Democrats Deny These Immigration Truths

[Porter Rockwell]

Don’t all elected officials take an oath when they take office? And doesn’t this oath state that they will defend the constitution?


If that’s the case, why don’t the Dims want to defend this country against foreign invaders? Criminals who disobey the very laws they’ve enacted?

Now, Democrats are going to say, “Why is the government arresting hardworking immigrants? They are just seeking a better way of life.” Well, this is a simple, twofold answer. One, they are not here legally. Two, and just as important, they are taking jobs that hardworking Americans do not have access to.

Let’s hope that Trump is successful before Christmas in getting the wall funded. And let’s hope Congress finally gets its act together and remembers the meaning of that oath that they all took.

More @ Democrats Deny These Immigration Truths

6.7 million job openings, and record low unemployment. If an illegal is taking your job, then you are a piss poor excuse for an American.

There are more jobs than people out of work, something the American economy has never experienced before

So you're saying mexicans are stupid?
Here's the thing you lefty douchebags always leave out when discussing illegal immigration.....they eventually get amnesty and compete with Americans mainly in the blue collar sector.
When I call someone to come out and fix my refrigerator? Mexican,same for my A/C,plumbing and every other blue collar job.
The funny part? They're taking jobs away from blacks far more than they are from whites.

Enjoy!!

I see no evidence of that. But here is the thing:

I called a plumber to install an overflow valve on a water heater. I'd have done the job myself, but I had just come home from surgery. I had the part.

The plumber takes almost twenty minutes to come back with an "estimate" of $245 and a service fee of $50. I gave him $50 for coming out and told him he better be off my property in thirty seconds.

A guy comes along off Craigslist and does the job for $30 and it's done in ten minutes. American workers think they should be paid a surgeon's wages for a skill set that takes two years to learn. Let me ask you: If the county wanted you to upgrade your home or lose it and you could not afford it, would you hire someone that didn't have papers OR lose your home?

What state do you live in?

Georgia

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Don’t all elected officials take an oath when they take office? And doesn’t this oath state that they will defend the constitution?


If that’s the case, why don’t the Dims want to defend this country against foreign invaders? Criminals who disobey the very laws they’ve enacted?

Now, Democrats are going to say, “Why is the government arresting hardworking immigrants? They are just seeking a better way of life.” Well, this is a simple, twofold answer. One, they are not here legally. Two, and just as important, they are taking jobs that hardworking Americans do not have access to.

Let’s hope that Trump is successful before Christmas in getting the wall funded. And let’s hope Congress finally gets its act together and remembers the meaning of that oath that they all took.

More @ Democrats Deny These Immigration Truths

6.7 million job openings, and record low unemployment. If an illegal is taking your job, then you are a piss poor excuse for an American.

There are more jobs than people out of work, something the American economy has never experienced before

So you're saying mexicans are stupid?
Here's the thing you lefty douchebags always leave out when discussing illegal immigration.....they eventually get amnesty and compete with Americans mainly in the blue collar sector.
When I call someone to come out and fix my refrigerator? Mexican,same for my A/C,plumbing and every other blue collar job.
The funny part? They're taking jobs away from blacks far more than they are from whites.

Enjoy!!

I see no evidence of that. But here is the thing:

I called a plumber to install an overflow valve on a water heater. I'd have done the job myself, but I had just come home from surgery. I had the part.

The plumber takes almost twenty minutes to come back with an "estimate" of $245 and a service fee of $50. I gave him $50 for coming out and told him he better be off my property in thirty seconds.

A guy comes along off Craigslist and does the job for $30 and it's done in ten minutes. American workers think they should be paid a surgeon's wages for a skill set that takes two years to learn. Let me ask you: If the county wanted you to upgrade your home or lose it and you could not afford it, would you hire someone that didn't have papers OR lose your home?

What state do you live in?

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

 

[sealybobo]

The reason why thirty years ago unions fought against illegal immigration was because they understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability. More workers, lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.

We fought for laws that would regulate immigration into the United States to a small enough flow that it wouldn't dilute the labor pool. The first laws creating a quota for immigrants were passed in the 1920s, in response to a sense that the country could no longer absorb large numbers of unskilled workers, despite pleas by big business that it wanted the new workers.

