Corporatism, once again...

[dblack]

You have a problem with standards of integrity, measurement, process, and integrity?

I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. Or what it has to do with the topic.

The topic is simply an attack on integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.

Do you have a problem with that?

No, the topic is corporatism, and the sad fact that most people don't even know what it means. Are you intending to provide an example?

 

[arKangel]

I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. Or what it has to do with the topic.

The topic is simply an attack on integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.

Do you have a problem with that?

No, the topic is corporatism, and the sad fact that most people don't even know what it means. Are you intending to provide an example?

I have.
Do you have a problem with integrity, measurement, process, and honesty?

 

[dblack]

The topic is simply an attack on integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.

Do you have a problem with that?

No, the topic is corporatism, and the sad fact that most people don't even know what it means. Are you intending to provide an example?

I have.
Do you have a problem with integrity, measurement, process, and honesty?

LOL ... no, none at all. Thank you for playing.

 

[Billo_Really]

About the simplest way I could put it, corporatism is the greatest threat to peace on earth.

 

[arKangel]

No, the topic is corporatism, and the sad fact that most people don't even know what it means. Are you intending to provide an example?

I have.
Do you have a problem with integrity, measurement, process, and honesty?

LOL ... no, none at all. Thank you for playing.

Very good then?

I don't see this as playing, more so, a sharing of thought.

Glad to know that you appear to understand the attempt at redefining language the pollster is attempting.

I hope you dig deep into the information I have provided, it is quite valuable.

Corporatism is defined by integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.
Nothing more, nothing less. Above all, honesty is the key to success.

Only the satanic would argue otherwise.

 

[Billo_Really]

Very good then?

I don't see this as playing, more so, a sharing of thought.

Glad to know that you appear to understand the attempt at redefining language the pollster is attempting.

I hope you dig deep into the information I have provided, it is quite valuable.

Corporatism is defined by integrity, measurement, process, and honesty.
Nothing more, nothing less. Above all, honesty is the key to success.

Only the satanic would argue otherwise.

Corporatism is the reason we're fighting wars the majority of Americans are against.

Corporatism is the reason for the Citizens United verdict from SCOTUS.

Corporatism is the reason American citizens have been stripped of their representation in government.

Corporatism is the reason the Constitution is no longer the supreme law of the land.

And corporatism will be the reason for the end of all life on planet earth.

 

[dblack]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I wish there was another word for it. It's actually a form of fascism. But fascism is even more inflammatory and misunderstood than 'corporatism'. Maybe we should mint a replacement term here on this very site.

I really get why it's confusing. People hear the word and assume they know what it means - because "Hey, I know about corporations. What else is there to know?" But I'd really expect a little more curiosity and research here. I mean it is, nominally, a political discussion board. Is it so hard to look up the terms we use?

What do you think it means?

 

[arKangel]

.

 

[MikeK]

Dblack hates IBM, Apple, google, Chevy, ford, Honda, Toyota, Wal-Mart, K-mart, as his world view is in the 18th century. Big corporations do good things for society. Do we need to set boundaries for them? YES. They shouldn't have the right to slave labor or mistreatment of their workers.

Still they make the modern world work.

Big (for-profit) corporations can do good things for society so long as they remain competitive and their practices and policies are subject to regulation.

 

[Darkwind]

I wish there was another word for it. It's actually a form of fascism. But fascism is even more inflammatory and misunderstood than 'corporatism'. Maybe we should mint a replacement term here on this very site.

I really get why it's confusing. People hear the word and assume they know what it means - because "Hey, I know about corporations. What else is there to know?" But I'd really expect a little more curiosity and research here. I mean it is, nominally, a political discussion board. Is it so hard to look up the terms we use?

It sounds like it could have various meanings. Which one do you refer to?

Google corporatism. Read any of the top five hits. They all discuss approximately the same thing.

Here is a better idea.

Why don't you tell us what YOU think it means and we'll go from there. Unless you cannot formulate what you believe and don't believe without someone else articulating it for you?

