Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Boss]

So under your latest insanity no other mammals have a "fear of death"? Your absurdity knows no bounds.

No other animal or form of life, contemplates death, worries about what happens when it dies, or has any conceptualization of death, other than universal survival instinct and preservation of life. If you can demonstrate otherwise, be my guest.

What you are describing is human sentience and is a function of relative intelligence and complexity of the human brain. It has nothing to do with your gods.

Sorry, but nature doesn't support your argument. Other animals certainly have sentience and brains which function exactly like homo sapiens. Why don't we see chimps and other upper primates exhibiting crude forms of spiritualism? Why do other living things, who are less intelligent than humans, not have a need to create imaginary security blankets or placebos for knowledge they lack? More importantly, why has this imaginary phenomenon persisted in our species to the same degree, after science has explained away every 'unknown' of ancient man?

We can keep this up, I don't mind repeating the same thing over and over again until you get it. I am not going to get tired and give up, if that's what you think. This is the third time you've made this very claim, and you've yet to support it with any scientific evidence, and I have refuted it with science every time. It doesn't matter to me, we can do it 100 more time or 1000 more times, I have nothing better to do.

 

[Youwerecreated]

They formed by magical processes.

The magic is described by four words: "the gawds did it".

So you admit life is a miracle if there is no creator ?

No. I admit there is no evidence of a "creator".

Life has no need for either miracles or gawds.

Scientists are working hard to produce life if they figure it out or not why would you rule out whether God was needed ? Life was kick started by something and it makes sense to me it was a superior intelligence to man.

Man is trying to reproduce what the designer has already done.

 

[Boss]

Humans are clearly not born "spiritual', ie:, religious.

Babies seem to be blank slates, devoid of anything but instinct (eat, defecate, sleep, that sort of thing). They also display curiosity and experiment with their environment, so they seem far more in tune with the processes of science as opposed to those of faith. If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

People rarely chose their theistic beliefs and they rarely apply very hard standards to those beliefs. Religious belief tends to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another), or anecdotal (you believe in certain events that for you define a specific belief, like a hindu may have examples of "reincarnation" whereas a Catholic will "see visions of Mary", etc.), or there is simply a resonance in the belief system you select.

Do you not see what you continue to do? You begin talking about spiritualism, but before you can get through a paragraph, you have conflated spirituality with theism or religion.

Let me ask you this, Hollie... Have you always been a Nihilist? Has this been your belief since birth?

Oh no, Boss. You've been reduced to pointless question begging argumentation.

So, Boss, is it true you that have been arrested and jailed for trading sexual favors to men on the street in exchange for vials of crack cocaine?

Are you afraid to answer my question? It's pretty straightforward. You have articulated a belief that no spiritual nature exists, therefore, you are a Nihilist. I am sorry if that label offends you, but that is your professed belief. I simply asked if you had always been a Nihilist. A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Do you not see what you continue to do? You begin talking about spiritualism, but before you can get through a paragraph, you have conflated spirituality with theism or religion.

Let me ask you this, Hollie... Have you always been a Nihilist? Has this been your belief since birth?

Oh no, Boss. You've been reduced to pointless question begging argumentation.

So, Boss, is it true you that have been arrested and jailed for trading sexual favors to men on the street in exchange for vials of crack cocaine?

Are you afraid to answer my question? It's pretty straightforward. You have articulated a belief that no spiritual nature exists, therefore, you are a Nihilist. I am sorry if that label offends you, but that is your professed belief. I simply asked if you had always been a Nihilist. A simple yes or no will suffice.

So Boss are you in to spiritualism ? because it is defined as a religion.

 

[Boss]

So under your latest insanity no other mammals have a "fear of death"? Your absurdity knows no bounds.

No other animal or form of life, contemplates death, worries about what happens when it dies, or has any conceptualization of death, other than universal survival instinct and preservation of life. If you can demonstrate otherwise, be my guest.

The above does nothing to support your claim to gods or something you call "spirituality" but can't define.

But I have defined spirituality numerous times in this thread. Here, I am asking you for the science to back up your claim that humans invented spirituality to cope with "fear of death," and as we see, you offer nothing. You wouldn't be trying to argue "because I say so" would you? Because, that's a no-no, right?

A deity whose very existence you just DENIED in your other post.