Do a little math. There are 7.6 million unemployed Americans and at the same time 15 million illegals working here diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Every nation has an obligation to limit immigration to a number that will not dilute its workforce if it wants to maintain a stable middle class. This has nothing to do with race but everything to do with economics.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here and to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

I fully disagree with you.

In the 1950s the feds started Operation Wetback. In less than five years of rounding up foreigners and shipping them home our unemployment rate doubled. It is a different economics lesson, but what you bring to the table is easily answered.

Where do you suppose that the American workers are today?

"the total number of persons in the adult correctional systems had fallen to 6,851,000 persons, approximately 52,200 fewer offenders than at the year end of 2013 as reported by the BJS. About 1 in 36 adults (or 2.8% of adults in the US) were under some form of correctional supervision"

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

“Drug use is on the rise in this country and 23.5 million Americans are addicted to alcohol and drugs. That’s approximately one in every 10 Americans over the age of 12 – roughly equal to the entire population of Texas. But only 11 percent of those with an addiction receive treatment."

New Data Show Millions of Americans with Alcohol and Drug Addiction Could Benefit from Health Care Reform - Where Families Find Answers on Substance Use | Partnership for Drug-Free Kids

There is quite a bit of overlap, but drug using Americans with a criminal record find themselves unemployable and end up on government assistance. The parents allow of a lot of those people allow them to sponge off mom and dad. Between that and government giving them a debit card for food, these people have no incentive to work.

The standard canard of the right is that foreigners are stealing jobs (that is a socialist argument, btw), when in reality, many Americans are unemployable due to background checks that are irrelevant to most jobs AND parents mollycoddling their now middle age "children" whilst they suck off the government teat.

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

This is why I like the GOP's welfare reform. This country does have too many people on disability. Too many who if they didn't have disability would figure it out on their own. I agree.

I used to argue back "corporate welfare is more!" but corporations keep the lights on. Poor people can't say their welfare is a drop in the bucket when we spend $100 billion a year on it.

Imagine what we could do with that $100 billion. Pay off the debt? And then those people would be working too so they'd be paying taxes, which could also be used to pay down the debt.

 

[sealybobo]

The reason why thirty years ago unions fought against illegal immigration was because they understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability. More workers, lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.

We fought for laws that would regulate immigration into the United States to a small enough flow that it wouldn't dilute the labor pool. The first laws creating a quota for immigrants were passed in the 1920s, in response to a sense that the country could no longer absorb large numbers of unskilled workers, despite pleas by big business that it wanted the new workers.

Do a little math. There are 7.6 million unemployed Americans and at the same time 15 million illegals working here diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Every nation has an obligation to limit immigration to a number that will not dilute its workforce if it wants to maintain a stable middle class. This has nothing to do with race but everything to do with economics.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here and to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

I fully disagree with you.

In the 1950s the feds started Operation Wetback. In less than five years of rounding up foreigners and shipping them home our unemployment rate doubled. It is a different economics lesson, but what you bring to the table is easily answered.

Where do you suppose that the American workers are today?

"the total number of persons in the adult correctional systems had fallen to 6,851,000 persons, approximately 52,200 fewer offenders than at the year end of 2013 as reported by the BJS. About 1 in 36 adults (or 2.8% of adults in the US) were under some form of correctional supervision"

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

“Drug use is on the rise in this country and 23.5 million Americans are addicted to alcohol and drugs. That’s approximately one in every 10 Americans over the age of 12 – roughly equal to the entire population of Texas. But only 11 percent of those with an addiction receive treatment."

New Data Show Millions of Americans with Alcohol and Drug Addiction Could Benefit from Health Care Reform - Where Families Find Answers on Substance Use | Partnership for Drug-Free Kids

There is quite a bit of overlap, but drug using Americans with a criminal record find themselves unemployable and end up on government assistance. The parents allow of a lot of those people allow them to sponge off mom and dad. Between that and government giving them a debit card for food, these people have no incentive to work.

The standard canard of the right is that foreigners are stealing jobs (that is a socialist argument, btw), when in reality, many Americans are unemployable due to background checks that are irrelevant to most jobs AND parents mollycoddling their now middle age "children" whilst they suck off the government teat.

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

6.7 million job openings, and record low unemployment. If an illegal is taking your job, then you are a piss poor excuse for an American.

