up ALL THE TIME when debating progressive liberal Marxist-Socialists because that's their go-to argument. They promote class warfare because that is the environment which brought their ideology to prominence across Europe and Asia in the 19th and 20th century. It's really the only way one can even justify centralized Marxist-Socialist government. Without developing the perception of class and pitting the underclass against the upper class, you can't make the arguments work.

This worked very well across Europe and Asia where rulers and kings prevailed and the countries did have social classes. We don't have social classes in America, we have a constitution that applies to everyone and we're all part of ONE class... Americans. We are FREE to achieve whatever level of wealth we desire through free markets and free enterprise and we do this every single day.

In order to destroy free market capitalism, you have to first build the perception of class.... the working class... the working poor... the rich... the middle class... all these terms we've incorporated into the debate in order to argue in favor of more centralized government to take control over our freedom as people to define our own class.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you're going to post here it's everyone's business, you smug asshole. If you want a private conversation there are ways to do it. There is no such thing as "the" free market. Markets aren't pure, nothing is without restraint. A totally free market would be anarchy and no government would exist by definition. Pop your head out of your ass, you aren't impressing anybody.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

No shit! SMFH and In a free-market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises. All of which I have already stated.

So where do tax rates fit into the "free market"? as BOSS exclaims they do and yet can't show that they do, since tax is not policy rather it is Constitutional Law.

If you're going to post here it's everyone's business, you smug asshole. If you want a private conversation there are ways to do it. There is no such thing as "the" free market. Markets aren't pure, nothing is without restraint. A totally free market would be anarchy and no government would exist by definition. Pop your head out of your ass, you aren't impressing anybody.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

No shit! SMFH and In a free-market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises. All of which I have already stated.

So where do tax rates fit into the "free market"? as BOSS exclaims they do and yet can't show that they do, since tax is not policy rather it is Constitutional Law.

Using wikipedia? LOL. I quoted what I was asking about. Didn't you see it? "Free markets are based on the economy?"

That's contrary to the meaning, that's why I asked. But as I said, there's no such thing as non intervention by government because it would be anarchy, which eliminates government. And you have to have your conversation with BOSS with BOSS.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Accept I haven't stated we need to "tax the rich" nor have I stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". You seem confused over the entire discussion, I suggest you go back and re-read it, then start over. The rest of your incoherent rambling is nothing but static. I have provided links showing you that small business are not the 1%, nor are they even in the 1%. I have shown you how small business files their taxes on their NET income, yet you fail to comprehend even that basic knowledge. Who the fuck is wanting to tax people at 91%, Trump never stated such a thing, nor have I. You keep up those strawmen though, it really helps you to look ignorant as all hell.

We're not discussing what YOU'VE said... Moron! You seem to be confused. I suggest YOU go back and read over.

You've not provided jack shit other than liberal left-wing propagandist talking points that free market conservatives have been refuting with fact for the past 40 years. You and Trump are sounding more and more like Bernie Sanders supporters. Maybe THAT is who Trump and you are attempting to appeal to?

We are discussing what Trump stated, and he didn't state what you are claiming. He didn't state he was going to "tax the rich", he never once stated "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners". This is all your projection based on his response to a question. You're the one providing liberal left-wing propagandist talking points to try to protect what you claim are free market conservatives, when you don't really seem to have a basic understanding of what the free market actually is, let alone what a conservative is.

Well yes he DID state it. You maybe missed it because you were busy doing your victory dance... but he said it. In fact, he has used the term "we're going to tax the rich" several times. It is one of the primary reasons I don't believe he is a conservative and I have problems with him as a candidate.

You can be his apologist, you can live in denial, you can make excuses... it's not going to change what the man has said. If you AGREE with what he has said, you're not a Conservative and you fail to recognize Marxist-Socialist propaganda.

Again, if you LIKE the ideas Trump is presenting for increasing the minimum wage and raising taxes on the rich but you don't like Trump's personality... check out Bernie Sanders. Same thing, nicer guy saying it!

He stated he was going to "tax the rich" and that "we need to increase the tax rate on the top marginal earners"? Google must really be off today as I can't find him making those statements anywhere. What I did find was him saying he wanted to close loopholes which in effect would cause wealthy peoples taxes to increase yet their tax rates would be lower, doesn't that pretty much wash? I wasn't able to find him exclaiming to increase tax rates on anybody, in fact what was found was that he was cutting taxes rates for everybody, including the rich and the wealthy.