 

[snowdenisahero]

I wish there was another word for it. It's actually a form of fascism. But fascism is even more inflammatory and misunderstood than 'corporatism'. Maybe we should mint a replacement term here on this very site.

I really get why it's confusing. People hear the word and assume they know what it means - because "Hey, I know about corporations. What else is there to know?" But I'd really expect a little more curiosity and research here. I mean it is, nominally, a political discussion board. Is it so hard to look up the terms we use?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/98-808.pdf

I'll probably be on some ridiculous Government watch list for creating this thread, but who gives a crap by now? We're cemented in this mess together, so stop looking at the red and the blue for answers, as they're not our savoir, nor will they ever be. Just think about the fact there are all these "watch lists" in America now. The very thought should make you sick to your stomach.

Alexander should be arrested for perjury, tried for treason against the American people, and sent to prison for the rest of his lying pathetic life. As well as anyone in the NSA who knew what was going on and anyone in Government who went along with it. Skip to 6:40 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/iBDLU6I0oec]Number of Plots Thwarted by NSA Spying Suddenly Changed - YouTube[/ame]

The American government has become an authoritarian surveillance state, and some even call it fascist. Fascism or Corporatism is the merger or Government and corporate power in an authoritarian state, so that's pretty accurate if you look at it from that angle. China's market's becoming a more free competitive open market than America's. Oh, and our country is utterly bankrupt. I know you see prices of homes rising after the crash in 07. Reason is, the banks are holding back the massive foreclosure/shortsale inventory, again are creating a false market value again. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/C48fqHdMaVc]Peter Schiff on CNN: China More Capitalist Than America - YouTube[/ame]

No country in history has ever incarcerated more of it's own citizens than the US. From a movie, but all that was brought to our attention in this movie clip are all indisputable facts. Art imitates life and always will. Oh, and there's nothing "liberal" about Obama. Socialism Obama care garbage is not "liberal" it's extreme right because it's Large big Government controlled power. Government just gets bigger and bigger as years go by no matter who or what party gets elected. We're not and have not been a Capitalist or Democratic Republic country for a long time now. We're a mixed economy, capitalism is dead, and so is any inkling of a true checks and balances Representative democracy. We fought a war over taxation without representation. Well, there's no one representing the people any longer, you just get tricked into thinking you're being represented becasue you don't even know what you want or what should be. All you know is what you're told, taught, fed and shown. Do you not see that by now? We're all supposed to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. If we stopped thinking about parties that mean NOTHING and ignored the partisan divisive garbage they feed us to keep us arguing with each other and distracted, we would see what's going on around us. That's the balance of freedom and small unintrusive government: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/VMqcLUqYqrs]Why America is NOT the greatest country in the world, anymore. - YouTube[/ame]

The NDAA, DHS, National ID cards, arrest and detain American citizens without charge or due process, the IRS stealing from us for a UNION, Drones killing as they are commanded (even on American soil) all the Patriot (horrible name for such draconian laws, but that's pure jingoist propaganda) Acts, the overreaching power of the government, the fact that the judicial, legislative and executive branches have effectively become one, creating a dictatorship with no opposition on either side. Case in point: FISA is a joke and has never denied any data mining/surveillance on Americans. This is paramount to the Government putting cameras in your home with a microphone, but telling you they will NEVER look at it; unless they suspect you of something. Remmeber, just becasue the Government or any entity has the technological capabilities to do something doesn't mean they should, or even have the right to do so.

The lies, secrets all in the name of National Security and propaganda used, is all straight out of the book of Goebells. Also, what "files" did snowden give China and Russia? Answer: None yet..... What the American Government has become makes the east german stasi look like disney world. Germany slams US for ?Stasi methods? ahead of Obama visit ? RT News

Snowden did expose the IP addresses of Chinese computers hacked by the NSA which showed that the US Government was hacking into Chinese SCHOOLS a place of knowledge. Good for him. Didn't hurt or harm a soul. All the while the US Government was lambasting China prior to this for their supposed spying on Americans. Get with the program.