There are more jobs than people out of work, something the American economy has never experienced before

So you're saying mexicans are stupid?
Here's the thing you lefty douchebags always leave out when discussing illegal immigration.....they eventually get amnesty and compete with Americans mainly in the blue collar sector.
When I call someone to come out and fix my refrigerator? Mexican,same for my A/C,plumbing and every other blue collar job.
The funny part? They're taking jobs away from blacks far more than they are from whites.

Enjoy!!

I see no evidence of that. But here is the thing:

I called a plumber to install an overflow valve on a water heater. I'd have done the job myself, but I had just come home from surgery. I had the part.

The plumber takes almost twenty minutes to come back with an "estimate" of $245 and a service fee of $50. I gave him $50 for coming out and told him he better be off my property in thirty seconds.

A guy comes along off Craigslist and does the job for $30 and it's done in ten minutes. American workers think they should be paid a surgeon's wages for a skill set that takes two years to learn. Let me ask you: If the county wanted you to upgrade your home or lose it and you could not afford it, would you hire someone that didn't have papers OR lose your home?

What state do you live in?

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you're saying mexicans are stupid?
Here's the thing you lefty douchebags always leave out when discussing illegal immigration.....they eventually get amnesty and compete with Americans mainly in the blue collar sector.
When I call someone to come out and fix my refrigerator? Mexican,same for my A/C,plumbing and every other blue collar job.
The funny part? They're taking jobs away from blacks far more than they are from whites.

Enjoy!!

I see no evidence of that. But here is the thing:

I called a plumber to install an overflow valve on a water heater. I'd have done the job myself, but I had just come home from surgery. I had the part.

The plumber takes almost twenty minutes to come back with an "estimate" of $245 and a service fee of $50. I gave him $50 for coming out and told him he better be off my property in thirty seconds.

A guy comes along off Craigslist and does the job for $30 and it's done in ten minutes. American workers think they should be paid a surgeon's wages for a skill set that takes two years to learn. Let me ask you: If the county wanted you to upgrade your home or lose it and you could not afford it, would you hire someone that didn't have papers OR lose your home?

What state do you live in?

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

Wait till you have 1.7 million of em.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I fully disagree with you.

In the 1950s the feds started Operation Wetback. In less than five years of rounding up foreigners and shipping them home our unemployment rate doubled. It is a different economics lesson, but what you bring to the table is easily answered.

Where do you suppose that the American workers are today?

"the total number of persons in the adult correctional systems had fallen to 6,851,000 persons, approximately 52,200 fewer offenders than at the year end of 2013 as reported by the BJS. About 1 in 36 adults (or 2.8% of adults in the US) were under some form of correctional supervision"

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

“Drug use is on the rise in this country and 23.5 million Americans are addicted to alcohol and drugs. That’s approximately one in every 10 Americans over the age of 12 – roughly equal to the entire population of Texas. But only 11 percent of those with an addiction receive treatment."

New Data Show Millions of Americans with Alcohol and Drug Addiction Could Benefit from Health Care Reform - Where Families Find Answers on Substance Use | Partnership for Drug-Free Kids

There is quite a bit of overlap, but drug using Americans with a criminal record find themselves unemployable and end up on government assistance. The parents allow of a lot of those people allow them to sponge off mom and dad. Between that and government giving them a debit card for food, these people have no incentive to work.

The standard canard of the right is that foreigners are stealing jobs (that is a socialist argument, btw), when in reality, many Americans are unemployable due to background checks that are irrelevant to most jobs AND parents mollycoddling their now middle age "children" whilst they suck off the government teat.

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I see no evidence of that. But here is the thing:

I called a plumber to install an overflow valve on a water heater. I'd have done the job myself, but I had just come home from surgery. I had the part.

The plumber takes almost twenty minutes to come back with an "estimate" of $245 and a service fee of $50. I gave him $50 for coming out and told him he better be off my property in thirty seconds.

A guy comes along off Craigslist and does the job for $30 and it's done in ten minutes. American workers think they should be paid a surgeon's wages for a skill set that takes two years to learn. Let me ask you: If the county wanted you to upgrade your home or lose it and you could not afford it, would you hire someone that didn't have papers OR lose your home?

What state do you live in?

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

Wait till you have 1.7 million of em.

While we have only 375,000 undocumented immigrants here, they still constitute 3.6 percent of the state's population.

If you think they come to Texas for the government freebies, then make those freebies available to citizens only. If you think it's due to the drug trade, work on getting the government out of the drug business. Government is the greatest enabler for drugs.

