Corrupt Son of a Bitch

[ChrisL]

True, but a drug addict will not quit unless he/she wants to quit.

Most of them do want to quit. Addiction is a disease. You can't wish away a disease.

I disagree that most of them want to quit. Some of them may. Others go to jail, have plenty of opportunities to quit, but choose not to and once they are released, they go right back to it. It has become a "Lifestyle."

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I disagree that most of them want to quit.

On what authority? Ask them. They will say they wish they weren't addicted to drugs.

It is a physical disease. Your choices and behaviors are not the result of some magical soul or divine agency. They are physical, deterministic processes. An opioid addict needs opioids the way you need oxygen. To what extremes would you go to get oxygen, if someone put a bag over your head?

Diseases require some form of treatment. And no, simply denying use for a while doesn't cure anyone. The addiction will always be there. Those that escape it will say, nearly to a man, that they still battle it every day.

 

[ChrisL]

I disagree that most of them want to quit.

On what authority? Ask them. They will say they wish they weren't addicted to drugs.

It is a physical disease. Your choices and behaviors are not the result of some magical soul or divine agency. An opioid addict needs opioids the way you need oxygen. To what extremes would you go to get oxygen, if someone put a bag over your head?

Diseases require some form of treatment. And no, simply denying use for a while doesn't cure anyone. The addiction will always be there. Those that escape it will say, nearly to a man, that they still battle it every day.

I disagree that most of them want to stop doing drugs.

 

[ChrisL]

From what I've seen and heard, a lot of them like their drugs and enjoy getting high and do not want to quit. I work in a hospital, BTW. I've also done medical transcription for a very long time and type legal documents about such people.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I disagree that most of them want to quit.

On what authority? Ask them. They will say they wish they weren't addicted to drugs.

It is a physical disease. Your choices and behaviors are not the result of some magical soul or divine agency. An opioid addict needs opioids the way you need oxygen. To what extremes would you go to get oxygen, if someone put a bag over your head?

Diseases require some form of treatment. And no, simply denying use for a while doesn't cure anyone. The addiction will always be there. Those that escape it will say, nearly to a man, that they still battle it every day.

I disagree that most of them want to stop doing drugs.

Yes, you said that. But you only kinda, sorta "feel" that is true. However, the data shows it is not.

For instance, look at data on those addicted to smoking. When asked, the vast majority will say they wish they could quit.

The data also shows we get different answers to the question, depending on time of last usage, regarding opioid addicts. That is clear, hard evidence of what the physical disease does to their brains.

 

[ChrisL]

If you start doing heavy drugs as an adult, I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy. Bad choices lead to bad consequences and everyone knows the risks of doing drugs.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Allow me to demonstrate:

With 8 ounces of ethyl alcohol, I can change the personality of anyone in this thread. No, you aren't going to "wish away" this effect.

Our brains are deterministic, physical systems.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you start doing heavy drugs as an adult, I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy.

Then go ahead and apply that to people who eat cheeseburgers. Grandpa had of a heart attack? Fuck him, his fault. Let him die, as he should.

Right?

 

[ChrisL]

I disagree that most of them want to quit.

On what authority? Ask them. They will say they wish they weren't addicted to drugs.

It is a physical disease. Your choices and behaviors are not the result of some magical soul or divine agency. An opioid addict needs opioids the way you need oxygen. To what extremes would you go to get oxygen, if someone put a bag over your head?

Diseases require some form of treatment. And no, simply denying use for a while doesn't cure anyone. The addiction will always be there. Those that escape it will say, nearly to a man, that they still battle it every day.

I disagree that most of them want to stop doing drugs.

Yes, you said that. But you only kinda, sorta "feel" that is true. However, the data shows it is not.

For instance, look at data on those addicted to smoking. When asked, the vast majority will say they wish they could quit.

The data also shows we get different answers to the question, depending on time of last usage, regarding opioid addicts. That is clear, hard evidence of what the physical disease does to their brains.

