Creationists

[Youwerecreated]

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

They didn't know about "planets." They only knew about Earth. They didn't know it was round. Their metaphysical understanding of the earth and its place in the universe resemble nothing of what we know to be true today. So, I don't care if they were "close." If I picture myself back then, looking up at blackness and with lights all over the sky, I don't think it would be outlandish to conclude that we are held in "nothingness." That is the only reasonable thing to conclude, absent verifiable scientific facts. Their observation is what you would expect from someone before technology and science.

You can say that other planets were held by nothing but they could not have known the eartth was held by nothing. It is reasonable what you are suggesting but what about this scripture.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

This is poetic but very interesting. God set it's foundations,what would these foundations be ? the proper plane,gravity. He has stretched out the heavens how could man at that time know of the expanding universe that we can see ?

 

[Hollie]

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

They didn't know about "planets." They only knew about Earth. They didn't know it was round. Their metaphysical understanding of the earth and its place in the universe resemble nothing of what we know to be true today. So, I don't care if they were "close." If I picture myself back then, looking up at blackness and with lights all over the sky, I don't think it would be outlandish to conclude that we are held in "nothingness." That is the only reasonable thing to conclude, absent verifiable scientific facts. Their observation is what you would expect from someone before technology and science.

You can say that other planets were held by nothing but they could not have known the eartth was held by nothing. It is reasonable what you are suggesting but what about this scripture.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

This is poetic but very interesting. God set it's foundations,what would these foundations be ? the proper plane,gravity. He has stretched out the heavens how could man at that time know of the expanding universe that we can see ?

The obvious resolution to this would have been for the gods to simply provide a concise description of gravity - not like the verse you falsified. Is that so difficult?

All of this subjective interpretation begs the question: "why are the gods so inept at communicating their message in a clear and precise manner"?

 

[Youwerecreated]

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

Oh, so if I scoff, that means the bible is true? So, the bible can say anything, and then simply including this "scoffing clause" and therefore, anybody who doubts means the bible is more true, because it predicted people might doubt it? That's terrible, and evil. It means people MUST believe this book, without question. People can not and should not think for themselves, and should not question an authority. It is this kind of thinking that allows and propagates so much evil in this world.

It manipulative and dishonest, and again, an obvious "prophecy" that in no way confirms or is evidence of the bible.

I am going to make a proclamation:

"The Flying Spaghetti Monster Exists. Mark my words, there will be those who scoff at and deny His existence. Pay no attention. They will suffer eternally. However, those that believe in him shall have everlasting life"

Now, if you doubt the Spaghetti monster, you are only confirming what my prophetic statement of what will happen, meaning, I must have had prophetic knowledge, which confirms that I am in touch with this almighty Spaghetti Monster.

Hopefully, you can see the absurdity of this logic, yet it perfectly mirrors what you quoted.

The point is, anyone can play this game. It doesn't prove anything being true about the bible. Simply that the person who wrote it, foresaw that some might doubt it, so included this. That's not incredibly difficult to foresee, or and even easier to include in the bible. You just write it down.

It warned of scoffers but it also warned of something else I would like to point out.

1Ti 1:3 Even as I begged you to remain at Ephesus, when I was going to Macedonia, that you might charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti 1:4 nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies (which provide doubts rather than the nurture of God in faith).


2Pe 1:14 knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is soon, as indeed our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.
2Pe 1:15 And I will also be diligent to cause you to always have memory of these things after my departure.
2Pe 1:16 For not having followed fables having been cunningly devised, but becoming eyewitnesses of the majesty of Jesus Christ, we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord.



fables
folklore basics




Definition: A short allegorical narrative making a moral point, traditionally by means of animal characters who speak and act like human beings.

Expanded Definition: What Is a Fable?


•"In the first place, the fable must exhibit the animals as being endowed with human reason, and initiated into all the customs and conditions of our mode of living, so that their behavior has nothing at all odd in it." -- Jacob Grimm

 

[Youwerecreated]

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

How would man at that time know of an expanding universe.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

There are many more "scoffers" because religions simply don't have ability to instill the paralyzing fear they once had. As knowledge has peeled back the layers of superstition that define religious belief, we have come to understand that natural events (planetary eclipse, tornadoes, thunder, lightning, etc.), are not the results of angry gods but are forces of nature. We largely understand those forces and events. If you want to know the date and time of every lunar eclipse in the next 1,000 years, you could consult a fundie (who might tell you "it's up to the will of the gods" and may want to slaughter a lamb ), or you could ask an astronomer who will explain the orbits of planets around the sun and the coincidence of planets in those orbits.