God does not automatically have to be a "deity." This seems to be where you are hung up. I am a spiritualist, I believe in spiritual nature and a spiritual energy which I refer to as "god" but which I don't believe has the qualities of any "deity" suggested by religion or theology. The "god" I believe in, doesn't have humanistic attributes, doesn't judge your actions, doesn't condemn you to hell, doesn't need you to worship it, doesn't love or hate you. I'm sorry that your brain apparently cannot comprehend such a god, but that's not my problem, is it?

The "god" you believe in, as you described "it", sounds like "nothing'ness". Why continue with the 70,000 years™, nonsense when you're describing 70,000 years™ of nothing?

It's not nonsense, it's recorded history. Humans have spiritually connected for as long as humans have existed. 95% of all humans, still have some spiritual connection, or at least acknowledge possibility of some spiritual existence. I don't believe that qualifies as "nonsense" but what you and about 5% of the population espouse, is indeed nonsensical. It defies science and Darwinism and relies on faith in disbelief.

My spiritual god is certainly not "nothingness" from my perspective. It is the source of my inspirations and strength, it is what guides my existence and life. I connect with it daily, and find it's presence all around me. It doesn't take the form of YWC's "god" or any other religious incarnation, but it does indeed exist, just as much as your mother exists.

 

[Hollie]

No other animal or form of life, contemplates death, worries about what happens when it dies, or has any conceptualization of death, other than universal survival instinct and preservation of life. If you can demonstrate otherwise, be my guest.

What you are describing is human sentience and is a function of relative intelligence and complexity of the human brain. It has nothing to do with your gods.

Sorry, but nature doesn't support your argument. Other animals certainly have sentience and brains which function exactly like homo sapiens. Why don't we see chimps and other upper primates exhibiting crude forms of spiritualism? Why do other living things, who are less intelligent than humans, not have a need to create imaginary security blankets or placebos for knowledge they lack? More importantly, why has this imaginary phenomenon persisted in our species to the same degree, after science has explained away every 'unknown' of ancient man?

We can keep this up, I don't mind repeating the same thing over and over again until you get it. I am not going to get tired and give up, if that's what you think. This is the third time you've made this very claim, and you've yet to support it with any scientific evidence, and I have refuted it with science every time. It doesn't matter to me, we can do it 100 more time or 1000 more times, I have nothing better to do.

Sorry, but your are claims are demonstrably false. Other animals clearly do exhibit sentient behavior as humans do nor do they have brains which function exactly like humans. There is a reason why humans build, manufacture, create industry, etc. There is a reason why other animals do not. That is because our brains have developed in ways that are different than animals lower on the sentience / intelligence strat.

You can keep up with you claims to "spirits", gods and other things that go bump in the night but when your claims are absent verification, they're no different than other "because I say so", claims.

 

[Hollie]

So you admit life is a miracle if there is no creator ?

No. I admit there is no evidence of a "creator".

Life has no need for either miracles or gawds.

Scientists are working hard to produce life if they figure it out or not why would you rule out whether God was needed ? Life was kick started by something and it makes sense to me it was a superior intelligence to man.

Man is trying to reproduce what the designer has already done.

Why are you insisting that one or more gawds are needed when you make no case for any need?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Boss "God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy" If God is an energy which I believe he is would that not make God exist physically ?

 

[Hollie]

No other animal or form of life, contemplates death, worries about what happens when it dies, or has any conceptualization of death, other than universal survival instinct and preservation of life. If you can demonstrate otherwise, be my guest.

The above does nothing to support your claim to gods or something you call "spirituality" but can't define.

But I have defined spirituality numerous times in this thread. Here, I am asking you for the science to back up your claim that humans invented spirituality to cope with "fear of death," and as we see, you offer nothing. You wouldn't be trying to argue "because I say so" would you? Because, that's a no-no, right?

Claiming you have defined "spirituality" when you have offered nothing but your opinions is a no-no, right?

God does not automatically have to be a "deity." This seems to be where you are hung up. I am a spiritualist, I believe in spiritual nature and a spiritual energy which I refer to as "god" but which I don't believe has the qualities of any "deity" suggested by religion or theology. The "god" I believe in, doesn't have humanistic attributes, doesn't judge your actions, doesn't condemn you to hell, doesn't need you to worship it, doesn't love or hate you. I'm sorry that your brain apparently cannot comprehend such a god, but that's not my problem, is it?

The "god" you believe in, as you described "it", sounds like "nothing'ness". Why continue with the 70,000 years™, nonsense when you're describing 70,000 years™ of nothing?

