Darwin vs DNA

[Youwerecreated]

Genesis 41. Read the whole chapter. God prophesied 14 years of weather. I just asked for one day.
Genesis 41:57 can be proven by the inscription on a Yemenite woman's tomb:
I Tajah, sent my steward to Joseph and he delayed to return to me, so I sent my hand maiden with a measure of silver for a measure of flour. ............
Then she sent gold and pearls and could not procure the food. She starved to death. And,
A marble tablet, unearthed in the 1800's, in Saudi Arabia, corresponds with the Biblical account also. It accounts for 7 years of good life, followed by the barren and blight. The author of the inscription ended with:
"Thus fares it with him who renders not thanks to God"...................

With so much of the bible, its up to the reader to advance whatever subjective interpretation they care to manufacture.

I see nothing in the above that speaks to a weather forecast. Your earlier post requested a specific weather forecast at a specific time in the future. I'm only requesting that your claims to biblical miracles be supported with evidence. Something in biblical fortune telling that provides specific times / dates would be helpful.

I see no such evidence.

That is not true. All of scripture needs to be taken in for consideration to get to the truth and truly understand what is being said.

We have too many sects of Christianity that cherry pick scriptures to form doctrine. The bible was written in such a way that a person would have to devote time to to get to the truth.

 

[Hollie]

Genesis 41. Read the whole chapter. God prophesied 14 years of weather. I just asked for one day.
Genesis 41:57 can be proven by the inscription on a Yemenite woman's tomb:
I Tajah, sent my steward to Joseph and he delayed to return to me, so I sent my hand maiden with a measure of silver for a measure of flour. ............
Then she sent gold and pearls and could not procure the food. She starved to death. And,
A marble tablet, unearthed in the 1800's, in Saudi Arabia, corresponds with the Biblical account also. It accounts for 7 years of good life, followed by the barren and blight. The author of the inscription ended with:
"Thus fares it with him who renders not thanks to God"...................

With so much of the bible, its up to the reader to advance whatever subjective interpretation they care to manufacture.

I see nothing in the above that speaks to a weather forecast. Your earlier post requested a specific weather forecast at a specific time in the future. I'm only requesting that your claims to biblical miracles be supported with evidence. Something in biblical fortune telling that provides specific times / dates would be helpful.

I see no such evidence.

That is not true. All of scripture needs to be taken in for consideration to get to the truth and truly understand what is being said.

We have too many sects of Christianity that cherry pick scriptures to form doctrine. The bible was written in such a way that a person would have to devote time to to get to the truth.

Clearly, it is true. Those whose abilities are limited to subjective interpretation of books of tales and fables fail to present a convincing argument. The only way to evaluate the veracity of an ideology is to examine the core documents of that ideology. Applying external standards does not mean that we ignore the very document(s) upon which the ideology is based. Which words are true and which words are not? Does this relate to specific chapters as well? Can one sentence be gospel, the next not, the next two yes, the rest no? What is the standard by which this is judged? We have every reason to believe that entire portions of the bible are precisely takes and fables. Some of the bible: the Noah tale and even genesis are rife with errors and contradictions

This is so often the underlying context of your approach. Sure, you can pick and choose whatever you want, and think you are right -- but you have no baseline by which to assess whether or not your interpretation is correct. That is one reason why christianity has splintered into so many different sects and subdivisions.

 

[The Irish Ram]

As a book of philosophy, it could pass. As the actual word of some invisible being in another dimension? Not so much. That's sooooo retarded.

As a book of philosophy you are right.
Look up the defs. for philosophy, and it fits the def. In Greek - love of wisdom.
So let's look at a philosophical phrase attributed to God.

Isaiah 46:10
I [God] make known the end from the beginning.........
8 words. And certainly enough to debate philosophically. Who is I? Why make known? and so on. So I like when we can agree .
And I hope Candy is around, because this is another example of why mere mortals could not have relied on their own understanding to compose the Bible. Different men, in different areas, at different times, could not have developed the levels of information extracted from what they wrote independently of one another.

I am about to take those same 8 philosophical words in a different direction. Science.

