DeVos to make getting away with campus rape easy again

[Bob Blaylock]

Back in the wild west ladies weren't allowed in saloons. If they went they would get sexually assaulted. Is Betsy saying these women are putting themselves in the situation where drunk young horny college man are going to fuck you if you're at a frat party?

Is that what she's saying? These women are asking for it and shouldn't be out slutting around?

Someone please tell me what Betsy's saying.

Where is she saying anything like that?

Where is she saying anything other than that someone accused of a terrible crime is entitled to due process of law before he is punished for that crime?

 

[Coyote]

Cowboys’ Ezekiel Elliott Suspended 6 Games on Domestic Violence Allegations

Suspended six games without pay for ALLEGATIONS of domestic violence and violating the leagues personal code of conduct.

I seem to remember you being all upset over corporations being people and donating to elections. So if corporations aren't just normal people in that regard how can you bestow upon them the duties of the judiciary? Are they normal people or not? Are they the law? I'm trying to figure out how a corporation can't donate to an election but is somehow entrusted with applying judicial sentencing.

I'm not getting what you are saying here.

Any business has the right to determine standards of conduct and enforce them or apply penalties if they are violated. Those penalties are limited by the law of course. Are you saying they can not do it?

If I remember right, a teacher got fired for something she posted on Facebook.

Posting something on facebook isn't a crime. Rape is. A facebook post that goes against company policy is in their bunk house. A rape isn't. The difference is if something reflects bad on the company but no law is broken they can deal with it. If crime has been committed they have nothing to be involved in.

I disagree.

Sexual assault deals directly with issues of campus safety and student security and an unsafe campus most certainly reflects badly on the institution. The only difference is that if a crime has been committed the police should also be involved.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You can have a code but it doesn't approach or circumvent the law. Why are you so against a rule of law?

Democrats hate the rule of law, except when they can pervert it to further their own abuses.

 

[Coyote]

Are you saying that business have no rights to set codes for conduct on their campus and enforce them?

Businesses have no right to punish for a crime, when the person being punished has not been proven by due process of law to have actually committed that crime.

They do it all the time. Like the NFL. You can be fired or placed on leave without pay.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually no, you said precisely the opposite. You said young men should be railroaded and have their entire lives ruined because someone accused them of rape with no corroborating evidence.

It doesn't matter what I would want in the case of my daughter. What matters is what the school policy is.

Well, actually it should.

SO here's an alternative. Make every university post it's rape accusations statistics. If there were 160 accused rapists on campus and only 3 were thrown out, let parents know that before they send their daughters off to Werapem U.

If there were only 10 rape accusations and all ten of the little bastards were thrown out because, hey, they made an example of the rapists and the rest of the Frat Boys all act like Mormons around the girls, that works, too.

You see, the thing is, it's not just the individual rapes that are the problem, it's rape culture. It's the culture that, hey, if she got drunk at a frat party, she needs to pull a train. That's what needs to come to an end.

Make an example of a few people, that shit comes to an end, really quickly.

No, I shouldn't. Only a dumbfuck like you thinks that the one time you are guaranteed not to be thinking rationally is when you should be making a decision about this.

Your "solution" doesn't get around the problem of people who are falsely accused from being punished. When you come up with an actual solution, then perhaps some of might give a fuck what you have to say. Otherwise, it's just noise.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Cowboys’ Ezekiel Elliott Suspended 6 Games on Domestic Violence Allegations

Suspended six games without pay for ALLEGATIONS of domestic violence and violating the leagues personal code of conduct.

I seem to remember you being all upset over corporations being people and donating to elections. So if corporations aren't just normal people in that regard how can you bestow upon them the duties of the judiciary? Are they normal people or not? Are they the law? I'm trying to figure out how a corporation can't donate to an election but is somehow entrusted with applying judicial sentencing.

I'm not getting what you are saying here.

Any business has the right to determine standards of conduct and enforce them or apply penalties if they are violated. Those penalties are limited by the law of course. Are you saying they can not do it?

If I remember right, a teacher got fired for something she posted on Facebook.

Posting something on facebook isn't a crime. Rape is. A facebook post that goes against company policy is in their bunk house. A rape isn't. The difference is if something reflects bad on the company but no law is broken they can deal with it. If crime has been committed they have nothing to be involved in.

I disagree.

Sexual assault deals directly with issues of campus safety and student security and an unsafe campus most certainly reflects badly on the institution. The only difference is that if a crime has been committed the police should also be involved.

Come on Coyote FFS. Yeah sexual assault reflects badly on a college. Which is why you call the police and prosecute the fucker. The police aren't an afterthought for shit sakes they're the primary go to fucking authority for keeping a campus safe.

 

[bripat9643]

So Sally can drink and whore it up but Biff can't. Interesting lack of logic there.

Works for me. Look, you guys really haven't made your case that there are lots of poor frat boys being accused of shit they didn't do.

Of course it works for you. You're an idiot.

 

[eagle7_31]

So Sally can drink and whore it up but Biff can't. Interesting lack of logic there.

Works for me. Look, you guys really haven't made your case that there are lots of poor frat boys being accused of shit they didn't do.

Of course it works for you. Your an idiot.

Why don't some of the left wingers check out the Duke University case a few years ago for one instance. Good piece here as well.
Opinion | Betsy DeVos Ends a Campus Witch Hunt

 

[bripat9643]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

What a fucking retard you are.

False rape charges ruin lives, time to put an end to this.

So does rape.

Yeah, so let's kick some innocent people out of college and destroy their lives.

Did you notice that your conclusion doesn't follow from the premise?

 

[bripat9643]

So Sally can drink and whore it up but Biff can't. Interesting lack of logic there.

Works for me. Look, you guys really haven't made your case that there are lots of poor frat boys being accused of shit they didn't do.