It's not nonsense, it's recorded history. Humans have spiritually connected for as long as humans have existed. 95% of all humans, still have some spiritual connection, or at least acknowledge possibility of some spiritual existence. I don't believe that qualifies as "nonsense" but what you and about 5% of the population espouse, is indeed nonsensical. It defies science and Darwinism and relies on faith in disbelief.

My spiritual god is certainly not "nothingness" from my perspective. It is the source of my inspirations and strength, it is what guides my existence and life. I connect with it daily, and find it's presence all around me. It doesn't take the form of YWC's "god" or any other religious incarnation, but it does indeed exist, just as much as your mother exists.

Recorded history is one of humans inventing supernatural agents to explain natural causes. Your "spiritual god", is no different than inventions by the Greeks for some of their gods or inventions by the Romans for several of their gods.

If your personal gods exist in your mind, then fine. I'm happy for you. I should advise you however that your personal conceptions of supernatural entities are no different than the conceptions of other supernatural entities other than what you wish to call your entities.

 

[Youwerecreated]

No. I admit there is no evidence of a "creator".

Life has no need for either miracles or gawds.

Scientists are working hard to produce life if they figure it out or not why would you rule out whether God was needed ? Life was kick started by something and it makes sense to me it was a superior intelligence to man.

Man is trying to reproduce what the designer has already done.

Why are you insisting that one or more gawds are needed when you make no case for any need?

Oh but I think I have in the creationists thread. If there was no proper working cell formed there would be no life. There are parts of the cell that were absolutely necessary or there would be no cell that could replicate itself or even function.

It defies logic to believe that all the parts of a car could be in the same area and yet they would naturally join together to form a car. That is not even mentioning how each part for the car had to be designed.

 

[Boss]

A deity whose very existence you just DENIED in your other post.

God does not automatically have to be a "deity." This seems to be where you are hung up. I am a spiritualist, I believe in spiritual nature and a spiritual energy which I refer to as "god" but which I don't believe has the qualities of any "deity" suggested by religion or theology. The "god" I believe in, doesn't have humanistic attributes, doesn't judge your actions, doesn't condemn you to hell, doesn't need you to worship it, doesn't love or hate you. I'm sorry that your brain apparently cannot comprehend such a god, but that's not my problem, is it?

So living organisms are not a product of creation they just formed through natural processes ?

I didn't say that, did I? Personally, I believe spiritual nature created the universe and life, as well as physical nature itself. I just don't happen to believe the Christian incarnation of God the Creator, as depicted in The Bible. I have respect for those who have that belief, I don't dispute that it's possible, I just don't believe it personally. Now maybe when I die, I'll find out differently? If so, I will tell the God of Abraham he didn't do a very good job of convincing me, as I was spiritually connected my whole life. But I can only relate to what I am aware of personally, and that is a spiritual energy I connect with daily.

Oh no, Boss. You've been reduced to pointless question begging argumentation.

So, Boss, is it true you that have been arrested and jailed for trading sexual favors to men on the street in exchange for vials of crack cocaine?

Are you afraid to answer my question? It's pretty straightforward. You have articulated a belief that no spiritual nature exists, therefore, you are a Nihilist. I am sorry if that label offends you, but that is your professed belief. I simply asked if you had always been a Nihilist. A simple yes or no will suffice.

So Boss are you in to spiritualism ? because it is defined as a religion.

I don't believe in religious spiritualism, mine is a philosophical belief. I am aware of a spiritual nature around us, present in the same universe, but not material in existence. It doesn't care, because caring is a human attribute, it has no need to possess such an attribute. Does lightning care? Does it target people who sin? I don't think it does.

That said, spiritual nature is a positive energy flow, and it works to provide positive influences in our physical existence, if we allow it and connect to it spiritually. There are things we can do to disrupt the energy, things we commonly consider "bad" things, are not conducive with the positive energy flow, and disrupting it causes negative energy which is also an influence in our physical existence. Some have said this is akin to "karma" and I guess that is probably as close as I can come to defining it for you. Do good things, and good things will happen... do bad things, and bad things will happen.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The above does nothing to support your claim to gods or something you call "spirituality" but can't define.

Claiming you have defined "spirituality" when you have offered nothing but your opinions is a no-no, right?

It's not nonsense, it's recorded history. Humans have spiritually connected for as long as humans have existed. 95% of all humans, still have some spiritual connection, or at least acknowledge possibility of some spiritual existence. I don't believe that qualifies as "nonsense" but what you and about 5% of the population espouse, is indeed nonsensical. It defies science and Darwinism and relies on faith in disbelief.

