Did The Great Flood Really Happen?

[Taz]

If god wants us to choose good, then why did he make evil as a choice? Seems rather dumb.

Actually God advised against gaining the knowledge of good and evil. Humans wanted to know both, and in my opinion, because most of us are confident that we will choose the good over the evil. We are learning it is not quite that easy, not every time. Choosing good over evil can often be a struggle. That can be compared to lifting weights or training for a marathon. While often difficult, the results are often worthwhile.

Lifting weights makes you freakish. Long distance running can lead to heart attacks, among other injuries... Showing you how good can be subjective.

So why did god make evil if he doesn't want anyone to choose it?

He didn't make evil, the fallen angels did. God gave man free will, so he could choose, as indicated by the premises of the Adam and Eve allegory.

And, we're still waiting for that empirical chain of evidence that proves evolution isn't just a cult fantasy invented by pseudo-intellectual halfwits with high self-esteem.

So god didn't make everything in the universe. But he did make the fallen angels, and let them fall. Or does god not having any control over his creation?

So if not by evolution, you think god just poofed humans to earth like a magician?

No evidence he created the angels or the heavenly choir or the cherubs, etc.

As for you last dumb question, there is no evidence humans didn't just 'poof' into existence; if there was then you could have produced it.

What's the evidence that god created humans?

 

[ding]

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard.

False.

Well that was easy.

When are you goobers going to learn that these lame ontological parlor tricks only work on dumb and lazy people?

You seem like a really happy and pleasant person.

And yu seem like a frustrated charlatan who cant seem to fool anyone but those who have already been fooled.

I'm cool with you believing that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals.

There isn't. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. There are only better and worse morals. And we can only do our best to argue for better morals and hope it compels others to agree. Morals dictated by magical fiat are not morals. They are orders. If you feel as though you have to do something "moral" because of fear of a magical sky daddy or fear that you wont won a magical prize for yourself, you are being amoral, not moral

 

[ding]

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work.

 

[ding]

Morals are based upon logic. Logic is not subjective. Logic is objective. Logic is independent of man. Therefore morals are independent of man.

 

[alang1216]

I sense a contradiction here. If everything God created is good, why aren't you all good?

According to Genesis, we also desired the knowledge of good and evil. Do you feel more people choose good over evil, or in your experience is the reverse truer?

I'm naive enough to believe most people choose good. Unfortunately, your 'good' may be my 'evil'. Sorry, don't believe in moral absolutes.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a logical reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the logical reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered.

Don't buy the 'For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard' line. What is the highest possible standard of fairness when it comes to taxation?

I don't need you to buy it. My obligation was satisfied when I presented it.

So you're not obliged to back up what you say? Got it. BTW, my real name is Michelle Obama.

I have backed it up. It was "backed up in the post where I explained how morals are effectively standards which exist for logical reasons. There is nothing further that needs to be said. If you don't want to believe it, that's your decision.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a logical reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the logical reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered.

Don't buy the "morals are effectively standards which exist for logical reasons" either, not that I expect you to care. If you did you'd answer my question "What is the highest possible standard of fairness when it comes to taxation?".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome.

In the sense of survival, it does. No, nature does not care if a species goes extinct. But selection does have a "preference", if measured by which species survive. Nature "prefers" that land animals have lungs. That's why fish with no lungs are not found thriving on land.

Nature "prefers" the spheroidal shape of massive objects. I can understand how this may be a hard concept to grasp for people who are so steeped in magical religious thought that they anthropomorphize things that don't deserve it. Such a person would mistakenly think i was suggesting some sort of intelligence.

 

[ding]

I sense a contradiction here. If everything God created is good, why aren't you all good?

According to Genesis, we also desired the knowledge of good and evil. Do you feel more people choose good over evil, or in your experience is the reverse truer?

I'm naive enough to believe most people choose good. Unfortunately, your 'good' may be my 'evil'. Sorry, don't believe in moral absolutes.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a logical reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the logical reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered.

Don't buy the 'For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard' line. What is the highest possible standard of fairness when it comes to taxation?

I don't need you to buy it. My obligation was satisfied when I presented it.

So you're not obliged to back up what you say? Got it. BTW, my real name is Michelle Obama.

I have backed it up. It was "backed up in the post where I explained how morals are effectively standards which exist for logical reasons. There is nothing further that needs to be said. If you don't want to believe it, that's your decision.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a logical reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the logical reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered.