Because I agree with what Trump is claiming because I am able to understand his positions, now I'm not a Conservative? I stated before I am a Classic Liberal, just like you stated you were a social libertarian. Trump never stated he was going to increase the minimum wage. SMFH This is nothing but Marxist-Socialist propaganda that you are falling for, to you if it is in a headline or made up via interpretation of out of context soundbites, it must be true. As I have already stated, you don't seem to be able to do basic research let alone provide credible links that back up your inane claims.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

[]Using wikipedia? LOL. I quoted what I was asking about. Didn't you see it? "Free markets are based on the economy?"

That's contrary to the meaning, that's why I asked. But as I said, there's no such thing as non intervention by government because it would be anarchy, which eliminates government. And you have to have your conversation with BOSS with BOSS.

Its not contrary to the meaning as the free market is a market economy. Wiki does use citations, if you have an issue with what I quoted from there, then take it up with them or prove what I quoted wrong.

I was having my conversation with BOSS until you decided to try to excoriate me for it.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

No, it comes up ALL THE TIME when debating progressive liberal Marxist-Socialists because that's their go-to argument. They promote class warfare because that is the environment which brought their ideology to prominence across Europe and Asia in the 19th and 20th century. It's really the only way one can even justify centralized Marxist-Socialist government. Without developing the perception of class and pitting the underclass against the upper class, you can't make the arguments work.

This worked very well across Europe and Asia where rulers and kings prevailed and the countries did have social classes. We don't have social classes in America, we have a constitution that applies to everyone and we're all part of ONE class... Americans. We are FREE to achieve whatever level of wealth we desire through free markets and free enterprise and we do this every single day.

In order to destroy free market capitalism, you have to first build the perception of class.... the working class... the working poor... the rich... the middle class... all these terms we've incorporated into the debate in order to argue in favor of more centralized government to take control over our freedom as people to define our own class.

We don't have social classes in America, ....

We can't really have a discussion based in abject reality man, I already got that.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

No shit! SMFH and In a free-market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises. All of which I have already stated.

So where do tax rates fit into the "free market"? as BOSS exclaims they do and yet can't show that they do, since tax is not policy rather it is Constitutional Law.

Wow, your a fucking genius! Funny how it is BOSS talking about free markets and the tax rates being part of them and you attacking me over me explaining that tax rates have nothing to do with free markets, you fucking moron. SMFH

Oh, I get it now, you want to be BOSS's knight in shining armor, is that why you started your conversation with me about assholes? I won't give you mine so now you want BOSS's? LMFAO

You really should read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you might be able to follow along. imjusayn

If you wish to make it your business then you should really understand basic English comprehension first. You won't look so damned ignorant if you understood that one thing, but each to his own. :YAWN:

I said what I meant, not what you think I meant. Or wanted me to mean. Like I said, pop your head out of your ass and read the actual words. Free markets are based on the economy? Was that supposed to mean something?

And I meant what I said, you're a fucking genius, telling me things that I have already stated. :YAWN:

It was a question, that's what the question mark is for. Markets create the economy, not the other way around. LOL

No shit! SMFH and In a free-market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises. All of which I have already stated.

So where do tax rates fit into the "free market"? as BOSS exclaims they do and yet can't show that they do, since tax is not policy rather it is Constitutional Law.

Using wikipedia? LOL. I quoted what I was asking about. Didn't you see it? "Free markets are based on the economy?"

That's contrary to the meaning, that's why I asked. But as I said, there's no such thing as non intervention by government because it would be anarchy, which eliminates government. And you have to have your conversation with BOSS with BOSS.

You get your shit you spew from the same ass, so yeah, it's all alike.

 

[kaz]

Of Earned Income Taxpayers, YES... they ARE!

NO they ARE NOT!

Again... No, he has recently said "I'm not a big fan" [of the majority of his tax cuts going to the top 1%] and he plans for their rate to go up. He has SAID... "We have to tax the rich more!" What he WAS talking about was fine... I liked his tax plan... I defended it here several times against stupid liberals who didn't get it. But he has now lurched left on it... he says we have to "raise taxes on the rich" like some kind of fucked-in-the-head liberal kook who doesn't understand the way our tax system works. "The Rich" aren't making their money through Earned Income and pay very little Earned Income Tax. Raising the top marginal earned income tax rates (what he said) is stupid and only hurts small businesses.

