Cringe discussion of DEI on The Chris Wallace Show

[IM2]

Apparently the 2 biggest race hustlers on this board listened to his every word.

You can quit lying about not listening to Limbaugh.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Nope. I'm saying that merit is either the top priority or it is not. Skin color irrelevant. And if we drop standards for any reason, we're hurting ourselves. When we maintain standards, we all end up winning.

Whether it's an individual, a couple, a family, a business, or a country. Maintain standards, things will go better in the long run. Skin color irrelevant. I really don't think that's a crazy or asinine notion.

So the question to me is, how we make a transition back to that sociological environment. The answer is cultural in nature, in my opinion.

That's it. Period.

Does your argument assume that merit was exchanged for diversity and therefore diverse candidates have less merit just by simply being diverse?

If so, that is exactly the type of bias that undermines diverse candidates.

 

[IM2]

Your bullshit ”case for inclusion” lost all merit when this white nation elected a Kenyan to the highest office….TWICE!

IM2

No Kenyan was ever elected to the highest office in this nation. And for you to make this claim still shows that things such as DEI are necessary.

 

[IM2]

Do you see this shit that these lefties spew, they don't want to 'allow' you to raise or educate your children as you see fit, they think they know better than you do what is best for your children. They state it every day in bullshit ways just like this, this is what they really want, total control over your life and the lives of your family. They mean what they say, don't ever believe otherwise.

Stop projecting right winger.

 

[OldFlame]

You can quit lying about not listening to Limbaugh.

I have never listened to Limbaugh, so sorry to disappoint you.

What's even more hilarious is that you apparently did.

 

[IM2]

Unbelievable.
Equality is like a 100 meter dash....everyone begins equally at the starting point, and everyone
begins equally at the sound of the starting gun. That doesn't equate to everyone finishes with the same time.

IM2 is such an idiot, he can't even comprehend equality.

You are the idiot. I know what equality means and it damn sure doesn't mean that a 72 year old born during Jim Crow white bigot who started wiith a 100 yard lead gets to determine how to describe equality.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No Mac you're doing it again. When you say "... if we drop standards for any reason, we're hurting ourselves..." you're falsely stating as fact that it is a foregone conclusion that including minorities or women MEANS a lowering of standard, that you're accommodating individuals who don't quite meet the same standards or qualifications as the status quo who are white males.

White males are not the status quo because they are ALL extraordinary individuals, they are the status quo because they legislated themselves into the top position of authority when our country was founded - remember, only white land-owning adult males could participate in the election process. They made the laws and they enforced the laws and the laws that they created & enforced gave preference to whites, placing white males at the top of the power structure. It took until 1920 and the passage of the 19th amendment to the U.S. Constitution before white women obtained the right to vote (all women did).

There is no correlation to pure ability or lack thereof when it comes to women and minorities members of society, however if you don't allow them the same opportunities to obtain an education, to attend training courses or take flight instructions, just as an example, this then allows the more disingenuous members of society to turn around and claim that they are simply not qualified for their jobs and standards allegedly have to be lowered for them.

Then you have the other situation where the woman and/or minority candidates are equally or more qualified than the status quo but no one would ever believe that because of the constant false refrain touted that affirmative action allows unqualified Black people to be employed at the expense of much more qualified whites (they're always described as being "much more qualified"). Even when this is not the case, especially when you consider that no company in its right mind wants to hire, then spend the time & money to train an employee who simply doesn't possess the ability to do the job, everyone will still believe that the candidate is unqualified to do the job and that they only got the job due to affirmative action and that it was not based on merit.

I'm not sure if you're even aware of the correlations you're stating but you are doing so. Read what you wrote again.


th

This is why the implicit, unconscious biases are the most detrimental in society. People may not even be aware they are engaging in bias at all.

 

[IM2]

I have never listened to Limbaugh, so sorry to disappoint you.

What's even more hilarious is that you apparently did.

No, I really haven't but when a person uses terms I heard him say during interviews, it kinda gives you away.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You hit on the actual, practical issue here -- resentment -- and I think the Left underestimates its profound importance.