First there are a lot of definitions for dimension. Here's Webster:
Definition of DIMENSION
: measure in one direction; specifically : one of three or four coordinates determining a position in space or space and time.....

Here is a simple example of How God can see the beginning and the end using coordinates:
Envision yourself on a sidewalk on main street, as a parade rounds the corner. It passes by you and turns the corner on to Elm street.
What you saw was from your perspective, in real time, and in compliance with the 4 dimensions you are bound to here on earth.
Now
Envision yourself in a blimp, < (because you are bound by gravity and cannot hover) hovering over the city. From that vantage point what you see is the same parade beginning at city hall, winding through town, and the end when they stop at the fairgrounds.

The reason God can see the end from the beginning is in the def. of dimensions. His position in space and time gives Him a different view, not bound by spacial time, or gravity, or the speed of light, or mass, or energy.

So while some may read the Bible and wax philosophically, others with a heart for science go to work on a different level and discover the dimensions that are not known to us but to God are commonplace. And we are finding them.

Their next "scientific" revelation will be that dimensions:
Isaiah 64:1 can be torn;
Psalm 102 can be worn out like a garment;
Hebrews 12:26, Haggai 2:6, Isaiah 13:13 can be shaken;
2 Peter 3:12, can be &#8220;burnt up&#8221;; and
Hebrews 1:12 can be &#8220;rolled up like a mantle. ...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Some of the bible: the Noah tale and even genesis are rife with errors and contradictions

What is it about Noah that you don't understand? How did all of those animals fit in one boat? Two of everything? Or was it seven?

If you built an arc to the specifications given in the Bible, you'd find that it is a very large very stable craft.
It would be one hundred thousand sq. feet. There were 3 floors.

Only every KIND of animal entered the arc, NOT every species of that kind.
He needed two canines, not two labs, two poodles, two huskies.
He needed 2 representatives of the cat family not all breeds of cat.
Of clean animals 7 were required, 2 for mating, the rest for traditional sacrifices.

Only 15% of animals are bigger than a sheep.
There were about 2,000 animals on Noah's arc. Even if Noah took the animals at genera, that would make 16,000 animals on a 100,000 sq. foot ship.
Plants survived because seeds float.
You can find accounts of the flood in almost every culture.

 

[Hollie]

Some of the bible: the Noah tale and even genesis are rife with errors and contradictions

What is it about Noah that you don't understand? How did all of those animals fit in one boat? Two of everything? Or was it seven?

If you built an arc to the specifications given in the Bible, you'd find that it is a very large very stable craft.
It would be one hundred thousand sq. feet. There were 3 floors.

Only every KIND of animal entered the arc, NOT every species of that kind.
He needed two canines, not two labs, two poodles, two huskies.
He needed 2 representatives of the cat family not all breeds of cat.
Of clean animals 7 were required, 2 for mating, the rest for traditional sacrifices.

Only 15% of animals are bigger than a sheep.
There were about 2,000 animals on Noah's arc. Even if Noah took the animals at genera, that would make 16,000 animals on a 100,000 sq. foot ship.
Plants survived because seeds float.
You can find accounts of the flood in almost every culture.

You seem versed in marine architecture so please tell us more about the construction of the Ark. Some means and methods of the construction techniques would be helpful.

The animal sacrifices to the gods would be an interesting topic. Tell us more please.

16,000 animals seems like not a lot of wildlife considering the diversity of life on the planet. The flood tals would have taken place some time during the Mayan civilization. Oddly, the Mayans seem to have survived the flood, not even identifying that event as impacting their culture. Strange, that!

And yes, there are many global flood tales from many civilizations. There are so many, in fact, that the Noah tale looks more and more like just one more re-telling of an ancient tale.

Flood Stories from Around the World

 

[The Irish Ram]

I'll do one better and go to the Master Architect.
Genesis:
6:14—“Make yourself an ark [tebah] of gopher wood; make rooms [qinniym] in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch [kofer].
6:15—“And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
6:16—“You shall make a window [tsohar] for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks”

The proportions that God gave Noah, are the same as our modern cargo ships.