The instillation of fear as a means to enforce religious belief is still a tactic, but that tactic is much less effective when science counters fear and ignorance with knowledge and reason.

I don't believe true believers believe in God out of fear. My only fear of God is respect. I worship him because I choose to. I used my freewill just as you have used yours not to believe in him.

 

[Youwerecreated]

They didn't know about "planets." They only knew about Earth. They didn't know it was round. Their metaphysical understanding of the earth and its place in the universe resemble nothing of what we know to be true today. So, I don't care if they were "close." If I picture myself back then, looking up at blackness and with lights all over the sky, I don't think it would be outlandish to conclude that we are held in "nothingness." That is the only reasonable thing to conclude, absent verifiable scientific facts. Their observation is what you would expect from someone before technology and science.

You can say that other planets were held by nothing but they could not have known the eartth was held by nothing. It is reasonable what you are suggesting but what about this scripture.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

This is poetic but very interesting. God set it's foundations,what would these foundations be ? the proper plane,gravity. He has stretched out the heavens how could man at that time know of the expanding universe that we can see ?

The obvious resolution to this would have been for the gods to simply provide a concise description of gravity - not like the verse you falsified. Is that so difficult?

All of this subjective interpretation begs the question: "why are the gods so inept at communicating their message in a clear and precise manner"?

So because God did not fully explain his creations he doesn't exist ?

 

[Hollie]

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

How would man at that time know of an expanding universe.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

It's difficult not to miss your generous allowance for adding to bible verses what was not in the verse. As much as you prefer to falsify verses to add content of your own, we call that being dishonest.

The verse you posted (if not altered by you), never proposes the concept of an expanding universe. In fact, the verse never references a "universe" at all, but rather "heavens", in rather glaring contradiction to your allegation.

There was no conception of an expanding universe at writing of the bible. "Heavens" was simply the sky above.

 

[Hollie]

You can say that other planets were held by nothing but they could not have known the eartth was held by nothing. It is reasonable what you are suggesting but what about this scripture.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

This is poetic but very interesting. God set it's foundations,what would these foundations be ? the proper plane,gravity. He has stretched out the heavens how could man at that time know of the expanding universe that we can see ?

The obvious resolution to this would have been for the gods to simply provide a concise description of gravity - not like the verse you falsified. Is that so difficult?

All of this subjective interpretation begs the question: "why are the gods so inept at communicating their message in a clear and precise manner"?

So because God did not fully explain his creations he doesn't exist ?

So are you insisting that gods exist because you read that in an ancient book of tales and fables? What "creation" are you attributing to these gods you claim exist?

How about Leprechauns? do you believe they exist? I've read about them in books.

 

[UltimateReality]

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

I was talking about Gravity.

 

[UltimateReality]

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Unfortunately. this is the mindlessness that grips creationists. Invisible forces like invisible gods are convenient excuses to halt any examination and any exploration. The greatest fear that fundies is fear of knowledge because knowledge provides explanations and an understanding of events.

Actually, I was talking about the invisible force YOU believe in called Gravity. It is one of those forces that just is. We can measure it. We can see it's effects. But there is no observable mechanism, even at the atomic level, for why mass attracts other mass. Or for why the force of it is exactly inversely proportional to distance. God is kind of like gravity. You can deny gravity exists all you want, but if you jump off a building, you will find out the hard way gravity is very real.

If you had a college education, you might have caught on to this.

 

[UltimateReality]

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

There are many more "scoffers" because religions simply don't have ability to instill the paralyzing fear they once had. As knowledge has peeled back the layers of superstition that define religious belief, we have come to understand that natural events (planetary eclipse, tornadoes, thunder, lightning, etc.), are not the results of angry gods but are forces of nature. We largely understand those forces and events. If you want to know the date and time of every lunar eclipse in the next 1,000 years, you could consult a fundie (who might tell you "it's up to the will of the gods" and may want to slaughter a lamb ), or you could ask an astronomer who will explain the orbits of planets around the sun and the coincidence of planets in those orbits.

The instillation of fear as a means to enforce religious belief is still a tactic, but that tactic is much less effective when science counters fear and ignorance with knowledge and reason.

If humans randomly come from nature, and circuit boards, spaceships, and engines comes from humans, don't circuit boards, spaceships, and engines come from nature?