I see two elements at play from the Right's perspective. First, there is the old fashioned, mouth breathing, buttcrack scratching, ignorant, bigoted, manipulated, paranoid racism that you and I goddamn well both know still exists. We certainly see plenty of it on this board, and we're both called evil Hitler commies for pointing it out. And to me, even worse is the way it's denied and enabled by so many on the Right.

But there is another element here that I think is far more reasonable. There is a resentment that builds over time when one group is singled out for different treatment, i.e., we're going to provide an advantage to this person over that because of the color of their skin. A modern American is not responsible for our sins of the past, yet they have to pay the price for them. As a result, the resentment builds and builds and builds. And guess what? Trump wins. Trump wins.

Whenever I get into this conversation, I'm reminded of a great skit Eddie Murphy did on SNL, below. In the skit, he disguises himself as a white person and discovers how wonderful and glorious and easy life is when you're white, and how people just give you goodies and money for no reason.

This is why I don't understand what the actual goal is of many political tactics. My goal regarding race -- and coming from and married into mixed race families, this is important to me -- is that it no longer matters in everyday life. That racial tensions become a thing of the past, and not something that we keep exacerbating. It seems to me that the ends of this argument don't share that goal.

What happens to all the folks left out or cast aside while we wait for the fragile white folks to not be so offended?

People need to grow up.

 

[Mac1958]

Does your argument assume that merit was exchanged for diversity and therefore diverse candidates have less merit just by simply being diverse?

If so, that is exactly the type of bias that undermines diverse candidates.

Of course not.

At some point we have to stop using race and/or gender as a data point, a criteria, a test, and just choose whomever the "chooser" thinks is THE BEST available person for the slot, whatever that is.

When you lower standards you lower quality. When you lower standards over a elongated period of time, the decrease in quality accelerates. I don't think that's a crazy philosophy.

Further, when you lower standards, you take away the incentive to improve, and you're slowing that individual's potential growth. When you make excuses for that person and keep standards low, you are hurting them and those around them. You enable and validate their mediocrity. Again, I don't think that's a crazy philosophy.

I can't think of a better example of this than the last occupant of the White House.

 

[Mac1958]

What happens to all the folks left out or cast aside while we wait for the fragile white folks to not be so offended?

People need to grow up.

I think that our race issue would improve dramatically if both ends would stop pointing at the other and hold their own side accountable.

The behaviors of each only confirm and validate the arguments of the other. They feed each other.

 

[IM2]

Of course not.

At some point we have to stop using race and/or gender as a data point, a criteria, a test, and just choose whomever the "chooser" thinks is THE BEST available person for the slot, whatever that is.

When you lower standards you lower quality. When you lower standards over a elongated period of time, the decrease in quality accelerates. I don't think that's a crazy philosophy.

Further, when you lower standards, you take away the incentive to improve, and you're slowing that individual's potential growth. When you make excuses for that person and keep standards low, you are hurting them and those around them. You enable and validate their mediocrity. Again, I don't think that's a crazy philosophy.

I can't think of a better example of this than the last occupant of the White House.

Mac,

You really need to stop and think before you post this kind of historically blind ludicrous junk.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac,

You really need to stop and think before you post this kind of historically blind ludicrous junk.

I think about it quite a bit. So we disagree. Not much I can do about that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That’s not what he said. He said that merit should be the top priority - IOW, hire the most qualified for the job. Why would you assume that means that females or minorities are automatically less qualified for any and all jobs?

It is clear that, IN THIS INSTANCE, Gay was hired because Harvard decided that being a black female (and obviously a liberal) was the top priority, and then, of that group, she was the best. The problem is that Harvard limited themselves to 6% of the population in making their decision.

Wow!
Your first paragraph scolds the poster for assuming that females and minorities are less qualified and that only merit matters.
Something she didn’t do by the way.

Then in your second you literally go on a rant about how this woman of color was not hired on her merits but was hired simply to check a box. Something you couldn’t possibly know by the way.

Could you be any less self aware?

 

[BrokeLoser]

No Mac you're doing it again. When you say "... if we drop standards for any reason, we're hurting ourselves..." you're falsely stating as fact that it is a foregone conclusion that including minorities or women MEANS a lowering of standard, that you're accommodating individuals who don't quite meet the same standards or qualifications as the status quo who are white males.