Of course it works for you. Your an idiot.

Why don't some of the left wingers check out the Duke University case a few years ago for one instance. Good piece here as well.
Opinion | Betsy DeVos Ends a Campus Witch Hunt

They've already forgotten about that. They forget about their failures 5 minutes after they have been exposed.

 

[bripat9643]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

What a fucking retard you are.

False rape charges ruin lives, time to put an end to this.

So does rape.

Which is why it is a crime handled by the police. Why are you democrats so opposed to that?

Who is opposed to it? No one. But schools, like any other entity have their own internal codes as well. Like the NFL, where a player gets fired or restricted for accusations of domestic violence, which also go to the police.

They don't get fired for "accusations." They get fired for actual hard evidence, like capturing the crime on video.

 

[bripat9643]

Rape is a crime, a serious one. Report it to the police and let the justice system handle it.

But no, you want kangaroo courts that have no protection of the rights of the accused nor rule of law.

Actually no I don't. I have concerns with how it is handled on some campus.

Which is why you don't handle it on campus at all.

Yes you do. Campus are no different then any other entity.

They aren't the law. Why can't you come to grips with that?

Are you saying that business have no rights to set codes for conduct on their campus and enforce them?

A university is not a private business. It's an arm of the government. If you're gong to penalize conduct, then you should have sufficient evidence to prove the conduct actually occurred.

 

[bripat9643]

Cowboys’ Ezekiel Elliott Suspended 6 Games on Domestic Violence Allegations

Suspended six games without pay for ALLEGATIONS of domestic violence and violating the leagues personal code of conduct.

I seem to remember you being all upset over corporations being people and donating to elections. So if corporations aren't just normal people in that regard how can you bestow upon them the duties of the judiciary? Are they normal people or not? Are they the law? I'm trying to figure out how a corporation can't donate to an election but is somehow entrusted with applying judicial sentencing.

I'm not getting what you are saying here.

Any business has the right to determine standards of conduct and enforce them or apply penalties if they are violated. Those penalties are limited by the law of course. Are you saying they can not do it?

If I remember right, a teacher got fired for something she posted on Facebook.

Posting something on facebook isn't a crime. Rape is. A facebook post that goes against company policy is in their bunk house. A rape isn't. The difference is if something reflects bad on the company but no law is broken they can deal with it. If crime has been committed they have nothing to be involved in.

I disagree.

Sexual assault deals directly with issues of campus safety and student security and an unsafe campus most certainly reflects badly on the institution. The only difference is that if a crime has been committed the police should also be involved.

If there's no crime, then there hasn't been a rape. You really haven't thought this out, have you?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

A university is not a private business. It's an arm of the government.

That's not entirely true. There are many universities that are not part of government, nor affiliated with government. Nevertheless, your following point still stands.

If you're gong to penalize conduct, then you should have sufficient evidence to prove the conduct actually occurred.

 

[JoeB131]

I got fired for asking a girl out on a date. She accused me of sexual harassment. I would've taken no for an answer. She never gave it. She went straight to the boss and reported me.

And? Did they not explain this to you on your orientation day?

Joe doesn't feel bad for you. I suppose that's supposed to be justice.

You are right, I wouldn't. Don't date co-workers. Obviously, just reading Sly's posts, the guy comes off as massively creepy. I could imagine what was going through this poor girl's head.

 

[JoeB131]

Sally isn't responsible for what she does while drunk but Biff is. Double standard.

why not? if sally is unconscious, she can't consent.

If Biff is unconscious, he can't perform.

You guys did get some basic sex ed, right?

We actually took it one step further and had sex! Imagine that...sorry I suppose all you do is imagine.

So you had sex when you were unconcious? That's actually called a "wet dream". They should have explained that to you in Sex Ed class.

Who said unconscious.

Um, that's what a lot of these cases are, bud. Get a girl drunk, slip her a roofie, and take advantage.

But typical of the "White Male Victimhood" mentality of the right, the problem here is men being falsely accused, not women being victimized.

 

[JoeB131]

The odd thing about rape is that it's a criminal offense. If a rape occurs, the police will arrest the perpetrator and put them in prison.

Except that only 3% of reported rapes end up in prison.

Of course, when your party "elects" a President who brags about how he can sexually assault women and get away with it because he's a celebrity, you can see how your priorities can get skewed.

 

[JoeB131]

No it fucking can't. How the hell is a college equipped to investigate and prosecute a crime? They aren't even capable of controlling their students during a speech they may not like and you think they can handle a rape case?

again, since Law enforcement can only put 3% of rapists in prison, I think the campuses might be better off handling these problems on their own.

 

[JoeB131]

After what? Losing out on their education, no job prospects and a couple years later they may get something? How the hell is that any way to run a country of laws? Fuck it, we're going to prosecute and maybe later you can sue.

okay, again. YOu get thrown out of school, you enroll in another school. Except this time you concentrate on getting a degree instead of partying.

If it's not public, then how do we know about it? You're the world's biggest dumbass, Joe. You assumption that the accused is automatically guilty shows why you belong in a cage rather than running around loose.

Well, here's the thing. These records are sealed. So we only have Biff's insistence he was thrown off campus for totally bogus reason like the girl said yes after she did a beer bong.

Again, the campus' obligation is to protect their students, not make sure Biff gets "due process".

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Well, here's the thing. These records are sealed. So we only have Biff's insistence he was thrown off campus for totally bogus reason like the girl said yes after she did a beer bong.

Again, the campus' obligation is to protect their students, not make sure Biff gets "due process".

Biff is their student too, and whatever obligation they have to protect another student who claims that he raped her, they have that same level of obligation to protect Biff from being punished for being falsely accused of a criminal act.