Creationists

[daws101]

Yep, you just confirmed you are one sick pig. While I agree that is disturbing and inhumane, what do you expect from a nation that has abandoned God?? Along with your unnatural affection for other men, you also have an un-natrual disdain for the sanctity of human life. Who was it that claimed atheists don't worship the creation?? This is the same type of thinking that allowed the Nazi's to gas men, women and children like they were insignificant pieces of garbage. And this is no doubt what happens when men abandon logic and embrace the law of the jungle that materialism espouses.

I find it hilarious that you think our lack of compassion for animals is caused by our "distance from god" when the holy shitbook says this:

"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Gen. 1:26

If anything, it is because of religious adherence that people exhibit speciesist mentalities. Atheism frees one from this doctrine, and allows you to see that animal pain is the same as human pain. They possess a central nervous system, just as we do. The ability to add 2+2 has nothing to do with pain detection.

Wrong!! Except for some primates, most animals are not self aware and do not experience the psychological aspect of pain like humans do. They don't have the "I feel" experience. So how did you translate "rule over" in the Bible as being on par with skinning a live animal? God says even a sparrow doesn't fall but that he is there to care. But the Bible also teaches animals are for food as well. And it definitely teaches human life is sacred, and that includes unborn humans.

Psalm 139 (NIV)

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.

another non answer completely ambiguous
evidence of nothing .

 

[daws101]

Yep, you just confirmed you are one sick pig. While I agree that is disturbing and inhumane, what do you expect from a nation that has abandoned God like atheistic China?? Horrible atrocities are a sure thing with the brutality that accompanies the loss of compassion which comes from God. Along with your unnatural affection for other men, you also have an un-natrual disdain for the sanctity of human life. Who was it that claimed atheists don't worship the creation?? This is the same type of thinking that allowed the Nazi's to gas men, women and children like they were insignificant pieces of garbage. And this is no doubt what happens when men abandon logic and embrace the law of the jungle that materialism espouses.

Gee whiz. It's a Jim Jones / David Koresh wannabe.

We should explain to the cult member that Nazi'ism was deeply rooted in christianity but that might push him over the edge.

Whether they were or not Jesus warned many that would profess to be a Christian but they are actually ravenous wolves looking to devour.

He also will claim to him they did works in his name and he said to them get away from for I know you not.

So what was your point ?

what's yours?

 

[ima]

So, has anyone spotted this "ID" person yet? Is he still invisible?

to us. He exists outside of space, matter, time and energy. This Being predates the Big Bang so how do you think you would be able to see him??

How can you say that with zero proof? It's more like a wish, isn't it?

 

[daws101]

That is exactly right and why your side should back off being so arrogant. I am not the one arguing from the stand point of ignorance that would be you. I can and did provide evidence for what I believe. Anytime you fellas run out this ignorant argument well how do you know we won't find this or that you have just lost your credibility. You let me know when you find it

We are not talking about gaps concerning your theory,we are talking gaping holes. Life by design definitely possesses more credibility. I said it once, I don't need to present the creator to you he has already done that. I don't need to prove God exist's all i have to do is prove design. Really it was not me it was many that have proved design I am just one who is not ignorant when it comes to this subject and I agree with the ones who say life just simply didn't come in to existence through naturalism.

I found it interesting that you selectively excuse your alleged gawds from meeting any standard of proof that you insist science must meet.

Why do we need to prove God exists if we can prove design ? someone gets credit for design. You can't hide behind the copout, well because we don't know now does not mean we will not know in the future.

since you proven neither.....and there is no evidence for a someone...yours is the copout.
you've been hedging your bet on the all will be reveled nonsense for the last 2000 years.
you'll be be spouting the same nonsense till the religion dies ,with no proof of your claims...
BTW when I use the word "you" I mean all Christianity not just you.

 

[daws101]

For what ? to see more evidence that is only conjecture. It's not evolution,they are adaptations. Once again there are limits to adaptation. If any organism goes beyond the limits of adaptation what happens ?

Do you know what evidence is ?

I fully expected that you would reel into defensive posturing at yet another of your specious claims being refuted.

Then present what you find on google and I will explain it to you

explain what?judging from your answer it appearers you have no idea what hollie said.
another failed attempt at faking it..

