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A single national primary day is a bad idea, but having national standards for primaries and every state having a primary long with other states of the same region and staggering those dates with a different regional order each election that is a great idea. I think it was CandyCorn that first posted it on another thread, though I'm sure she got the idea from somewhere else.Okay, I am going to personally address this question and discuss it, but I've been really busy for most of this afternoon and evening, and I'm honestly too tired to put that together. So I will come back tomorrow and pursue this. Meanwhile, I will provide this:
A National Primary Wouldn't Work - US News
I would add to this that there be no contributions or ads favoring a candidate legal by any for-profit corporations. Get the corporate money out of the system and most of this will right itself.
Again, NOT the government's business what private organizations do, nor should it be. The very idea that you're suggesting the federal government needs to extend its overreach and overcontrol into even more is repugnant.
I believe there are legitimate arguments for why the government should be paying for parts of the election process. But I will cede a point to you: The people should be debating when, how, and if it should be done; and also the way it is done, or even it it should be done.I am suggesting CITIZENS take action. The only action I would suggest the government take is to get their damn hands out of my pockets and stop using my tax dollars to pay for these 'private orgaizations' candidate selection 'frat parties'!A single national primary day is a bad idea, but having national standards for primaries and every state having a primary long with other states of the same region and staggering those dates with a different regional order each election that is a great idea. I think it was CandyCorn that first posted it on another thread, though I'm sure she got the idea from somewhere else.Okay, I am going to personally address this question and discuss it, but I've been really busy for most of this afternoon and evening, and I'm honestly too tired to put that together. So I will come back tomorrow and pursue this. Meanwhile, I will provide this:
A National Primary Wouldn't Work - US News
I would add to this that there be no contributions or ads favoring a candidate legal by any for-profit corporations. Get the corporate money out of the system and most of this will right itself.
Again, NOT the government's business what private organizations do, nor should it be. The very idea that you're suggesting the federal government needs to extend its overreach and overcontrol into even more is repugnant.
Why shouldn't Congress set rules for the Parties who are currently in control of a Constitutional right?The parties get taxpayer funding in the general hence the corrupt bastards are not free to do whatever the hell they want.
The candidates get funding, not the parties. The parties don't control the money, the candidate does. Can the government control your business if one of your investors gets welfare?
Since the party controls the candidate and the candidate is bought and paid for by the party, well there you have it.
Well, wow, that's your opinion, clearly a justification for government to take over parties and tell them how to operate. Due process schmu process
To be a relevant analogy, the parties would have to control whether you get to vote in the general election or not. The parties themselves aren't government, you don't get to control themWhat would be your reaction if there was a group not specified in the Constitution controlling who gets a gun or not, based solely on their whims?
1) Benghazi - So we shouldn't investigate what happened because you generally support the President? Ridiculous
2) Defending Fluke sure makes it sound like, you know, you're supporting her position ...
3) Wasn't in contention
4) You withdrew, I accept
5) Obama - Saying that criticizing Obama for any debt means we're criticizing him for all our national debt is ridiculous, you explain what that means how it's not pro-Democrat
6) I lied? Here you go:
Comparing any religion to the Islamic carnage across the world is preposterous
7) No Mormon - You hate the religion so you hate every individual in the religion? Typical Democrat bigotry
General. Yes, you explained why you "hate" Democrats. What you didn't explain is why you keep supporting their positions, other than inheritance, anyway. And seriously, your claim it was Bush/Gore that flipped you? Seriously? Bush/Gore flipped you where the SC just said the Florida recount had to follow Florida law after Democrats personally fucked you? Really?
Look.. It is clear that you are desperate to prove a point. Unfortunately you are wrong and your point is not going to get any better flogging it.
Compounding your stubbornness is your reading comprehension skills which are very sad. There is a distinct difference between supporting the man and respecting the office. I do not HATE Obama. Because a few republicans keep ginning up the ObamaHateMill? Sorry, I can think for myself. I can process information just fine thank you. Contrary to many here on USMB that have been running around with their hair on fire for 7 and a half years sceaming that Obama has destroyed the country it simply isn't true. The economy has improved steadily. The recovery we have enjoyed is more robust than in any part of the globe. Stating otherwise is just simply ignoring the truth.
As unfortunate as Benghazi was many have been led by the nose to proclaim the misreporting of the cause of that attack as the worst thing that has EVER occurred in U S history. So sorry again you idjits..it's not even in the top 100... Not even in the top 1000! And the e-mail BS? God save you people if you ever get a hangnail! Good grief! I get it that you feel obligated to disparage Clinton and the dems at every possible opportunity but guess what! I just don't care! I can think of a million things better to do with my time than to be constantly nipping at Hillary's and Obama's heels.
You are just poor losers plain and simple. Here is a plan.. promote better candidates to the American public and you will win. THEN you can take a big breath and drop your whiny crybaby mommy took away your binky routine.
I am not a poor sport. The public voted they way they did INSPITE of Citizens United and the Koch brothers fortune so what does that tell you? The GOP's candidates SUCK!!! But NNNOOOooo...!!!! You guys don't get it! You would rather have a seven and a half year hissy fit than address the REAL problem.
Here is a clue! Go find yourselves an Eisenhower or a Goldwater that inspires the majority of American voters and all your problems will be solved.
As for "the Morman".. Romney is a Bishop in the Morman church. Why not just cut to the chase and elect the friggin POPE as our CIC????? What is it about the words I HATE RELIGION that you do not understand????
Remember not so long ago I explained why I absolutely detest the dems and libs??? Well guess what! I love my family and after I left Orcas Island to strike out on my own early in high school BOTH of my brothers were BEATEN for not participating in reciting christian prayers in the classroom of Nellie S Milton School. Fuck religion!!!!!!!!! Fuck it all in the ASS!!!!! Like I have said MANY times IT IS PERSONAL!!!
As for Fluke.. I tried to make it clear that since I don't sport a C*NT most women's issues are non of my friggin business.
#5???? I never said any such thing. I have no idea what you are referring to.
#6 Fundamentalism in religion is believing in and acting on fairy tales.. many written when most people believed the sun revlolved around the earth.. IMHO that is just the epitome of foolishness. Criticizing me for rejecting that kind of stupidity doesn't deserve an answer.
Gotcha, if I respond to our posts, I'm "desperate to prove a point." So what point are you desperate to prove since you're responding to mine?
