Corporatism, once again...

[konradv]

Well, as implemented by the statists and neo-cons, it's pretty close. It's fundamentally opposed to equal rights and individual liberty, preferring government granted privilege and group rights.

But I'm not really interested in making that argument here. Mostly I just wanted to raise awareness of the concept and get everyone past the naive perception that it refers to corporations colluding with government. That might be a by-product of corporatism, it might not, but it's really secondary. Corporatism is a mode of organizing society, usually via government.

I object to word being thrown out without explanation, as if it said it all. Some corporatism is good, some bad. The important thing is to explain the why of the bad aspects. Too often it seems to be an easy catch-all.

Corporatism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

cor·po·rat·ism noun \ˈkȯr-p(ə-)rə-ˌti-zəm\

Definition of CORPORATISM

: the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction.

There is nothing good about this in any way shape or form. Government in this country was designed to be restrained to the basic function of upholding individual rights. Certainly not acting as economic central planners or social planners.

That's what corporatism is all about. It's about societal engineering by group special interest and it always infringes on the individuals rights.

It can easily make the user look foolish when it's pointed out that without corporatism of some sort, we'd have very little in the way of civilization at all

Can you give an example of positive corporatism? When you do so, make sure the example isn't a special interest to a group that infringes on the rights of others.

You've just chosen your favorite definition. It hardly covers all forms. Also, our question is impossible to answer. All forms of corporatism involve compromises that can be construed as infringing on the desires of another. The problem is, if you throw out any such compromises as infringements of rights, it's likely we'd have very little in the way of civilization.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

OK, so you can not provide an example, while still bolstering the assertion that it is both good and bad, and that it varies in definition. It does not. It has complexity, it does not deter from it's meaning in anyway.

 

[dblack]

You've just chosen your favorite definition. It hardly covers all forms. Also, our question is impossible to answer. All forms of corporatism involve compromises that can be construed as infringing on the desires of another. The problem is, if you throw out any such compromises as infringements of rights, it's likely we'd have very little in the way of civilization.

It's not at all clear to me what you're getting at. You seem to equating corporatism with 'civilization' or 'society' - but it has a more specific meaning than that. It's a distinct mode of distributing power in society. Civilizations and societies have been formed around other organizing themes - ours in particular.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Using precise terms can prevent future statists from successfully blaming the inevitable failure of their programs on the remnants of the free market that are still allowed to exist. We must not allow the disastrous results of corporatism to be ascribed incorrectly to free market capitalism or used as a justification for more government expansion. Most importantly, we must learn what freedom really is and educate others on how infringements on our economic liberties caused our economic woes in the first place. Government is the problem; it cannot be the solution.

-Ron Paul

From Here

 

[AVG-JOE]

I wish there was another word for it. It's actually a form of fascism. But fascism is even more inflammatory and misunderstood than 'corporatism'. Maybe we should mint a replacement term here on this very site.

I really get why it's confusing. People hear the word and assume they know what it means - because "Hey, I know about corporations. What else is there to know?" But I'd really expect a little more curiosity and research here. I mean it is, nominally, a political discussion board. Is it so hard to look up the terms we use?

The problem is the stacks and reams of bullshit lawyer-speak we affectionately call the US Federal Tax Code.

Congress should have NEVER been given the power to customize the federal tax obligations of industries and individual companies.

Wooing industry is the job of the states.





Fair and simple taxes will make most of the corruption go away. Imagine how different things might be if all the dollars spent on lobbying had been spent on R&D.

 

[dblack]

I wish there was another word for it. It's actually a form of fascism. But fascism is even more inflammatory and misunderstood than 'corporatism'. Maybe we should mint a replacement term here on this very site.

I really get why it's confusing. People hear the word and assume they know what it means - because "Hey, I know about corporations. What else is there to know?" But I'd really expect a little more curiosity and research here. I mean it is, nominally, a political discussion board. Is it so hard to look up the terms we use?

The problem is the stacks and reams of bullshit lawyer-speak we affectionately call the US Federal Tax Code.

Congress should have NEVER been given the power to customize the federal tax obligations of industries and individual companies.

Wooing industry is the job of the states.





Fair and simple taxes will make most of the corruption go away. Imagine how different things might be if all the dollars spent on lobbying had been spent on R&D.

Preach it, brother! Couldn't agree more.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Where's my "I know exactly what it means and vehemently oppose it" option. I suppose the slimeball option would work, but it's not just Obama. This has been going on for decades in the US now.

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Where's my "I know exactly what it means and vehemently oppose it" option. I suppose the slimeball option would work, but it's not just Obama. This has been going on for decades in the US now.

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

 

[dblack]

Where's my "I know exactly what it means and vehemently oppose it" option. I suppose the slimeball option would work, but it's not just Obama. This has been going on for decades in the US now.