Straw man terrorist arguments hold no water. Why didn't PRISM catch the underwear terrorist, or the Boston Bombers? Why did the two Agents who questioned, and then kill the Boston Bombers "friend" (cause they said he came at them with a knife) die shortly after in a freak training accident? Why did Seal Team 6 who supposedly killed Osama, die shortly after, in a helicopter they were never supposed to be in? Too many deaths, and too many coincidences. No one can answer why.

Why is the American Government saying al qaeda is the enemy, yet is arming them in Syria, and fighting absurd proxy wars with Russia? Oh that's right, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Even tho the supposed al qaeda "hates us for our freedoms". If they hate us so much for our freedoms, then why is it the American Government that's actually destroying the Bill of Rights, and taking our freedoms away? It would seem as tho it's the American Government's the one who hates us for our freedoms. These same "rebels" in Syria were called insurgeants/terrorists in Iraq when the American Government was overthrowing Sadam. Now they're conveniently "rebels" and again, they're supporting al qaeda. This is pure insanity, yet I don't see this being discussed anywhere in the MSM. I think Bill mar made a comment about it, but who pays attention to him? This is the same Bill Mar who once said "call me crazy, I don't want Google reading my emails" Yet now is a champion of the authoritarian surveillance military industrial congressional complex of the NSA.

Freedom of speech exists in America up until it threatens the very fiber of the authoritarian stranglehold the American Government is trying to hold onto, which is why there are so many secrets, and whistle blowers are sentenced to life in prison; 8 since Obama took office. Daniel Ellsberg would be in prison right now for leaking the Pentagon papers if PRISM/NSA existed back when he blew the whistle.

Ellsberg is only free because it was ruled that illegal wire tapping was conducted on him. Well folks, no more illegal anything by the Government any longer if "National Security" is the excuse given. They make and break the laws if it gets in their way. Anyone who opposes them is labeled unpatriotic or a traitor, etc. I heard that sycophant in congress King called to have Greenwald arrested. That effectively annihilates the 1st and 4th amendment by default. This is all done so people are afraid to speak out against anything the Government is doing that is wrong or goes against the very liberties they're sworn to protect. Our Government is sworn in on the Bible to defend the Constitution! If they don't, they're the real traitors, enemy of freedom, and we the people.

My God, can you imagine the elections that can, and will be rigged with the omniscient and omnipotent power the Government has granted itself? They will know exactly what we're thinking, who we're talking to, how often, how we're thinking of voting, and then be able to manipulate, and know exactly what to do to sway our votes one way or the other with no privacy left. Talk about "programming" If this info is shared with companies selling us various products, we'll be buying things we never wanted but now feel compelled to, as if we couldn't live without these things in our lives. Forget the news. The MSM is bad enuf as it is now. With no privacy, it will become even more of propaganda mechanism. The limits to what the Government will be able to do with this meta data are only limited by their imagination and morals, and we see they have no morals, so they're not limited at all. What they're capable of with this illegal insight into our everyday lives is chilling to the bone. I don't trust them. Do you? What reason have they given any of us to trust them with such power? None....[ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/rsL6mKxtOlQ]George Carlin The Best 3 Minutes of His Career "The American Dream" - YouTube[/ame]

How come any time the America dollar is threatened, we see a new war being fought? Libya anyone? Petrodollar warfare. This Empire must fall, and I hope to God it does soon. When I say "fall", I mean we must at the local level, begin to vote people in who are not Republican or Democrat. It all starts at the local level; not the state level. So much attention $$$$$$$$ is placed on the Presidential election because that's what the Government wants you to pay attention to. It's a pointless vote, as it stands right now. It's the local state elections that are the most important. They're the ones that will change this country back to what our founding fathers tried to build the framework around. They weren't perfect by a longshot, but at least they gave us a blueprint for a semblance of freedom.