As for the voices in your head, I never said Benghazi rated anywhere on the most important lists much less that it was #1 or top 100 or anything, so I don't know what you're talking about. Clearly the military said different things than the administration. Hell yeah that should be investigated. I don't think the White House or Hillary intentionally murdered those four people, but I think they did underplay the response for diplomatic reasons and they covered that up. Ask Nixon if covering ups matter.
As for Fluke, first of all, she made her sex life public discussion by demanding free contraceptives. And no one is saying what she should do regarding rolling in the hay. Your answer is ridiculous, the question is if we should have to pay for it or not. That is clearly our business. You don't have to have a vagina to have the view that what she does with it is her business, but it should be on her own nickle or between herself and her insurance company, not government to use force to make other people pay for it.
And despite your further explanations on why you agree with the left on every issue we discuss, you continue to agree with the left on every issue. You hate the left for fucking you and your family, but the SC making the Florida courts follow Florida law turned you for them? That's ridiculous. As is that the SC decision made you not want to investigate Democrats Presidents, the SC made you support government forcing us all to pay for contraceptives, the SC made you think Christian extremists are doing as much harm as Muslims ones.
Dude, you can chose to not be a Democrat, but if you don't chose that and claim you did, you're in a position to be informed of that.
And you called me a liar for saying you didn't say other religious radicals are as destructive as Muslim ones, and I showed you the quote. Man up to an apology on that one point at least
Dubya is reported by excellent sources as believing that god speaks to him and upon that advice decided to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. You obviously have chosen to believe in America "right or wrong" and like the good/stupid christian you are ... "forgiven" Bush his sins. I consider Georgy Porgy as a born again dry drunk christian fundamentalist. If raining bombs down on another country/s out of anger and revenge isn't a grossly misplaced "an eye for an eye" I just frankly do not know what is.
Let me ask you this question. Would there have been a single terrorist attack on our country save Tim McVeigh if we had not invaded Iraq TWICE and Afghanistan to take out Bin Ladin which of course we failed to do..HOW pathetic was THAT?
"Dude" You don't have a fucking clue what I am about. You think you have some reason to challenge me on dems vs GOP or you would not be wasting both of our time.
As for my responses, I get to have the last word on me... you do not. The fanatic christians on Orcas didn't bother me a lick even though I was FAR more vocal about their stupid religion than my bro's. Maybe it was the time I stuck my 303 British enfield in my older cousin's face when he came drunk to our house and offered to give me the ass whoopin I deserved. Small community.. word got around. Or maybe it was the year of YOUR lord 1960 when on the first day of deer season I took same rifle and shot the biggest buck on the island from THREE FEET. The damned thing was more than three times as big as I was. That too got around. NTS I am an excellent hunter and outdoorsman. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid and shot a young rabbit nearly every morning before the school bus showed up to feed my bird. That was with the 22 single shot. With rabbits you only get one shot. My republican father gave me all the guns I ever needed at 10 and 11. I made him and my gramps proud with my hunting and fishing skills. And since I am on the subject.. late one summer, when dad was visiting up on the Island, cuz he mostly was travelling the world for the Boeing Co, We heard some rifle shots coming from the back 40 and he took the 303 back to see what was going on. Next thing you know is he came running out of the woods yelling that he was shot at. Before another word was exchanged I picked up the gun and headed back where he had come from to take my "shot" at defending our land.
I snuck back deep into the alders and firs and discovered two deer hunters attempting to poach. I stealthed right up behind the big fat one and jammed the mussel right into his neck. Not to prolong the story..so I won't.
I've been dealing with ignorant yahoo's all my life. They can't help being stupid..it's genetic. Unlike the thieving libs and dems. They are smart..so smart they believe that they are more deserving of what is yours than you,, or me.
True it is very likely our political leanings have come from different circumstances. You seem to have re-invented yours while I am stubbornly clinging to my natural republican roots. The way I see it the GOP has abandoned both of us.
I agree with your conclusion. I realized that when I left the party over 25 years ago. I opposed the Iraq war and nation building in Afghanistan, but I don't see what that has to do with not investigating Benghazi. We know about Benghazi that the White House lied about it and Hillary lied about it. They were saying long after everyone knew that the video was not the cause of the attack that it was.
And Hillary certainly lied when she said the Ambassador told her everything was good while he was requesting help from everyone else. I don't think they did it to intentionally kill the people who died, but I do think they didn't want to send force because of Obama's support of the Libyan overthrow. It is totally worth finding out what happened
Maybe as a curiosity. Look, shit happens in war and sometimes even in peace that is difficult to pin down and diagram as if we could get all the facts anyway. Sometimes the truth is just too elusive. If it pleases you to go to your grave pursuing that event to some finite detail, go for it. If she lied to cover hers or Obama's ass then that's what happened. I know ONE thing for a fact that our ambassador dug his own grave by not planting his fag ass in the EMBASSY guarded by he Marines. If you think for some reason that we could have saved the stupid fuck then PROVE IT.. No wait! Don't bother on my account. Stupid people die in bad places. I don't give a rat's ass about him.
Who "thanks" you more, the right or the left? We both know the answer to that one
What are you? A junior high daddy's girl bitch? I could not care any less what mosy people here or anywhere think of my input. In spite of that you can see for yourself my ratings are in the several thousands.
The "average" voter doesn't come here to talk politics. There are 320 million plus Americans and 36 thousand + members at USMB.. and only seriously a handfull of that number active participants. Frankly I get most of my thank you's from independent thinkers with higher education than from the knuckle draggers that cannot or will not think for themselves. Many of the more active posters here are devout religious followers so as one would expect I have alienated them. Big whoop! The Flat Earth Society's opinions are not really my concern.
Exactly, you get them from leftists who agree with you, they agree with you because ...
Give it up cupcake. You don't get to decide a damned thing for me.
Strawman, never tried. But I do challenge the endless list of Democrats who claim to be a Republican. There is nothing Republican about defending a Democrat President from the consequences of his own action. There is nothing Republican about demanding government force other people to pay women's contraception. There is nothing wrong with supporting the canard that extremists from any other religion are remotely doing what Muslim extremists are doing.
