Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Youwerecreated]

You resorted to plagiarism in the creationism thread as well daws eh ?

Post of plagiarism. http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/190358-creationists-1042.html#post6886253

Same ol source you use and don't credit. Amphora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

looks like you just broke you own rule...

Not me sorry but I am guessing you will credit your sources from now on and our conversations will shrink in size unless you continue to copy and paste from wiki.

 

[daws101]

No it doesn't require more than faith. Faith is all that is required.

Your fire analogy is flawed in the sense that the basic understanding of fire is knowing the ingredients needed to produce it (heat, fuel and oxygen). Understanding how heat passes from molecule to molecule and things like that has no bearing on a persons ability to use it.

(John20: 29 ) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

that's not an answer.
faith requires action ,that is to say when someone takes on a faith, SPECIFIC rules and regulations are applied, if a person declines to follow those rules and regs, they are ousted from that belief system.
so faith in and of itself is not enough.

Just where did I suggest faith required no action? Having faith is an action in that faith is believing what you can't see, prove or touch.

"Faith is all that is required"-LS.
you've just contradicted yourself.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

I don't know if he exists, but if he does and we're made in his image, god's a fucking retard.

Self esteem issue huh? ♫ ♫

yeah yours...

I thought you and your buddy think people like mom are pussies because they are agnostic. Sorry for the language to everyone else but I wanted to talk to daws on his LEVEL where he could understand.

Yep mom you're on the same level as a believer with the Ideologue Atheists like daws and His buddies.

 

[daws101]

So you're claiming they were your words ?

asked and answered.

Your classic dodge!

it would be but I don't dodge.
and I don't usually plagiarize other peoples work. a thing you do consistently!
besides DID you not put me on ignore?

 

[Youwerecreated]

It's easy to understand at a superficial level. But useful knowledge about how and why it works the way it does is another matter. It's like the difference between an early human's understanding of fire (basically, just how to start one) and a physicist's comprehension. That requires more than just 'faith'.

No it doesn't require more than faith. Faith is all that is required.

Your fire analogy is flawed in the sense that the basic understanding of fire is knowing the ingredients needed to produce it (heat, fuel and oxygen). Understanding how heat passes from molecule to molecule and things like that has no bearing on a persons ability to use it.

(John20: 29 ) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

that's not an answer.
faith requires action ,that is to say when someone takes on a faith, SPECIFIC rules and regulations are applied, if a person declines to follow those rules and regs, they are ousted from that belief system.
so faith in and of itself is not enough.

That might be so in your little cult that screwed you up. The one you're in now though will do more damage.

 

[daws101]

Why should I ? is there life out there ?

now you're contradicting yourself. you've yammered endlessly that earth is special and there is no life anywhere else. With absolutely no evidence of any kind.

the bible even refutes your bullshit:

Does the discovery of life on other planets contradict with religions?
answer:

No, if life is discovered on other planets then it will not contradict with religions.

Below are opinions from view points of different religions:

A. In the Islamic religion:
•It is mentioned in Quran, Muslim's holy book, that God (the Creator) is the Lord of all worlds. God says in Quran that God is the Lord of what we know and what we don't. God says in Quran that we have known only little. Accordingly, nothing in Quran or Islam religions contradicts with the possibility of discovering life on other planets. God says in Quran (meaning English translation):
•{In the name of Allah (God), the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. (1) [All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds...} [Quran, chapter 1, verse 1-2]
•{To Him belongs what is in the heavens and what is on the earth and what is between them and what is under the soil. (6)} [Quran, chapter 20, verse 6]
•{And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little." (85)} [Quran, chapter 17, verse 85]
•{The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts [Allah] by His praise, but you do not understand their [way of] exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving. (44)} [Quran, chapter 17, verse 44]
•There is a religious explanation, even before such discoveries, revise these verses:
{28. And He it is Who sendeth down the saving rain after they have despaired, and spreadeth out His mercy. He is the Protecting Friend, the Praiseworthy. 29. And of His portents is the creation of the heaven and the earth, and of whatever beasts He hath dispersed therein. And He is Able to gather them when He will.}[quoted from, Meanings of the Golrious Quran, by Marmaduke Pickthall]
Here the mention of Heavens and earth, meant the whole universe,
•{12. Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.}So, for certain there is life on other parts of the universe, whether we discovered this or not.




The above Quran verses confirm that we still don't know except a little and that God is the Creator of all worlds what we know and what we don't. Accordingly, discovering life on other planets doesn't contradict with Quran or with Islam religion.