 

[daws101]

Yep, you just confirmed you are one sick pig. While I agree that is disturbing and inhumane, what do you expect from a nation that has abandoned God like atheistic China?? Horrible atrocities are a sure thing with the brutality that accompanies the loss of compassion which comes from God. Along with your unnatural affection for other men, you also have an un-natrual disdain for the sanctity of human life. Who was it that claimed atheists don't worship the creation?? This is the same type of thinking that allowed the Nazi's to gas men, women and children like they were insignificant pieces of garbage. And this is no doubt what happens when men abandon logic and embrace the law of the jungle that materialism espouses.

Gee whiz. It's a Jim Jones / David Koresh wannabe.

We should explain to the cult member that Nazi'ism was deeply rooted in christianity but that might push him over the edge.

No one is falling for your revisionist propaganda regarding the Nazi's, Nazi. This comes from your ignorant view that just because someone is labeled Christian by their families church affiliation, that makes them a Christian. It does not. To be a Christian you must follow the teachings of Christ.

edited for irrelevance....

 

[daws101]

So, has anyone spotted this "ID" person yet? Is he still invisible?

to us. He exists outside of space, matter, time and energy. This Being predates the Big Bang so how do you think you would be able to see him??

major masturbation fantasy...

 

[daws101]

Wrong!! Except for some primates, most animals are not self aware and do not experience the psychological aspect of pain like humans do. They don't have the "I feel" experience. So how did you translate "rule over" in the Bible as being on par with skinning a live animal? God says even a sparrow doesn't fall but that he is there to care. But the Bible also teaches animals are for food as well. And it definitely teaches human life is sacred, and that includes unborn humans.

Psalm 139 (NIV)

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.

You just demonstrated my point for me,entirely. You are unable to take into account, the pain of animals, because of some bullshit excuse you give yourself about self-awareness, and the justification you receive from the bible. Here's the bullshit: First of all, you can't positively know the phenomenological experience of animals, despite self-awareness tests we may have done. Most farm animals are very social creatures, with rights to life just as much as the dogs or cats we bring into our home (in the Western World- I realize China eats dogs). Pigs are smarter than dogs, yet we love dogs and subject pigs to institutional torture and death? Cows are also very social animals too, that want to live.

Really though, intelligence has nothing to do with pain detection. It is an entirely different system in the brain. You are using Descartes argument or William Lane Craig's argument, where he says the animal isn't able to feel pain because it isn't self-aware. This is impossible to establish as a fact, because despite any tests we do, we will never know their subjective experience of the world and of themselves. The only thing that is important, is whether they can feel pain. This is demonstrably, yes. Also, animals have interests of their own, and we completely ignore them for our own. This is selfish, and narcissistic, and what's worse are the bullshit justifications such the ones you just provided.

Unborn babies certainly are not self-aware, so any argument that supports your justification for eating animals could also be applied to babies before they are around 2 years old, when they become self-aware. Your position is based on speciesism, plain and simple. It is special pleading that babies be taken into our moral account, even though most farm animals are smarter than babies and more self-aware. Obviously, I am not advocating we start eating babies, but any argument you try to provide that shows preference for the interests of human babies over adult animals is special pleading. You have no justification to do so, other than the "might makes right" fallacy (appeal to Ad Baculum: appeal to force).

Leave it to you to Strawman this. I did not say animals did not feel pain or discomfort. I said they don't experience it the same way someone who is self aware does.

Maybe you should outlaw lions on the African plain. Those sickos kill and start to eat other animals while they are still alive!!! And your designer made it this way!!!

Also, I am not arguing unborn babies should be protected because they are self aware. I am arguing they should be protected because they are humans!!!

there is no proof that human babies are any more or less sentient then other mammals .

Dr James Kirkwood, chief executive and scientific director of the Universities' Federation for Animal Welfare (Ufaw), gives qualified approval to CIWF's approach.

He told BBC News Online: "Animal sentience has been a matter of debate down the centuries.

"We can't prove absolutely even that another human being is sentient, though it would obviously be unreasonable to assume they are not.

"But the weight of scientific opinion is that it's certainly right to give the benefit of the doubt to all vertebrates."

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Animals 'are moral beings'



tosspot

 

[daws101]

Not smart enough to be an investigator?

That's a little rude.

Ha!! Now this is funny!! Ima mistakenly thought your new buddy was a Creationist. Since he isn't, you quickly came to his defense.

