Zone1 Did mankind's spirits exist prior to coming to this earth?

[Woodznutz]

What evidence? that self-written book?

I see creation, you see evolution. It's a draw.

 

[Kruska]

This is the "Religion and Ethics forum, cowbird. Your post is neither.

My postings are all about ETHICS - therefore I defy the contents of self-written religious kiddo books, written by humans.

Atheists are far more honest and realistic about Ethics - aka morals and human values then those self-claimed religious people and their religious institutions that have suppressed and killed millions and millions in the name of "their God". And still continue to do so.

Science and archeological facts only come in on my part, when a religious person starts to come up with God and those kiddo books, as supposedly being a proof towards his religious conviction.

I would respect any religious person that factually sticks to his propagated 10 Commandments - haven't found one yet and never will.
And don't give me this "we are trying our best since 3000 years".

 

[Kruska]

I see creation, you see evolution. It's a draw.

NOPE - since evolution on earth nor the evolving of the Universe has nothing to do with a God or a "superior being".
God only comes in, (by religious folks) when questions presently can't be answered aka proven via science.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Mormons say that spirits were premortal and stll are.

Atheists are no more moral or corrupt than theists.

 

[luiza]

You cannot destroy energy .
Only convert into alternative forms .

An apparent inviolate Law of the Universe .

 

[Woodznutz]

My postings are all about ETHICS - therefore I defy the contents of self-written religious kiddo books, written by humans.

Atheists are far more honest and realistic about Ethics - aka morals and human values then those self-claimed religious people and their religious institutions that have suppressed and killed millions and millions in the name of "their God". And still continue to do so.

Science and archeological facts only come in on my part, when a religious person starts to come up with God and those kiddo books, as supposedly being a proof towards his religious conviction.

I would respect any religious person that factually sticks to his propagated 10 Commandments - haven't found one yet and never will.
And don't give me this "we are trying our best since 3000 years".

The Bible is hardly a "kiddo" book.

 

[Woodznutz]

NOPE - since evolution on earth nor the evolving of the Universe has nothing to do with a God or a "superior being".
God only comes in, (by religious folks) when questions presently can't be answered aka proven via science.

Of course. Evolution and creation are mutually exclusive beliefs. But only evolution requires scientific study. Creation only requires observation.

 

[BreezeWood]

Did mankind's spirits exist prior to coming to this earth?​

no more so than any other living being - whether exact replicas of humans on other planets would seem unlikely but possible their fast food outlets would answer the question, big mac's or k f c.

 

[Kruska]

Of course. Evolution and creation are mutually exclusive beliefs. But only evolution requires scientific study. Creation only requires observation.

Nope,

Evolution on earth aka the evolution of human mankind is backed by scientific and archaeological EVIDENCE (not some Belief) - which has already discounted (nullified) ALL statements printed in those self-written books. Starting off with those 7 days and Adam&Eve. (The very essence of your religion).

Creation by some God, is a pure religiously motivated and thus invented concept - propagated in and by those self-written books, and lacks any proof whatsoever, aka EVIDENCE. Therefore it is simply a religious based self-BELIEF, that also isn't based on any proven "observation".

When natural phenomenons couldn't be explained scientifically e.g. Lightning - people came up with some God hurling bolts of lightning. And the matter of day and night were believed to be due to some sun-god taking his nap. etc. etc.

The same goes for that falsely propagated global flood (Scientifically proven, that it never occurred when humans were around) - but "maybe" just a religious exploited result based on some 25,000+ years oral communicated story, trying to explain the disappearance of (nowadays termed Neanderthals) aka supposedly wiped out by God, and thus made place for today's humans, symbolized in that self-written book as being Noah and family.

However your religion doesn't "symbolize" but factually sells e.g. Noah and family as a supposed fact. And science can irrefutably explain and proof to you what happens if only a single family (+ one outsider) keeps "populating" amongst themselves for several generations. Not even to mention your Adam&Eve plus Cain issue.