 

[sealybobo]

Common with Messiko? Who fucking cares? People were pouring over our border, so we secured it. What’s the problem?

this is an express power: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

Our welfare clause is General and we have a commerce clause.

We don't have a common defense issue on our border.

You’re not making any sense. Wtf are you talking about?

how dumb do we have to write it for the right wing?

Try making sense for a start. Wtf do welfare and commerce clauses have to do with our border? Or a common defense issue? With whom? Why would we need a common issue?

there is no wall building power.

And Trump initially started off lying to us about Mexico paying for the wall

Trump, beginning during his 2016 campaign, would frequently ask supporters at his rallies: “Who’s going to pay for the wall?” They would shout back: “Mexico.” Trump lately seems to have abandoned the promise, and has been demanding Congress give him $5 billion from U.S. taxpayers for the wall.

Next year at Trump rallies Don will ask "who's gonna pay for the wall?" and his sheep will reply

Crowd: Mexico indirectly through the new USMCA replacement for NAFTA!!
Trump: Who??
Crowd: Mexico indirectly through the new ...

Twitter Users Think Donald Trump Just Tweeted A Weird New Rally Chant For Supporters | HuffPost

 

[sealybobo]

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

Sorry I'm not going to go round and round with you. I gave plenty of reasons why too many immigrants hurts the middle class and how illegal immigrants are even worse. You don't want to believe it that's fine but everyone with a brain knows too many workers means lower wages and not enough workers means wages go up.

 

[sealybobo]

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

I don't get what you are saying.

https://nypost.com/2018/08/22/suspe...rder-worked-on-farm-owned-by-iowa-gop-family/

You don't see the problem with this farm employing illegals?

And you are repeating a lie. There are no jobs Americans won't do. We just want a better wage to do it. You don't want to pay better wages so you want to hire non Americans.

Do you think American companies should be able to go down to the border with busses and pick up as many workers as they can fit on the bus and take them to this Republican owned farm to work? Rather than pay Americans an American wage? Cheap.

 

[danielpalos]

Why does it matter whether or not a state allows foreigners to come and go? It should encourage us to force Congress to turn welfare over to the states. That way, if California wants to be a sanctuary state and they can afford it, that is their business.

The next step we should take is to make sure that the benefits and privileges like welfare, education, etc. are benefits of citizenship and the government cannot dole that money to out to ANY non-citizen.

The reason why thirty years ago unions fought against illegal immigration was because they understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability. More workers, lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.

We fought for laws that would regulate immigration into the United States to a small enough flow that it wouldn't dilute the labor pool. The first laws creating a quota for immigrants were passed in the 1920s, in response to a sense that the country could no longer absorb large numbers of unskilled workers, despite pleas by big business that it wanted the new workers.

Do a little math. There are 7.6 million unemployed Americans and at the same time 15 million illegals working here diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Every nation has an obligation to limit immigration to a number that will not dilute its workforce if it wants to maintain a stable middle class. This has nothing to do with race but everything to do with economics.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here and to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

I fully disagree with you.

In the 1950s the feds started Operation Wetback. In less than five years of rounding up foreigners and shipping them home our unemployment rate doubled. It is a different economics lesson, but what you bring to the table is easily answered.

Where do you suppose that the American workers are today?

"the total number of persons in the adult correctional systems had fallen to 6,851,000 persons, approximately 52,200 fewer offenders than at the year end of 2013 as reported by the BJS. About 1 in 36 adults (or 2.8% of adults in the US) were under some form of correctional supervision"

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia

“Drug use is on the rise in this country and 23.5 million Americans are addicted to alcohol and drugs. That’s approximately one in every 10 Americans over the age of 12 – roughly equal to the entire population of Texas. But only 11 percent of those with an addiction receive treatment."

New Data Show Millions of Americans with Alcohol and Drug Addiction Could Benefit from Health Care Reform - Where Families Find Answers on Substance Use | Partnership for Drug-Free Kids

There is quite a bit of overlap, but drug using Americans with a criminal record find themselves unemployable and end up on government assistance. The parents allow of a lot of those people allow them to sponge off mom and dad. Between that and government giving them a debit card for food, these people have no incentive to work.

The standard canard of the right is that foreigners are stealing jobs (that is a socialist argument, btw), when in reality, many Americans are unemployable due to background checks that are irrelevant to most jobs AND parents mollycoddling their now middle age "children" whilst they suck off the government teat.

