Creationists

[Youwerecreated]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.




.

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.
.

I noticed that also. Job 26:7 makes no mention of gravity.

It is remarkable how dishonest fundies are. They simply re-write and edit their bibles as they see fit.

It's not surprising you lack the ability to reason.

 

[newpolitics]

Progressive creationism is built on assumptions not facts just like many scientific theories. What was the point of God handing down judgment on adam if things were already dying.

I still have not seen any scriptures that would make me consider an old earth view. People can believe as they wish but for me my doctrine comes from the bible. Are all my beliefs in line with what the scrptures say ? I believe they are I don't believe doctrine that I don't see in the scrptures.

I don't make my beliefs fit what man thinks my beliefs have to fit what the creator say's.

I always find it tragically comic that fundies will make comments such as: "I don't make my beliefs fit what man thinks my beliefs have to fit what the creator say's"

The fact is, all of the alleged "holy texts" are undeniably written by men.

It’s quite simple, really: A book is simply that, a book. There is no solid reason to connect any supernatural entity with the authorship of a book. Never, ever, in all of the history of humanity has any god made their existence extant. Never in human history has any one of the 14,000 or so alleged gods presented themselves in a fashion understandable to humans, And in fact, all of the alleged gods have eventually been superseded and/or replaced by the more currently in-vogue gods. It’s just a fact that the bible was written by men, edited, revised and compiled by many men. That is not conjecture or assumption on my part, it’s just a fact. I care about these inventions of supernatural entities because religions and supernatural beliefs can have the effect of keeping humanity in bondage, both mentally and physically. I’m forced to acknowledge these various religious beliefs because countless billions of people are made to live their lives in trembling fear of an asserted supernatural entity who will bring forth such things as hell and plagues and various "wraths", "curses" and "spells". Faith, then, is ultimately a confused marriage of blind, uncritical trust, and wishful thinking. No matter how fervently one believes in an improbability or an outright contradiction, it will not suddenly spring into being merely because people wish it so. As Anatole France said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

Many of the writings confirm a superior being inspired the writings. There are things mentioned in the writings that man did know at that time. These writings had to be inspired from someone superior to man.

No, the writings in the bible do not objectively confirm a superior AT ALL. If this was the case, everybody would believe. Only to one who already believes, would the bible or the koran carry this kind of significance, but that is saying nothing about the objective veracity of the bible. It requires faith to be believe in the bible as true, because there is nothing special about the bible, unless you grant it special privilege, because you already believe in it. It is circular no matter which way you cut it.

There is ZERO specific knowledge in the bible that suggests the writers knew more than was possible at that time. Please, provide an example, and I will debunk it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I believe God put Adam in the garden about 10,000 years ago.

Chronology of man according to the scriptures suggest 6,000 years, Why do you believe 10,000 years ?

Fossil evidence.

Ok that is where we part in beliefs the dating methods.

Do you trust carbon 14 dating when things like stones were dated much older then carbon could last and in those stones carbon was found in the stones.

 

[newpolitics]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.




.

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

 

[newpolitics]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.
.

I noticed that also. Job 26:7 makes no mention of gravity.

It is remarkable how dishonest fundies are. They simply re-write and edit their bibles as they see fit.

It's not surprising you lack the ability to reason.

You shouldn't talk to anybody about reason as a young earth creationist. You believe a book written two millennia simply because it proclaims itself to be true. That's not reasonable. That's gullibility.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Progressive creationism is built on assumptions not facts just like many scientific theories. What was the point of God handing down judgment on adam if things were already dying.

Let's take this logic one step further. Christ conquered death on the cross. I believe in him and confess that God has raised him from the dead. Yet, I will still die a physical death. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Yet Christians still perish physically. What on earth could John be talking about? Are you saying the Bible's definition of death is contradictory?

Logic would say instead that there's no real proof that Jesus was on a cross. Or even existed.