Therefore if e.g. the antic Greek religion would have stood it's ground against Christianity - due to brutally suppressing, persecuting and thus brainwashing other religions and people for 1500+ years, and e.g. an Emperor Constantine not having converted, you would now propagate your BELIEF, that some Zeus (Jupiter) and his family rules on Mount Olympia and that the Titans created the straights of Gibraltar. After all that is just as well written and propagated in numerous books written by Greek, Mideastern and Roman scholars.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't try to propagate your religion and it's self-written books as being FACTS. That's all on my part.

 

[Kruska]

The Bible is hardly a "kiddo" book.

Undoubtedly the Bible and those other books are exactly that.
Ever seen e.g. those Jehovah witnesses books - that those ADULTS pass to other Adults?
However I certainly "kind of respect" those JW's - because they factually do try to live up to their own teachings/believes. (at least the ones that I personally know).

That a believer "necessarily" needs to view upon the Bible and those other books differently, is totally understood, isn't it??

 

[Woodznutz]

Nope,

Evolution on earth aka the evolution of human mankind is backed by scientific and archaeological EVIDENCE (not some Belief) - which has already discounted (nullified) ALL statements printed in those self-written books. Starting off with those 7 days and Adam&Eve. (The very essence of your religion).

Creation by some God, is a pure religiously motivated and thus invented concept - propagated in and by those self-written books, and lacks any proof whatsoever, aka EVIDENCE. Therefore it is simply a religious based self-BELIEF, that also isn't based on any proven "observation".

When natural phenomenons couldn't be explained scientifically e.g. Lightning - people came up with some God hurling bolts of lightning. And the matter of day and night were believed to be due to some sun-god taking his nap. etc. etc.

The same goes for that falsely propagated global flood (Scientifically proven, that it never occurred when humans were around) - but "maybe" just a religious exploited result based on some 25,000+ years oral communicated story, trying to explain the disappearance of (nowadays termed Neanderthals) aka supposedly wiped out by God, and thus made place for today's humans, symbolized in that self-written book as being Noah and family.

However your religion doesn't "symbolize" but factually sells e.g. Noah and family as a supposed fact. And science can irrefutably explain and proof to you what happens if only a single family (+ one outsider) keeps "populating" amongst themselves for several generations. Not even to mention your Adam&Eve plus Cain issue.

Therefore if e.g. the antic Greek religion would have stood it's ground against Christianity - due to brutally suppressing, persecuting and thus brainwashing other religions and people for 1500+ years, and e.g. an Emperor Constantine not having converted, you would now propagate your BELIEF, that some Zeus (Jupiter) and his family rules on Mount Olympia and that the Titans created the straights of Gibraltar. After all that is just as well written and propagated in numerous books written by Greek, Mideastern and Roman scholars.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't try to propagate your religion and it's self-written books as being FACTS. That's all on my part.

Science is ever changing, with never an apology. News at eleven.

 

[Woodznutz]

Undoubtedly the Bible and those other books are exactly that.
Ever seen e.g. those Jehovah witnesses books - that those ADULTS pass to other Adults?
However I certainly "kind of respect" those JW's - because they factually do try to live up to their own teachings/believes. (at least the ones that I personally know).

That a believer "necessarily" needs to view upon the Bible and those other books differently, is totally understood, isn't it??

Most have different levels of understanding. I think this is true for scientists and religionists. For example, nowhere does the Bible say that the earth is 6000 years old, and nowhere does it say that a snake talked to Eve.

 

[onefour1]

Evolution is not a proven fact but only a theory that many science people have grabbed onto and still have no proof of it. Evolution is as much a religion as any other.

 

[Kruska]

Most have different levels of understanding. I think this is true for scientists and religionists. For example, nowhere does the Bible say that the earth is 6000 years old, and nowhere does it say that a snake talked to Eve.

You don't seem to be very steadfast with your Bible.

The genealogy of e.g, Moses dates and is recorded all the way back to Adam - it is your Bible that "informs " about Noah having gotten 900 years old and some others 200 -400 years old. Thus in reference to the Bibles own statements and records - Adam was created at around 4000 B.C.
And those who "questioned" e.g. Noah's or Moses age, were suppressed, prosecuted, excommunicated and burned on the stake.
Nowadays the "religious institutions" come up with - there must be gaps in the chronology !! ups, questioning their own propagated Bible?