Anyway, as I point out, who is thanking your posts tells you what you are supporting. If you're honest about thinking you're a Republican, then that should bother you. Democrats are the party you claim to hate because they fucked you, yet you're carrying their water for them. And they're recognizing and thanking you for it
You know...I have never tally'd up a list of the thousands of thanks and agree's. It just happens. Maybe it's just because I make sense at times. You do realize that we here are for the most part AMERICANS.. right? It isn't a crime to agree with another American if what they say is party neutral and good for the country.
If you choose to have some on going witch hunt over who you think is faking a party affiliation as if it really matters then by all means have a good time. It's your picknic. To me the only real tale of the tape is how one votes. Whining about the results is crying over spilt milk. By THEN it is too late. If you HATE every American that votes dem then get your ass out there and push for the GOP house to house. You will accomplish much more that way than wasting your time bitching at me.
Parties are not in charge / control of Constitutional rights. They can not prevent you from voting in the GENERAL election, but they can prevent you from voting in their party primary process. It was just done in 2 states.Why shouldn't Congress set rules for the Parties who are currently in control of a Constitutional right?The parties get taxpayer funding in the general hence the corrupt bastards are not free to do whatever the hell they want.
The candidates get funding, not the parties. The parties don't control the money, the candidate does. Can the government control your business if one of your investors gets welfare?
Since the party controls the candidate and the candidate is bought and paid for by the party, well there you have it.
Well, wow, that's your opinion, clearly a justification for government to take over parties and tell them how to operate. Due process schmu process
Parties are in control of a "Constitutional right?" What does that mean?
To be a relevant analogy, the parties would have to control whether you get to vote in the general election or not. The parties themselves aren't government, you don't get to control themWhat would be your reaction if there was a group not specified in the Constitution controlling who gets a gun or not, based solely on their whims?
Parties are not in charge / control of Constitutional rights. They can not prevent you from voting in the GENERAL election, but they can prevent you from voting in their party primary process. It was just done in 2 states.Why shouldn't Congress set rules for the Parties who are currently in control of a Constitutional right?The candidates get funding, not the parties. The parties don't control the money, the candidate does. Can the government control your business if one of your investors gets welfare?
Since the party controls the candidate and the candidate is bought and paid for by the party, well there you have it.
Well, wow, that's your opinion, clearly a justification for government to take over parties and tell them how to operate. Due process schmu process
Parties are in control of a "Constitutional right?" What does that mean?
To be a relevant analogy, the parties would have to control whether you get to vote in the general election or not. The parties themselves aren't government, you don't get to control themWhat would be your reaction if there was a group not specified in the Constitution controlling who gets a gun or not, based solely on their whims?
Look.. It is clear that you are desperate to prove a point. Unfortunately you are wrong and your point is not going to get any better flogging it.
Compounding your stubbornness is your reading comprehension skills which are very sad. There is a distinct difference between supporting the man and respecting the office. I do not HATE Obama. Because a few republicans keep ginning up the ObamaHateMill? Sorry, I can think for myself. I can process information just fine thank you. Contrary to many here on USMB that have been running around with their hair on fire for 7 and a half years sceaming that Obama has destroyed the country it simply isn't true. The economy has improved steadily. The recovery we have enjoyed is more robust than in any part of the globe. Stating otherwise is just simply ignoring the truth.
As unfortunate as Benghazi was many have been led by the nose to proclaim the misreporting of the cause of that attack as the worst thing that has EVER occurred in U S history. So sorry again you idjits..it's not even in the top 100... Not even in the top 1000! And the e-mail BS? God save you people if you ever get a hangnail! Good grief! I get it that you feel obligated to disparage Clinton and the dems at every possible opportunity but guess what! I just don't care! I can think of a million things better to do with my time than to be constantly nipping at Hillary's and Obama's heels.
You are just poor losers plain and simple. Here is a plan.. promote better candidates to the American public and you will win. THEN you can take a big breath and drop your whiny crybaby mommy took away your binky routine.
I am not a poor sport. The public voted they way they did INSPITE of Citizens United and the Koch brothers fortune so what does that tell you? The GOP's candidates SUCK!!! But NNNOOOooo...!!!! You guys don't get it! You would rather have a seven and a half year hissy fit than address the REAL problem.
Here is a clue! Go find yourselves an Eisenhower or a Goldwater that inspires the majority of American voters and all your problems will be solved.
As for "the Morman".. Romney is a Bishop in the Morman church. Why not just cut to the chase and elect the friggin POPE as our CIC????? What is it about the words I HATE RELIGION that you do not understand????
Remember not so long ago I explained why I absolutely detest the dems and libs??? Well guess what! I love my family and after I left Orcas Island to strike out on my own early in high school BOTH of my brothers were BEATEN for not participating in reciting christian prayers in the classroom of Nellie S Milton School. Fuck religion!!!!!!!!! Fuck it all in the ASS!!!!! Like I have said MANY times IT IS PERSONAL!!!
As for Fluke.. I tried to make it clear that since I don't sport a C*NT most women's issues are non of my friggin business.
#5???? I never said any such thing. I have no idea what you are referring to.
#6 Fundamentalism in religion is believing in and acting on fairy tales.. many written when most people believed the sun revlolved around the earth.. IMHO that is just the epitome of foolishness. Criticizing me for rejecting that kind of stupidity doesn't deserve an answer.
Gotcha, if I respond to our posts, I'm "desperate to prove a point." So what point are you desperate to prove since you're responding to mine?
As for the voices in your head, I never said Benghazi rated anywhere on the most important lists much less that it was #1 or top 100 or anything, so I don't know what you're talking about. Clearly the military said different things than the administration. Hell yeah that should be investigated. I don't think the White House or Hillary intentionally murdered those four people, but I think they did underplay the response for diplomatic reasons and they covered that up. Ask Nixon if covering ups matter.
As for Fluke, first of all, she made her sex life public discussion by demanding free contraceptives. And no one is saying what she should do regarding rolling in the hay. Your answer is ridiculous, the question is if we should have to pay for it or not. That is clearly our business. You don't have to have a vagina to have the view that what she does with it is her business, but it should be on her own nickle or between herself and her insurance company, not government to use force to make other people pay for it.
And despite your further explanations on why you agree with the left on every issue we discuss, you continue to agree with the left on every issue. You hate the left for fucking you and your family, but the SC making the Florida courts follow Florida law turned you for them? That's ridiculous. As is that the SC decision made you not want to investigate Democrats Presidents, the SC made you support government forcing us all to pay for contraceptives, the SC made you think Christian extremists are doing as much harm as Muslims ones.