No, you're not bias!!!!

the queen of bias speaks!!

 

[daws101]

Ha!! Now this is funny!! Ima mistakenly thought your new buddy was a Creationist. Since he isn't, you quickly came to his defense.

No, you're not bias!!!!

You are hilariously predictable. I never claimed to be non-bias.

Really?? So now you admit it. And your bias extends to all your opinions on so called science as well then.

false assumption based on bias and hubris.

 

[daws101]

No one is falling for your revisionist propaganda regarding the Nazi's, Nazi. This comes from your ignorant view that just because someone is labeled Christian by their families church affiliation, that makes them a Christian. It does not. To be a Christian you must follow the teachings of Christ.

Mark 12(NIV):

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.


Of course you are self-loathing enough to want to destroy your own life so I can see you escorting Christians into the gas chamber.

The revisionist is you. It's just dishonest at its core to try and separate christianity from Nazi ideology. Additionally, it seems to be a common tactic of Christians, particularly, to make personal decisions as to who is a "real Christian" and who isn't. It really is a way for some to excuse the actions of those who have used their religious belief as a means of justifying whatever atrocity they chose to commit.

That Christian fundamentalists choose to use their religion as a means to maintain themselves chained to fear and ignorance is pitiable but those flaws cannot be allowed to be inflicted on others.

In your twisted worldview and bigoted hate campaign, it is no surprise that you fantasize that your favorite evil atheist regime was made up of Christians.

another bigoted false assumption, Christianity was doing genocide a thousand years before before the Nazis

 

[daws101]

to us. He exists outside of space, matter, time and energy. This Being predates the Big Bang so how do you think you would be able to see him??

In other words, by definition, he doesn't exist.

Your logic is all twisted up. No, not by definition!! Where do you come up with this crap? Because you can't see it, taste it, smell it, hear it, touch it, it isn't real? Yet, your atheist brethren in their zeal to disprove the fine tuning argument for God have come up with the Multiple Universe theory. No one seems to be bugged that the other universes exist outside our universe. You're pathetic and not even worth arguing with.

smells like a tantrum to me!
"Because you can't see it, taste it, smell it, hear it, touch it, it isn't real?"-ur that's the truest thing you ever said....talk about Freudian slips
in short, god cannot be experienced in natural ways or it seems or by technological methods highly fucked up logic since in your belief system god gave us 5 senses and the ability to build machines that could sense what we could not.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So, has anyone spotted this "ID" person yet? Is he still invisible?

Same can be said for your designer

Nature and rationality neither presume nor require supernaturalism or magic in contrast to the Christian creationist worldview replete with gawds, demons and tactics formulated to instill fear and ignorance.

Just empty words hollie.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So, has anyone spotted this "ID" person yet? Is he still invisible?

Same can be said for your designer

It's a miracle life exists and your designer is naturalism.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So, has anyone spotted this "ID" person yet? Is he still invisible?

Same can be said for your designer

A truly futile attempt to project the empty and unsupported conclusions you make about there being a designer onto those on the other side of the debate. Naturalism is not our designer, because it has no ontology, which precludes this very possibility of it being a "designer". Naturalism is an idea that potentially describes the universe. Stop projecting your silliness onto the other side because it makes you feel better to shrug off the burden of your own irrationality.

So you believe in miracles to.

 

[Youwerecreated]

That is exactly right and why your side should back off being so arrogant. I am not the one arguing from the stand point of ignorance that would be you. I can and did provide evidence for what I believe. Anytime you fellas run out this ignorant argument well how do you know we won't find this or that you have just lost your credibility. You let me know when you find it

We are not talking about gaps concerning your theory,we are talking gaping holes. Life by design definitely possesses more credibility. I said it once, I don't need to present the creator to you he has already done that. I don't need to prove God exist's all i have to do is prove design. Really it was not me it was many that have proved design I am just one who is not ignorant when it comes to this subject and I agree with the ones who say life just simply didn't come in to existence through naturalism.

I always think it is such a joke when they say life happened by accident. Even with our massive technology, we can't take amino acids and proteins and using microscopes and micromachines build a working cell. This is even with intelligent input!!! Yet, were are expected to believe that something we can't even reverse engineer just happened by chance and self assembled itself.

This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Our ability or inability to reproduce a living cell has nothing to do with how those cells were created in the first place.