However even if one fills out the "blanks" e.g. Noah maybe only got 80 years old - as such others must be filling the gap of the remaining 820 years - it wouldn't change the overall added timeline given in the Bible. Interesting though is the fact that these "religious institutes" still adhere to those fantasized "live-expectations" and simply claim (no proof whatsoever" that there were "unknown people" living before e.g. Noah. Resulting in statements (in order to level up with scientific research) such as - Adam and Eve lived around 125,000 B.C. - Wow kind a lot of people missing.

Therefore still persisting onto the "story", and thus propagating that incest on behalf of three people can "produce mankind".

IMO once a "believer" starts to pick out issues that happen to suit him, whilst ignoring all other issues (statements), or constantly coming up with "new explanations/interpretations", then that religion based on the Bible, becomes a farce.

Take Hinduism (never mind them believing that their main God has an Elephant-head) - they NEVER refuted or altered their original religious conviction aka preaching. They simply choose to believe into their own self-invented religion. And never even attempt to proof it against scientific and archeological facts.
Why? - Hinduism maintains that truth must be sought in multiple sources, not dogmatically proclaimed.

It is solely the Church, respectively the various religious institutions of these Desert religions that constantly "disapprove" of their own Books contents, e.g. Genesis. Simply due to having to face the fact that human civilization incl. it's arts (e.g. Lionman) already existed at around 40,000 B.C. (Thanks to constant scientific&archeological research). Furthermore the Bible was written in regards to issues pertaining solely to, or legends/myths known in the Middle-East - therefore those writers didn't have any clue whatsoever in regards to human developments outside of that area. E.g. Lionman in today's Germany.

Neither did they have any idea nor clue about e.g. Stonehenge or the flooding/submersion (not via weeks of rain) of e.g. Doggerland.

It took the Church until 1960? to even acquit towards the earth rotating around the sun and not the other way around.

In other words, the Bible is a work of fiction written entirely by humans, partially making use of other Middle-Eastern and Indus valley legend and myths, and therefore is logically in constant dispute and contradiction with its own propagated teachings.

That science and archeology logically come up constantly with new discoveries is understood - isn't it? So they need to "apologize" for what? Have scientists and archeologists ever suppressed, persecuted, brainwashed and burned "religious believers" at the stake?
Do they propagate that "present or previous knowledge" is valid forever?

You obviously even fail to understand the meaning of science - not to mention archeological FACTS.
In general, science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws.
And not sticking, adhering for ever "like fanatics" to the contradictory contents of some fiction books.

 

[Woodznutz]

You don't seem to be very steadfast with your Bible.

The genealogy of e.g, Moses dates and is recorded all the way back to Adam - it is your Bible that "informs " about Noah having gotten 900 years old and some others 200 -400 years old. Thus in reference to the Bibles own statements and records - Adam was created at around 4000 B.C.
And those who "questioned" e.g. Noah's or Moses age, were suppressed, prosecuted, excommunicated and burned on the stake.
Nowadays the "religious institutions" come up with - there must be gaps in the chronology !! ups, questioning their own propagated Bible?

However even if one fills out the "blanks" e.g. Noah maybe only got 80 years old - as such others must be filling the gap of the remaining 820 years - it wouldn't change the overall added timeline given in the Bible. Interesting though is the fact that these "religious institutes" still adhere to those fantasized "live-expectations" and simply claim (no proof whatsoever" that there were "unknown people" living before e.g. Noah. Resulting in statements (in order to level up with scientific research) such as - Adam and Eve lived around 125,000 B.C. - Wow kind a lot of people missing.

Therefore still persisting onto the "story", and thus propagating that incest on behalf of three people can "produce mankind".

IMO once a "believer" starts to pick out issues that happen to suit him, whilst ignoring all other issues (statements), or constantly coming up with "new explanations/interpretations", then that religion based on the Bible, becomes a farce.

Take Hinduism (never mind them believing that their main God has an Elephant-head) - they NEVER refuted or altered their original religious conviction aka preaching. They simply choose to believe into their own self-invented religion. And never even attempt to proof it against scientific and archeological facts.
Why? - Hinduism maintains that truth must be sought in multiple sources, not dogmatically proclaimed.

