Democrats Need to Drop the Gun-Control Issue

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why would Black people vote for a party that's openly hostile to them?

They wouldn’t, and they don’t – a party that is actively engaged in disenfranchising black Americans.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Don't give me your rubbish about tyrannical governments etc.

It is rubbish.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Kellerman's study stands.

 

[Blues Man]

joe....you are the role model for an anti-gun extremist who relies on emotions and hate.....and facts, truth and reality have no place in what you believe....

43 times more likely........you keep posting that number...so here is the response, again....

You can keep posting that shit all day, but Kellerman's study stands. Guns are more dangerous to the people who live with them than they are to bad guys.

Because when you have situations of suicide or domestic violence, the gun makes it possible to elevate to a tragedy pretty damned quick.

Kellerman's study has been debunked so it doesn't stand at all

And suicide isn't a crime

 

[JoeB131]

Kellerman's study has been debunked so it doesn't stand at all

Kellerman's study is just fine. It just doesn't say what you want.

So let's have a study, and categorize every last one of the 39,000 gun deaths.

Here are your categories.

1) Suicide (we guess this number is about 23,000)
2) Accident (about 800 a year)
3) Murder by a criminal in the commission of a crime.
4) Murder by a household member/neighbor member during a domestic argument
5) Lethal force used by a police officer (1000 a year or so)
6) Lethal force used by a civilian in self-defense (200)

Now, we DO know that the number of gun homicides is about 14,000 a year. Take out the self-defense and police shootings and you get that down to about 12,800 a year.

So the big question becomes- How many of those were domestic homicides and how many were criminal homicides? if the number breaks down to 80/20, then, yes, Kellerman had it right on the nose.

And suicide isn't a crime

Actually, suicide isn't a crime, but attempted suicide is. So is assisting a suicide, just ask Dr. Death. Obviously, you can't lock them up after they are dead.

The law in the US is kind of ambiguous... mostly because you can't really prosecute someone after they killed themselves, and if they survive the attempt, the usual focus is on getting them help, not punishing them.

 

[Hollie]

ypical rabid leftist. Play the race card.

Odd, though. Gun sales increased dramatically when rabid leftist policies focused on defunding the police and letting criminals walk away from accountability for the crimes they committed.

Naw, that isn't odd. The gun industry's whole model is based on scared little white people wanting to buy enough guns to fight off the Zombies. That's why they flood our inner cities with guns to start with.

And don't ever, ever tell them that a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. If a study finds that, let's cut off all studies!!!!

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

Black Americans Have Been Buying More Guns During The Pandemic

Black Americans accelerated their gun purchases during the coronavirus pandemic, outpacing other demographic groups, even as President Joseph Biden vowed to ramp up gun control measures.

www.forbes.com

 

[Blues Man]

Kellerman's study has been debunked so it doesn't stand at all

Kellerman's study is just fine. It just doesn't say what you want.

So let's have a study, and categorize every last one of the 39,000 gun deaths.

Here are your categories.

1) Suicide (we guess this number is about 23,000)
2) Accident (about 800 a year)
3) Murder by a criminal in the commission of a crime.
4) Murder by a household member/neighbor member during a domestic argument
5) Lethal force used by a police officer (1000 a year or so)
6) Lethal force used by a civilian in self-defense (200)

Now, we DO know that the number of gun homicides is about 14,000 a year. Take out the self-defense and police shootings and you get that down to about 12,800 a year.

So the big question becomes- How many of those were domestic homicides and how many were criminal homicides? if the number breaks down to 80/20, then, yes, Kellerman had it right on the nose.

And suicide isn't a crime

Actually, suicide isn't a crime, but attempted suicide is. So is assisting a suicide, just ask Dr. Death. Obviously, you can't lock them up after they are dead.

The law in the US is kind of ambiguous... mostly because you can't really prosecute someone after they killed themselves, and if they survive the attempt, the usual focus is on getting them help, not punishing them.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

 

[JoeB131]

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

The vast majority of gun owners are white people.

