Current law and police work catch guys selling illegal guns in Chicago, no new laws needed...

[OnePercenter]

Here you go.....we already have all the laws we need to catch people selling illegal guns....we don't need to register guns, we don't need to have universal background checks......we can already catch people who are selling guns for profit to criminals.......

Try to understand that, anti gunners.....




Five indicted in Michigan to Chicago straw purchasing scheme

Five men have been indicted in a straw purchasing scheme that brought at least nine handguns from Michigan to Chicago, the U.S. Attorney’s Office announced Tuesday.

The indictment alleges Michigan residents Cornelius Battle and Dalrick Drain bought guns from licensed dealers in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and then sold them to Chicago resident Nathaniel McElroy for higher prices. Battle and Drain allegedly falsified information on the required paperwork, saying they were buying the guns for themselves.

So instead of being convicted of a State crime, they'll be convicted of federal crimes which carry much longer sentences.

Then libtards will let them go.

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Factually incorrect, as usual.

 

[OnePercenter]

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Why? The gun is stolen. You didn't use the gun, the gun was in your home....someone broke in, took the gun and used it, how is that in any way your fault?

What part of 'secure your gun' don't you understand? This is why there should be a 'idiot clause' in gun sales........

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

You poor, deluded fool. News flash: it is not at all difficult to get into most gun safes! Grab the whole thing, throw it in a truck, haul it home, and simply cut it open at my leisure. Most gun safes are more secure than a high-end file cabinet...but not by much. A truly SECURE safe costs as much as a new car.

You believe that a residential burglar is as sophisticated as that and you call me 'deluded?'

How many guns that were secured in a safe were stolen last year in the US?

How many guns that were secured in a safe were used by kids that shot themselves or others last year in the US?

Quit making excuses for the brain dead gun owners and start taking responsibility.

 

[OnePercenter]

Here you go.....we already have all the laws we need to catch people selling illegal guns....we don't need to register guns, we don't need to have universal background checks......we can already catch people who are selling guns for profit to criminals.......

Try to understand that, anti gunners.....




Five indicted in Michigan to Chicago straw purchasing scheme

Five men have been indicted in a straw purchasing scheme that brought at least nine handguns from Michigan to Chicago, the U.S. Attorney’s Office announced Tuesday.

The indictment alleges Michigan residents Cornelius Battle and Dalrick Drain bought guns from licensed dealers in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and then sold them to Chicago resident Nathaniel McElroy for higher prices. Battle and Drain allegedly falsified information on the required paperwork, saying they were buying the guns for themselves.

So instead of being convicted of a State crime, they'll be convicted of federal crimes which carry much longer sentences.

Then libtards will let them go.

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

So tell me you think the piece of shit criminal who breaks into a home and steals a gun is not responsible for the crime but the gun owner who committed no crime is responsible?

If the gun owner didn't take reasonable actions to secure their weapon....YES.

 

[OnePercenter]

What part of 'secure your gun' don't you understand? This is why there should be a 'idiot clause' in gun sales........

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

And if they want our guns they will either take your safes or break into them...so....you will then be responsible...right? moron

How do you take a safe that is secured. Break into a biometric safe......good luck! In either case you've secured the weapon. (idiot clause)

Hack through the side with a fire axe, or take a panel off with a Sawzall.

If "secured", hook a 6-ton tow strap to it, hook the other end to the hitch on the truck, and give it a yank.

You've been watching too many movies!

 

[Cosmos]

Yes, those were what is known as straw purchasers. Not the same as individual sellers who can legally sell their guns to anybody without any background check, paperwork, or records of any kind. They aren't even required to ask the purchaser's name.

And of course you have no idea what you are talking about with this issue.....the criminal buying the gun....can already be arrested for buying the gun....using current laws and current police work. Selling private property is not a crime.....you want to make it a crime. The anti gun leadership want to use universal background checks to get universal gun registration...they could give a rats ass about criminals getting guns from private sellers....all they want is to get universal background checks so that they can then demand universal gun registration...you can't have universal background checks without registering all guns...other wise you won't know who originally had the gun.