Dude, you can chose to not be a Democrat, but if you don't chose that and claim you did, you're in a position to be informed of that.
And you called me a liar for saying you didn't say other religious radicals are as destructive as Muslim ones, and I showed you the quote. Man up to an apology on that one point at least
Dubya is reported by excellent sources as believing that god speaks to him and upon that advice decided to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. You obviously have chosen to believe in America "right or wrong" and like the good/stupid christian you are ... "forgiven" Bush his sins. I consider Georgy Porgy as a born again dry drunk christian fundamentalist. If raining bombs down on another country/s out of anger and revenge isn't a grossly misplaced "an eye for an eye" I just frankly do not know what is.
Let me ask you this question. Would there have been a single terrorist attack on our country save Tim McVeigh if we had not invaded Iraq TWICE and Afghanistan to take out Bin Ladin which of course we failed to do..HOW pathetic was THAT?
"Dude" You don't have a fucking clue what I am about. You think you have some reason to challenge me on dems vs GOP or you would not be wasting both of our time.
As for my responses, I get to have the last word on me... you do not. The fanatic christians on Orcas didn't bother me a lick even though I was FAR more vocal about their stupid religion than my bro's. Maybe it was the time I stuck my 303 British enfield in my older cousin's face when he came drunk to our house and offered to give me the ass whoopin I deserved. Small community.. word got around. Or maybe it was the year of YOUR lord 1960 when on the first day of deer season I took same rifle and shot the biggest buck on the island from THREE FEET. The damned thing was more than three times as big as I was. That too got around. NTS I am an excellent hunter and outdoorsman. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid and shot a young rabbit nearly every morning before the school bus showed up to feed my bird. That was with the 22 single shot. With rabbits you only get one shot. My republican father gave me all the guns I ever needed at 10 and 11. I made him and my gramps proud with my hunting and fishing skills. And since I am on the subject.. late one summer, when dad was visiting up on the Island, cuz he mostly was travelling the world for the Boeing Co, We heard some rifle shots coming from the back 40 and he took the 303 back to see what was going on. Next thing you know is he came running out of the woods yelling that he was shot at. Before another word was exchanged I picked up the gun and headed back where he had come from to take my "shot" at defending our land.
I snuck back deep into the alders and firs and discovered two deer hunters attempting to poach. I stealthed right up behind the big fat one and jammed the mussel right into his neck. Not to prolong the story..so I won't.
I've been dealing with ignorant yahoo's all my life. They can't help being stupid..it's genetic. Unlike the thieving libs and dems. They are smart..so smart they believe that they are more deserving of what is yours than you,, or me.
True it is very likely our political leanings have come from different circumstances. You seem to have re-invented yours while I am stubbornly clinging to my natural republican roots. The way I see it the GOP has abandoned both of us.
I agree with your conclusion. I realized that when I left the party over 25 years ago. I opposed the Iraq war and nation building in Afghanistan, but I don't see what that has to do with not investigating Benghazi. We know about Benghazi that the White House lied about it and Hillary lied about it. They were saying long after everyone knew that the video was not the cause of the attack that it was.
And Hillary certainly lied when she said the Ambassador told her everything was good while he was requesting help from everyone else. I don't think they did it to intentionally kill the people who died, but I do think they didn't want to send force because of Obama's support of the Libyan overthrow. It is totally worth finding out what happened
Maybe as a curiosity. Look, shit happens in war and sometimes even in peace that is difficult to pin down and diagram as if we could get all the facts anyway. Sometimes the truth is just too elusive. If it pleases you to go to your grave pursuing that event to some finite detail, go for it. If she lied to cover hers or Obama's ass then that's what happened. I know ONE thing for a fact that our ambassador dug his own grave by not planting his fag ass in the EMBASSY guarded by he Marines. If you think for some reason that we could have saved the stupid fuck then PROVE IT.. No wait! Don't bother on my account. Stupid people die in bad places. I don't give a rat's ass about him.
So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it? Seriously? It's highly relevant if for political reasons they didn't try, which certainly appears to have been the case. In the end, it appears to have been managed horribly, but there don't seem to have been any crimes committed, other than the Administration covering it up ...
What are you? A junior high daddy's girl bitch? I could not care any less what mosy people here or anywhere think of my input. In spite of that you can see for yourself my ratings are in the several thousands.
The "average" voter doesn't come here to talk politics. There are 320 million plus Americans and 36 thousand + members at USMB.. and only seriously a handfull of that number active participants. Frankly I get most of my thank you's from independent thinkers with higher education than from the knuckle draggers that cannot or will not think for themselves. Many of the more active posters here are devout religious followers so as one would expect I have alienated them. Big whoop! The Flat Earth Society's opinions are not really my concern.
Exactly, you get them from leftists who agree with you, they agree with you because ...
Give it up cupcake. You don't get to decide a damned thing for me.
Strawman, never tried. But I do challenge the endless list of Democrats who claim to be a Republican. There is nothing Republican about defending a Democrat President from the consequences of his own action. There is nothing Republican about demanding government force other people to pay women's contraception. There is nothing wrong with supporting the canard that extremists from any other religion are remotely doing what Muslim extremists are doing.
Anyway, as I point out, who is thanking your posts tells you what you are supporting. If you're honest about thinking you're a Republican, then that should bother you. Democrats are the party you claim to hate because they fucked you, yet you're carrying their water for them. And they're recognizing and thanking you for it
You know...I have never tally'd up a list of the thousands of thanks and agree's. It just happens. Maybe it's just because I make sense at times. You do realize that we here are for the most part AMERICANS.. right? It isn't a crime to agree with another American if what they say is party neutral and good for the country.
If you choose to have some on going witch hunt over who you think is faking a party affiliation as if it really matters then by all means have a good time. It's your picknic. To me the only real tale of the tape is how one votes. Whining about the results is crying over spilt milk. By THEN it is too late. If you HATE every American that votes dem then get your ass out there and push for the GOP house to house. You will accomplish much more that way than wasting your time bitching at me.
I think it's pretty disproportionately left and you'd admit that if you were honest. So think about it, the party that you hate, who fucked you and your family, the people who continue to strongly support that policy, they are thanking you for continually agreeing with them. Remind me to not worry about you getting pissed at me ...