As for seaworthiness:

Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The proportions of the Ark were found to carefully balance the conflicting demands of stability, comfort, and strength.
The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m).

The animal sacrifices to the gods would be an interesting topic.

If you think so start a thread.

16,000 mating pairs need not consider diversity. Just the opposite. Purity of line.
The flood came before the Mayans. But their Popol Vuh relates the account:

They sow the earth with seeds that sprout, and their first try produces animals that squawk, chatter, and howl. The second attempt to create humans fails when they dissolve without reproducing. Then they consult the grandmothers Xpiyacoc and Xmucane, a divine matchmaker and a divine midwife. The next people have no hearts and minds and are destroyed in a flood...

What they are describing are nephilim.
The Noah event is where the flood "tales" originated.

 

[LOki]

I'll do one better and go to the Master Architect.
Genesis:
6:14—“Make yourself an ark [tebah] of gopher wood; make rooms [qinniym] in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch [kofer].
6:15—“And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
6:16—“You shall make a window [tsohar] for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks”

The proportions that God gave Noah, are the same as our modern cargo ships.

As for seaworthiness:

Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The proportions of the Ark were found to carefully balance the conflicting demands of stability, comfort, and strength.
The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m).

The animal sacrifices to the gods would be an interesting topic.

If you think so start a thread.

16,000 mating pairs need not consider diversity. Just the opposite. Purity of line.
The flood came before the Mayans. But their Popol Vuh relates the account:

They sow the earth with seeds that sprout, and their first try produces animals that squawk, chatter, and howl. The second attempt to create humans fails when they dissolve without reproducing. Then they consult the grandmothers Xpiyacoc and Xmucane, a divine matchmaker and a divine midwife. The next people have no hearts and minds and are destroyed in a flood...

What they are describing are nephilim.
The Noah event is where the flood "tales" originated.

Complete ignorance of just about everything.

 

[The Irish Ram]

As opposed to another non response from you.............

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.
If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today. And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

 

[ima]

And from you another non response.

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.
If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today. And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

Is every bible thumper as dumb as you are?

Nothing in creationism is provable: earth made in 6 days, Noah, the flood (how did all the plants survive underwater for 40 days?)...

 

[Hollie]

I'll do one better and go to the Master Architect.
Genesis:
6:14—“Make yourself an ark [tebah] of gopher wood; make rooms [qinniym] in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch [kofer].
6:15—“And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
6:16—“You shall make a window [tsohar] for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks”

The proportions that God gave Noah, are the same as our modern cargo ships.

As for seaworthiness:

Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The proportions of the Ark were found to carefully balance the conflicting demands of stability, comfort, and strength.
The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m).

The animal sacrifices to the gods would be an interesting topic.

If you think so start a thread.

16,000 mating pairs need not consider diversity. Just the opposite. Purity of line.
The flood came before the Mayans. But their Popol Vuh relates the account:

They sow the earth with seeds that sprout, and their first try produces animals that squawk, chatter, and howl. The second attempt to create humans fails when they dissolve without reproducing. Then they consult the grandmothers Xpiyacoc and Xmucane, a divine matchmaker and a divine midwife. The next people have no hearts and minds and are destroyed in a flood...

What they are describing are nephilim.
The Noah event is where the flood "tales" originated.

The Noah tale and the described "major study" was suspicious so I for some searching. Claims to the alleged "study" are displayed prominently on creationist websites but virtually no where else. I did find this:


Koreans Study Proportions of Noah's Ark

"A Creationist group in Korea (KACR) approached a world class ship research center (KRISO) to analyze the Biblical Ark. Starting with the proportions given in the Bible, the KRISO team 1 set about to compare it with 12 alternative "Arks" with different proportions. By combining the requirements for stability (capsize resistance), comfort (seakindliness) and strength (hull stress), they found that is was not possible to make much improvement on the Biblical Ark. They assumed a random sea, where "the waves came from all directions with the same probability".

Gee whiz! A creationist group found data favorable to the Ark tale.

Never saw that one comin'.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And from you another non response.

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.
If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today. And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

Is every bible thumper as dumb as you are?