You see this is where your ignorance shines bright, thinking that small business owners are the 1%. You must be one of those fucked-in-the-head liberal kooks since what he has proposed would reduce tax rates on Earned Income (Net Profit - personal income). He never stated we should raise the top marginal earned income tax rates. SMFH

No... In a totally different conversation about corporate taxation he has said that but he has not been specific about what "loopholes" he wants to close. A "loophole" in corporate taxation context, is basically a tax incentive that we have passed at one time or another in order to address some problem or issue facing many Americans. I can't sit here and defend them all, but every single one of them has a reason and purpose for existing and Congress held debates to argue why we should or should not have them. Personally, I am all for eliminating all the "loopholes" and lowering the tax rate to near zero for corporations, particularly if we can incentivize domesticity. You keep your money and jobs HERE and you can pay 5% corporate tax with no loopholes.

But Trump was NOT talking about corporate tax rates in the interview I raised questions with.

What interview is it you think he stated to raise the top marginal earned income tax rates in? You seem to be projecting based on some other phrase that you are mis-interpreting. In a town-hall interview he was asked if he believed in raising taxes on the wealthy, to which he said he does, and his ideals are to close loopholes to do so, such as the Carried Interest loophole.

The biggest winners under Donald Trump's tax plan

Again... IDIOT... We don't tax WEALTH in America! That is a Socialist-Marxist propaganda tool. We've NEVER taxed WEALTH in this country! We tax income... we tax capital gains... we tax property... we do not tax WEALTH! Now you and Trump can BUY IN to the class warfare rhetoric of the progressives if you want to... but you're STUPID!

And yes... he most certainly DID say, in an interview on Thursday with CNBC, that he's "not a big fan" of the proposals in his tax cut plan which provide tax relief for top wage earners and he plans to "tax the rich." So he has now abandoned Conservatism and is spouting the Socialist-Marxist class warfare propaganda.

I don't care if you don't believe me... do some fucking research! Small businesses pay the overwhelming majority of the "Top 1%" of taxes on Earned Income because that's how they report. That's who he (and progressives) are talking about increasing taxes on... that's who they consider "The Rich!"

Linking me to stuff about Trump's tax proposal or his town halls is pointless... I already said, I was a supporter of his tax plan. But he is NOW changing his tune on his OWN tax plan! He says "I'm not a big fan" ...of his OWN TAX PLAN!

In two days, following his coronation as GOP nominee, he has completely caved on two key conservative principles. He is now leaning toward a minimum wage increase (which will kill jobs) and increasing the top marginal earned income tax rates (which harms small business). He has taken to spewing the left-wing talking point about "taxing the rich" as if he doesn't understand we don't tax wealth in America. And here YOU are, continuing to wave your pom-poms, seemingly oblivious to what he is saying NOW... in total contradiction of what he has said on the campaign trail.

Yes... someone needs to be shaking their damn head but it's not YOU... you keep shaking your head and marbles keep falling out... you're losing them all!

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot. Don't create a strawman so that you can knock it down and try to look as though you know more than you actually do.

Trump stated he is for taxing the wealthy (that is with a Y) by closing some loopholes like Carried Interest, which in effect would increase their taxes.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.
So-called wealthy are actually small business owners? The data is dubious
Buffett Rule would only hit 1% of small business owners

That is, it's likely that only 1% of small business owners would be directly affected by the latest proposal to raise taxes on the rich, according to data from the U.S. Treasury Department.​

Small Business Owners and the Top 1% - Barbara Weltman

According to Forbes, to be within this elite income group, a person needs annual income of about $394,000 from personal services or investments. According to the IRS, you need income of about $389,000 (based on figures from 2011 tax returns). This group reported 19% of all the taxable income in the U.S. and paid 35% of all federal income taxes for individuals.