I don't "kinda sorta" feel that way. I feel that way. I've met people who do not want to quit their drug habit. They like doing drugs. Based on my experiences with these people, the vast majority of them do not want to give up their drugs because they enjoy getting high.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Injured in a car accident? Hey, you knew the risks, when you got in that car. Rub some dirt on it, crybaby!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I don't "kinda sorta" feel that way.

As the data contradicts you...yes, you do. Your personal anecdotes are no substitute for scientific research.

 

[ChrisL]

If you start doing heavy drugs as an adult, I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy.

Then go ahead and apply that to people who eat cheeseburgers. Grandpa had of a heart attack? Fuck him, his fault. Let him die, as he should.

Right?

If grandpa has heart disease and continues to smoke and eat cheeseburgers even after his doctor tells him he will die, then that is grandpa's choice and not a good one and taxpayers should not have to buy his cheeseburgers for him either.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If grandpa has heart disease and continues to smoke and eat cheeseburgers even after his doctor tells him he will die, then that is grandpa's choice and not a good one and taxpayers should not have to buy his cheeseburgers for him either.

But I am more than happy to help him get treatment. You aren't. Let's focus on the difference. The heart disease doesn't go away without treatment, and neither does addiction.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't "kinda sorta" feel that way.

As the data contradicts you...yes, you do. Your personal anecdotes are no substitute for scientific research.

There is no scientific research that you have posted that states people who do drugs do not enjoy it. They do, and that is one reason why they are resistant to going into the hospital and getting treatment. Even if you do get them into the hospital, if they don't want to quit, they are not going to, and there are a lot of them who do not want to. There are even some who are angry that Narcan was used on them to save their lives because it "ruined their high." Those are the facts.

 

[ChrisL]

I only feel sorry for the children and families of these drug addicts. They steal from their own family members and some will even murder them to get money for drugs.

 

[ChrisL]

If grandpa has heart disease and continues to smoke and eat cheeseburgers even after his doctor tells him he will die, then that is grandpa's choice and not a good one and taxpayers should not have to buy his cheeseburgers for him either.

But I am more than happy to help him get treatment. You aren't. Let's focus on the difference. The heart disease doesn't go away without treatment, and neither does addiction.

The treatment doesn't work unless he wants to be treated. Otherwise, he is going to continue eating cheeseburgers and smoking.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no scientific research that you have posted that states people who do drugs do not enjoy it.

Because not once did I claim they don't enjoy being high. You are attempting a bait and switch, and that is not going to work with me.

The data shows that addicts will usually admit they wish they weren't addicted. This is true for smokers, alcoholics, and opioid addicts.

But, as has been pointed out multiple times: you cannot "wish away" a disease. And the entire medical community is united in that addiction is a disease. No, you aren't going to upend that with your personal anecdotes or feelings.

 

[ChrisL]

There is no scientific research that you have posted that states people who do drugs do not enjoy it.

Because not once did I claim they don't enjoy being high. You are attempting a bait and switch, and that is not going to work with me.

The data shows that addicts will usually admit they wish they weren't addicted. This is true for smokers, alcoholics, and opioid addicts.

But, as has been pointed out multiple times: you cannot "wish away" a disease. And the entire medical community is united in that addiction is a disease. No, you aren't going to upend that with your personal anecdotes or feelings.

I'm not doing any such thing. The facts are that drug addicts will lie, cheat, steal, and even murder just to get their drugs. They will lie to your face and tell you they are clean. They don't want any help and are perfectly fine with collecting taxpayer dollars to support their habits.

 

[ChrisL]

Getting high is the most important priority for the drug addict. They will do just about anything to get high. No, a lot of them do not want to quit. It is a lifestyle for them.

 

[ChrisL]

The ones who come in voluntarily and actually ask for help are far and few between. Most will fight any type of help they are offered and will even lie and say they are clean. Those are the facts. You cannot treat people if they do not want the help and refuse any treatment. Giving them money is certainly not helping them.