Nothing in creationism is provable: earth made in 6 days, Noah, the flood (how did all the plants survive underwater for 40 days?)...

seeds float

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Noah tale and the described "major study" was suspicious so I for some searching. Claims to the alleged "study" are displayed prominently on creationist websites but virtually no where else. I did find this:


Koreans Study Proportions of Noah's Ark

"A Creationist group in Korea (KACR) approached a world class ship research center (KRISO) to analyze the Biblical Ark. Starting with the proportions given in the Bible, the KRISO team 1 set about to compare it with 12 alternative "Arks" with different proportions. By combining the requirements for stability (capsize resistance), comfort (seakindliness) and strength (hull stress), they found that is was not possible to make much improvement on the Biblical Ark. They assumed a random sea, where "the waves came from all directions with the same probability".

Gee whiz! A creationist group found data favorable to the Ark tale.

Never saw that one comin'.

Well anything that gets you to do some homework can't be all bad............

Gee whiz! A creationist group found data favorable to the Ark tale.

So are you saying that the only research you'll accept is that provided by an atheist?

What you are implying is that because a Christian group asked for the study, that Dr. Hong's conclusion was somehow biased.
He has a very esteemed reputation. One of the best as far as ships are concerned.
If you wanted to prove a ship could float, or not, who would you go to, a hair stylist? Your vet?
Dr. Hong's study is lengthier and more intricate as far as the arc is concerned, than the paragraph you quoted. The ark was dead on.

God engineered it.
Hong proved it met the qualifications to do exactly what it was designed to do.
I saw a scientist build an ark model, and then tried to sink it in a lab wave tank. You couldn't sink that ark with a bomb!

 

[newpolitics]

f

As opposed to another non response from you.............

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.
If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today. And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

Why do you think this should be the case? Can you show us what math you are using? You're idea is easily refutable by using an analogy to animal populations. Gray wolves, although proficient hunters, have a limiting population growth factor, which is the size of the population of their food sources. If the gray wolf population were to theoretically become so big, so fast, that they killed off all of their prey, they themselves would die out, as evolution can not happen in one generation to evolve to the new conditions. So, there is a limit to their growth. In fact, the population numbers dance around a theoretical equilibrium. If gray wolves grow in population, their pray dwindle in number, which means the gray wolf must die off because there is not enough a food, until their numbers settle back to an equilibrium. If the gray wolf diminish in number (disease, environmental catastrophe), their pray will likely flourish until the wolf kill them off the excess numbers and bring it back towards an equilibrium. This is the same with all species. It comes down to available resources, and calories.

Because population numbers are checked by limiting factors within the environment, and the same goes for us. We didn't have the technology to provide enough food to expand our numbers until only 10,000 year ago, when we first domesticated animals and had our first "cities." Before that, we were hunter gatherers, and our population numbers were held in check by that fact that having a group too big, was too difficult to feed, and there simply would not have been enough food. and people would have died until an equilibrium was established between the amount of people living and the amount of food they were able to procure. It is not pragmatic to sustain a huge group like that. There simply isn't enough food. Once we started to produce our own food, that all changed, and that is when numbers started increasing. Yet, even then, we didn't have disease control, and our numbers were still limited by technology. It is only when our manipulation of the natural world using technology started, that we began to be able to produce more and more. Our methods became more efficient, so more people could be fed, which means a higher population.

Simply using the same exponential equation but starting back much further, as you are doing, is ignoring ALL OF THE DETAILS, and is an invalid model of what actually happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

"The world population has experienced continuous growth since the end of the Great Famine and the Black Death in 1350, when it stood at around 370 million.[6] The highest rates of growth &#8211; global population increases above 1.8% per year &#8211; were seen briefly during the 1950s, and for a longer period during the 1960s and 1970s. The growth rate peaked at 2.2% in 1963, and had declined to 1.1% by 2011. Total annual births were highest in the late 1980s at about 138 million,[7] and are now expected to remain essentially constant at their 2011 level of 134 million, while deaths number 56 million per year, and are expected to increase to 80 million per year by 2040.[8] Current projections show a continued increase in population in the near future (but a steady decline in the population growth rate), with the global population expected to reach between 7.5 and 10.5 billion by 2050.[2][9][10]"

