Cringe discussion of DEI on The Chris Wallace Show

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

All 13% work?

LOL

All 13% don't have to be employed, but if Blacks make up 13% of the U.S. population our representation in the workforce should be close to 13% as well.

There are some workforces where white males make up the majority, such as at Boeing (I just posted the charts a few days ago). They have 70%+ workforce of white males if I recall correctly which is close to their representation of the U.S. population.

Do you think all 70% of the white population work, or better yet are both white & male?

 

[IM2]

This is why I don't understand what the actual goal is of many political tactics. My goal regarding race -- and coming from and married into mixed race families, this is important to me -- is that it no longer matters in everyday life.

The problem with your opinion is that races does matter in everyday life. And I have been in several long term interracial partnerships, so you ain't the only one and the fact that YOU are in a mixed family doesn't change the reality that race is still a severe problem.

And look at this Mac,

"That one lady who is "infuriated" is complaining about something the Left created. When a minority is included, there will always be a question as to why. THAT'S BECAUSE THE LEFT DEMANDED THE INCLUSION IN THE FIRST PLACE. Exactly what were they expecting when they dropped standards and made immutable characteristics like race and gender a higher priority than merit?

This is a great example of the crap that turns people off about the Left."

The left didn't create this, the right created it by excluding people based on immutable characteristics like race and gender instead of merit. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're repeating white racist stuff. You really need to go do some research on how race has been used to create the inequality you see today. You come from a very niave position Mac, you mean well, but we aren't at the point you think we are. Too many non whites start living comfortably in America then start talking Bill Cosby pound cake bs.

And your second sentence is exactly what white racists believe. Why should a minority be questioned Mac. Why is that assumed only for monorities when its whites who have a history of doing it?

 

[Mac1958]

The problem with your opinion is that races does matter in everyday life. And I have been in several long term interracial partnerships, so you ain't the only one and the fact that YOU are in a mixed family doesn't change the reality that race is still a severe problem.

And look at this Mac,

"That one lady who is "infuriated" is complaining about something the Left created. When a minority is included, there will always be a question as to why. THAT'S BECAUSE THE LEFT DEMANDED THE INCLUSION IN THE FIRST PLACE. Exactly what were they expecting when they dropped standards and made immutable characteristics like race and gender a higher priority than merit?

This is a great example of the crap that turns people off about the Left."

The left didn't create this, the right created it by excuding people based on immutable characteristics like race and gender instead of merit. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're repeating white racist stuff. You really need to go do some research on how race has been used to create the inequality you see today. You come from a very niave position Mac, you mean well, but we aren't at the point you think we are. Too many non whites start living confortably then start talking Bill Cosby pound cake bs.

Then keep doing what you're doing.

It's working JUST GREAT, right?

 

[Dragonlady]

I want to jump in on this.

I see two types of diversity, in general: Organic diversity and artificial (forced) diversity.

Organic diversity is wonderful. It's America. It gives us our edge over the rest of the world. It's the diversity that my (mixed race) children had growing up, where no one gives two shits about skin color in friends or family. I see a LOT of it in my children's generation. They just don't care. Awesome.

Then there is artificial (forced) diversity. You have to look at skin color. If person A has the preferred skin color and person B does not, you give person A the edge, and that includes lowering standards for person A if needed. And it will be enforced. And you'll be punished in some way if you stray from the rule -- professionally, socially, every possible way.

What do you honestly think is going to happen here? 2 things. EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED. Sustained periods of lowering standards are going to affect quality, and you will undoubtedly see frustration and resentment from people represented by person B build and build. This has been been building over DECADES. And any expression of that resentment ALSO leads to attacks and punishment. It only gets worse.

Then along comes some shameless, mentally ill celebrity billionaire who gives a voice and validation to those decades of building resentment and frustration and lets it all out. Frees it. Pushes it. And the shit hits the fan.

This is what has played out. It could NOT be more clear to me, and I sure as hell seen it affect my mixed race family and people I know.

The assumption is always that standards are being lowered to accommodate minorities which is a fallacy. Just the assumption that this was being done, is racist. Those who are first in the door are always MORE qualified than the ones on the inside, because they've been waiting the longest.

Justice Brown Jackson is yet another example. 12 years on the bench - the MOST qualified justice appointed to the SC in decades, and yet, Republicans call her "unqualified" simply because Biden said he was appointing a black woman.

Everyone who taught Barrack Obama or worked with him in Chicago, called him "exceptional", and yet Republicans still call him the "affirmative action" President, and said he only got into Harvard because of AA, even though he was elected President of the Harvard Review, and graduated cum laude.

When Trudeau appointed a cabinet that was 50% women, there were howls of outrage at all of the "unqualified women" being given cabinet jobs - something you never hear about men being given a job. When white men were given most of the cabinet jobs, there were no howls about all of the qualified men who were excluded.[

 

[Mac1958]

The assumption is always that standards are being lowered to accommodate minorities which is a fallacy. Just the assumption that this was being done, is racist. Those who are first in the door are always MORE qualified than the ones on the inside, because they've been waiting the longest.