Don't buy the "morals are effectively standards which exist for logical reasons" either, not that I expect you to care. If you did you'd answer my question "What is the highest possible standard of fairness when it comes to taxation?".

I care that you are making a mistake but it's your mistake to make. No doubt one day you will be arguing with someone who has wronged you and you will expect him to agree that your view should be universally accepted. But it's not my job to correct your errors.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, let's review and reset:

No, the great flood never happened. Yes, this Bible myth is fiction. Yes, we know this, as well as anything can be known. Yes, the Great Flood Bible myth is a mix of plagiarism and bastardization of earlier myths. No, none of the silly ideas presented in the myth are physically possible. No, it is not valuable moral allegory and, in fact, is a good example of the stunted, misguided morality of the ignorant, superstitious peoples that cobbled the myth together.

 

[ding]

The flood account in the Bible captured a historical event and the narrative around that event was allegorical. Which is to say embellished to make it more memorable so that it would be easier to remember and pass down which is how ancient man passed down important information, wisdom and history.

 

[ding]

The reason why other ancient cultures had an account of a great flood is that they all shared a common history/culture/heritage before the great migration from Mesopotamia which was also captured in a Biblical account. The Tower of Babel was an historical event. The narrative of that account was allegorical. Which is to say embellished to make it more memorable so that it would be easier to remember and pass down which is how ancient man passed down important information, wisdom and history.

 

[ding]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on us.

 

[BS Filter]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

Christians believe the Bible. There aren't many Christians who don't believe there was a great flood. There are many people who claim to be Christians, but aren't.

The Bible flood myth was borrowed from Sumer. These stories traveled long the trade routes

The Atrahasis, Akkadian/Babylonian epic of the Great Flood

Atrahasis/Atra-Hasis, is an eighteenth-century B.C.E. Akkadian epic, named after its human hero It contains a creation myth and an early flood account

matrixdisclosure.com

Educated Christians don't have difficulty with morality tales.

Jesus warned us about false Christians. Judgement Day we all will find out who the true believers are.

 

[surada]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on us.

The stories weren't written down until almost 900 years after the death of Moses.

Moses, Sargon and Sinhue were all found by pharaoh's daughter floating in a basket on the Nile. The story of Sinuhe an Egyptian physician is older than Moses..

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Jesus warned us about false Christians. Judgement Day we all will find out who the true believers are.

Yeah, or not. This is iron age mythical nonsense.

 

[ding]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on us.

The stories weren't written down until almost 900 years after the death of Moses.

Moses, Sargon and Sinhue were all found by pharaoh's daughter floating in a basket on the Nile. The story of Sinuhe an Egyptian physician is older than Moses..

But were recorded as symbols in the Chinese language 4,500 years ago. So clearly the accounts were not "written" by Moses.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The stories weren't written down until almost 900 years after the death of Moses.

Which makes sense, in an ancient world where nearly everyone was an illiterate, superstitious, terrified peasant.

 

[westwall]

This isnt speaking about the Great Flood of Noah's day, but it proves there is enough water locked up in the earth's mantle that the land masses can be submerged, AND WERE

Earth was a water world

Earth was a water world till plate tectonics created the continents that we live on. It can not be a water world again until plate tectonics is stopped, and erosion grinds the continents back down.

 

[surada]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on us.

The stories weren't written down until almost 900 years after the death of Moses.

Moses, Sargon and Sinhue were all found by pharaoh's daughter floating in a basket on the Nile. The story of Sinuhe an Egyptian physician is older than Moses..

But were recorded as symbols in the Chinese language 4,500 years ago. So clearly the accounts were not "written" by Moses.

The great migration out of Mesopotamia is a myth. Baalbek and Byblos are older.. so are the Marsh Arabs.

 

[ding]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on us.

The stories weren't written down until almost 900 years after the death of Moses.

Moses, Sargon and Sinhue were all found by pharaoh's daughter floating in a basket on the Nile. The story of Sinuhe an Egyptian physician is older than Moses..

But were recorded as symbols in the Chinese language 4,500 years ago. So clearly the accounts were not "written" by Moses.

The great migration out of Mesopotamia is a myth. Baalbek and Byblos are older.. so are the Marsh Arabs.

How does that disprove there was no migration fro Mesopotamia?

Sino-Babylonianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Ancient China - Adventism in China

This is a Wiki site for the History of Adventism in China

www.adventisminchina.org