Dick Cheney

[Warrior102]

your insane

That would be "you're" assbrain......

 

[Foxfyre]

The modern Hippocratic Oath:

A Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
_______________________________________

The modern version of the Hippocratic Oath was written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University.

The ancient classical version of the Hippocratic Oath:

Classic Version of the Hippocratic Oath

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.
__________________________________________

The classical version of the Hippocratic Oath is from the translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.

Hippocratic Oath definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

 

[percysunshine]

why do you all refuse to deal with the fact that someone else was refused this match because Cheney was allowed on the list that most hospitals cut off at 60.

Someone didnt get this life saving transplant because Cheney did get it.

When Obamacare kicks in, nobody except the super rich will get a transplant.

You hoped for change and, well, you got it.

your insane

You need to repeat 6th grade grammar.

 

[The T]

The modern Hippocratic Oath:

A Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
_______________________________________

The modern version of the Hippocratic Oath was written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University.

The ancient classical version of the Hippocratic Oath:

Classic Version of the Hippocratic Oath

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.
__________________________________________

The classical version of the Hippocratic Oath is from the translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.

Hippocratic Oath definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

^^ Precisely.

 

[Emma]

And what IPAB is all about.

No, it isn't.

Your brilliance in the forum is noted, asswipe.
Stand by for heavy rolls

Oh, I'm really scared

Since you're too much of a pussy to accept private messages, I'll have to respond here:

Hi, you have received -571 reputation points from Warrior102.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Cheney\'s an American - and a great one, you assfucking little Goddamned beaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatch

Regards,
Warrior102

Note: This is an automated message.

You should read and know what you're talking about before jumping to such conclusions:

My first post on that thread:

This has nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath. Medicine has limited resources; rationing, triage and decisions on the allocation of these limited resources is as old as the profession itself.

I don't think this was a "waste" of a good heart. There are specific criteria that move one up or down a transplant list, and apparently Mr. Cheney was at or near the top. I don't believe who he is had anything to do with it, and those physicians and other professionals involved in organ procurement and transplant services are not going to risk their programs and their careers by allocating a heart to him if there had been a match further up the list. A match came available in that area and he was offered the chance for the transplant. That's all there is to it.

----

(response to a post that docs should have allowed him to die on the table)

Again, these people were not going to risk their programs and careers by disregarding the criteria and rules just because of who he is.

He does have a hard road ahead; this is no guarantee he will live. I think wishing that he would have died on the table or 'soon' is pretty damned disgusting. I disagreed with pretty much everything he stood for politically, but this isn't about politics, IMO.

----

(in response to posts that Mr. Cheney received preferential treatment)

I'd answer no to the first two questions; as far as the last, there is no way to know the answer to that one. It could be that another person was higher on the list but for whatever reason, couldn't undergo the surgery.

I'm pretty damned cynical, and you probably won't find anyone more radical about healthcare than I am, but I truly don't believe that what happened here is any different than any other procurement and transplant scenario.

----

I don't think he was chosen to receive this heart because he had the money. There's no way to know who was turned down or if that actually happened. There are time and distance limits on these transplants, too. So depending on where they harvested the heart, there were a limited number of people (matched) who were available to be the recipient.

I've known people who work in organ procurement. I really don't think they, or the physicians and programs dedicated to transplant services, are going to risk it all for the sake of keeping this particular person alive.

----

It's more than just fear of lawsuits. I suspect that is far down the list, actually. Organ procurement and transplant programs are exceedingly careful to avoid even the hint of impropriety and discrimination in their determinations as to who gets what and when. They are fighting an uphill battle as it is, they certainly are not going to risk it all by giving anyone preferential treatment outside their set criteria.

 

[WillowTree]

why do you all refuse to deal with the fact that someone else was refused this match because Cheney was allowed on the list that most hospitals cut off at 60.

Someone didnt get this life saving transplant because Cheney did get it.

because your stupid dumb ass don't know that.

 

[Emma]

^^ Precisely.

If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty

And the part where they vow to preserve life?

 

[Emma]

He had lots and lots of money

I've answered that earlier on the thread. I sincerely don't believe that his money or name is why he was given this heart.

 

[percysunshine]

The modern Hippocratic Oath:


..... Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

Oops......how did that get in there. Komen is going to be pissed off.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Nope its fact.

tell me the age at which most hospitals refuse a heart transplant person a spot on a heart list?

Do you have any idea of the age?

Again? Who are you to tell a doctor to sway away from thier oath to preserve life?

Physicians don't swear to preserve life. Age is a factor in the decision to approve someone for transplant, but certainly not the only one considered.

Well, I would say that is not "cut in stone"

The Hippocratic Oath states that a physician’s obligation is
primum non nocere

Is it up to debate, sure

Do they swear to take it?
No of course not

 

[Emma]

Again? Who are you to tell a doctor to sway away from thier oath to preserve life?

Physicians don't swear to preserve life. Age is a factor in the decision to approve someone for transplant, but certainly not the only one considered.