But it's not the average gun owner that's the problem, it's the super-owner who buys enough guns to fight off the Zombies, and those guys are all white.

They are also the most likely to become mass shooters.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

If we are going back to Kellerman, then, um, no, it's not meaningless.

We know that we have 39K gun deaths in this country, every year. Guns make up 79% of the homicides (15,083 out of 18,913 homicides in 2019) and 50% of the suicides (23941 out of 47478 suicides in 2019) ,

We can also throw in 486 accidental gun deaths...

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Now, remember, the whole value of having a gun, according to the 2TinyGuys of the world, is to "protect" ourselves from bad guys. But according to the FBI, only 200 homicides a year by civilians with guns are classified as "Justified". So for every time a gun has "saved" a life, there were 197 times a gun caused a death that wasn't 'justified".

Now, you could argue that people would find other ways to off themselves or each other if the country wasn't flooded with guns. Um, yeah. I guess. But that is an awful lot of carnage for very little material benefit.

 

[Blues Man]

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

The vast majority of gun owners are white people.

But it's not the average gun owner that's the problem, it's the super-owner who buys enough guns to fight off the Zombies, and those guys are all white.

They are also the most likely to become mass shooters.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

If we are going back to Kellerman, then, um, no, it's not meaningless.

We know that we have 39K gun deaths in this country, every year. Guns make up 79% of the homicides (15,083 out of 18,913 homicides in 2019) and 50% of the suicides (23941 out of 47478 suicides in 2019) ,

We can also throw in 486 accidental gun deaths...

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Now, remember, the whole value of having a gun, according to the 2TinyGuys of the world, is to "protect" ourselves from bad guys. But according to the FBI, only 200 homicides a year by civilians with guns are classified as "Justified". So for every time a gun has "saved" a life, there were 197 times a gun caused a death that wasn't 'justified".

Now, you could argue that people would find other ways to off themselves or each other if the country wasn't flooded with guns. Um, yeah. I guess. But that is an awful lot of carnage for very little material benefit.

Suicides don't count.

 

[JoeB131]

Suicides don't count.

Go tell that to someone who lost a family member to suicide.

 

[2aguy]

joe....you are the role model for an anti-gun extremist who relies on emotions and hate.....and facts, truth and reality have no place in what you believe....

43 times more likely........you keep posting that number...so here is the response, again....

You can keep posting that shit all day, but Kellerman's study stands. Guns are more dangerous to the people who live with them than they are to bad guys.

Because when you have situations of suicide or domestic violence, the gun makes it possible to elevate to a tragedy pretty damned quick.

I just showed you he changed his study....you can't say "But Kellerman's study stands," when he himself changed it....you idiot.

The Japanese commit more suicide than Americans...that dog don't hunt, you dumb ass........

 

[2aguy]

No.....on Koresh, we point out he could have been peacefully arrested at any time, since it was known he would often walk, by himself, unarmed, into the local town......instead, the ATF wanted a big raid to justify their budget for upcoming congressional budget hearings...

You can point that out, but the reality- Koresh was molesting kids and trafficking in guns. Just arresting him wasn't the point, it was the fact he was selling modified weapons at gun shows to support his cult lifestyle.

Randy Weaver? The FBI tried forcing him to be an informant...when he refused they conducted a raid on his home killing his wife.

I think you are a little confused. The ATF tried to get him to be an informant on other Nazis he hung out with, after he bought an illegal gun from an ATF agent. He then murdered a US Marshall trying to execute a lawful arrest. His Nazi wife was killed when he and his buddy started shooting it out with FBI agents.

Let's keep in mind, if he were a black guy pulling this shit, they wouldn't have waited days to try to resolve the situation.

Yeah.....koresh may or may not have been all of those things.......