Small business owners
Almost all of small businesses in the U.S. are set up in such a way—as sole proprietorships, partnerships, limited liability companies, or S corporations—that owners pay personal income taxes on their share of business profits. How many small business owners fall within the top one-percenters? It’s difficult to tell. Here are some clues:

• From IRS statistics, of the more than 8 million owners who had Schedule K-1 income from partnerships (including LLCs that report as partnerships) and S corporations, they had income of $425,384,000,000. This works out to about $53,000 of income per owner, which is a far cry from the approximately $390,000 of income needed to fall within the top 1%. But these are averages, so some may well have income from businesses and other sources putting them in the top 1%.
• According to the Urban Brookings Tax Policy Center, of the income reported by the top 1%, 24% came from business income.
• Payscale reports that the median salary for small business owners is $77,180; this would be something limited to S corporation owner-employees and does not take into account owners’ share of profits.

Top 5%
Even if only a handful of small business owners fall within the top 1%, many probably find themselves in the top 5% of individuals.

The U.S. Census Bureau fixes the threshold for the 5% group at household income of $232,000. And it is within this group that many of the federal tax limitations, surtaxes, and other restrictions begin to apply.
​

You don't appear to know how to research then. The rest of your frothing is nothing more than soundbites and mis-interpretation which appears to be pretty common with you since you don't understand the difference between tax brackets and tax rates, changing wealthy into wealth, etc. SMFH

Again... stop shaking your head, your marbles are falling out.

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot.

Yes, you ARE saying that we tax wealth if you state we need to "tax the rich" by increasing the tax rates on top marginal wage earners. That's exactly what the phrase means and what it applies to. It is a complete abandonment of Conservative free market principles and capitulation to the left-wing class warfare propaganda.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.

If you are looking at the "Top 1%" of wealthy people in America then you are correct... Most small businesses are not among the Top 1% of wealthy people in America. But that's not who we tax with Earned Income tax rates... We don't tax wealth, we tax Earned Income. You are assuming.. like the Marxist idiots on the left... that someone who earns a high income is wealthy and that's not the case. The Top 1% of Earned Income Tax Payers.... are Small Businesses! They are NOT the wealthy... they may one day BE the wealthy... they're trying to become wealthy.... that's what Capitalism in a free market is ALL about!

Trump was SPECIFICALLY talking about his tax cut proposals on Earned Income Tax Payers. You are dishonestly trying to jump over to his proposals on other tax formulas which are unrelated to tax on Earned Income. Where in the living hell have people like you been the past 35-40 years we've been making these arguments? You act like this is all new or some radical idea that you've never heard... and it's boilerplate conservative free market economics.

Are there SOME super-wealthy people in the Top 1% who have Earned Income? Of course, and they don't mind paying whatever rate the government puts on it... it's insignificant to their overall earnings and wealth. What little amount of Earned Income they may have, you can tax that at 91% and it doesn't matter to them. But that is a relatively small number of people who are in the high end of the earned income bracket. The overwhelming majority of high earned income earners are small business entrepreneurs who file as individuals on their tax returns. Taxing THEM at 91% will essentially kill about 76% of our jobs because you will put these people out of business. We simply CAN'T do that in order to prop up some Marxist-Socialist MEME!

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

The whole class warfare thing comes up when Democrats want to hand out more money and say it's OK, we're just going to take the money from rich SOBs

 

[Fenton Lum]

NO they ARE NOT!

You see this is where your ignorance shines bright, thinking that small business owners are the 1%. You must be one of those fucked-in-the-head liberal kooks since what he has proposed would reduce tax rates on Earned Income (Net Profit - personal income). He never stated we should raise the top marginal earned income tax rates. SMFH

What interview is it you think he stated to raise the top marginal earned income tax rates in? You seem to be projecting based on some other phrase that you are mis-interpreting. In a town-hall interview he was asked if he believed in raising taxes on the wealthy, to which he said he does, and his ideals are to close loopholes to do so, such as the Carried Interest loophole.

The biggest winners under Donald Trump's tax plan

Again... IDIOT... We don't tax WEALTH in America! That is a Socialist-Marxist propaganda tool. We've NEVER taxed WEALTH in this country! We tax income... we tax capital gains... we tax property... we do not tax WEALTH! Now you and Trump can BUY IN to the class warfare rhetoric of the progressives if you want to... but you're STUPID!

And yes... he most certainly DID say, in an interview on Thursday with CNBC, that he's "not a big fan" of the proposals in his tax cut plan which provide tax relief for top wage earners and he plans to "tax the rich." So he has now abandoned Conservatism and is spouting the Socialist-Marxist class warfare propaganda.