B. In the Christian religion:
•There is nothing in the Bible that says God created life only on this planet. Doesn't even rule out other intelligent life in the universe. But after seeing the mess we created in this world, He would probably not try again.
•Most certainly. The Bible speaks nothing of life on other planets, though some may craft an explantion through through vague references and loose endings. However, the fact remains that would seriously hinder Christian credibility as an absolute religion whose implications are universal. What I think is more interesting is that this does not rule out the existence of God as creator, merely the existence of a God we thought we knew. This discovery would force us as an entire race to seriously question our faith - at least where we rest our faith - because a discovery like that would prove beyond doubt many religions false.
•The original unadulterated idea of God transmitted to us by Adam through Noah is one of having no form, no physical or natural bounds, one beyond perception and even conception (the imagination). That theology is completely invulnerable and impervious to a discovery of life at another location. Only theologies which are self (human)-centric could be weakened by such a discovery.
•Read the Scriptures as God speaks to Abraham. He says that he has created worlds without end. The Scriptures do not say that life and God's children are restricted to just this earth. If God would create one world where Billions have lived, why would He not create another place, where more of His children can be tested whether they will follow what is right or not. There are Christian churches that use other holy Christian writings as well as those gathered into 'The Bible'. Certain of those writings reveal that God has created "worlds without number" ... and "the inhabitants thereof are as numberless as the sands upon the seashore" [Moses 1:28] ... 'and the inhabitants thereof, are begotten sons and daughters unto God', ... "But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you ... For behold there are many worlds ..." [Moses 1:35] Here is also a scientific way to test the truthfulness of the Gospel. Put it to the test. Exercise a little faith, read the scriptures, pray about it and wait for answer. And when you receive the answer, feed it and let it grow. It's an experiment. Try it. (And to express an idea that God has killed millions is incorrect. We have the freedom to choose; it's a sacred right. We are judged by those choices. We are free to choose and those who have decided to murder suffer their choices.)
•The simple answer is no. God has no limits, and the only limit in religion is the mind of man, who is unable to comprehend this. The real answer is: the Baha'i Faith teaches that there are an infinity of other planets out there, and each is alive with God's creatures. They may be very unlike us, but they exist.
•For some religions, the answer would be "we already knew that". For most others, the answer would be "we already knew that, it's just that you misunderstood us before".
•I do not think that it would debunk religion. Science and religion serve VERY different needs of humanity, religion is a matter of faith; faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to understand our surroundings and has zero room for "faith". I do not think that religion and science are mutually exclusive.
•Actually, the Bible itself says there is intelligent life other than man. There are intelligent beings called angels, cherubim, seraphim, there are the four beasts which stand before the throne of God. The Bible is full of "life on other planets." Also, Christian writers in the last century wrote many sci-fi stories about encountering life on other planets, etc. Some were better than others, but the concept is not foreign to Orthodox Christianity. And if you incorporate Christian fantasy writings such as The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings, the treatment of the idea of intelligence other than man is even more fully developed. The "problem" posed by the possibility of life on other planets is mostly a moral question. If there are other beings, do they have to obey the same rules as we do? What if their religion were contradictory to ours? Would that challenge the truth of ours? If they experienced a "fall" as our first ancestors did, do they need redemption? In fact, I once heard about a sci-fi story written by a non-Christian author (I have not read it) in which humans land on a planet and Jesus is there getting ready to die on the cross. Several of the earthmen try to stop His execution but Jesus won't let them. He tells them it's necessary for Him to die there, just as He had to die on earth.
•In every single religious book eg. "Bible" it doesn't say that life doesn't exist on other planets. But in most religious books it states that there are nine planets eg. Mercury, which have life on them... Life being some form eg. Bacteria, not necessarily "Aliens" and in my personal opinion UFO's are a load of CRAP, you can see in UFO sighting pics and videos that its all rubbish. But religions' explanation would be along the lines of what it says in their religious books.
•The Bible does mention life in other planets that has not gotten corrupted by sin like in earth.

Does the discovery of life on other planets contradict with religions

this is another case of you. casting god in your own image.

If You want to believe in miracles be my guest.

that answer proves you misrepresent the bible.
it also has dick to do with what I posted.

 

[daws101]

Your math skills are poor as was pointed out in the other thread take a hike dumbass.

Your math skills are so poor and that is why you can't see truth concerning the receding moon.

http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/Moon_i...n_old_universe


Moon is receding at a rate too fast for an old universe



Claim

Because of tidal friction, the moon is receding, and the earth's rotation is slowing down, at rates too fast for the earth to be billions of years old.

Source
Barnes, Thomas G., 1982 (Aug.) Young age for the moon and earth. Impact 110. [1]
Scott M. Huse, The Collapse of Evolution, Chick Publications, 1984.