It is solely the Church, respectively the various religious institutions of these Desert religions that constantly "disapprove" of their own Books contents, e.g. Genesis. Simply due to having to face the fact that human civilization incl. it's arts (e.g. Lionman) already existed at around 40,000 B.C. (Thanks to constant scientific&archeological research). Furthermore the Bible was written in regards to issues pertaining solely to, or legends/myths known in the Middle-East - therefore those writers didn't have any clue whatsoever in regards to human developments outside of that area. E.g. Lionman in today's Germany.

Neither did they have any idea nor clue about e.g. Stonehenge or the flooding/submersion (not via weeks of rain) of e.g. Doggerland.

It took the Church until 1960? to even acquit towards the earth rotating around the sun and not the other way around.

In other words, the Bible is a work of fiction written entirely by humans, partially making use of other Middle-Eastern and Indus valley legend and myths, and therefore is logically in constant dispute and contradiction with its own propagated teachings.

That science and archeology logically come up constantly with new discoveries is understood - isn't it? So they need to "apologize" for what? Have scientists and archeologists ever suppressed, persecuted, brainwashed and burned "religious believers" at the stake?
Do they propagate that "present or previous knowledge" is valid forever?

You obviously even fail to understand the meaning of science - not to mention archeological FACTS.
In general, science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws.
And not sticking, adhering for ever "like fanatics" to the contradictory contents of some fiction books.

Many of us pursue knowledge of God's word as well. Not everything written there is understood. The Bible was inspired by God, written in languages that were then translated to others, including a few closely held beliefs of the translators, which were sometimes wrong.

Regarding the age of the earth, the chronology from Adam to the present day doesn't account for the obviously old age of the earth. Therefore, the Genesis creation story was mistranslated, but became an incontrovertible truth to 'young earth literalists' which is large chunk of the church. Just as science is ever changing so is the understanding of the Bible. The problem is that new Biblical truth is difficult to impossible for many believers to accept (the pagan origin of Easter for example), while new scientific revelations are generally accepted very quickly by the scientific community.

 

[Kruska]

...The Bible was inspired by God,....

There you go again - a plain and totally unsubstantiated assumption (claim), solely propagated by believers without a shred of evidence.

The Bible and those other books where solely written by humans and inspired solely by their own FANTASY. Later additionally and constantly manipulated by ALL these "believer factions" to suit their respective suppressive agendas.

You honestly believe, assuming that a God would exist - that he had nothing better to do then come up with this Adam&Eve nonsense???
The same guy who supposedly created the Universe with all it's known and unknown physics and laws ???

It's the same as propagating that a world renowned surgeon and doctor - told people that little babies are brought by the stork.

 

[sparky]

You cannot destroy energy .
Only convert into alternative forms .

An apparent inviolate Law of the Universe .

Maybe that's all we are donning the occasional meat suit?

~S~

 

[Woodznutz]

There you go again - a plain and totally unsubstantiated assumption (claim), solely propagated by believers without a shred of evidence.

The Bible and those other books where solely written by humans and inspired solely by their own FANTASY. Later additionally and constantly manipulated by ALL these "believer factions" to suit their respective suppressive agendas.

You honestly believe, assuming that a God would exist - that he had nothing better to do then come up with this Adam&Eve nonsense???
The same guy who supposedly created the Universe with all it's known and unknown physics and laws ???

It's the same as propagating that a world renowned surgeon and doctor - told people that little babies are brought by the stork.

God is working out a plan here below. Apparently, you're not in on it.

 

[Kruska]

God is working out a plan here below.

Only according to self-proclaimed religious folks (who never stick to their own 10 Commandments)

Apparently, you're not in on it.

Why should I be "into" fairy tales and kiddo stories??

But hey, do feel free to place your religious faith into whatever makes you feel good.

 

[Woodznutz]

Only according to self-proclaimed religious folks (who never stick to their own 10 Commandments)

Why should I be "into" fairy tales and kiddo stories??

But hey, do feel free to place your religious faith into whatever makes you feel good.

Thanks. I do.