 

[UltimateReality]

You can say that other planets were held by nothing but they could not have known the eartth was held by nothing. It is reasonable what you are suggesting but what about this scripture.

Isa 48:13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.

This is poetic but very interesting. God set it's foundations,what would these foundations be ? the proper plane,gravity. He has stretched out the heavens how could man at that time know of the expanding universe that we can see ?

The obvious resolution to this would have been for the gods to simply provide a concise description of gravity - not like the verse you falsified. Is that so difficult?

All of this subjective interpretation begs the question: "why are the gods so inept at communicating their message in a clear and precise manner"?

So because God did not fully explain his creations he doesn't exist ?

I guess Hollie doesn't exist because she has never explained her educational background that makes her qualified to spew the same, repetitive dribble she endlessly and mindlessly cuts and pastes.

 

[UltimateReality]

The obvious resolution to this would have been for the gods to simply provide a concise description of gravity - not like the verse you falsified. Is that so difficult?

All of this subjective interpretation begs the question: "why are the gods so inept at communicating their message in a clear and precise manner"?

So because God did not fully explain his creations he doesn't exist ?

So are you insisting that gods exist because you read that in an ancient book of tales and fables? What "creation" are you attributing to these gods you claim exist?

How about Leprechauns? do you believe they exist? I've read about them in books.

No leprechauns, but I have personally interacted with trolls right her on this very forum.

 

[Hollie]

So because God did not fully explain his creations he doesn't exist ?

So are you insisting that gods exist because you read that in an ancient book of tales and fables? What "creation" are you attributing to these gods you claim exist?

How about Leprechauns? do you believe they exist? I've read about them in books.

No leprechauns, but I have personally interacted with trolls right her on this very forum.

Would you define a troll as a creepy stalker who has spent multiple pages pressing another poster for personal information?

Would a troll be defined as a creepy stalker who posts spam for multiple pages of posts with no intention or ability to respond to salient points.

Your stalking makes my skin crawl. Others have noticed your creepy behavior. Twelve year olds such as yourself should have a time- out.

 

[ima]

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

I was talking about Gravity.

The universe isn't held together by gravity, like I said, things are moving away from each other as though they came from an explosion. Better luck next time. Please try again soon.

 

[daws101]

...he might as well have said without god your life doesn't matter...

Yes, I'm saying that too. Prove that under materialism and naturalism that statement is not true. If this planet and humankind are accidents, randomly generated, how does your life matter. When you die, it won't have mattered. When everyone who knew you is gone, it will have meant nothing.

and you'd be talking out your ass as always..
there is no need for me to prove anything, the burden of proof is yours.
in your twisted pov you've some how extremely over estimated your own importance, you like everyone else who doesn't make it into the history books will be forgotten.
btw nice job of cherrypicking.

 

[daws101]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.




.

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

two bullshit statements by ywc...
there is no way to directly "see" gravity" as it is not a form of radiation.

modern Hebrew is not spoken in the same pattern as modern English so there is no reason to expect ancient hebrew would.
fun fact! both languages have evolved over time.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

I was talking about Gravity.

The universe isn't held together by gravity, like I said, things are moving away from each other as though they came from an explosion. Better luck next time. Please try again soon.

By explosion do you mean the big bang ?

 

[daws101]

Scoffers have become many today.

There are many more "scoffers" because religions simply don't have ability to instill the paralyzing fear they once had. As knowledge has peeled back the layers of superstition that define religious belief, we have come to understand that natural events (planetary eclipse, tornadoes, thunder, lightning, etc.), are not the results of angry gods but are forces of nature. We largely understand those forces and events. If you want to know the date and time of every lunar eclipse in the next 1,000 years, you could consult a fundie (who might tell you "it's up to the will of the gods" and may want to slaughter a lamb ), or you could ask an astronomer who will explain the orbits of planets around the sun and the coincidence of planets in those orbits.

The instillation of fear as a means to enforce religious belief is still a tactic, but that tactic is much less effective when science counters fear and ignorance with knowledge and reason.

If humans randomly come from nature, and circuit boards, spaceships, and engines comes from nature, don't circuit boards, spaceships, and engines come from nature?

false comparison

 

[Youwerecreated]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.




.

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

two bullshit statements by ywc...
there is no way to directly "see" gravity" as it is not a form of radiation.

modern Hebrew is not spoken in the same pattern as modern English so there is no reason to expect ancient hebrew would.
fun fact! both languages have evolved over time.

I did not say you can see gravity, What I said was you can see it's effects.