Responses
1.This linear extrapolation is incorrect.
2.Ignoring the case against such an extrapolation, the moon is currently receding at 3.8 cm/year and is 3.8*10^10 cm from the Earth. This allows perfectly well for a billion-year time scale.
3.According to Kepler's laws, the lower the distance between Earth and Moon the less time it takes for the moon to orbit the Earth. This means that the Moon orbited much faster in ancient times if it was much closer to Earth. Therefore the frequency of the tides were lower, because the difference of orbit time and the time of the rotation of the earth was lower (even if rotation was faster, because the relative time change of earth-rotation is less than relative orbit time change of the moon). Energy dissipation and the drag force on the Moon are dependent on the tidal frequency and the tidal strength, but even if the tidal strength was larger due to the closer Moon, the effect of the lower tidal frequency prevailed. This simply means that the Moon receded even slower in ancient times. E.g. in the extreme case when Earth and Moon are corotating, i.e. the Moon is so close that it circles the Earth in exactly the same time as the Earth revolves, the frequency of the tides would be zero, as would energy dissipation and drag force. The Moon would not recede at all, although the tides (which would then rather be permanent deformations of the Earth, being always at the same place) would be very high because of the close Moon.
4.The moon's recession and the Earth's slowing are perfectly consistent with them both being billions of years old. In fact, if you assume that the function is linear (it's not), you end up with an age for both Earth and the moon that is actually quite a lot older than they actually are. This is because the rate of the moon's recession and Earth's slowing spin is, itself, slowing down.
__________________

 

[Youwerecreated]

yeah yours...

She has a problem with my self esteem? Since you know so much then explain how that can be.

Or was your comment just a snide remark because you are incapable of anything more substantive?

God expects you to believe in him without ONE shred of evidence? Is this the gullibility test?

And you're forgetting about the REAl ruler of the universe, the great spaghetti monster. Why don't you believe in him?

Psa 19:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse proclaims His handiwork.

1Ch 16:24 Declare His glory among the heathen, His marvelous works among all nations.

 

[Youwerecreated]

that's not an answer.
faith requires action ,that is to say when someone takes on a faith, SPECIFIC rules and regulations are applied, if a person declines to follow those rules and regs, they are ousted from that belief system.
so faith in and of itself is not enough.

Just where did I suggest faith required no action? Having faith is an action in that faith is believing what you can't see, prove or touch.

"Faith is all that is required"-LS.
you've just contradicted yourself.

Faith is action numb nuts or did you just contradict yourself ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

asked and answered.

Your classic dodge!

it would be but I don't dodge.
and I don't usually plagiarize other peoples work. a thing you do consistently!
besides DID you not put me on ignore?

No I actually can debate the issues without having to copy and paste shall we see. Let's debate origins and I will argue why life could not have come in to existence absent of a designer and you argue how it happened naturally.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Your math skills are so poor and that is why you can't see truth concerning the receding moon.

http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/Moon_i...n_old_universe


Moon is receding at a rate too fast for an old universe



Claim

Because of tidal friction, the moon is receding, and the earth's rotation is slowing down, at rates too fast for the earth to be billions of years old.

Source
Barnes, Thomas G., 1982 (Aug.) Young age for the moon and earth. Impact 110. [1]
Scott M. Huse, The Collapse of Evolution, Chick Publications, 1984.

Responses
1.This linear extrapolation is incorrect.
2.Ignoring the case against such an extrapolation, the moon is currently receding at 3.8 cm/year and is 3.8*10^10 cm from the Earth. This allows perfectly well for a billion-year time scale.
3.According to Kepler's laws, the lower the distance between Earth and Moon the less time it takes for the moon to orbit the Earth. This means that the Moon orbited much faster in ancient times if it was much closer to Earth. Therefore the frequency of the tides were lower, because the difference of orbit time and the time of the rotation of the earth was lower (even if rotation was faster, because the relative time change of earth-rotation is less than relative orbit time change of the moon). Energy dissipation and the drag force on the Moon are dependent on the tidal frequency and the tidal strength, but even if the tidal strength was larger due to the closer Moon, the effect of the lower tidal frequency prevailed. This simply means that the Moon receded even slower in ancient times. E.g. in the extreme case when Earth and Moon are corotating, i.e. the Moon is so close that it circles the Earth in exactly the same time as the Earth revolves, the frequency of the tides would be zero, as would energy dissipation and drag force. The Moon would not recede at all, although the tides (which would then rather be permanent deformations of the Earth, being always at the same place) would be very high because of the close Moon.
4.The moon's recession and the Earth's slowing are perfectly consistent with them both being billions of years old. In fact, if you assume that the function is linear (it's not), you end up with an age for both Earth and the moon that is actually quite a lot older than they actually are. This is because the rate of the moon's recession and Earth's slowing spin is, itself, slowing down.
__________________

You never even read what I posted .1984 you could not do any better a lot has been learned since then.