A dramatic population bottleneck is theorized for the period around 70,000 BC as a result of the Toba supervolcano eruption. From this time until the development of agriculture around the 11th millennium BC, it is estimated that the world population stabilized at about one million people, whose subsistence entailed hunting and foraging &#8211; a lifestyle that by its nature ensured a low population density. The total world population probably never exceeded 15 million inhabitants before the invention of agriculture.[21] By contrast, it is estimated that more than 50&#8211;60 million people lived in the combined eastern and western Roman Empire (AD 300&#8211;400).[22]

The plague which first emerged during the reign of Justinian caused Europe's population to drop by around 50% between 541 and the 8th century.[23] The population of Europe was more than 70 million in 1340.[24] The Black Death pandemic of the 14th century may have reduced the world's population from an estimated 450 million in 1340 to between 350 and 375 million in 1400;[25] it took roughly 200 years for Europe's population to regain its 1340 level.[26] China experienced a population decline from an estimated 123 million around 1200 to an estimated 65 million in 1393,[27] which was presumably due to a combination of Mongol invasions and plague.[28]

 

[Hollie]

The Noah tale and the described "major study" was suspicious so I for some searching. Claims to the alleged "study" are displayed prominently on creationist websites but virtually no where else. I did find this:


Koreans Study Proportions of Noah's Ark

"A Creationist group in Korea (KACR) approached a world class ship research center (KRISO) to analyze the Biblical Ark. Starting with the proportions given in the Bible, the KRISO team 1 set about to compare it with 12 alternative "Arks" with different proportions. By combining the requirements for stability (capsize resistance), comfort (seakindliness) and strength (hull stress), they found that is was not possible to make much improvement on the Biblical Ark. They assumed a random sea, where "the waves came from all directions with the same probability".

Gee whiz! A creationist group found data favorable to the Ark tale.

Never saw that one comin'.

Well anything that gets you to do some homework can't be all bad............

Gee whiz! A creationist group found data favorable to the Ark tale.

So are you saying that the only research you'll accept is that provided by an atheist?

Well actually, I would have thought you would have done your homework to have been better versed with the facts surrounding the study.

What you are implying is that because a Christian group asked for the study, that Dr. Hong's conclusion was somehow biased.
He has a very esteemed reputation. One of the best as far as ships are concerned.
If you wanted to prove a ship could float, or not, who would you go to, a hair stylist? Your vet?
Dr. Hong's study is lengthier and more intricate as far as the arc is concerned, than the paragraph you quoted. The ark was dead on.

I find it concerning that the results of the study are nearly non-existent except where found on creationist websites. I’ve found there is a pattern of such behavior where creationists will not submit their studies for peer review. As such, they may not feel a need to be rigorous in the means and methods of their studies.

What is also concerning is that the “study” you linked to has been presented on the webpage of the Institute for Creation Research as it was among many creationist websites.

The ICR is (as I suspect you are aware), among the leading YEC Christian creationist organizations.

Like so many of these creationist / ID organizations, standards for research and publication are… how shall we say… lacking, in terms of adhering to the scientific method. This was displayed prominently when the ICR was given the Bum’s Rush out of town by a Texas judge.

The Institute For Creation Research Gets Slammed, Rejected By Federal Judge - Houston - News - Hair Balls
quoted the following excerpts from ICRGS's program catalog:

1. "It is the position of the institute that...all genuine facts of science support the Bible."

2. "The phenomenon of biological life did not develop by natural processes from inanimate systems but was specially and supernaturally created by the creator."

3. "All things in the universe were created and made by God in the six literal days of the Creation Week described in Genesis...[.] The creation record is factual, historical, and perspicuous; thus all theories of origin and development that involve evolution in any form are false. (emphasis added by Stafford).

God engineered it.
Hong proved it met the qualifications to do exactly what it was designed to do.
I saw a scientist build an ark model, and then tried to sink it in a lab wave tank. You couldn't sink that ark with a bomb!