The point, you fucking moron....is that a lawful arrest of koresh could have been done without killing all of those children you say were in danger......you moron....your God....the government.....killed them......when they could have simply arrested him in town or on his walk to or from town....they fucked up and got those children killed, you asshat....

 

[Blues Man]

Suicides don't count.

Go tell that to someone who lost a family member to suicide.

Suicide isn't a gun issue it's a mental health issue and people do have the right to end their own lives if they want to.

 

[Hollie]

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

The vast majority of gun owners are white people.

But it's not the average gun owner that's the problem, it's the super-owner who buys enough guns to fight off the Zombies, and those guys are all white.

They are also the most likely to become mass shooters.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

If we are going back to Kellerman, then, um, no, it's not meaningless.

We know that we have 39K gun deaths in this country, every year. Guns make up 79% of the homicides (15,083 out of 18,913 homicides in 2019) and 50% of the suicides (23941 out of 47478 suicides in 2019) ,

We can also throw in 486 accidental gun deaths...

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Now, remember, the whole value of having a gun, according to the 2TinyGuys of the world, is to "protect" ourselves from bad guys. But according to the FBI, only 200 homicides a year by civilians with guns are classified as "Justified". So for every time a gun has "saved" a life, there were 197 times a gun caused a death that wasn't 'justified".

Now, you could argue that people would find other ways to off themselves or each other if the country wasn't flooded with guns. Um, yeah. I guess. But that is an awful lot of carnage for very little material benefit.

''The vast majority of gun owners are white''.

Oh, dear. You didn't identify why that is so terrible other than those evil white people owning Guns offends your delicate sensibilities.

Actually, I wasn't aware of those evil, super-white, super-gun owners. How do you know they are all white?

Once again, the rabid leftist makes totally nonsensical, totally unsupported claims. Pretty typical for rabid, leftist hacks.

 

[Hollie]

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

The vast majority of gun owners are white people.

But it's not the average gun owner that's the problem, it's the super-owner who buys enough guns to fight off the Zombies, and those guys are all white.

They are also the most likely to become mass shooters.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

If we are going back to Kellerman, then, um, no, it's not meaningless.

We know that we have 39K gun deaths in this country, every year. Guns make up 79% of the homicides (15,083 out of 18,913 homicides in 2019) and 50% of the suicides (23941 out of 47478 suicides in 2019) ,

We can also throw in 486 accidental gun deaths...

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Now, remember, the whole value of having a gun, according to the 2TinyGuys of the world, is to "protect" ourselves from bad guys. But according to the FBI, only 200 homicides a year by civilians with guns are classified as "Justified". So for every time a gun has "saved" a life, there were 197 times a gun caused a death that wasn't 'justified".

Now, you could argue that people would find other ways to off themselves or each other if the country wasn't flooded with guns. Um, yeah. I guess. But that is an awful lot of carnage for very little material benefit.

Oddly, I wasn't aware that you, personally, were tasked with deciding which parts of the Constitution were materially beneficial and which were not.

Such a weighty burden you gear.

Oh, by the way, the ''whole value'' of having a gun is not to protect ourselves. Shooting sports is a rapidly growing segment of firearms ownership.

Your typical use of broad, sweeping generalizations on matters which you have no facts is concerning,

 

[Blues Man]

Playing the race card is pretty typical of the rabid left. Their narrative is typically race based and the Democrat party has now focused on white people as the root of all evil.

Very strange how “scared little white people” are not the majority of gun purchasers. What a shame that the fraud pressing rabid leftist is again simply a purveyor of lies.

The vast majority of gun owners are white people.

But it's not the average gun owner that's the problem, it's the super-owner who buys enough guns to fight off the Zombies, and those guys are all white.

They are also the most likely to become mass shooters.

It's meaningless.

It's no different than saying if you have a pool that you're 5 times more likely to drown than if you don't have a pool.

If we are going back to Kellerman, then, um, no, it's not meaningless.