White males are not the status quo because they are ALL extraordinary individuals, they are the status quo because they legislated themselves into the top position of authority when our country was founded - remember, only white land-owning adult males could participate in the election process. They made the laws and they enforced the laws and the laws that they created & enforced gave preference to whites, placing white males at the top of the power structure. It took until 1920 and the passage of the 19th amendment to the U.S. Constitution before white women obtained the right to vote (all women did).

There is no correlation to pure ability or lack thereof when it comes to women and minorities members of society, however if you don't allow them the same opportunities to obtain an education, to attend training courses or take flight instructions, just as an example, this then allows the more disingenuous members of society to turn around and claim that they are simply not qualified for their jobs and standards allegedly have to be lowered for them.

Then you have the other situation where the woman and/or minority candidates are equally or more qualified than the status quo but no one would ever believe that because of the constant false refrain touted that affirmative action allows unqualified Black people to be employed at the expense of much more qualified whites (they're always described as being "much more qualified"). Even when this is not the case, especially when you consider that no company in its right mind wants to hire, then spend the time & money to train an employee who simply doesn't possess the ability to do the job, everyone will still believe that the candidate is unqualified to do the job and that they only got the job due to affirmative action and that it was not based on merit.

I'm not sure if you're even aware of the correlations you're stating but you are doing so. Read what you wrote again.


th

Lots of mumbo-jumbo there….How do you suppose newly arrived East Indians and Asians are able to run right past Blacks and Mexicans on the socioeconomic scale?
Do you really believe we are all ‘equal’?

 

[IM2]

I think that our race issue would improve dramatically if both ends would stop pointing at the other and hold their own side accountable.

The behaviors of each only confirm and validate the arguments of the other. They feed each other.

No mac, there is only 1 side to be held accountable. Blacks have done everything required and STILL face the type of racism you see here. Accomodation does not work. The both sides are bad argument does not apply to this situation no matter how much you try rationalizing.

 

[IM2]

Lots of mumbo-jumbo there….How do you suppose newly arrived East Indians and Asians are able to run right past Blacks and Mexicans on the socioeconomic scale?
Do you really believe we are all ‘equal’?

Newsvine posted fact. She's very knowledgeble , far moreso than you on this topic. Because you don't have a clue

The answer to your question is: The H1B Visa program.

And East Asians(India) are the only group of Asians that surpass.. Take their incomes out and Asin median income drops dramatically. There are groups of Asians living in America tofay in poverty. But in standard white racist fashion all you need is one example and you broadbrush, but you don't want that done to whites.

 

[Meister]

No, DTMB is an Asian and what he posted was some white racist garbage.. He's been so affected by internalized racism that he ignores the fact the DEI includes Asians.

As for you and those like you, your opinions relative to this matter shows a dishonesty that is nothing less than evil.

Like I said, you can't comprehend. IM2. Your racism and hatred blind any common sense to the subject.
You didn't have to bring up Asian in your quote, it added nothing to the conversation. If I referred to you
as Black IM2, or African American IM2 you would call me a racist. In fact you even responded in a thread that's
centered around the term African American.....and took offense to it.
What's wrong with YOU???

 

[IM2]

Mac,

"But there is another element here that I think is far more reasonable. There is a resentment that builds over time when one group is singled out for different treatment, i.e., we're going to provide an advantage to this person over that because of the color of their skin. A modern American is not responsible for our sins of the past, yet they have to pay the price for them. As a result, the resentment builds and builds and builds. And guess what? Trump wins. Trump wins."

You fell for white victimhood and the disingenuous whining that goes with it. What advantage was given to people because of their skin color? Name it, because that is not what AA was. If white racism exists today, and it does, this means whites today are committing the exact same sin they committed in the past.. There is never anything reasonable about dishonesty. Sometimes in life there is just the reality that one side is wrong and that no compromise will be made to alllow a wrong to continue.

 

[Meister]

You are the idiot. I know what equality means and it damn sure doesn't mean that a 72 year old born during Jim Crow white bigot who started wiith a 100 yard lead gets to determine how to describe equality.

Do you even read what you post??
Just remember, if you're lucky, and I say if you're lucky, you may live to 72.
You cannot show one example of me being a Jim Crow bigot, or any kind of racist, yet here you are, spewing your
ignorance for all to read.
That is just priceless.

Carry on, young man, don't stop now.