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as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his
There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.
so he did , nothing wrong. in that case. so lets get all the whiny anti god crybabies who are so offended at the mention of his name to just move along. the school told him there would be no more prayer at graduation. he was just exercising his right to pray. time to move on. the schools action prompted his action. and that's how it goes.
as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his
There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.
How is a public prayer "imposing" religion upon anyone?
Pssst...it's not.
koshergrl cannot comprehended the logic of your comment, Derideo_Te.
There are sensible religionists and some who are not. She is in the latter category.
There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.
so he did , nothing wrong. in that case. so lets get all the whiny anti god crybabies who are so offended at the mention of his name to just move along. the school told him there would be no more prayer at graduation. he was just exercising his right to pray. time to move on. the schools action prompted his action. and that's how it goes.
If you had read the earlier posts by Jake, Avg_Joe and yours truly you would know that was where we all were right from the outset on this issue. Your puerile mischaracterization merely reflects upon your own lack of comprehension as to where Atheists stand when it comes to rights. However you do get credit for being quick on the uptake. Have a nice day.
what people who try to step on other peoples rights have to realize, that eventually the people pushed are going to start pushing back. and that is what you are seeing here. what you try to suppress will be even more in your face. look what you gun grab attempts did. gun ownership is up. people are buying up every piece of ammunition available, every reloading supply. all you are achieving is the exact opposite of what you want. and what will really add fuel to the fire is a high profile story like this getting major response. it becomes a rallying point.
So...what Spoonman just admitted is that this was about "pushing back".....not sincere prayer at all. Is that the purpose of prayer for christians these days? For some, it appears to be so.
as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his
koshergrl cannot comprehended the logic of your comment, Derideo_Te.
There are sensible religionists and some who are not. She is in the latter category.
There is no government "right" to impose any specific religion. His personal rights were not being infringed. You are conflating two entirely different things here.
How is a public prayer "imposing" religion upon anyone?
Pssst...it's not.
The 1st Amendment specifically prohibits government employees from endorsing any religion. This means that a principal/teacher/coach leading a prayer in a public school facility would be endorsing religion.
So...what Spoonman just admitted is that this was about "pushing back".....not sincere prayer at all. Is that the purpose of prayer for christians these days? For some, it appears to be so.
as long as you are wiling to admit that your pushing back against anti homosexuality is not sincere at all. I mean why do you push back? because someone is trying to crush your rights? your plight is no different then his
Wait......what?
For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.
In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.
And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.
Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.
For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.
In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.
And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.
(My bold)
Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.
The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.
The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.
If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.
There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.
Spoonman, that is what Derideo_Te is pointing out. Nothing against the law occurred. The kid has every right to do as he did. I am a believer, others are not, and yet we agree the kid did fine. And anyone who wants to complain has that right as well.
Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.
In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.
And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.
(My bold)
Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.
The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.
The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.
If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.
There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.
Not a bad point, he did prove himself to be untrustworthy.For the life of me, I can't figure out whether or not you think prayer is appropriate in this context. I think you're saying it's the job of the school board to strong-arm people who dare to openly pray when they are on public property.
In which case, you're full of shit. No, the school board is not an enforcement committee charged with racing up on the stage and hustling off radical prayers to the back.
And it's perfectly appropriate for a child graduating from a public school to lead those who wish to join in, in a solemn prayer. It's a shame they aren't allowed to just close with a prayer, and it's a shame that the mere mention of "God" brings the roof crashing down and signals the end of that person's moment on stage...if we were true to the Constitution, the valedictorian would be able to say their speech and lead in prayer and there would be no uproar at all.
(My bold)
Prayer may be appropriate, I didn't see in the coverage if there was an invocation, by a member of the clergy. I would expect there would have been, it being fairly common practice.
The school board needed to act, because it wasn't merely public property. It was during graduation, in the valedictorian's speech. The admin had cleared the valedictorian's speech - which he made a nice display of trashing & then proceeded to testify & pray (I missed if he led the prayer - did the public act as a congregation, then?) & of course the school board is an enforcement agency - school districts are cases of special government, their oath of office is to the state government, not to the local populace, however constituted. The school board is required to balance the budget, ensure that licensed teachers are hired, the curriculum is taught, attendance is accurate & a host of responsibilities. One of which is to make sure the corporation does not needlessly embroil itself in no-win litigation.
The prayer did not mark the end of the valedictorian's moment, his entire speech marked that he'd broken his word, departed his script, & was flouting the framework of law that a school district operates under. The US Constitution, as I recall, doesn't even mention God by name - the rubric is something like Nature's Creator.
If the valedictorian wanted prayer, he could have arranged something with his minister or pastor, a nice observance @ church, invite all his classmates & parents & family, where of course, he could testify & pray until the cows came home - & everyone would have understood. What he did was take the podium under false pretenses & hijack the proceedings.
There are consequences for that, if any of the students/parents care to pursue them. & the school corporation is on the hook, for failling to exercise their mandated control of proceedings under their nominal auspices.
You would applaude, ravtard, since he didn't make a point at all, except that he views the school board as some sort of policing group, which is ludicrous at best.
I would like to see a link that shows that it is the duty of the school board to police school ceremonies, and halt any un-approved speech or behavior.