And criminals will still get guns even if you mandated a background check for private sales......these guys...they went to a licensed gun dealer....filled out the paperwork, went through the background check, the gun store kept records of the sale....

And the licensed gun dealer even asked them their names......and they even told the dealer their names....

And they took those legally purchased guns, having gone through all of your hoops....and sold the guns to felons......

Universal background checks will be passed by the same people because they can pass background checks....criminals will use those people to buy their guns and if they want a gun a private seller has, they will use friends and family and other straw buyers who can already pass background checks...making your post silly and pointless....

Who wants people to stop selling private property? I just want to keep people who can't legally buy guns from buying guns. Universal background checks will help with that.

Ok. So how are you going to entice the criminals to get a background check? Not sure how that part of your plan works, exactly.

 

[OnePercenter]

What part of 'secure your gun' don't you understand? This is why there should be a 'idiot clause' in gun sales........

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

And if they want our guns they will either take your safes or break into them...so....you will then be responsible...right? moron

How do you take a safe that is secured. Break into a biometric safe......good luck! In either case you've secured the weapon. (idiot clause)

You do know that most safes available to the average person can be drilled into don't you?

You think that just because it has a fingerprint scanner on it that it cant be forced open?

A residential burglar is going to take the time and make the noise to do such a thing? Really?

 

[OnePercenter]

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

And if they want our guns they will either take your safes or break into them...so....you will then be responsible...right? moron

How do you take a safe that is secured. Break into a biometric safe......good luck! In either case you've secured the weapon. (idiot clause)

You do know that most safes available to the average person can be drilled into don't you?

You think that just because it has a fingerprint scanner on it that it cant be forced open?

certain models can be opened with a magnet

Which ones?

 

[OnePercenter]

Yes, those were what is known as straw purchasers. Not the same as individual sellers who can legally sell their guns to anybody without any background check, paperwork, or records of any kind. They aren't even required to ask the purchaser's name.

And of course you have no idea what you are talking about with this issue.....the criminal buying the gun....can already be arrested for buying the gun....using current laws and current police work. Selling private property is not a crime.....you want to make it a crime. The anti gun leadership want to use universal background checks to get universal gun registration...they could give a rats ass about criminals getting guns from private sellers....all they want is to get universal background checks so that they can then demand universal gun registration...you can't have universal background checks without registering all guns...other wise you won't know who originally had the gun.

And criminals will still get guns even if you mandated a background check for private sales......these guys...they went to a licensed gun dealer....filled out the paperwork, went through the background check, the gun store kept records of the sale....

And the licensed gun dealer even asked them their names......and they even told the dealer their names....

And they took those legally purchased guns, having gone through all of your hoops....and sold the guns to felons......

Universal background checks will be passed by the same people because they can pass background checks....criminals will use those people to buy their guns and if they want a gun a private seller has, they will use friends and family and other straw buyers who can already pass background checks...making your post silly and pointless....

Who wants people to stop selling private property? I just want to keep people who can't legally buy guns from buying guns. Universal background checks will help with that.

How, EXACTLY, do you want that enforced? Be specific.

Lots of things without a 100% failsafe enforcement ability. Wiring and plumbing in a house are supposed to meet certain codes. There is no way to tell if a home owner did his own sub standard work and didn't bother requesting an inspection unless there is some problem that brings the substandard work to light at a later date. Even something as ubiquitous as having a license to drive a car can't be 100% failsafe. The cop doesn't know if you have a license to drive unless he has some reason to pull you over and check. Again, a hefty fine, but that is also after the fact. Honest sellers will do background checks, but some small number of sellers won't, and that small number won't be known unless something happens later to bring it to light. At that point, there are hefty fines, so most don't want to take a chance, and will do it properly. How are universal background checks any different? Catch a seller selling without a background check, give them a hefty fine, or some other appropriate punishment.