 

[LittleNipper]

More proof that God exists and answers prayers protecting His own. Please see: Tornado birth: Mom endures labor as twister destroys hospital - Vitals

 

[dblack]

More proof that God exists and answers prayers protecting His own. Please see: Tornado birth: Mom endures labor as twister destroys hospital - Vitals

Hmm... so would all the stories where things didn't work out so well be proof that God doesn't exist, or simply doesn't give a shit?

It sort of reminds me of sports figures who thank God for their victories. Do the blame him for their losses?

 

[Mom]

She has a problem with my self esteem? Since you know so much then explain how that can be.

Or was your comment just a snide remark because you are incapable of anything more substantive?

God expects you to believe in him without ONE shred of evidence? Is this the gullibility test?

And you're forgetting about the REAl ruler of the universe, the great spaghetti monster. Why don't you believe in him?

Psa 19:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse proclaims His handiwork.

1Ch 16:24 Declare His glory among the heathen, His marvelous works among all nations.

So if I write a book about all the miracles that the Great Spaghetti Monster did, and everything he said and wanted humans to be and do, will you believe that as well?

 

[Hollie]

Your classic dodge!

it would be but I don't dodge.
and I don't usually plagiarize other peoples work. a thing you do consistently!
besides DID you not put me on ignore?

No I actually can debate the issues without having to copy and paste shall we see. Let's debate origins and I will argue why life could not have come in to existence absent of a designer and you argue how it happened naturally.

We've been there before. Your argument amounts to cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya and silliness from Christian fundie websites.

It's really laughable.

 

[Hollie]

More proof that God exists and answers prayers protecting His own. Please see: Tornado birth: Mom endures labor as twister destroys hospital - Vitals

Well yeah. Screw those other losers who actually die.

What a shame the gawds decided to play one-upsmanship in Oklahoma.

 

[Derideo_Te]

More proof that God exists and answers prayers protecting His own. Please see: Tornado birth: Mom endures labor as twister destroys hospital - Vitals

Are you saying that your God killing those 10 innocent children including a 4 month old and a 7 month old is proof that he exists? Whose prayers did he answer when he punished his followers by destroying their homes and possessions?

 

[Youwerecreated]

God expects you to believe in him without ONE shred of evidence? Is this the gullibility test?

And you're forgetting about the REAl ruler of the universe, the great spaghetti monster. Why don't you believe in him?

Psa 19:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse proclaims His handiwork.

1Ch 16:24 Declare His glory among the heathen, His marvelous works among all nations.

So if I write a book about all the miracles that the Great Spaghetti Monster did, and everything he said and wanted humans to be and do, will you believe that as well?

The bible can stand up to any scrutiny and pass all tests through it's history and the prophecies that are contained in it. What some don't consider is that the bible is in every language and languages have changed over the many years and the various versions try to say what was said better as languages have evolved.

If you really were searching for God you would find him. If you really wanted to see evidence of God you would see it in the works of his hands. What are the works of his hands it's all around you. Will you still believe the creator is Random chance and this random chance produced coincidence after coincidence which over time seems a little hard to believe with anyone with a rational mind ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

it would be but I don't dodge.
and I don't usually plagiarize other peoples work. a thing you do consistently!
besides DID you not put me on ignore?

No I actually can debate the issues without having to copy and paste shall we see. Let's debate origins and I will argue why life could not have come in to existence absent of a designer and you argue how it happened naturally.

We've been there before. Your argument amounts to cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya and silliness from Christian fundie websites.

It's really laughable.

The challenge goes out to both you and daws and let's see. You make your argument then I will offer a response and the same for me no copying pasting things you don't understand from talk origins or wiki. You explain your views and I explain mine.

 

[Youwerecreated]

More proof that God exists and answers prayers protecting His own. Please see: Tornado birth: Mom endures labor as twister destroys hospital - Vitals

Well yeah. Screw those other losers who actually die.

What a shame the gawds decided to play one-upsmanship in Oklahoma.

I do believe when something serves a purpose to the Almighty he acts otherwise he does allow bad things to happen he is offering you a choice do you desire this world of the unknown or the world coming that will lack ignorance.

About your comment the other day God did not create cancer your mechanism for evolution did. That is right mutations but what really produced cancer was man choosing to sin and perfection was lost.