As I noted above, I would hope that you would be a bit more rigorous in defining your argument. As the Noah tale goes, god(s) did not build an ark. Noah built the Ark. Whether god(s) built or "engineered" an Ark or anything else is purely partisan religious belief, totally unsupported.

Secondly, your comment earlier was that:

Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.

What we learn from the actual “study” is that:

… the KRISO team 1 set about to compare it with 12 alternative "Arks" with different proportions. By combining the requirements for stability (capsize resistance), comfort (seakindliness) and strength (hull stress), they found that is was not possible to make much improvement on the Biblical Ark.

Now that we’re putting a fimer point on the study, we’re finding that the “Ark” was tested against alternate Arks. What alternate arks? I found no data prepared by the creationist “cruise to nowhere” folks that could be reviewed by non-creationists.

Who was charged with designing and building these alternate Arks?

 

[Hollie]

And from you another non response.

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.
If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today. And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

Is every bible thumper as dumb as you are?

Nothing in creationism is provable: earth made in 6 days, Noah, the flood (how did all the plants survive underwater for 40 days?)...

seeds float

Not all seeds float. Hardwood tree seeds/fruit will sink quickly when immersed in water:
pin oak, maple seed pods, walnut pods for a few examples.

 

[LOki]

As opposed to another non response from you.............

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be around 5 billion.

If creationists are correct and our population started with 4 couples after the flood 4,300 years ago, our population today should be sufficiently homogeneous genetically to make donor organ rejection mostly meaningless. That's the predictable consequence of the genetic purity resultant from such an extreme genetic bottle-neck.

If evolution is correct then there should be a population of 10 to the 2091 degree. Evolution should have produced a trillion X trillion X trillion X trillion people that should be alive today.

OOOOooooooOOOOH! Made-up nonsense! You're really showing us evolutionists that you're prepared to TCOB with your handy refutation of the made-up nonsense that you engineered to be refuted.

And we should have mountains of skeletal remains in which to find over a million (not one) missing links Darwin said would be necessary to prove evolution. Where are all the people?

Gathering enough straw so you can make 10^2091 little straw-men to beat up.

 

[ima]

As a book of philosophy, it could pass. As the actual word of some invisible being in another dimension? Not so much. That's sooooo retarded.

As a book of philosophy you are right.
Look up the defs. for philosophy, and it fits the def. In Greek - love of wisdom.
So let's look at a philosophical phrase attributed to God.

Isaiah 46:10
I [God] make known the end from the beginning.........
8 words. And certainly enough to debate philosophically. Who is I? Why make known? and so on. So I like when we can agree .
And I hope Candy is around, because this is another example of why mere mortals could not have relied on their own understanding to compose the Bible. Different men, in different areas, at different times, could not have developed the levels of information extracted from what they wrote independently of one another.

I am about to take those same 8 philosophical words in a different direction. Science.

First there are a lot of definitions for dimension. Here's Webster:
Definition of DIMENSION
: measure in one direction; specifically : one of three or four coordinates determining a position in space or space and time.....

Here is a simple example of How God can see the beginning and the end using coordinates:
Envision yourself on a sidewalk on main street, as a parade rounds the corner. It passes by you and turns the corner on to Elm street.
What you saw was from your perspective, in real time, and in compliance with the 4 dimensions you are bound to here on earth.
Now
Envision yourself in a blimp, < (because you are bound by gravity and cannot hover) hovering over the city. From that vantage point what you see is the same parade beginning at city hall, winding through town, and the end when they stop at the fairgrounds.

The reason God can see the end from the beginning is in the def. of dimensions. His position in space and time gives Him a different view, not bound by spacial time, or gravity, or the speed of light, or mass, or energy.

So while some may read the Bible and wax philosophically, others with a heart for science go to work on a different level and discover the dimensions that are not known to us but to God are commonplace. And we are finding them.

Their next "scientific" revelation will be that dimensions:
Isaiah 64:1 can be torn;
Psalm 102 can be worn out like a garment;
Hebrews 12:26, Haggai 2:6, Isaiah 13:13 can be shaken;
2 Peter 3:12, can be “burnt up”; and
Hebrews 1:12 can be “rolled up like a mantle. ...