Then import them legally. The same way legal immigrants had to get in, they should all have to do the same.

Even the ones here now. No shortcuts, amnesty or guest workers.

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

end our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror to stop creating refugees.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

What state do you live in?

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

Wait till you have 1.7 million of em.

While we have only 375,000 undocumented immigrants here, they still constitute 3.6 percent of the state's population.

If you think they come to Texas for the government freebies, then make those freebies available to citizens only. If you think it's due to the drug trade, work on getting the government out of the drug business. Government is the greatest enabler for drugs.

No,they come here to work for the most part.
Here's an interesting little tidbit. When I was 15 I made 25 bucks a yard to mow edge and weedeat...that was 38 years ago.
Guess what? I can get the same thing today for the same price.
You dont even attempt to go to my local corner store at lunch time because you cant get in the parking lot with all the trucks pulling trailers with yard equipment.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

Sorry I'm not going to go round and round with you. I gave plenty of reasons why too many immigrants hurts the middle class and how illegal immigrants are even worse. You don't want to believe it that's fine but everyone with a brain knows too many workers means lower wages and not enough workers means wages go up.

Granted, what you're saying is a theory. But, the bottom line is, if employers can hire whomever they want, it probably won't be the freaks of nature they are required to hire due to the regulations whereby the government tells them who to hire.

That is how you got into this mess - too much regulation. AND, even if you could get rid of the undocumented foreigners, it does not make the people sucking off the welfare teat want to go back to work. It does nothing to erase a criminal record or rehabilitate a drug user. It does nothing to stop the government from getting millions of people addicted to drugs - and they do so by force at times.

 

[danielpalos]

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

Sorry I'm not going to go round and round with you. I gave plenty of reasons why too many immigrants hurts the middle class and how illegal immigrants are even worse. You don't want to believe it that's fine but everyone with a brain knows too many workers means lower wages and not enough workers means wages go up.

increasing the minimum wage means more people will be looking for work.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that gives Congress, the President, or even the United States Supreme Court the authority to keep people from coming into the United States in order to conduct lawful activities.

The only legitimate - constitutional - de jure authority the federal government has over immigrants is that Congress is required to make an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

It is lawful to secure a border and regulate the flow of people coming in and out, but let's face the truth here: that is NOT what you want to do. You want to BAN people from coming in - PERIOD. The alternative argument is that those in favor of a wall want people to become citizens in order to have any rights and / or those wanting the wall would employ a quota system and that would discriminate against employers.

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

I don't get what you are saying.

https://nypost.com/2018/08/22/suspe...rder-worked-on-farm-owned-by-iowa-gop-family/

You don't see the problem with this farm employing illegals?

And you are repeating a lie. There are no jobs Americans won't do. We just want a better wage to do it. You don't want to pay better wages so you want to hire non Americans.

Do you think American companies should be able to go down to the border with busses and pick up as many workers as they can fit on the bus and take them to this Republican owned farm to work? Rather than pay Americans an American wage? Cheap.

Let me set the record straight for you:

There ARE jobs that Americans won't do. I try to hire people to do work for $25 to $40 per hour and it requires very little experience. One guy who did some work for me for half what the big box guys charge kept bragging about how much he "saved" me.

The gutters he put up still leaked and he would not make good on his work. I got two Mexicans to do the job for 25 percent less than the other guy did. And they made They ended up making $150 each for a half a day's work. I advertise almost weekly and I know many other people that call me wanting handymen or landscapers who don't charge the same as their surgeon.

I advertise CONSTANTLY. NOBODY can tell me what Americans will and won't do when I'm advertising constantly. Adding insult to injury, IF people would work for $25 to $40 per hour, they would be making more than I am at this point. How can I justify paying people more than I make?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I don't want to ban anyone. When wages go up and employers can't find enough help, then we let more in. We let in the number that we need. No more.

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

Sorry I'm not going to go round and round with you. I gave plenty of reasons why too many immigrants hurts the middle class and how illegal immigrants are even worse. You don't want to believe it that's fine but everyone with a brain knows too many workers means lower wages and not enough workers means wages go up.

increasing the minimum wage means more people will be looking for work.