I don't care if you don't believe me... do some fucking research! Small businesses pay the overwhelming majority of the "Top 1%" of taxes on Earned Income because that's how they report. That's who he (and progressives) are talking about increasing taxes on... that's who they consider "The Rich!"

Linking me to stuff about Trump's tax proposal or his town halls is pointless... I already said, I was a supporter of his tax plan. But he is NOW changing his tune on his OWN tax plan! He says "I'm not a big fan" ...of his OWN TAX PLAN!

In two days, following his coronation as GOP nominee, he has completely caved on two key conservative principles. He is now leaning toward a minimum wage increase (which will kill jobs) and increasing the top marginal earned income tax rates (which harms small business). He has taken to spewing the left-wing talking point about "taxing the rich" as if he doesn't understand we don't tax wealth in America. And here YOU are, continuing to wave your pom-poms, seemingly oblivious to what he is saying NOW... in total contradiction of what he has said on the campaign trail.

Yes... someone needs to be shaking their damn head but it's not YOU... you keep shaking your head and marbles keep falling out... you're losing them all!

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot. Don't create a strawman so that you can knock it down and try to look as though you know more than you actually do.

Trump stated he is for taxing the wealthy (that is with a Y) by closing some loopholes like Carried Interest, which in effect would increase their taxes.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.
So-called wealthy are actually small business owners? The data is dubious
Buffett Rule would only hit 1% of small business owners

That is, it's likely that only 1% of small business owners would be directly affected by the latest proposal to raise taxes on the rich, according to data from the U.S. Treasury Department.​

Small Business Owners and the Top 1% - Barbara Weltman

According to Forbes, to be within this elite income group, a person needs annual income of about $394,000 from personal services or investments. According to the IRS, you need income of about $389,000 (based on figures from 2011 tax returns). This group reported 19% of all the taxable income in the U.S. and paid 35% of all federal income taxes for individuals.

Small business owners
Almost all of small businesses in the U.S. are set up in such a way—as sole proprietorships, partnerships, limited liability companies, or S corporations—that owners pay personal income taxes on their share of business profits. How many small business owners fall within the top one-percenters? It’s difficult to tell. Here are some clues:

• From IRS statistics, of the more than 8 million owners who had Schedule K-1 income from partnerships (including LLCs that report as partnerships) and S corporations, they had income of $425,384,000,000. This works out to about $53,000 of income per owner, which is a far cry from the approximately $390,000 of income needed to fall within the top 1%. But these are averages, so some may well have income from businesses and other sources putting them in the top 1%.
• According to the Urban Brookings Tax Policy Center, of the income reported by the top 1%, 24% came from business income.
• Payscale reports that the median salary for small business owners is $77,180; this would be something limited to S corporation owner-employees and does not take into account owners’ share of profits.

Top 5%
Even if only a handful of small business owners fall within the top 1%, many probably find themselves in the top 5% of individuals.

The U.S. Census Bureau fixes the threshold for the 5% group at household income of $232,000. And it is within this group that many of the federal tax limitations, surtaxes, and other restrictions begin to apply.
​

You don't appear to know how to research then. The rest of your frothing is nothing more than soundbites and mis-interpretation which appears to be pretty common with you since you don't understand the difference between tax brackets and tax rates, changing wealthy into wealth, etc. SMFH

Again... stop shaking your head, your marbles are falling out.

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot.

Yes, you ARE saying that we tax wealth if you state we need to "tax the rich" by increasing the tax rates on top marginal wage earners. That's exactly what the phrase means and what it applies to. It is a complete abandonment of Conservative free market principles and capitulation to the left-wing class warfare propaganda.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.

If you are looking at the "Top 1%" of wealthy people in America then you are correct... Most small businesses are not among the Top 1% of wealthy people in America. But that's not who we tax with Earned Income tax rates... We don't tax wealth, we tax Earned Income. You are assuming.. like the Marxist idiots on the left... that someone who earns a high income is wealthy and that's not the case. The Top 1% of Earned Income Tax Payers.... are Small Businesses! They are NOT the wealthy... they may one day BE the wealthy... they're trying to become wealthy.... that's what Capitalism in a free market is ALL about!