We know that we have 39K gun deaths in this country, every year. Guns make up 79% of the homicides (15,083 out of 18,913 homicides in 2019) and 50% of the suicides (23941 out of 47478 suicides in 2019) ,

We can also throw in 486 accidental gun deaths...

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Now, remember, the whole value of having a gun, according to the 2TinyGuys of the world, is to "protect" ourselves from bad guys. But according to the FBI, only 200 homicides a year by civilians with guns are classified as "Justified". So for every time a gun has "saved" a life, there were 197 times a gun caused a death that wasn't 'justified".

Now, you could argue that people would find other ways to off themselves or each other if the country wasn't flooded with guns. Um, yeah. I guess. But that is an awful lot of carnage for very little material benefit.

''The vast majority of gun owners are white''.

Oh, dear. You didn't identify why that is so terrible other than those evil white people owning Guns offends your delicate sensibilities.

Actually, I wasn't aware of those evil, super-white, super-gun owners. How do you know they are all white?

Once again, the rabid leftist makes totally nonsensical, totally unsupported claims. Pretty typical for rabid, leftist hacks.

The latest stats say that almost half of all new gun owners are Black and female which I think is great.

 

[JoeB131]

I just showed you he changed his study....you can't say "But Kellerman's study stands," when he himself changed it....you idiot.

Nope, he never did. He clarified some points, but he never took back his study.

Oddly, I wasn't aware that you, personally, were tasked with deciding which parts of the Constitution were materially beneficial and which were not.

Again, when you live like a Founding Slave Rapist and shit in a chamberpot and use leeches to cure diseases, you can come back to me about how all-wise they were.

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the fact they couldn't define a "well-regulated militia" clearly, I know that they never foresaw the kind of gun proliferation we have today and wouldn't have seen it as a good thing. Guns in colonial times were RARE, and most people didn't have access to them. That was the point.

Any street punk can be a big man for $300.00 is kind of a problem.

 

[Hollie]

I just showed you he changed his study....you can't say "But Kellerman's study stands," when he himself changed it....you idiot.

Nope, he never did. He clarified some points, but he never took back his study.

Oddly, I wasn't aware that you, personally, were tasked with deciding which parts of the Constitution were materially beneficial and which were not.

Again, when you live like a Founding Slave Rapist and shit in a chamberpot and use leeches to cure diseases, you can come back to me about how all-wise they were.

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the fact they couldn't define a "well-regulated militia" clearly, I know that they never foresaw the kind of gun proliferation we have today and wouldn't have seen it as a good thing. Guns in colonial times were RARE, and most people didn't have access to them. That was the point.

Any street punk can be a big man for $300.00 is kind of a problem.

Again, when you identify who made you the leftist in charge of what Constitutional amendments are to be abandoned, get back to me.

I really do find it comical that pompous leftists rattle off bellicose claims that are utter nonsense.

So, let’s examine another of your nonsense claims regarding, “Guns in colonial times were RARE, and most people didn't have access to them.”

As we have seen through this thread, you simply invent “phacts” that will support your specious claims.

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1489&context=wmlr

“Gun ownership is particularly high compared to other common items. For example, in 813 itemized male inventories from the 1774 Jones national database, guns are listed in 54% of estates, compared to only 30% of estates listing any cash,…”

 

[Blues Man]

Nope, he never did. He clarified some points, but he never took back his study.

Yeah he changed the 43 times bullshit to 2.7 times

That's quite a walk back

 

[2aguy]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

You vote for the political party of the people you call slave rapists...you idiot....

Guns in colonial times were not rare, you doofus....you tried to use the Michael Bellesiles book as your source...until I posted the fact that he had his award pulled and was fired for lying in his book about guns being rare.....

This is why we don't take assholes like you seriously....the truth, facts and reality don't support anything you believe or say, and then, when we show that the facts, truth and reality don't support anything you believe or say, you continue to lie.......