Nope....guns are private property.....we have a right to sell our own property in this country, comrade. Punish the actual criminal who buys the gun illegally, that is how you actually make a difference, lock them up for 30 years. As this thread shows......

They caught the actual illegal gun seller without the background check doing anything since he passed the background check....and still sold the gun to a criminal...

The first post of this thread shows your idea doesn't work...at all.....

The guy who sold the gun to the criminal...passed the current FEDERAL background check....he would pass any future private sale background check...so you whole point doesn't mean anything since it has been shown, here in this thread, that it is unnecessary to catch people intentionally selling guns to criminals.....

These guys were caught with current police techniques...they did not go through a background check....

Your whole premise is dumb.

Cars are also, but you have paperwork to complete the sale.

 

[miketx]

Here you go.....we already have all the laws we need to catch people selling illegal guns....we don't need to register guns, we don't need to have universal background checks......we can already catch people who are selling guns for profit to criminals.......

Try to understand that, anti gunners.....




Five indicted in Michigan to Chicago straw purchasing scheme

Five men have been indicted in a straw purchasing scheme that brought at least nine handguns from Michigan to Chicago, the U.S. Attorney’s Office announced Tuesday.

The indictment alleges Michigan residents Cornelius Battle and Dalrick Drain bought guns from licensed dealers in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and then sold them to Chicago resident Nathaniel McElroy for higher prices. Battle and Drain allegedly falsified information on the required paperwork, saying they were buying the guns for themselves.

So instead of being convicted of a State crime, they'll be convicted of federal crimes which carry much longer sentences.

Then libtards will let them go.

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

Bullshit! if I leave my keys in the car and it is stolen it's the thieves fault! I've never seen so many criminal loving idiots in my life!

 

[OnePercenter]

Factually incorrect, as usual.

What is factually incorrect?

 

[OnePercenter]

So instead of being convicted of a State crime, they'll be convicted of federal crimes which carry much longer sentences.

Then libtards will let them go.

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

Bullshit! if I leave my keys in the car and it is stolen it's the thieves fault! I've never seen so many criminal loving idiots in my life!

Why would you leave your keys in your car?

 

[miketx]

Then libtards will let them go.

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

Bullshit! if I leave my keys in the car and it is stolen it's the thieves fault! I've never seen so many criminal loving idiots in my life!

Why would you leave your keys in your car?

Why do you suck criminal ass?

 

[OnePercenter]

This libtard believes that if you use any weapon to commit a crime you should go to jail for life. If you injure someone while committing a crime you should be killed.

In regard to guns; if you are a gun owner and don't secure your gun which is stolen or used by somebody other than you, and is used in a crime or death of another, you should suffer the wrath.

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

Bullshit! if I leave my keys in the car and it is stolen it's the thieves fault! I've never seen so many criminal loving idiots in my life!

Why would you leave your keys in your car?

Why do you suck criminal ass?

Is there any intelligent life in Texas?

 

[miketx]

Sure, just as soon as you agree that if someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you should be responsible.

If you leave your keys in your car.....yes.

Bullshit! if I leave my keys in the car and it is stolen it's the thieves fault! I've never seen so many criminal loving idiots in my life!

Why would you leave your keys in your car?

Why do you suck criminal ass?

Is there any intelligent life in Texas?

Yeah, we blame crime on the law abiding.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes, those were what is known as straw purchasers. Not the same as individual sellers who can legally sell their guns to anybody without any background check, paperwork, or records of any kind. They aren't even required to ask the purchaser's name.

And of course you have no idea what you are talking about with this issue.....the criminal buying the gun....can already be arrested for buying the gun....using current laws and current police work. Selling private property is not a crime.....you want to make it a crime. The anti gun leadership want to use universal background checks to get universal gun registration...they could give a rats ass about criminals getting guns from private sellers....all they want is to get universal background checks so that they can then demand universal gun registration...you can't have universal background checks without registering all guns...other wise you won't know who originally had the gun.