I'm sorry, you can't attribute any words to any invisible being that no one has ever seen who lives in another dimension that no one has ever been to. What you're doing is speculating that this invisible dude knows everything.

And anyways your quote is "I [God] make known the end from the beginning", which means pretty much nothing, and certainly nowhere near what you're arguing about dimensions. You're messed up bro.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Of course I can. And I'll be back tonight to show you how.
Until then speculate on this:
6,000 years ago, God said, "Ismael will be a wild ass whose hand will be against everyone including his own".
See if you can find anything to back that prophecy up on tonight's news..................

 

[Hollie]

Of course I can. And I'll be back tonight to show you how.
Until then speculate on this:
6,000 years ago, God said, "Ismael will be a wild ass whose hand will be against everyone including his own".
See if you can find anything to back that prophecy up on tonight's news..................

I speculated as requested. I found evidence here:

The Onion - America's Finest News Source

From what I can discern, I suggest you immediately sell all your possessions and head-for-zee-hills.

 

[The Irish Ram]

New,
I'd like for it to be as easy as saying, "you collect marbles for a million years and I'll collect marbles for 43 hundred years and see who is closest to the amount of marbles in the world today".
But I can't so:
Since there has never been a world census, let's add variables and use the same calculations for both creationists and evolutionists.
Let's use one family with an low average of 2.5 children each to account for natural depletion, such as war, disease, and famine. And we'll use a 43 year generation. Any of these can be changed but must be the same for both equations.
In 4300 years, there would be 100 generations lasting forty three years each, which would make the population growth from the flood to now 5 billion.
Now evolution. Using the same calculation of 43 years per generation, the population growth would produce 23,256 consecutive generations @2.5 children each. or 10 to the power of 2091. If they are correct, at a rate of 2% a year, in 700 years there will be 1 person per foot of earth.
Using the evolution theory, assume that the human population increases geometrically. That is, the increase each year is equal to a constant proportion of the population the previous year.
Here's the math:
P is the population at any certain time, r is the proportionate annual increase in population, and Pn is the population n years later. For example, if the present population is 3.5 billion and the planet’s permissible population is 50 billion, the number of years before this number will be reached at the present 2% annual increase can be calculated as follows:
Going backwards instead of forward, equation (1) will also indicate how long it would take to produce the present population at 2% growth per year, starting with two people. An initial population of only two people, increasing at 2% per year, would become 3.5 billion people in only 1075 years. Since written records go back over 4,000 years, it is obvious that the average growth rate throughout past history has been considerably less than the present rate.
You can also use the equation (1) to determine what the average growth rate would have to be to generate the present population in 4,000 years.
An average population growth rate of only (1/2)% would generate the present world population in only 4000 years.

Hollie, you forgot to add that according to the study:
Changing any of the dimensions given in the Bible, even a little, would have created an ark that would not have survived. The Titanic sank. The ark did not.
The research was performed without bias. Does the fact that you can't find it on any atheists sites somehow discredit the results?

As far as

Not all seeds float. Hardwood tree seeds/fruit will sink quickly when immersed in water:
pin oak, maple seed pods, walnut pods for a few examples.

That would be covered in Genesis 6:21


Ima,

I'm sorry, you can't attribute any words to any invisible being that no one has ever seen who lives in another dimension that no one has ever been to. What you're doing is speculating that this invisible dude knows everything.

And anyways your quote is "I [God] make known the end from the beginning", which means pretty much nothing, and certainly nowhere near what you're arguing about dimensions. You're messed up bro.

I can if the invisible predicts the future with accuracy. No mortal can do it with regularity, and without guesswork. You try it. What movie will win the Academy Award for best picture in 2014?

As far as dimensions no one has seen, you don't have to see them to know that they are there. Well, maybe you do, but Genesis, Nachmanides, Einstein, Hawking and others understand on a different level than you do.
Acquaint yourself with the work of Rabbi Nachnabides, concerning the information he was able to extract from the invisible one concerning dimensions for help.

And Yes, He knows everything. And he is a really good ship builder too.

There ya go.