My spiritual god is certainly not "nothingness" from my perspective. It is the source of my inspirations and strength, it is what guides my existence and life. I connect with it daily, and find it's presence all around me. It doesn't take the form of YWC's "god" or any other religious incarnation, but it does indeed exist, just as much as your mother exists.

Recorded history is one of humans inventing supernatural agents to explain natural causes. Your "spiritual god", is no different than inventions by the Greeks for some of their gods or inventions by the Romans for several of their gods.

If your personal gods exist in your mind, then fine. I'm happy for you. I should advise you however that your personal conceptions of supernatural entities are no different than the conceptions of other supernatural entities other than what you wish to call your entities.

It has never been demonstrated that origins of life happened through a natural cause.

 

[Boss]

Boss "God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy" If God is an energy which I believe he is would that not make God exist physically ?

Spiritual energy doesn't have physical or material existence as far as we know at this time. It is a reality that co-exists in our universe with physical nature. I leave the possibility open, that we may one day discover a way to verify this spiritual energy through physics, but at this time, we can't.

 

[Youwerecreated]

God does not automatically have to be a "deity." This seems to be where you are hung up. I am a spiritualist, I believe in spiritual nature and a spiritual energy which I refer to as "god" but which I don't believe has the qualities of any "deity" suggested by religion or theology. The "god" I believe in, doesn't have humanistic attributes, doesn't judge your actions, doesn't condemn you to hell, doesn't need you to worship it, doesn't love or hate you. I'm sorry that your brain apparently cannot comprehend such a god, but that's not my problem, is it?

So living organisms are not a product of creation they just formed through natural processes ?

I didn't say that, did I? Personally, I believe spiritual nature created the universe and life, as well as physical nature itself. I just don't happen to believe the Christian incarnation of God the Creator, as depicted in The Bible. I have respect for those who have that belief, I don't dispute that it's possible, I just don't believe it personally. Now maybe when I die, I'll find out differently? If so, I will tell the God of Abraham he didn't do a very good job of convincing me, as I was spiritually connected my whole life. But I can only relate to what I am aware of personally, and that is a spiritual energy I connect with daily.

Are you afraid to answer my question? It's pretty straightforward. You have articulated a belief that no spiritual nature exists, therefore, you are a Nihilist. I am sorry if that label offends you, but that is your professed belief. I simply asked if you had always been a Nihilist. A simple yes or no will suffice.

So Boss are you in to spiritualism ? because it is defined as a religion.

I don't believe in religious spiritualism, mine is a philosophical belief. I am aware of a spiritual nature around us, present in the same universe, but not material in existence. It doesn't care, because caring is a human attribute, it has no need to possess such an attribute. Does lightning care? Does it target people who sin? I don't think it does.

That said, spiritual nature is a positive energy flow, and it works to provide positive influences in our physical existence, if we allow it and connect to it spiritually. There are things we can do to disrupt the energy, things we commonly consider "bad" things, are not conducive with the positive energy flow, and disrupting it causes negative energy which is also an influence in our physical existence. Some have said this is akin to "karma" and I guess that is probably as close as I can come to defining it for you. Do good things, and good things will happen... do bad things, and bad things will happen.

I have experienced both sides of the spiritual realm the good and the evil how would you explain that ? I am sure you have as well.

 

[Hollie]

Boss "God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy" If God is an energy which I believe he is would that not make God exist physically ?

Spiritual energy doesn't have physical or material existence as far as we know at this time. It is a reality that co-exists in our universe with physical nature. I leave the possibility open, that we may one day discover a way to verify this spiritual energy through physics, but at this time, we can't.

"Spiritual energy" is thus "magic energy".

It's existence is described by "magic".

 

[Hollie]

Claiming you have defined "spirituality" when you have offered nothing but your opinions is a no-no, right?







Recorded history is one of humans inventing supernatural agents to explain natural causes. Your "spiritual god", is no different than inventions by the Greeks for some of their gods or inventions by the Romans for several of their gods.

If your personal gods exist in your mind, then fine. I'm happy for you. I should advise you however that your personal conceptions of supernatural entities are no different than the conceptions of other supernatural entities other than what you wish to call your entities.

It has never been demonstrated that origins of life happened through a natural cause.

"the gawds did it".

All questions are thus answered and no further questions are required.

 

[Boss]

Claiming you have defined "spirituality" when you have offered nothing but your opinions is a no-no, right?