That only drives up the cost of goods and services. You get rid of regulations; you get the government out of the drug business; you rehabilitate the work force you have and put them back into the job market; end the surveillance society and restore the individual's privacy so that they can get back in the job market.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Georgia

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

Wait till you have 1.7 million of em.

While we have only 375,000 undocumented immigrants here, they still constitute 3.6 percent of the state's population.

If you think they come to Texas for the government freebies, then make those freebies available to citizens only. If you think it's due to the drug trade, work on getting the government out of the drug business. Government is the greatest enabler for drugs.

No,they come here to work for the most part.
Here's an interesting little tidbit. When I was 15 I made 25 bucks a yard to mow edge and weedeat...that was 38 years ago.
Guess what? I can get the same thing today for the same price.
You dont even attempt to go to my local corner store at lunch time because you cant get in the parking lot with all the trucks pulling trailers with yard equipment.

That applies - maybe to cutting grass. Where I live, handymen think they should make $250,000 a year with a skill set that took them less than two years to acquire. My sister in law has SIX YEARS worth of education and is a registered nurse making the same thing basic handymen make here.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They'll be there soon,just wait.
Here in Texas I watched hispanics go from 5% to around 65% in machine shops from 1984 to 2012.

Georgia ranks fourth or fifth in the number of undocumented foreigners in the United States. There are plenty of jobs and nobody wants to do them. Those on limited incomes are dependent just as much as big corporations for their services.

Wait till you have 1.7 million of em.

While we have only 375,000 undocumented immigrants here, they still constitute 3.6 percent of the state's population.

If you think they come to Texas for the government freebies, then make those freebies available to citizens only. If you think it's due to the drug trade, work on getting the government out of the drug business. Government is the greatest enabler for drugs.

No,they come here to work for the most part.
Here's an interesting little tidbit. When I was 15 I made 25 bucks a yard to mow edge and weedeat...that was 38 years ago.
Guess what? I can get the same thing today for the same price.
You dont even attempt to go to my local corner store at lunch time because you cant get in the parking lot with all the trucks pulling trailers with yard equipment.

That applies - maybe to cutting grass. Where I live, handymen think they should make $250,000 a year with a skill set that took them less than two years to acquire. My sister in law has SIX YEARS worth of education and is a registered nurse making the same thing basic handymen make here.

Bullshit.
Wages in machine shops stagnated when we had a huge influx of illegals who eventually get amnesty.

Back in the eighties pouring concrete was a job done by blacks. Now it's all mexicans. Same can be said about construction and truck driving.
Mexicans have killed the blue collar jobs in this country.

 

[danielpalos]

Where I live there are plenty of jobs doing handyman work, landscape work, etc. for $25 to $40 an hour or so. NOBODY wants the jobs. It's easier to get a free ride from the government while living in their parent's home. Nobody wants to be an entrepreneur.

Then we should send out a flyer to Mexico saying help wanted in your town. Any laborer who wants to work where you live should apply to become a citizen because your town needs workers you can not find.

But they must legal citizens who pay taxes.

Here is the whole issue for me. NOBODY needs to become a citizen in order to work here. For me that is THE issue. Look, if you're going to make citizens out of everyone who comes here to work, pretty soon they will outvote you and this discussion becomes moot.

Taxes: According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA, about 75 percent of the undocumented foreigners pay the income tax. That is the ONLY tax you can argue. We had that war won BEFORE the conservatives got flipped by globalists. Had the FAIR Tax been debated a few times in Congress, a way to end the income tax and repeal the 16th Amendment would have resulted.

Instead, we falsely accused the undocumented foreigners of not paying taxes. That gave a pretext to use the SSN for your National ID AND continue imposing the income tax - which is a graduated tax much like the one found in the Communist Manifesto.

Pay taxes? Yes, if you're subject to them. Citizenship? HELL NO.

Sorry I'm not going to go round and round with you. I gave plenty of reasons why too many immigrants hurts the middle class and how illegal immigrants are even worse. You don't want to believe it that's fine but everyone with a brain knows too many workers means lower wages and not enough workers means wages go up.

increasing the minimum wage means more people will be looking for work.

That only drives up the cost of goods and services. You get rid of regulations; you get the government out of the drug business; you rehabilitate the work force you have and put them back into the job market; end the surveillance society and restore the individual's privacy so that they can get back in the job market.

cutting spending doesn't correlate with revenue for the right wing. they merely allege to be for Capitalism.