Trump was SPECIFICALLY talking about his tax cut proposals on Earned Income Tax Payers. You are dishonestly trying to jump over to his proposals on other tax formulas which are unrelated to tax on Earned Income. Where in the living hell have people like you been the past 35-40 years we've been making these arguments? You act like this is all new or some radical idea that you've never heard... and it's boilerplate conservative free market economics.

Are there SOME super-wealthy people in the Top 1% who have Earned Income? Of course, and they don't mind paying whatever rate the government puts on it... it's insignificant to their overall earnings and wealth. What little amount of Earned Income they may have, you can tax that at 91% and it doesn't matter to them. But that is a relatively small number of people who are in the high end of the earned income bracket. The overwhelming majority of high earned income earners are small business entrepreneurs who file as individuals on their tax returns. Taxing THEM at 91% will essentially kill about 76% of our jobs because you will put these people out of business. We simply CAN'T do that in order to prop up some Marxist-Socialist MEME!

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

The whole class warfare thing comes up when Democrats want to hand out more money and say it's OK, we're just going to take the money from rich SOBs

Right. Damn "liberals" and "democrats". Got it.

 

[kaz]

You do realize the bailouts had nothing to do with the bankruptcy proceedings, right? Two different laws, two different procedures. But hey feel free to post a link where the bailout law suspended bankruptcy law. No hurry, I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a long, long time.

Here's another idea: how about you post a link discussing the Obama Admin being taken to court over what you claim is "lawless". It's been done before, after all.

So that's your standard? You apply the same thing to W? He's only guilty of what has been proven in a court of law? So you defend him when leftists make accusations since he's been convicted of nothing? Funny, I don't see you doing that ...

I've personally never called for his impeachment or called his policies "lawless" and in some cases I actually have told others who were calling for impeachment of him wrong.

As far as this particular subjecting that were deflecting from is concerned, from what I've read about it, there isn't anything that legally obligated this current admin to act any way other than they did in disbursing the bailout money.

My point was regarding your inane argument that no one can criticize people you like for anything they haven't been convicted in a court of law as having committed. It's inane and obviously you don't follow that yourself

What is this "no one can criticize people you like for anything they haven't been convicted in a court of law" crap? He used the term "lawless" and I've challenged that assertion. Do you have anything else to add to this besides giving me crap over my posting history?

Exactly, your standard for him was for Obama to be lawless it had to be established in court. A standard you apply to your self and other leftists never, you make all the accusations you want

 

[kaz]

Again... IDIOT... We don't tax WEALTH in America! That is a Socialist-Marxist propaganda tool. We've NEVER taxed WEALTH in this country! We tax income... we tax capital gains... we tax property... we do not tax WEALTH! Now you and Trump can BUY IN to the class warfare rhetoric of the progressives if you want to... but you're STUPID!

And yes... he most certainly DID say, in an interview on Thursday with CNBC, that he's "not a big fan" of the proposals in his tax cut plan which provide tax relief for top wage earners and he plans to "tax the rich." So he has now abandoned Conservatism and is spouting the Socialist-Marxist class warfare propaganda.

I don't care if you don't believe me... do some fucking research! Small businesses pay the overwhelming majority of the "Top 1%" of taxes on Earned Income because that's how they report. That's who he (and progressives) are talking about increasing taxes on... that's who they consider "The Rich!"

Linking me to stuff about Trump's tax proposal or his town halls is pointless... I already said, I was a supporter of his tax plan. But he is NOW changing his tune on his OWN tax plan! He says "I'm not a big fan" ...of his OWN TAX PLAN!

In two days, following his coronation as GOP nominee, he has completely caved on two key conservative principles. He is now leaning toward a minimum wage increase (which will kill jobs) and increasing the top marginal earned income tax rates (which harms small business). He has taken to spewing the left-wing talking point about "taxing the rich" as if he doesn't understand we don't tax wealth in America. And here YOU are, continuing to wave your pom-poms, seemingly oblivious to what he is saying NOW... in total contradiction of what he has said on the campaign trail.

Yes... someone needs to be shaking their damn head but it's not YOU... you keep shaking your head and marbles keep falling out... you're losing them all!

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot. Don't create a strawman so that you can knock it down and try to look as though you know more than you actually do.