Believe as you wish historians have written about Jesus.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I always find it tragically comic that fundies will make comments such as: "I don't make my beliefs fit what man thinks my beliefs have to fit what the creator say's"

The fact is, all of the alleged "holy texts" are undeniably written by men.

It’s quite simple, really: A book is simply that, a book. There is no solid reason to connect any supernatural entity with the authorship of a book. Never, ever, in all of the history of humanity has any god made their existence extant. Never in human history has any one of the 14,000 or so alleged gods presented themselves in a fashion understandable to humans, And in fact, all of the alleged gods have eventually been superseded and/or replaced by the more currently in-vogue gods. It’s just a fact that the bible was written by men, edited, revised and compiled by many men. That is not conjecture or assumption on my part, it’s just a fact. I care about these inventions of supernatural entities because religions and supernatural beliefs can have the effect of keeping humanity in bondage, both mentally and physically. I’m forced to acknowledge these various religious beliefs because countless billions of people are made to live their lives in trembling fear of an asserted supernatural entity who will bring forth such things as hell and plagues and various "wraths", "curses" and "spells". Faith, then, is ultimately a confused marriage of blind, uncritical trust, and wishful thinking. No matter how fervently one believes in an improbability or an outright contradiction, it will not suddenly spring into being merely because people wish it so. As Anatole France said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

Many of the writings confirm a superior being inspired the writings. There are things mentioned in the writings that man did know at that time. These writings had to be inspired from someone superior to man.

No, the writings in the bible do not objectively confirm a superior AT ALL. If this was the case, everybody would believe. Only to one who already believes, would the bible or the koran carry this kind of significance, but that is saying nothing about the objective veracity of the bible. It requires faith to be believe in the bible as true, because there is nothing special about the bible, unless you grant it special privilege, because you already believe in it. It is circular no matter which way you cut it.

There is ZERO specific knowledge in the bible that suggests the writers knew more than was possible at that time. Please, provide an example, and I will debunk it.

Really ? Jesus knew a day like this would come and predicted it.

2Pe 3:1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind by reminder
2Pe 3:2 to remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
2Pe 3:3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

 

[Youwerecreated]

1.The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

I didn't realize that gravity=nothing. Geez, their first fucking example.




.

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

 

[newpolitics]

Many of the writings confirm a superior being inspired the writings. There are things mentioned in the writings that man did know at that time. These writings had to be inspired from someone superior to man.

No, the writings in the bible do not objectively confirm a superior AT ALL. If this was the case, everybody would believe. Only to one who already believes, would the bible or the koran carry this kind of significance, but that is saying nothing about the objective veracity of the bible. It requires faith to be believe in the bible as true, because there is nothing special about the bible, unless you grant it special privilege, because you already believe in it. It is circular no matter which way you cut it.

There is ZERO specific knowledge in the bible that suggests the writers knew more than was possible at that time. Please, provide an example, and I will debunk it.

Really ? Jesus knew a day like this would come and predicted it.

2Pe 3:1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind by reminder
2Pe 3:2 to remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
2Pe 3:3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I noticed that also. Job 26:7 makes no mention of gravity.

It is remarkable how dishonest fundies are. They simply re-write and edit their bibles as they see fit.

It's not surprising you lack the ability to reason.

You shouldn't talk to anybody about reason as a young earth creationist. You believe a book written two millennia simply because it proclaims itself to be true. That's not reasonable. That's gullibility.

There are many reasons I trust the bible as a credible source, sorry if that disappoints you.

 

[newpolitics]

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

They didn't know about "planets." They only knew about Earth. They didn't know it was round. Their metaphysical understanding of the earth and its place in the universe resemble nothing of what we know to be true today. So, I don't care if they were "close." If I picture myself back then, looking up at blackness and with lights all over the sky, I don't think it would be outlandish to conclude that we are held in "nothingness." That is the only reasonable thing to conclude, absent verifiable scientific facts. Their observation is what you would expect from someone before technology and science.