According to you, voters don't get to decide the nominees from the two Parties? They only have a right to choose between two people that private organizations have chosen?Why shouldn't Congress set rules for the Parties who are currently in control of a Constitutional right?The parties get taxpayer funding in the general hence the corrupt bastards are not free to do whatever the hell they want.
The candidates get funding, not the parties. The parties don't control the money, the candidate does. Can the government control your business if one of your investors gets welfare?
Since the party controls the candidate and the candidate is bought and paid for by the party, well there you have it.
Well, wow, that's your opinion, clearly a justification for government to take over parties and tell them how to operate. Due process schmu process
Parties are in control of a "Constitutional right?" What does that mean?
To be a relevant analogy, the parties would have to control whether you get to vote in the general election or not. The parties themselves aren't government, you don't get to control themWhat would be your reaction if there was a group not specified in the Constitution controlling who gets a gun or not, based solely on their whims?
Gotcha, if I respond to our posts, I'm "desperate to prove a point." So what point are you desperate to prove since you're responding to mine?
As for the voices in your head, I never said Benghazi rated anywhere on the most important lists much less that it was #1 or top 100 or anything, so I don't know what you're talking about. Clearly the military said different things than the administration. Hell yeah that should be investigated. I don't think the White House or Hillary intentionally murdered those four people, but I think they did underplay the response for diplomatic reasons and they covered that up. Ask Nixon if covering ups matter.
As for Fluke, first of all, she made her sex life public discussion by demanding free contraceptives. And no one is saying what she should do regarding rolling in the hay. Your answer is ridiculous, the question is if we should have to pay for it or not. That is clearly our business. You don't have to have a vagina to have the view that what she does with it is her business, but it should be on her own nickle or between herself and her insurance company, not government to use force to make other people pay for it.
And despite your further explanations on why you agree with the left on every issue we discuss, you continue to agree with the left on every issue. You hate the left for fucking you and your family, but the SC making the Florida courts follow Florida law turned you for them? That's ridiculous. As is that the SC decision made you not want to investigate Democrats Presidents, the SC made you support government forcing us all to pay for contraceptives, the SC made you think Christian extremists are doing as much harm as Muslims ones.
Dude, you can chose to not be a Democrat, but if you don't chose that and claim you did, you're in a position to be informed of that.
And you called me a liar for saying you didn't say other religious radicals are as destructive as Muslim ones, and I showed you the quote. Man up to an apology on that one point at least
Dubya is reported by excellent sources as believing that god speaks to him and upon that advice decided to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. You obviously have chosen to believe in America "right or wrong" and like the good/stupid christian you are ... "forgiven" Bush his sins. I consider Georgy Porgy as a born again dry drunk christian fundamentalist. If raining bombs down on another country/s out of anger and revenge isn't a grossly misplaced "an eye for an eye" I just frankly do not know what is.
Let me ask you this question. Would there have been a single terrorist attack on our country save Tim McVeigh if we had not invaded Iraq TWICE and Afghanistan to take out Bin Ladin which of course we failed to do..HOW pathetic was THAT?
"Dude" You don't have a fucking clue what I am about. You think you have some reason to challenge me on dems vs GOP or you would not be wasting both of our time.
As for my responses, I get to have the last word on me... you do not. The fanatic christians on Orcas didn't bother me a lick even though I was FAR more vocal about their stupid religion than my bro's. Maybe it was the time I stuck my 303 British enfield in my older cousin's face when he came drunk to our house and offered to give me the ass whoopin I deserved. Small community.. word got around. Or maybe it was the year of YOUR lord 1960 when on the first day of deer season I took same rifle and shot the biggest buck on the island from THREE FEET. The damned thing was more than three times as big as I was. That too got around. NTS I am an excellent hunter and outdoorsman. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid and shot a young rabbit nearly every morning before the school bus showed up to feed my bird. That was with the 22 single shot. With rabbits you only get one shot. My republican father gave me all the guns I ever needed at 10 and 11. I made him and my gramps proud with my hunting and fishing skills. And since I am on the subject.. late one summer, when dad was visiting up on the Island, cuz he mostly was travelling the world for the Boeing Co, We heard some rifle shots coming from the back 40 and he took the 303 back to see what was going on. Next thing you know is he came running out of the woods yelling that he was shot at. Before another word was exchanged I picked up the gun and headed back where he had come from to take my "shot" at defending our land.
I snuck back deep into the alders and firs and discovered two deer hunters attempting to poach. I stealthed right up behind the big fat one and jammed the mussel right into his neck. Not to prolong the story..so I won't.
I've been dealing with ignorant yahoo's all my life. They can't help being stupid..it's genetic. Unlike the thieving libs and dems. They are smart..so smart they believe that they are more deserving of what is yours than you,, or me.
True it is very likely our political leanings have come from different circumstances. You seem to have re-invented yours while I am stubbornly clinging to my natural republican roots. The way I see it the GOP has abandoned both of us.
I agree with your conclusion. I realized that when I left the party over 25 years ago. I opposed the Iraq war and nation building in Afghanistan, but I don't see what that has to do with not investigating Benghazi. We know about Benghazi that the White House lied about it and Hillary lied about it. They were saying long after everyone knew that the video was not the cause of the attack that it was.
And Hillary certainly lied when she said the Ambassador told her everything was good while he was requesting help from everyone else. I don't think they did it to intentionally kill the people who died, but I do think they didn't want to send force because of Obama's support of the Libyan overthrow. It is totally worth finding out what happened
Maybe as a curiosity. Look, shit happens in war and sometimes even in peace that is difficult to pin down and diagram as if we could get all the facts anyway. Sometimes the truth is just too elusive. If it pleases you to go to your grave pursuing that event to some finite detail, go for it. If she lied to cover hers or Obama's ass then that's what happened. I know ONE thing for a fact that our ambassador dug his own grave by not planting his fag ass in the EMBASSY guarded by he Marines. If you think for some reason that we could have saved the stupid fuck then PROVE IT.. No wait! Don't bother on my account. Stupid people die in bad places. I don't give a rat's ass about him.
So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it? Seriously? It's highly relevant if for political reasons they didn't try, which certainly appears to have been the case. In the end, it appears to have been managed horribly, but there don't seem to have been any crimes committed, other than the Administration covering it up ...
"So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it?"