Trump stated he is for taxing the wealthy (that is with a Y) by closing some loopholes like Carried Interest, which in effect would increase their taxes.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.
So-called wealthy are actually small business owners? The data is dubious
Buffett Rule would only hit 1% of small business owners

That is, it's likely that only 1% of small business owners would be directly affected by the latest proposal to raise taxes on the rich, according to data from the U.S. Treasury Department.​

Small Business Owners and the Top 1% - Barbara Weltman

According to Forbes, to be within this elite income group, a person needs annual income of about $394,000 from personal services or investments. According to the IRS, you need income of about $389,000 (based on figures from 2011 tax returns). This group reported 19% of all the taxable income in the U.S. and paid 35% of all federal income taxes for individuals.

Small business owners
Almost all of small businesses in the U.S. are set up in such a way—as sole proprietorships, partnerships, limited liability companies, or S corporations—that owners pay personal income taxes on their share of business profits. How many small business owners fall within the top one-percenters? It’s difficult to tell. Here are some clues:

• From IRS statistics, of the more than 8 million owners who had Schedule K-1 income from partnerships (including LLCs that report as partnerships) and S corporations, they had income of $425,384,000,000. This works out to about $53,000 of income per owner, which is a far cry from the approximately $390,000 of income needed to fall within the top 1%. But these are averages, so some may well have income from businesses and other sources putting them in the top 1%.
• According to the Urban Brookings Tax Policy Center, of the income reported by the top 1%, 24% came from business income.
• Payscale reports that the median salary for small business owners is $77,180; this would be something limited to S corporation owner-employees and does not take into account owners’ share of profits.

Top 5%
Even if only a handful of small business owners fall within the top 1%, many probably find themselves in the top 5% of individuals.

The U.S. Census Bureau fixes the threshold for the 5% group at household income of $232,000. And it is within this group that many of the federal tax limitations, surtaxes, and other restrictions begin to apply.
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You don't appear to know how to research then. The rest of your frothing is nothing more than soundbites and mis-interpretation which appears to be pretty common with you since you don't understand the difference between tax brackets and tax rates, changing wealthy into wealth, etc. SMFH

Again... stop shaking your head, your marbles are falling out.

Are you really this fucking illiterate? Nobody said anything about taxing wealth you fucking idiot.

Yes, you ARE saying that we tax wealth if you state we need to "tax the rich" by increasing the tax rates on top marginal wage earners. That's exactly what the phrase means and what it applies to. It is a complete abandonment of Conservative free market principles and capitulation to the left-wing class warfare propaganda.

I have done the research, small business owners are not the majority of the 1%, in fact less than 1% of small business owners are in the 1%.

If you are looking at the "Top 1%" of wealthy people in America then you are correct... Most small businesses are not among the Top 1% of wealthy people in America. But that's not who we tax with Earned Income tax rates... We don't tax wealth, we tax Earned Income. You are assuming.. like the Marxist idiots on the left... that someone who earns a high income is wealthy and that's not the case. The Top 1% of Earned Income Tax Payers.... are Small Businesses! They are NOT the wealthy... they may one day BE the wealthy... they're trying to become wealthy.... that's what Capitalism in a free market is ALL about!

Trump was SPECIFICALLY talking about his tax cut proposals on Earned Income Tax Payers. You are dishonestly trying to jump over to his proposals on other tax formulas which are unrelated to tax on Earned Income. Where in the living hell have people like you been the past 35-40 years we've been making these arguments? You act like this is all new or some radical idea that you've never heard... and it's boilerplate conservative free market economics.

Are there SOME super-wealthy people in the Top 1% who have Earned Income? Of course, and they don't mind paying whatever rate the government puts on it... it's insignificant to their overall earnings and wealth. What little amount of Earned Income they may have, you can tax that at 91% and it doesn't matter to them. But that is a relatively small number of people who are in the high end of the earned income bracket. The overwhelming majority of high earned income earners are small business entrepreneurs who file as individuals on their tax returns. Taxing THEM at 91% will essentially kill about 76% of our jobs because you will put these people out of business. We simply CAN'T do that in order to prop up some Marxist-Socialist MEME!

Funny thing about that whole class warfare business. That only comes up when someone questions the system. You can swear at me now.

The whole class warfare thing comes up when Democrats want to hand out more money and say it's OK, we're just going to take the money from rich SOBs

Right. Damn "liberals" and "democrats". Got it.

Don't know what that means. Are you denying Democrats want to increase giving money to lower classes and take money from the upper classes? Seriously?