Do you notice a trend ?you keep coming up with excuses why you believe as you do.

 

[Hollie]

Same can be said for your designer

Nature and rationality neither presume nor require supernaturalism or magic in contrast to the Christian creationist worldview replete with gawds, demons and tactics formulated to instill fear and ignorance.

Just empty words hollie.

A toothless rebuttal.

Why not examine the basic premise of your religion. It was put into place systems as a belief structures to either explain things that occur naturally but are not understood and designed to scare you into believing the way you do (e.g. the threat of eternal damnation and burning in hellfire for not believing) and the promise of rewards after you die if you do believe. You must acknowledge that other religions are wrong and so by doing a little simple arithmetic, everyone is more likely to be born into a religion that is false. And let's face it, religionists are almost exclusively of a particular religious belief for no other reason than that is the majority religion or their religion is the one they were born into. There's rarely any real thought put into it. It's a given that cultural biases, family associations and the truly oppressive scare tactics used by many of the larger religions is the one draw they have to keep their adherents.

Faith, (the science-hating, literalist view embracing, "gawds did it" screaming), kind of faith is, at least to me, nothing more or less than an excuse to assert belief in something without having to go through the tiresome effort of supporting what you claim to believe. There's absolutely no need for faith. It doesn't offer you any knowledge -- we already have a word for what offers you knowledge, and that's reason. Faith doesn't "explain" anything -- it doesn't describe any details about anything that gives you more information before you employed faith than you did after you employed it, and in fact, faith by definition stops you from pursuing evidence of reality since you have already concluded to believe in something without there being any standards of support necessary.

 

[Youwerecreated]

We don't have evidence of this period of history. If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You are the one making an argument from ignorance, not us. Stop trying to switch the burden of proof. You are the worst! And UR...

That is exactly right and why your side should back off being so arrogant. I am not the one arguing from the stand point of ignorance that would be you. I can and did provide evidence for what I believe. Anytime you fellas run out this ignorant argument well how do you know we won't find this or that you have just lost your credibility. You let me know when you find it

We are not talking about gaps concerning your theory,we are talking gaping holes. Life by design definitely possesses more credibility. I said it once, I don't need to present the creator to you he has already done that. I don't need to prove God exist's all i have to do is prove design. Really it was not me it was many that have proved design I am just one who is not ignorant when it comes to this subject and I agree with the ones who say life just simply didn't come in to existence through naturalism.

You just put your foot in your mouth. You did not provide any evidence for you claims about there being a designer. I realize that what you see if evidence of your own claims, but this is not evidence to anyone else. It is mere interpretation by your part, and confirmation bias. For the last time, scientists don't claim to know how life came about. So, i'm not sure what you are babbling about. On the other hand, YOU DO CLAIM to know how life came about, even though we are all ignorant to how it happened. Hence, a fucking ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE.

Stop trying to fend off this accusation with your silly appeals to ridicule. Your position is ripe with logical fallacy because you HAVE NO EVIDENCE. Therefore, it is your only option to employ logical fallacy after logical fallacy to try and convince yourself that your position is objectively valid when it isn't. What's laughable is how you haven't met your burden of proof with respect to any scientific claims about there being a designer. This is the arrogance of your side.

Really ? I presented design to you and you snub your nose at it. ok

 

[Youwerecreated]

That's a little rude.

Ha!! Now this is funny!! Ima mistakenly thought your new buddy was a Creationist. Since he isn't, you quickly came to his defense.

No, you're not bias!!!!

You are hilariously predictable. I never claimed to be non-bias. You seem to have some mis-placed expectation that I should, when you clearly are not. Hmmm... special pleading?

Then why do you make the claim you have not ruled out anything,meaning design when cornered ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

You are hilariously predictable. I never claimed to be non-bias.

Really?? So now you admit it. And your bias extends to all your opinions on so called science as well then.

Are you claiming to be non-bias? Is anyone non-bias??? That is some serious arrogance right there.

What is this double-standard you are putting up, you asshole? For some reason, I am expected to be totally objective, yet you are not held to the same standard? This is SPECIAL PLEADING. You are claiming I am an exemption from known human cognitive biases which we can not consciously control, but you, nor anyone else is. There is something wrong with you.

Can you claim to be non-bias? I hope not, because you are failing miserably.

I once was, that is why I now believe in creation but I am bias now.