You REALLY do have problems with basic understanding of the English language don't you. No! What I meant for you to understand is that you should go ahead and investigate it to your heart's content. When and if you find something worth the general public knowing then by all means report it. If your enthusiasm for this "mission" is just speculation please try to stay out from under people's feet. Your "tin foil hat" is not some special entitlement to bring everyone's/anyone's life to a grinding halt. There have already been several congressional hearings on the matter. Not enough? I am more than satisfied that enough energy and resources have been consumed on this matter.
Exactly, you get them from leftists who agree with you, they agree with you because ...
Give it up cupcake. You don't get to decide a damned thing for me.
Strawman, never tried. But I do challenge the endless list of Democrats who claim to be a Republican. There is nothing Republican about defending a Democrat President from the consequences of his own action. There is nothing Republican about demanding government force other people to pay women's contraception. There is nothing wrong with supporting the canard that extremists from any other religion are remotely doing what Muslim extremists are doing.
Anyway, as I point out, who is thanking your posts tells you what you are supporting. If you're honest about thinking you're a Republican, then that should bother you. Democrats are the party you claim to hate because they fucked you, yet you're carrying their water for them. And they're recognizing and thanking you for it
You know...I have never tally'd up a list of the thousands of thanks and agree's. It just happens. Maybe it's just because I make sense at times. You do realize that we here are for the most part AMERICANS.. right? It isn't a crime to agree with another American if what they say is party neutral and good for the country.
If you choose to have some on going witch hunt over who you think is faking a party affiliation as if it really matters then by all means have a good time. It's your picknic. To me the only real tale of the tape is how one votes. Whining about the results is crying over spilt milk. By THEN it is too late. If you HATE every American that votes dem then get your ass out there and push for the GOP house to house. You will accomplish much more that way than wasting your time bitching at me.
I think it's pretty disproportionately left and you'd admit that if you were honest. So think about it, the party that you hate, who fucked you and your family, the people who continue to strongly support that policy, they are thanking you for continually agreeing with them. Remind me to not worry about you getting pissed at me ...
OK I am starting to understand that you are a paranoid schizophrenic. You obviously cannot help yourself.
My complaints with the current and recent(2-3 decades) direction taken by the GOP what with the fundamental christian over reaching and the systematic ass kissing of so called U S corporations which are in fact multi nationals has drawn some actual libs to thank some of my posts. They probably do so misunderstanding me the same way you do thinking any crumb they come across is a trail to a goldmine.
Many of my posts are/have been generally about the need to support American manufacturers and the survival of American business and American jobs. For the last couple of decades I have been involved with machining so I have a particular hard on against out sourcing and the destruction of U S manufacturing businesses and jobs. Having been a farm boy I have been very much against 3M and their destruction of family farming by patenting and prosecuting accidental cross planting. It is deplorable as it is intended to force compliance to buy their seed product. I get thanks from many sources for many reasons. Stop trying to bully me into accepting your accusations as true. Just keep it between yourself and your psychiatrist.
According to you, voters don't get to decide the nominees from the two Parties? They only have a right to choose between two people that private organizations have chosen?Why shouldn't Congress set rules for the Parties who are currently in control of a Constitutional right?The candidates get funding, not the parties. The parties don't control the money, the candidate does. Can the government control your business if one of your investors gets welfare?
Since the party controls the candidate and the candidate is bought and paid for by the party, well there you have it.
Well, wow, that's your opinion, clearly a justification for government to take over parties and tell them how to operate. Due process schmu process
Parties are in control of a "Constitutional right?" What does that mean?
To be a relevant analogy, the parties would have to control whether you get to vote in the general election or not. The parties themselves aren't government, you don't get to control themWhat would be your reaction if there was a group not specified in the Constitution controlling who gets a gun or not, based solely on their whims?
Considering how our government operates I'd actually second this...it is perfectly normal to have a rigged cluster fuck.In that case you are saying it's a perfectly normal rigged cluster fuckRigged cluster fuck or perfectly normal?
Both
Dubya is reported by excellent sources as believing that god speaks to him and upon that advice decided to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. You obviously have chosen to believe in America "right or wrong" and like the good/stupid christian you are ... "forgiven" Bush his sins. I consider Georgy Porgy as a born again dry drunk christian fundamentalist. If raining bombs down on another country/s out of anger and revenge isn't a grossly misplaced "an eye for an eye" I just frankly do not know what is.
Let me ask you this question. Would there have been a single terrorist attack on our country save Tim McVeigh if we had not invaded Iraq TWICE and Afghanistan to take out Bin Ladin which of course we failed to do..HOW pathetic was THAT?
"Dude" You don't have a fucking clue what I am about. You think you have some reason to challenge me on dems vs GOP or you would not be wasting both of our time.
As for my responses, I get to have the last word on me... you do not. The fanatic christians on Orcas didn't bother me a lick even though I was FAR more vocal about their stupid religion than my bro's. Maybe it was the time I stuck my 303 British enfield in my older cousin's face when he came drunk to our house and offered to give me the ass whoopin I deserved. Small community.. word got around. Or maybe it was the year of YOUR lord 1960 when on the first day of deer season I took same rifle and shot the biggest buck on the island from THREE FEET. The damned thing was more than three times as big as I was. That too got around. NTS I am an excellent hunter and outdoorsman. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid and shot a young rabbit nearly every morning before the school bus showed up to feed my bird. That was with the 22 single shot. With rabbits you only get one shot. My republican father gave me all the guns I ever needed at 10 and 11. I made him and my gramps proud with my hunting and fishing skills. And since I am on the subject.. late one summer, when dad was visiting up on the Island, cuz he mostly was travelling the world for the Boeing Co, We heard some rifle shots coming from the back 40 and he took the 303 back to see what was going on. Next thing you know is he came running out of the woods yelling that he was shot at. Before another word was exchanged I picked up the gun and headed back where he had come from to take my "shot" at defending our land.
I snuck back deep into the alders and firs and discovered two deer hunters attempting to poach. I stealthed right up behind the big fat one and jammed the mussel right into his neck. Not to prolong the story..so I won't.
I've been dealing with ignorant yahoo's all my life. They can't help being stupid..it's genetic. Unlike the thieving libs and dems. They are smart..so smart they believe that they are more deserving of what is yours than you,, or me.