 

[newpolitics]

It's not surprising you lack the ability to reason.

You shouldn't talk to anybody about reason as a young earth creationist. You believe a book written two millennia simply because it proclaims itself to be true. That's not reasonable. That's gullibility.

There are many reasons I trust the bible as a credible source, sorry if that disappoints you.

That's fine. I don't have a problem with you believing something. If you makes you happy, that's cool. But, you use the bible to try to convince people of things, and that is a problem, and at that point, I have a right to say something, because you are making claims about reality based on something with no credibility as far as reality goes. The bible can not demonstrated to be what it claims to be, and that is crucial. If you want to take it on faith because it serves you, fine. If you are going to use it to try to create arguments and convince others to your side, then others have every right to call the credibility of the bible into question, which it should. Saying the bible is true is simply special pleading. There is no more reason to believe the bible is true over the koran, or any other ancient or modern religious text.

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, the writings in the bible do not objectively confirm a superior AT ALL. If this was the case, everybody would believe. Only to one who already believes, would the bible or the koran carry this kind of significance, but that is saying nothing about the objective veracity of the bible. It requires faith to be believe in the bible as true, because there is nothing special about the bible, unless you grant it special privilege, because you already believe in it. It is circular no matter which way you cut it.

There is ZERO specific knowledge in the bible that suggests the writers knew more than was possible at that time. Please, provide an example, and I will debunk it.

Really ? Jesus knew a day like this would come and predicted it.

2Pe 3:1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind by reminder
2Pe 3:2 to remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
2Pe 3:3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

 

[newpolitics]

Really ? Jesus knew a day like this would come and predicted it.

2Pe 3:1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind by reminder
2Pe 3:2 to remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
2Pe 3:3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

Oh, so if I scoff, that means the bible is true? So, the bible can say anything, and then simply including this "scoffing clause" and therefore, anybody who doubts means the bible is more true, because it predicted people might doubt it? That's terrible, and evil. It means people MUST believe this book, without question. People can not and should not think for themselves, and should not question an authority. It is this kind of thinking that allows and propagates so much evil in this world.

It manipulative and dishonest, and again, an obvious "prophecy" that in no way confirms or is evidence of the bible.

I am going to make a proclamation:

"The Flying Spaghetti Monster Exists. Mark my words, there will be those who scoff at and deny His existence. Pay no attention. They will suffer eternally. However, those that believe in him shall have everlasting life"

Now, if you doubt the Spaghetti monster, you are only confirming what my prophetic statement of what will happen, meaning, I must have had prophetic knowledge, which confirms that I am in touch with this almighty Spaghetti Monster.

Hopefully, you can see the absurdity of this logic, yet it perfectly mirrors what you quoted.

The point is, anyone can play this game. It doesn't prove anything being true about the bible. Simply that the person who wrote it, foresaw that some might doubt it, so included this. That's not incredibly difficult to foresee, or and even easier to include in the bible. You just write it down.

 

[UltimateReality]

Can gravity be seen or is it like the wind you can only see it's effects ?

Do you believe the Hebrew language back then can be spoken in the same pattern that english is spoken today ?

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

 

[ima]

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Actually, objects in the universe have been detected to be heading away from each other, so no, the universe isn't held together by an invisible force and in fact the moon has been measured to be moving away from earth and will eventually escape earth's gravitational pull.

 

[Hollie]

Pretty obvious, as usual, you didn't actually click on the links. Many of them were to the same generic definition page.

And this one Loki linked actually says what I was claiming!!!!

[/URL].[/INDENT]

fitness: The success of an entity in reproducing; hence, the average contribution of an allele or genotype to the next generation or to succeeding generations. Relative fitness is the average contribution of an allele or genotype compared with that of another allele or genotype.

This was basically an article with more opinions about opinions.