There's a lot here to digest. There's so much more, but why waste my time. You all want to live in a V for vendetta Orwellian world? That's exactly where we're headed, and fast!

I'll leave with two more videos, both from the last two great presidents we've had who warned us of the exact dangers we're ALL (worldwide) facing today.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/xhZk8ronces]President John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech version 2 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/8y06NSBBRtY]Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex. - YouTube[/ame]

He's not our enemy. This kid gave up his life so we could know the truth: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

You should have expected us

 

[AVG-JOE]

IMO, too many libertarians seem to use it as an epithet, giving the impression that it's some sort of ultimate evil.

Well, as implemented by the statists and neo-cons, it's pretty close. It's fundamentally opposed to equal rights and individual liberty, preferring government granted privilege and group rights.

But I'm not really interested in making that argument here. Mostly I just wanted to raise awareness of the concept and get everyone past the naive perception that it refers to corporations colluding with government. That might be a by-product of corporatism, it might not, but it's really secondary. Corporatism is a mode of organizing society, usually via government.

I object to word being thrown out without explanation, as if it said it all. Some corporatism is good, some bad. The important thing is to explain the why of the bad aspects. Too often it seems to be an easy catch-all. It can easily make the user look foolish when it's pointed out that without corporatism of some sort, we'd have very little in the way of civilization at all.

​

The problem remains the corruption, not the commerce. If taxes were fair and simple, corporate operators might just spend more resources on the latter.

 

[dblack]

I'll probably be on some ridiculous Government watch list for creating this thread, but who gives a crap by now? We're cemented in this mess together, so stop looking at the red and the blue for answers, as they're not our savoir, nor will they ever be. Just think about the fact there are all these "watch lists" in America now. The very thought should make you sick to your stomach. ...

Did you mean to post this in a different thread?

 

[dblack]

It sounds like it could have various meanings. Which one do you refer to?

Google corporatism. Read any of the top five hits. They all discuss approximately the same thing.

Here is a better idea.

Why don't you tell us what YOU think it means and we'll go from there. Unless you cannot formulate what you believe and don't believe without someone else articulating it for you?

What do you think it means?

I'm content to go with common sources for the definition of the word. I won't insult your intelligence, or placate your lack of initiative, by copying and pasting what is easily accessible.

If it isn't already obvious, the poll is facetious. I'm poking fun at the lazy ignorance and gross misunderstanding of something that I actually consider an insidious threat to our way of life. I've tried, in other threads, to explain why I think corporatism is dangerous, but I'm always drowned out by idiots (just like in this thread) who simply don't know what it means, won't look it up, and won't listen if I try to correct them.

So, no, I won't play that game again. Some people here do seem to understand the term and, even if I might disagree with their assessment of it's harmful nature, I appreciate their attention. I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion of the topic with those folks without being drowned out by senseless drivel about the value of corporations.

 

[editec]

I think that CORPORATISM is the inevitable political outcome of rapidly advancing technological society that has CAPITALISM as its economy system and nominally, representational forms of governments.

After all, the economic advantages of increased efficiencies of advancing mostly go to the OWNERSHIP class, not the working classes.

That is why we are now seeing not only such a huge economic divide between the SUPER ELITE and the rest of us and also why we see that their growing power is now superceding even national powers.

Such economic advantage inevitably leads to control over governments (by debt, mostly).

WE should NOT be surprised this is happening.

The merchant classes took down the MONARCHIAL system in much the same way from 1776 though about 1917.

While the Monarchial empires fought each other for world control, it was their BANKERS who ultimately won control over their world.

Well now, the system of NATION STATES as the focus of all power is beginning to fall, too.

Again we see the same mechanism working to bring down nations....they become so INDEBTED that they no longer are calling the shots.

Perhaps in the longer run this is all for the best, but the turbulance from the changing power structure is going to be damned hard on most of us.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I think that CORPORATISM is the inevitable political outcome of rapidly advancing technological society that has CAPITALISM as its economy system and nominally, representational forms of governments.