True it is very likely our political leanings have come from different circumstances. You seem to have re-invented yours while I am stubbornly clinging to my natural republican roots. The way I see it the GOP has abandoned both of us.
I agree with your conclusion. I realized that when I left the party over 25 years ago. I opposed the Iraq war and nation building in Afghanistan, but I don't see what that has to do with not investigating Benghazi. We know about Benghazi that the White House lied about it and Hillary lied about it. They were saying long after everyone knew that the video was not the cause of the attack that it was.
And Hillary certainly lied when she said the Ambassador told her everything was good while he was requesting help from everyone else. I don't think they did it to intentionally kill the people who died, but I do think they didn't want to send force because of Obama's support of the Libyan overthrow. It is totally worth finding out what happened
Maybe as a curiosity. Look, shit happens in war and sometimes even in peace that is difficult to pin down and diagram as if we could get all the facts anyway. Sometimes the truth is just too elusive. If it pleases you to go to your grave pursuing that event to some finite detail, go for it. If she lied to cover hers or Obama's ass then that's what happened. I know ONE thing for a fact that our ambassador dug his own grave by not planting his fag ass in the EMBASSY guarded by he Marines. If you think for some reason that we could have saved the stupid fuck then PROVE IT.. No wait! Don't bother on my account. Stupid people die in bad places. I don't give a rat's ass about him.
So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it? Seriously? It's highly relevant if for political reasons they didn't try, which certainly appears to have been the case. In the end, it appears to have been managed horribly, but there don't seem to have been any crimes committed, other than the Administration covering it up ...
"So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it?"
You REALLY do have problems with basic understanding of the English language don't you. No! What I meant for you to understand is that you should go ahead and investigate it to your heart's content. When and if you find something worth the general public knowing then by all means report it. If your enthusiasm for this "mission" is just speculation please try to stay out from under people's feet. Your "tin foil hat" is not some special entitlement to bring everyone's/anyone's life to a grinding halt. There have already been several congressional hearings on the matter. Not enough? I am more than satisfied that enough energy and resources have been consumed on this matter.
You say "no" then confirm what I said ...
Give it up cupcake. You don't get to decide a damned thing for me.
Strawman, never tried. But I do challenge the endless list of Democrats who claim to be a Republican. There is nothing Republican about defending a Democrat President from the consequences of his own action. There is nothing Republican about demanding government force other people to pay women's contraception. There is nothing wrong with supporting the canard that extremists from any other religion are remotely doing what Muslim extremists are doing.
Anyway, as I point out, who is thanking your posts tells you what you are supporting. If you're honest about thinking you're a Republican, then that should bother you. Democrats are the party you claim to hate because they fucked you, yet you're carrying their water for them. And they're recognizing and thanking you for it
You know...I have never tally'd up a list of the thousands of thanks and agree's. It just happens. Maybe it's just because I make sense at times. You do realize that we here are for the most part AMERICANS.. right? It isn't a crime to agree with another American if what they say is party neutral and good for the country.
If you choose to have some on going witch hunt over who you think is faking a party affiliation as if it really matters then by all means have a good time. It's your picknic. To me the only real tale of the tape is how one votes. Whining about the results is crying over spilt milk. By THEN it is too late. If you HATE every American that votes dem then get your ass out there and push for the GOP house to house. You will accomplish much more that way than wasting your time bitching at me.
I think it's pretty disproportionately left and you'd admit that if you were honest. So think about it, the party that you hate, who fucked you and your family, the people who continue to strongly support that policy, they are thanking you for continually agreeing with them. Remind me to not worry about you getting pissed at me ...
OK I am starting to understand that you are a paranoid schizophrenic. You obviously cannot help yourself.
My complaints with the current and recent(2-3 decades) direction taken by the GOP what with the fundamental christian over reaching and the systematic ass kissing of so called U S corporations which are in fact multi nationals has drawn some actual libs to thank some of my posts. They probably do so misunderstanding me the same way you do thinking any crumb they come across is a trail to a goldmine.
Many of my posts are/have been generally about the need to support American manufacturers and the survival of American business and American jobs. For the last couple of decades I have been involved with machining so I have a particular hard on against out sourcing and the destruction of U S manufacturing businesses and jobs. Having been a farm boy I have been very much against 3M and their destruction of family farming by patenting and prosecuting accidental cross planting. It is deplorable as it is intended to force compliance to buy their seed product. I get thanks from many sources for many reasons. Stop trying to bully me into accepting your accusations as true. Just keep it between yourself and your psychiatrist.
You're not contradicting me yet again. Democrats fucked you. Then the SC said the Florida SC had to follow their own laws. Then you said, WTF, I'm a socialist! Give me my way! I'm going to endlessly support the people I hate who sole my family's legacy by supporting the people who support the policy that did that!
Wow, you are a Republican ...
I certainly don't take the GOP for granted anymore. My general trust in them has vanished. If they want my vote they need to be transparent and telling the truth and stop talking crazy like the Donald. Otherwise I won't waste my time voting.Strawman, never tried. But I do challenge the endless list of Democrats who claim to be a Republican. There is nothing Republican about defending a Democrat President from the consequences of his own action. There is nothing Republican about demanding government force other people to pay women's contraception. There is nothing wrong with supporting the canard that extremists from any other religion are remotely doing what Muslim extremists are doing.
Anyway, as I point out, who is thanking your posts tells you what you are supporting. If you're honest about thinking you're a Republican, then that should bother you. Democrats are the party you claim to hate because they fucked you, yet you're carrying their water for them. And they're recognizing and thanking you for it
You know...I have never tally'd up a list of the thousands of thanks and agree's. It just happens. Maybe it's just because I make sense at times. You do realize that we here are for the most part AMERICANS.. right? It isn't a crime to agree with another American if what they say is party neutral and good for the country.
If you choose to have some on going witch hunt over who you think is faking a party affiliation as if it really matters then by all means have a good time. It's your picknic. To me the only real tale of the tape is how one votes. Whining about the results is crying over spilt milk. By THEN it is too late. If you HATE every American that votes dem then get your ass out there and push for the GOP house to house. You will accomplish much more that way than wasting your time bitching at me.
I think it's pretty disproportionately left and you'd admit that if you were honest. So think about it, the party that you hate, who fucked you and your family, the people who continue to strongly support that policy, they are thanking you for continually agreeing with them. Remind me to not worry about you getting pissed at me ...