"Philosophers do continue to seek an broad philosophical account of fitness, but agree that it is not tautological, and that it does describe a general tendency of a trait or organism, not — as EE prefers — a description of the actual performance of an organism. Thus, an individual can be fit (possess traits which ought to increase its reproductive success) but not reproduce. It could be struck by lightning, for instance. Treating fitness as a tendency eliminates any circularity, just as recognizing that salt tends to dissolve in water allows you to describe salt as soluble even if it never is placed in water. A gene can tend to be more fit without making each individual possessing that trait produce more offspring."

Proof that no one still can agree, much less comply with the scientific method to test for evolution. And so you cling to your Darwinian Myth. You are going to have to come up with some better material than this, Loki, if you want to be taken seriously on here.​

Oh you poor fundie. It was you who didn't read the link. The portion you referenced identified "philosophers" as having difficulty defining fitness for survival. Scientists have no such dilemma.

To the back of the line you go with your gods and other supernatural things that go bump in the night.​

Hollie, you are in way over your head on this one. Why don't you leave this for the folks with a college education.​

I did expect that you would sidestep any accounting of my comments relative to original sin. That is an issue which speaks to the core of christianity.

The reason why certain fundie type of Christians refuse to accept scientific findings is because they need a literal Adam and Eve to support their notion that all human beings are born totally depraved with Original Sin, and therefore in need of Salvation through Christ-- in fact, that was the whole reason for the crucifixion. If you replace Adam and Eve with Homo Erectus, the idea of the Fall of Man and Original Sin is a little hard to reconcile.

But more to the point, there is a certain personality type that is consumed by self-hate, insecurity and doubt. Those personality types seem especially vulnerable to manipulation by fear and suggestion of such things as eternal torment. While such installation of scare tactics can cohere certain groups of people, why would you expect anyone else to accept such a prescription for a maladjusted personality. And worse, why would you expect anyone else would want such feelings of self-hate and hopelessness imposed on school children.​

 

[Hollie]

That's a lame excuse. The concepts are the same. They clearly were not aware of gravity whatsoever, as this only happened with Isaac Newton. An ancient greek had already figured out that the earth was round, so you can't use that one either, and besides, the bible doesn't allude to the earth by a sphere, but a circle. A 2-dimensional circle. You're missing an entire dimension!

Planets appear to be free floating and held by nothing but they are held by something are they not ?

Well, not really. The whole universe is held together by an invisible force, which, in spite of all the leaps and bounds in science, has no observable mechanism. Only its effects are understood, and now even those are being called into question.

Unfortunately. this is the mindlessness that grips creationists. Invisible forces like invisible gods are convenient excuses to halt any examination and any exploration. The greatest fear that fundies is fear of knowledge because knowledge provides explanations and an understanding of events.

 

[Hollie]

Really ? Jesus knew a day like this would come and predicted it.

2Pe 3:1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind by reminder
2Pe 3:2 to remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
2Pe 3:3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

This is as meaningless as reading astrological predictions. Utterly vague, and therefore, always true to a degree, just like in astrology. Same tactic. If you keep things vague enough, such as "There will be War. People will fight. Families will be torn apart...," you'll never be completely wrong. Any idiot with a brain can say with CERTAINTY that these conditions will continue on as long humans exist. I don't see why you think this is so special. You are displaying massive confirmation bias with your interpretation of the bible.

Scoffers have become many today.

There are many more "scoffers" because religions simply don't have ability to instill the paralyzing fear they once had. As knowledge has peeled back the layers of superstition that define religious belief, we have come to understand that natural events (planetary eclipse, tornadoes, thunder, lightning, etc.), are not the results of angry gods but are forces of nature. We largely understand those forces and events. If you want to know the date and time of every lunar eclipse in the next 1,000 years, you could consult a fundie (who might tell you "it's up to the will of the gods" and may want to slaughter a lamb ), or you could ask an astronomer who will explain the orbits of planets around the sun and the coincidence of planets in those orbits.

The instillation of fear as a means to enforce religious belief is still a tactic, but that tactic is much less effective when science counters fear and ignorance with knowledge and reason.