And criminals will still get guns even if you mandated a background check for private sales......these guys...they went to a licensed gun dealer....filled out the paperwork, went through the background check, the gun store kept records of the sale....

And the licensed gun dealer even asked them their names......and they even told the dealer their names....

And they took those legally purchased guns, having gone through all of your hoops....and sold the guns to felons......

Universal background checks will be passed by the same people because they can pass background checks....criminals will use those people to buy their guns and if they want a gun a private seller has, they will use friends and family and other straw buyers who can already pass background checks...making your post silly and pointless....

Who wants people to stop selling private property? I just want to keep people who can't legally buy guns from buying guns. Universal background checks will help with that.

Ok. So how are you going to entice the criminals to get a background check? Not sure how that part of your plan works, exactly.

Thousands of direct sellers. Most would obey the law and do a background check on the buyer, or not sell the gun. The responsibility for the universal check falls on the seller who currently doesn't even have to know the buyer's name.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Why? The gun is stolen. You didn't use the gun, the gun was in your home....someone broke in, took the gun and used it, how is that in any way your fault?

What part of 'secure your gun' don't you understand? This is why there should be a 'idiot clause' in gun sales........

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

You poor, deluded fool. News flash: it is not at all difficult to get into most gun safes! Grab the whole thing, throw it in a truck, haul it home, and simply cut it open at my leisure. Most gun safes are more secure than a high-end file cabinet...but not by much. A truly SECURE safe costs as much as a new car.

You believe that a residential burglar is as sophisticated as that and you call me 'deluded?'

How many guns that were secured in a safe were stolen last year in the US?

How many guns that were secured in a safe were used by kids that shot themselves or others last year in the US?

Quit making excuses for the brain dead gun owners and start taking responsibility.

No, flea brain...I "believe" (actually, I KNOW) that many burglars are that "sophisticated". Plenty of gun safes can be opened in a few minutes, with a tire iron and a hammer! There are NO gun safes that actually meet the UL's lowest burglary performance rating.

This 3000+lb beast (a mere $11,000 installed) is also an example of one that DOESN'T...

Solid steel door:

Tight gaps, no way to insert a crowbar:

Cross-section of a real safe:

Cross-section of a typical gun safe:

Typically large gap-I could pop that in five minutes with a tire iron, or three with a hammer and cold chisel

This was done by a couple of $5 screwdrivers:

 

[Jarlaxle]

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

And if they want our guns they will either take your safes or break into them...so....you will then be responsible...right? moron

How do you take a safe that is secured. Break into a biometric safe......good luck! In either case you've secured the weapon. (idiot clause)

Hack through the side with a fire axe, or take a panel off with a Sawzall.

If "secured", hook a 6-ton tow strap to it, hook the other end to the hitch on the truck, and give it a yank.

You've been watching too many movies!

Dude, look at a few gun safes. (In person, not on Google.) They have only the name in common with an ACTUAL safe: they are made of stamped sheetmetal, drywall, and are, essentially, beefed-up file cabinets. Many can be forced with ONE SWING from a fire axe of 10lb sledge!

 

[Jarlaxle]

What part of "stolen" don't you get. If you have it in your house, it is secured...if someone breaks in and takes it, you are the victim...what part of that equation don't you get? Oh...that's right, you are a left winger.....even the most simple concept is beyond you...I apologize for trying to discuss the issue with you...

In all of my properties and cars I have biometric safes. That is secured. Idiot.

And if they want our guns they will either take your safes or break into them...so....you will then be responsible...right? moron

How do you take a safe that is secured. Break into a biometric safe......good luck! In either case you've secured the weapon. (idiot clause)

You do know that most safes available to the average person can be drilled into don't you?

You think that just because it has a fingerprint scanner on it that it cant be forced open?

A residential burglar is going to take the time and make the noise to do such a thing? Really?

No...they will just grab the whole thing!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Factually incorrect, as usual.

What is factually incorrect?

Your statement in post 101. Stop pretending to be a lawyer...you're not.