Justice Brown Jackson is yet another example. 12 years on the bench - the MOST qualified justice appointed to the SC in decades, and yet, Republicans call her "unqualified" simply because Biden said he was appointing a black woman.

Everyone who taught Barrack Obama or worked with him in Chicago, called him "exceptional", and yet Republicans still call him the "affirmative action" President, and said he only got into Harvard because of AA, even though he was elected President of the Harvard Review, and graduated cum laude.

When Trudeau appointed a cabinet that was 50% women, there were howls of outrage at all of the "unqualified women" being given cabinet jobs - something you never hear about men being given a job. When white men were given most of the cabinet jobs, there were no howls about all of the qualified men who were excluded.[

Pointing out the wrongs and hypocrisy of the other end of this is easy pickins. For me, too. The Right has let this continue, and by doing so, has enabled it. That's why I think that those who enable right wing racism may be more destructive overall than the mouth-breathing racists themselves. Just like the GQP politicians and Trump. Their non-action only enables him and makes his effects worse.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

See, exactly what I said, that's what you were taught, and you have a chip on your shoulder, a very heavy one that you will carry until the day you die. I actually pity you. I have met many, many successful people of all colors and backgrounds and the one thing that they all have in common, especially people of color, is that they don't carry hate and resentment around 24/7, they aren't bitter, they have a positive outlook on life, were taught they could be anything and do anything, and they have. It's quite refreshing compared to someone like you who blames everyone but yourself for your failures in life. It's like night and day, you'll never see it or understand it, that's why I pity you.

No IM2 was not taught this. Unless I'm mistaken he learned about the preferential laws, policies, treatises, etc. granted to the white race by our government that left Black Americans out through self study of American as well as Black American history. Things like the social safety net social security for one, how the Black veterans returning from WWII were excluded from the GI bill that allowed white veterans to buy homes and go to school for free, how whites received free land via the Homestead Act, etc.

I've learned most of the above due to the information that IM2 posts on this board as well as much more. Which is part of the reason I've always been baffled as to why none of you ever offering opposing viewpoints with your own documentation of American history/archives.

How do you measure success? IM2 doesn't need anything from you nor is he bitter or an ass kisser which is why you all get all pissy and everything with him because he tells it like it is and you can either take it and him or leave it.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Like I said.

Zero self awareness.

For some completely unfathomable reason Lisa wants to act like being white isn't an advantage and instead wants to only focus on being Jewish not realizing that being white trumps being Jewish when it comes to privileges in the U.S.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Affirmative Action discriminates against white people by hiring and promoting minorities who are considered less qualified

Why is it so important that you believe this falsehood? You've been shown repeatedly that this is not true.

 

[Hector12]

If Floyd had been White, you would have never heard of him because his case was exploited by the racist demagogue Democrats to help elect Joe Biden.

The George Floyd riots did not "help elect Joe Biden." They very nearly won the election for Trump. The black ghetto riots that happened from 1964 to 1968 ended the New Deal Coalition that had dominated the United States since 1933 and elected Richard Nixon.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

[snipped]

According to every post you've made when it comes to diversity, you ALWAYS associate diversity with LOWERING STANDARDS.

I always thought I couldn't simply be as good as a white male, I had to be demonstrably "better" - higher test scores, more certifications, a more thorough understanding of my development languages, more innovative coding projects, etc.

Your statement implies, I didn't have to be better at anything, that due to diversity hiring I could get any job I wanted as long as the hiring manager wanted a diversity candidate.

I hasn't worked out that way so at least in my case, you're wrong and I'm sure you're wrong in the cases of a lot of my family members and colleagues who happen to be female and/or minorities.

 

[Hector12]

Why is it so important that you believe this falsehood? You've been shown repeatedly that this is not true.

But it is true. The average black IQ is 85. The average white IQ is 100. It is not possible to achieve equity without advancing blacks to positions where they obviously lack the intelligence to perform adequately. I have had to work with black beneficiaries of affirmative action. Their incompetence was obvious to everyone.

 

[Mac1958]

According to every post you've made when it comes to diversity, you ALWAYS associate diversity with LOWERING STANDARDS.

I always thought I couldn't simply be as good as a white male, I had to be demonstrably "better" - higher test scores, more certifications, a more thorough understanding of my development languages, more innovative coding projects, etc.

Your statement implies, I didn't have to be better at anything, that due to diversity hiring I could get any job I wanted as long as the hiring manager wanted a diversity candidate.

I hasn't worked out that way so at least in my case, you're wrong and I'm sure you're wrong in the cases of a lot of my family members and colleagues who happen to be female and/or minorities.

We agree there is a problem.

I just think it's time for a new solution. Before it's too late.