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

Hamilton sort of personifies it for me. Not sure that's entirely fair, and I can't claim the thorough grasp of history to know for sure. But so much of this seems to have his fingerprints on it.

 

[ScienceRocks]

IMO, too many libertarians seem to use it as an epithet, giving the impression that it's some sort of ultimate evil.

Well, as implemented by the statists and neo-cons, it's pretty close. It's fundamentally opposed to equal rights and individual liberty, preferring government granted privilege and group rights.

But I'm not really interested in making that argument here. Mostly I just wanted to raise awareness of the concept and get everyone past the naive perception that it refers to corporations colluding with government. That might be a by-product of corporatism, it might not, but it's really secondary. Corporatism is a mode of organizing society, usually via government.

I object to word being thrown out without explanation, as if it said it all. Some corporatism is good, some bad. The important thing is to explain the why of the bad aspects. Too often it seems to be an easy catch-all. It can easily make the user look foolish when it's pointed out that without corporatism of some sort, we'd have very little in the way of civilization at all.

Dblack hates IBM, Apple, google, Chevy, ford, Honda, Toyota, Wal-Mart, K-mart, as his world view is in the 18th century. Big corporations do good things for society. Do we need to set boundaries for them? YES. They shouldn't have the right to slave labor or mistreatment of their workers.

Still they make the modern world work.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Where's my "I know exactly what it means and vehemently oppose it" option. I suppose the slimeball option would work, but it's not just Obama. This has been going on for decades in the US now.

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

So you're against the rail-road? Heck, I'd bet you're against any and all progress.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

So you're against the rail-road? Heck, I'd bet you're against any and all progress.

I'd bet you absolutely and completely do not understand the topic, economics or the history of the railroads in the US.

 

[dblack]

Matthew, please.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Where's my "I know exactly what it means and vehemently oppose it" option. I suppose the slimeball option would work, but it's not just Obama. This has been going on for decades in the US now.

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

True that! The Rail Roads are a great example of 'public risk / private reward'. They even have their own, separate retirement system outside of Social Security.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Some would say that it dates back to the whole "Military Industrial Complex" thingy that Eisenhower warned us about.

Some would say it goes back to the formation of railroads and even the chartering of corporations through government.

So you're against the rail-road? Heck, I'd bet you're against any and all progress.

It's not a question of 'for' or 'against'... it's a question of 'fair' progress that looks farther down the time line than next quarters profit report.

Corporations aren't inherently evil, it makes good business sense to organize larger enterprises around a contract rather than a person.

Private profit from public risk is the enemy, not profit itself.

 

[arKangel]

There should be an "other".
Corporations, as I understand them, operate by a rule of law.

Fascism, who's grandaddy is marxism, is quite obviously an evil and inhumane philosophy/religion.

Fascism however it mimics corporatism, is not quite the same thing.
Corporatism is of course easily enough hijacked by fascists, communists, socialists, and whatever else the pinko's call themselves...

Yet having a standard of integrity, measurement, process, and honesty is not "evil", quite the opposite actually.

ISO

 

[dblack]

There should be an "other".
Corporations, as I understand them, operate by a rule of law.

Fascism, who's grandaddy is marxism, is quite obviously an evil and inhumane philosophy/religion.

Fascism however it mimics corporatism, is not quite the same thing.
Corporatism is of course easily enough hijacked by fascists, communists, socialists, and whatever else the pinko's call themselves...

Yet having a standard of integrity, measurement, process, and honesty is not "evil", quite the opposite actually.

ISO

???

 

[arKangel]

There should be an "other".
Corporations, as I understand them, operate by a rule of law.

Fascism, who's grandaddy is marxism, is quite obviously an evil and inhumane philosophy/religion.

Fascism however it mimics corporatism, is not quite the same thing.
Corporatism is of course easily enough hijacked by fascists, communists, socialists, and whatever else the pinko's call themselves...

Yet having a standard of integrity, measurement, process, and honesty is not "evil", quite the opposite actually.

ISO

???

You have a problem with standards of integrity, measurement, process, and integrity?

 

[dblack]

There should be an "other".
Corporations, as I understand them, operate by a rule of law.

Fascism, who's grandaddy is marxism, is quite obviously an evil and inhumane philosophy/religion.

Fascism however it mimics corporatism, is not quite the same thing.
Corporatism is of course easily enough hijacked by fascists, communists, socialists, and whatever else the pinko's call themselves...

Yet having a standard of integrity, measurement, process, and honesty is not "evil", quite the opposite actually.

ISO

???

You have a problem with standards of integrity, measurement, process, and integrity?

I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. Or what it has to do with the topic.

 

[arKangel]

???

You have a problem with standards of integrity, measurement, process, and integrity?

I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. Or what it has to do with the topic.

The topic is simply an attack on integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.

Do you have a problem with that?