It has nothing to do with capitalism, it does have everything to do with government being involved in commerce by picking winners and losers and solidifying into law, the special interests of favored groups among competitive markets.

After all, the economic advantages of increased efficiencies of advancing mostly go to the OWNERSHIP class, not the working classes.

It has nothing to do with class. Are you saying that private ownership is the problem now? It seems you're addressing a symptom as the disease here.

That is why we are now seeing not only such a huge economic divide between the SUPER ELITE and the rest of us and also why we see that their growing power is now superceding even national powers.

What we're seeing is the government failing to protect individual rights and instead favoring special interests. If government were not involved in commerce, at all, this would be a nonissue. People would be forced to compete and their standings would be left to their merits rather than the force of law killing competition.

Such economic advantage inevitably leads to control over governments (by debt, mostly).

Only if by debt you mean collusion.

WE should NOT be surprised this is happening.

True. Once you realize that government is a failure in society and the root cause of this disease.

 

[snowdenisahero]

I'll probably be on some ridiculous Government watch list for creating this thread, but who gives a crap by now? We're cemented in this mess together, so stop looking at the red and the blue for answers, as they're not our savoir, nor will they ever be. Just think about the fact there are all these "watch lists" in America now. The very thought should make you sick to your stomach. ...

Did you mean to post this in a different thread?

I posted my entire post with the portion of corporatism/fascism in bold from a thread I posted here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rested-and-tried-for-perjury-and-treason.html

What shocks me is the number of people who've read what everyone already knows is right, yet not one comment. 97 people viewed the thread and poll, yet I see only one person voted so far, and not a single one had anything to add to the discussion. What's the most important political discussion and issue of our lifetime? Answer: The NSA's/Government's self granted power power, and what they think they can do with it.

 

[dblack]

I'll probably be on some ridiculous Government watch list for creating this thread, but who gives a crap by now? We're cemented in this mess together, so stop looking at the red and the blue for answers, as they're not our savoir, nor will they ever be. Just think about the fact there are all these "watch lists" in America now. The very thought should make you sick to your stomach. ...

Did you mean to post this in a different thread?

I posted my entire post with the portion of corporatism/fascism in bold from a thread I posted here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rested-and-tried-for-perjury-and-treason.html

What shocks me is the number of people who've read what everyone already knows is right, yet not one comment. At least I see one person voted so far.

You mean this?

Corporatism is the merger or Government and corporate power in an authoritarian state

No. It isn't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Google corporatism. Read any of the top five hits. They all discuss approximately the same thing.

Here is a better idea.

Why don't you tell us what YOU think it means and we'll go from there. Unless you cannot formulate what you believe and don't believe without someone else articulating it for you?

What do you think it means?

I'm content to go with common sources for the definition of the word. I won't insult your intelligence, or placate your lack of initiative, by copying and pasting what is easily accessible.

If it isn't already obvious, the poll is facetious. I'm poking fun at the lazy ignorance and gross misunderstanding of something that I actually consider an insidious threat to our way of life. I've tried, in other threads, to explain why I think corporatism is dangerous, but I'm always drowned out by idiots (just like in this thread) who simply don't know what it means, won't look it up, and won't listen if I try to correct them.

So, no, I won't play that game again. Some people here do seem to understand the term and, even if I might disagree with their assessment of it's harmful nature, I appreciate their attention. I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion of the topic with those folks without being drowned out by senseless drivel about the value of corporations.

Common sources contract each other on the meaning of the word. It could mean classifying people by interest as organs of the state. That, in my opinion, is bad. It can also mean that people self organize into groups based on clan or ethnicity. That, in my opinion, is mostly good. It can be bad if the groups are to structured and not open to intermarriage and free exchange. There are many other definitions, all of which are valid, and none of which fit easily into your poll.

I would also like to point out that none of the definitions of corporatism have anything to do with corporations.

Which brings us back to, what do you think it means? Copping out is not an option, unless you are a weasel.