Well, I would say that is not "cut in stone"

The Hippocratic Oath states that a physician’s obligation is
primum non nocere

Is it up to debate, sure

Do they swear to take it?
No of course not

"First, do no harm" doesn't necessarily mean to preserve life, especially at all costs. I've been a nurse for nearly 30 years, primarily in hematology/oncology. Trust me, there are things out there far worse than death, and it can be argued that there are times when 'preserving life' causes great harm. Part of my responsibility to my patients is, when their time comes, to assist them as they progress through the dying process, with as much dignity and comfort as possible.

 

[Foxfyre]

I had an aunt who was technically over the age that normally would be approved to receive a new kidney. She also had a very rare blood and tissue type that was almost impossible to match which is how she became too old to receive a kidney. She was on dialysis for almost 20 years when a kidney that was a match became available. And because there was absolutely nobody else waiting for a kidney that could use that one, she got it. It gave her 15 wonderful years of freedom in which she was a godly woman valued by all who knew her. But, had she been very wealthy, it probably would have been said of her that she paid to get to the head of the line.

When you don't know the circumstances, it is probably best not to judge. No matter how much you despise somebody.

 

[percysunshine]

The President takes an oath to uphold the Constitution....and we all know how that has worked out.

 

[The T]

I had an aunt who was technically over the age that normally would be approved to receive a new kidney. She also had a very rare blood and tissue type that was almost impossible to match which is how she became too old to receive a kidney. She was on dialysis for almost 20 years when a kidney that was a match became available. And because there was absolutely nobody else waiting for a kidney that could use that one, she got it. It gave her 15 wonderful years of freedom in which she was a godly woman valued by all who knew her. But, had she been very wealthy, it probably would have been said of her that she paid to get to the head of the line.

When you don't know the circumstances, it is probably best not to judge. No matter how much you despise somebody.

 

[The T]

The President takes an oath to uphold the Constitution....and we all know how that has worked out.

Circumvented at every turn.

 

[Emma]

I had an aunt who was technically over the age that normally would be approved to receive a new kidney. She also had a very rare blood and tissue type that was almost impossible to match which is how she became too old to receive a kidney. She was on dialysis for almost 20 years when a kidney that was a match became available. And because there was absolutely nobody else waiting for a kidney that could use that one, she got it. It gave her 15 wonderful years of freedom in which she was a godly woman valued by all who knew her. But, had she been very wealthy, it probably would have been said of her that she paid to get to the head of the line.

When you don't know the circumstances, it is probably best not to judge. No matter how much you despise somebody.

Good points.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Physicians don't swear to preserve life. Age is a factor in the decision to approve someone for transplant, but certainly not the only one considered.

Well, I would say that is not "cut in stone"

The Hippocratic Oath states that a physician’s obligation is
primum non nocere

Is it up to debate, sure

Do they swear to take it?
No of course not

"First, do no harm" doesn't necessarily mean to preserve life, especially at all costs. I've been a nurse for nearly 30 years, primarily in hematology/oncology. Trust me, there are things out there far worse than death, and it can be argued that there are times when 'preserving life' causes great harm. Part of my responsibility to my patients is, when their time comes, to assist them as they progress through the dying process, with as much dignity and comfort as possible.

I said it is up to debate,
and state laws, if assisted suicide is allowed.


While one can argue that suicide is legitimate in the choice set of an individual,
physician assisted suicide could lead society down a slippery slope.

 

[Emma]

Well, I would say that is not "cut in stone"

The Hippocratic Oath states that a physician’s obligation is
primum non nocere

Is it up to debate, sure

Do they swear to take it?
No of course not

"First, do no harm" doesn't necessarily mean to preserve life, especially at all costs. I've been a nurse for nearly 30 years, primarily in hematology/oncology. Trust me, there are things out there far worse than death, and it can be argued that there are times when 'preserving life' causes great harm. Part of my responsibility to my patients is, when their time comes, to assist them as they progress through the dying process, with as much dignity and comfort as possible.

I said it is up to debate,
and state laws, if assisted suicide is allowed.


While one can argue that suicide is legitimate in the choice set of an individual,
physician assisted suicide could lead society down a slippery slope.

The patient has the absolute right to decline treatment at any point. Why do we not give them the right to choose when they wish to die?

 

[The T]

Well, I would say that is not "cut in stone"

The Hippocratic Oath states that a physician’s obligation is
primum non nocere

Is it up to debate, sure

Do they swear to take it?
No of course not

"First, do no harm" doesn't necessarily mean to preserve life, especially at all costs. I've been a nurse for nearly 30 years, primarily in hematology/oncology. Trust me, there are things out there far worse than death, and it can be argued that there are times when 'preserving life' causes great harm. Part of my responsibility to my patients is, when their time comes, to assist them as they progress through the dying process, with as much dignity and comfort as possible.

I said it is up to debate,
and state laws, if assisted suicide is allowed.


While one can argue that suicide is legitimate in the choice set of an individual,
physician assisted suicide could lead society down a slippery slope.

Just like IPAB.

 

[Emma]

You really don't know what you're talking about.