 

[IM2]

I agree completely. The problem comes from white resentment of racial equality. That's my point. Not always the IDEA of racial equality, not always the PURPOSE of racial equality, but the way it has been approached. The way it has been implemented. The way it has been enforced. Human nature is playing out predictably, and that resentment is now threatening the very existence of our democracy.

The Left has chosen to COMPLETELY ignore this. And now we have Trumpism. Hey, great job there.

Trumpsters tell me they want to "Make America Great Again". Hey, fantastic. Let's do that! Let's really improve things. I just don't like the way they go about doing it. I don't like the way they want to force it. I don't like their tactics, because I don't think they'll work. I don't like their complete lack of curiosity or willingness to consider other ideas and strategies. I look at results and I can see that I'm correct.

Mac,

What does not seem to register with your pandering ass is that NO ONE should have to consider white resentment of racial equality. F them. Dragonlady explained things to you and I have told you from the beginning that trumpism has little to do with this.

So how was this supposed to be enforced to please whitey so he wouldn't get upset Mac? Because this equality was supposed to have started conce the Emancipation Proclamation was signed.. But I guess that was implemented and enforced wrong too because we got Jim Crow.

The only thing Trumpsters want is to make America the place where white men rule and where white men get everything. You haven't been correct about anything because you start ioff with a false premise. Your entire argument is about how we should not piss of the whites on the right. That we should only demand equality in ways that won't make them mad. You never consider how that creates resentment on our side and it's time that began to get considered. So if some right wing white racists has a problem with DEI, f him. This is the United States of America where everybody is supposed to be equal and until that happens we are going to fight. So you go stand on the sideline if the battle is too tough for you. Because I'm like this:

“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”

Mac, I don't know where you came here from but I descend from people who survived being stuck in bowels of ships in urine and feces. People who survived seasoning camps and slavery. My parents were born and raised to the midst of Jim Crow. My mother had to watch her sister get spit on by a white girl because she didn't get off the sidewalk when whites walked by. My father was a child sharecropper who experienced the company store,, signed up and fought in WW2, took a bullet for this country in France fighting to stop the Germans from erasing people like Lisa that injured him for life, and upon his return was denied the GI Bill that has allowed these trump punks to live in the comfort they have today.

I come from seeing older blacks fight for a better future for me that they knew they themselves would never see, so if you think I give the first good goobly damn about some punk --- white racists resentment of racial equality and how it was enforced, you got me twisted pod nuh. So take you apppeasment --- on junior because you're weak.

 

[IM2]

We agree there is a problem.

I just think it's time for a new solution. Before it's too late.

The old solution was never properly followed.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You haven't heard anything from me on that because I haven't said anything on that.

One of these days, I will be criticized here (by both ends) for things I actually SAY.

I don't assign race to any of what you said. That's you doing it. How do you know the race of the person who screwed up with the airplane? Or the gender? I sure as hell don't, and I know the screwup could have happened in any number of ways.

In all honestly, all I have is circumstantial evidence that a diversity hire was not responsible for these issues however
1. I am fairly certain that white males at a major airplane production facility like Boeing have not progressed enough to turn over the engineering design of their new aircraft that they planned on beating out Airbus with to a group
of Black or female engineers. They're not that evolved yet
2. HAD there been a Black or female engineer involved in the "screw-up" or the redesign I'm sure that would have
been called out by now as having some connection to "diveristy hiring"
3. I worked in that plant

Those two things should be enough of a start but something that I HAVEN'T seen reported is that the pilot who was communicating with the tower and declared the emergency and landed the plane was female. I don't know if she was the first officer or the captain but you could tell by her voice that she was a white female. No kudos or anything for the women flight crew who professionally and safely got the plane back on the ground with everyone onboard alive. I supposed they were "just doing their job" as they were supposed to huh?

 

[Hector12]

No Mac you're doing it again. When you say "... if we drop standards for any reason, we're hurting ourselves..." you're falsely stating as fact that it is a foregone conclusion that including minorities or women MEANS a lowering of standard, that you're accommodating individuals who don't quite meet the same standards or qualifications as the status quo who are white males.

Because of the enormous race gap in intelligence and achievement, achieving racial equality in rewards always requires dropping standards for blacks.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Equality of results can only be achieved by ignoring the many ways most Negroes are inferior.

And yet you have offered up not a scintilla of proof of your superiority. EVER.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Because of the enormous race gap in intelligence and achievement, achieving racial equality in rewards always requires dropping standards for blacks.

Yet you can't compete with us. What's your problem?

 

[Hector12]

No, DTMB is an Asian and what he posted was some white racist garbage.. He's been so affected by internalized racism that he ignores the fact the DEI includes Asians.

As for you and those like you, your opinions relative to this matter shows a dishonesty that is nothing less than evil.

East Asians have higher average incomes than whites because they usually perform better.

 

[Hector12]

And yet you have offered up not a scintilla of proof of your superiority. EVER.

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SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: www.collegeboard.com

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: www.act.org

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

SAT and ACT Scores broken down by Race/Ethnicity.

www.blackexcel.org