Right, but that's not what I have done here. I have offered 70k years of history and human behavior, along with the testimony of billions who came before me. That's not my opinion, it's what the evidence proves. You haven't refuted this evidence by calling it "nonsense" or "delusions" or "imagination."

Recorded history is one of humans inventing supernatural agents to explain natural causes. Your "spiritual god", is no different than inventions by the Greeks for some of their gods or inventions by the Romans for several of their gods.

Proving yet again, humans have always been spiritually connected, while nothing else in nature has ever been. So where did this "evolve" from? Why has it persisted as the most defining attribute of our particular species, yet not found anywhere else in nature? You claim it is the byproduct of sentience, but other animals have sentience, so it's not that. If this were true, we'd see some trace of spirituality in other upper primates, and we simply don't have any evidence whatsoever. Our "fear of death" is caused by our understanding of spiritual nature and the realization that something does exist beyond our physical realm. This is why you have trouble citing examples of other upper primates having to create security blankets and placebos for knowledge. They don't have spiritual connection and we do.

If your personal gods exist in your mind, then fine. I'm happy for you. I should advise you however that your personal conceptions of supernatural entities are no different than the conceptions of other supernatural entities other than what you wish to call your entities.

Spiritual nature is not supernatural. You continue to claim this without basis, because you refuse to accept the existence of spiritual nature. It is completely natural, not supernatural. It doesn't have a material existence that can be verified by physical science (at this time), but it has been a part of human nature as long as we've been humans.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Boss "God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy" If God is an energy which I believe he is would that not make God exist physically ?

Spiritual energy doesn't have physical or material existence as far as we know at this time. It is a reality that co-exists in our universe with physical nature. I leave the possibility open, that we may one day discover a way to verify this spiritual energy through physics, but at this time, we can't.

"Spiritual energy" is thus "magic energy".

It's existence is described by "magic".

Hollie you clearly don't understand the spiritual realm your posts clearly demonstrate that fact.

 

[daws101]

Okay, so now whenever someone thoroughly explains their views, that is an indication they are clueless? To bad my "walls of text" are too high for your stupid ass to climb or tear down. I guess you'll just have to sit down and play with your fellow monkey, Dorito, and pretend you are somebody.

another one of the million false assumptions you'll make today.
I have no problem being somebody I was born that way.
you on the other hand must have a problem with not being somebody. trying to make up for not being one of the cool kids ?

No, you were born a spiritual somebody, you have succeeded in becoming a Nihilist nobody... worm food in the making. I never needed or wanted to be one of the cool kids, but then, I never lost my spiritual connection. When you have no spiritual connection, being one of the cool kids is important and meaningful. This is why you place so much stock in such things. The problem with being a cool kid is this, one day you wake up and you're not a kid or cool anymore, you are just pathetic. #wellonyourway

another one of the million false assumptions you'll make today.

 

[Boss]

So living organisms are not a product of creation they just formed through natural processes ?

I didn't say that, did I? Personally, I believe spiritual nature created the universe and life, as well as physical nature itself. I just don't happen to believe the Christian incarnation of God the Creator, as depicted in The Bible. I have respect for those who have that belief, I don't dispute that it's possible, I just don't believe it personally. Now maybe when I die, I'll find out differently? If so, I will tell the God of Abraham he didn't do a very good job of convincing me, as I was spiritually connected my whole life. But I can only relate to what I am aware of personally, and that is a spiritual energy I connect with daily.

So Boss are you in to spiritualism ? because it is defined as a religion.

I don't believe in religious spiritualism, mine is a philosophical belief. I am aware of a spiritual nature around us, present in the same universe, but not material in existence. It doesn't care, because caring is a human attribute, it has no need to possess such an attribute. Does lightning care? Does it target people who sin? I don't think it does.

That said, spiritual nature is a positive energy flow, and it works to provide positive influences in our physical existence, if we allow it and connect to it spiritually. There are things we can do to disrupt the energy, things we commonly consider "bad" things, are not conducive with the positive energy flow, and disrupting it causes negative energy which is also an influence in our physical existence. Some have said this is akin to "karma" and I guess that is probably as close as I can come to defining it for you. Do good things, and good things will happen... do bad things, and bad things will happen.

I have experienced both sides of the spiritual realm the good and the evil how would you explain that ? I am sure you have as well.

Like I said, there is positive and negative spiritual energy. Both are present in our universe, and we as humans, have the capability to tap into either one.