OK I am starting to understand that you are a paranoid schizophrenic. You obviously cannot help yourself.
My complaints with the current and recent(2-3 decades) direction taken by the GOP what with the fundamental christian over reaching and the systematic ass kissing of so called U S corporations which are in fact multi nationals has drawn some actual libs to thank some of my posts. They probably do so misunderstanding me the same way you do thinking any crumb they come across is a trail to a goldmine.
Many of my posts are/have been generally about the need to support American manufacturers and the survival of American business and American jobs. For the last couple of decades I have been involved with machining so I have a particular hard on against out sourcing and the destruction of U S manufacturing businesses and jobs. Having been a farm boy I have been very much against 3M and their destruction of family farming by patenting and prosecuting accidental cross planting. It is deplorable as it is intended to force compliance to buy their seed product. I get thanks from many sources for many reasons. Stop trying to bully me into accepting your accusations as true. Just keep it between yourself and your psychiatrist.
You're not contradicting me yet again. Democrats fucked you. Then the SC said the Florida SC had to follow their own laws. Then you said, WTF, I'm a socialist! Give me my way! I'm going to endlessly support the people I hate who sole my family's legacy by supporting the people who support the policy that did that!
Wow, you are a Republican ...
It is clear that you have no idea how crazy your posts are. "WTF, I'm a socialist Give me my way! I'm going to endlessly support the people I hate who sole my family's legacy by supporting the people who support the policy that did that! " ???
I don't "endlessly" support anyone or any thing. I take things as they come and as they are. I used to support Dubya and his dad. Then as their actions were proven to be nearly the end of ours and the world's financial system and the wars and the talking to god and on and on I had to be realistic and reject what I once thought to be honorable and good for America.
Now DON"T go off the deep end. That does NOT mean I had to run over to the dems and sign up. It just means as my faith applied to the Bush's I felt betrayed. Since I have NEVER voted democratic they are not so much of a problem.. I just say no.
For me to vote for Trump he would have to publicly admit his thoughts on the huge wall are nonsense. Congress will not pay for this wall no matter how the Donald attempts to sell it. Getting Mexico to pay for the wall in advance is about as likely as something not likely at all. But THAT is the only way this super wall would ever be financed. Remember Elliot Ahbrams telling us that Iraqi oil would pay for the invasion? Fool me once...yada yada yada
I agree with your conclusion. I realized that when I left the party over 25 years ago. I opposed the Iraq war and nation building in Afghanistan, but I don't see what that has to do with not investigating Benghazi. We know about Benghazi that the White House lied about it and Hillary lied about it. They were saying long after everyone knew that the video was not the cause of the attack that it was.
And Hillary certainly lied when she said the Ambassador told her everything was good while he was requesting help from everyone else. I don't think they did it to intentionally kill the people who died, but I do think they didn't want to send force because of Obama's support of the Libyan overthrow. It is totally worth finding out what happened
Maybe as a curiosity. Look, shit happens in war and sometimes even in peace that is difficult to pin down and diagram as if we could get all the facts anyway. Sometimes the truth is just too elusive. If it pleases you to go to your grave pursuing that event to some finite detail, go for it. If she lied to cover hers or Obama's ass then that's what happened. I know ONE thing for a fact that our ambassador dug his own grave by not planting his fag ass in the EMBASSY guarded by he Marines. If you think for some reason that we could have saved the stupid fuck then PROVE IT.. No wait! Don't bother on my account. Stupid people die in bad places. I don't give a rat's ass about him.
So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it? Seriously? It's highly relevant if for political reasons they didn't try, which certainly appears to have been the case. In the end, it appears to have been managed horribly, but there don't seem to have been any crimes committed, other than the Administration covering it up ...
"So if I can "prove" that they could have saved the Ambassador, then we can investigate it?"
You REALLY do have problems with basic understanding of the English language don't you. No! What I meant for you to understand is that you should go ahead and investigate it to your heart's content. When and if you find something worth the general public knowing then by all means report it. If your enthusiasm for this "mission" is just speculation please try to stay out from under people's feet. Your "tin foil hat" is not some special entitlement to bring everyone's/anyone's life to a grinding halt. There have already been several congressional hearings on the matter. Not enough? I am more than satisfied that enough energy and resources have been consumed on this matter.
You say "no" then confirm what I said ...
I say "no" because you got it backwards. You do that a lot.
But you refuse to acknowledge the cozy relationship the parties have with government. They are private but what they do is control public policy to a very large degree.A single national primary day is a bad idea, but having national standards for primaries and every state having a primary long with other states of the same region and staggering those dates with a different regional order each election that is a great idea. I think it was CandyCorn that first posted it on another thread, though I'm sure she got the idea from somewhere else.Okay, I am going to personally address this question and discuss it, but I've been really busy for most of this afternoon and evening, and I'm honestly too tired to put that together. So I will come back tomorrow and pursue this. Meanwhile, I will provide this:
A National Primary Wouldn't Work - US News
I would add to this that there be no contributions or ads favoring a candidate legal by any for-profit corporations. Get the corporate money out of the system and most of this will right itself.
Again, NOT the government's business what private organizations do, nor should it be. The very idea that you're suggesting the federal government needs to extend its overreach and overcontrol into even more is repugnant.
But you refuse to acknowledge the cozy relationship the parties have with government. They are private but what they do is control public policy to a very large degree.A single national primary day is a bad idea, but having national standards for primaries and every state having a primary long with other states of the same region and staggering those dates with a different regional order each election that is a great idea. I think it was CandyCorn that first posted it on another thread, though I'm sure she got the idea from somewhere else.Okay, I am going to personally address this question and discuss it, but I've been really busy for most of this afternoon and evening, and I'm honestly too tired to put that together. So I will come back tomorrow and pursue this. Meanwhile, I will provide this:
A National Primary Wouldn't Work - US News
I would add to this that there be no contributions or ads favoring a candidate legal by any for-profit corporations. Get the corporate money out of the system and most of this will right itself.
Again, NOT the government's business what private organizations do, nor should it be. The very idea that you're suggesting the federal government needs to extend its overreach and overcontrol into even more is repugnant.
No, we don't need more of the same, we need to get the big money, unions and corporations, out of politics as much as possible. and it would be a good start to change the laws to allow the people to pick the delegates, instead of party insiders.
